[Closed] MTB advocacy?

Being a resident of Sheffield, I can only say it's something for the good. Ride Sheffield have helped facilitate the creation of, and maintenance of great trails. And let's not forget their role in the Steel City Downhill, which was sadly missed this year.

I also don't think there's anything wrong with a bit of trail policing, either. Things can be taken away from us very easily if folk aren't respectful of other users.

If we want greater access, we need an organised campaign, be it at local or national level. Not just to "campaign" but to coordinate with groups representing other interested parties.

To get that greater access, we need to show the responsibility that comes with the rights. Education and training is part of that, focusing on Rule 1. I'm sure landowners and other groups will do the trail policing bit as well anyway

Tough question. It's a bit like policing by consent or preaching to the converted. Those you'll reach and who will listen are not likely to be the bigger part of the problem.

There's a default idea that (insert activity) is good, I'm duty bound to encourage more people to do it. No one ever stops to consider the possibility that (insert activity) might be at capacity.

When I started mountain biking, the outdoors wasn't trendy. The kids that did DoE were geeky. You either found your way into mountain biking with an random bike and an OS map or were shown, one on one, by a friend who got into it with a random bike and an OS map. Magazines had articles that included how to behave in the countryside. I remember a cartoon in mbuk with a squirrel grabbing a guy but the collar for skidding and promising him a hazelnut splatter paint job if he didn't stop it.

There's none of that these days. It's promoted by companies who have little interest beyond that years profit statement.

The surrounding media is all shouty, roosty BS that might look good but isn't how people should be riding in shared spaces.

Maybe I'm old and grumpy but I don't think mountain bikings boom in popularity has actually done it any real favours.

Maybe that's a reason why advocacy is needed. Maybe the proportions of problem to solution are why I question the effectiveness.

There is a really good pastcast on downtimepostcast with the trash free trails guy and how he helps persuade people. Riding courteously needs a similar approach. Well worth a listen.

Its difficult because if you are coming into mtb from riding some purpose built trails or some trail in a local wood with little walking activity and are not experienced with outdoor activities more widely then you're may not have even though about the problems of shared paths or skidding excessively in many natural trails that are in more sensitive environments.

ts difficult because if you are coming into mtb from riding some purpose built trails or some trail in a local wood with little walking activity and are not experienced with outdoor activities more widely then you’re may not have even though about the problems of shared paths

Yeah, agreed, lots of peoples first 'proper' MTB experience is trail centres where there is very little chance of walkers etc, that's a very valid point. No sure about your skidding point.

Absolutely 100% what @Onzadog said...I'm in the same boat and I'm aware my thinking is considered poor as I berate skidding as it just isn't needed. The youngsters think it looks cool, but I see plenty of the older mountain bikers wincing every time they see it.

Obviously different opinions and thinking to those that went through it at the start to those who arrived here over the last 5 years, some seem happy to have a chat and will listen whilst others have no interest - I got barked at by a teenager for asking him not to skid - 'It's a mountain bike trail, it is meant for skidding!' came the reply...don't think that is ever taught or preached, but certainly going by the amount of skidding in the media, it does appear to be the way to get round things or actually stop your bike.

Edit @Nobeerinthefridge

I am not saying all skidding is a hanus crime on all trails but in some natural areas (and even situations e.g. groups of walkers can find it shocking or intimidating if they're not expecting it, particularly from behind) it is good practice to minimise.

Interesting thread and responses.

Personally, I'd prefer to focus on positive advocacy opportunities rather than trying to stop kids doing skids - though I'd not deny there's a place for rider education and even an appetite for it within the community.

On another note, can I do a slight hijack and ask why people are not involved in MTB advocacy themselves?

Lack of opportunities?
Feel existing groups not represent you?
No time?
Just don't know how?
Prefer to keep it all under the radar?

I have no idea how I could get involved where I live. If I lived in South Wales yeah but east Dorset? It more bimble town here so more family biking

@chakaping for me it's a lack of time.  I did a few dig days with Ride Sheffield, and still would if one happened ar a convenient time. My working pattern is not totally fixed, with a reasonable amount of evening and weekend work.

I already am involved, but there is always more that could be done. I think it is great that more people are getting involved in mountain biking, I just hoped that the not-interested-or-bothered attitude of newer riders wasn't so rife - it isn't even just youngsters, seems to be the way of riders now that trail erosion means nothing to them (been told on a few occasions that 'someone' will fix it if it gets bad - on natural trails and trail centres. When asked if that someone would be them, they look bemused and tell me it wouldn't be them as they just ride the trails).

There are people out there who are willing to lend a hand - the trailbuilding I'm involved in does see people stopping whilst on a ride and lending a hand - it is excellent, helpful and appreciated, but the numbers are low.

It seems to reflect the wider culture we now seem to have - instant gratification...hopefully that will change from the large number to a much lower number soon.

Sorry, now rambling on...

I did stuff back in the day. Persuaded BBNP to adopt a MTB friendly policy and then wrote the doc for them. Sat on the Welsh National Access Forum for years until Cycling UK got sticky about paying for fuel to get there [let alone paying me to attend, heaven forbid]. Sat on BBNP's Local Access forum for a few years too. Invented the Trans Cambrian Way and then joined IMBA to hide behind so that Powys couldn't find out it was me {and latterly a couple of friends}. I still pretend to represent IMBA UK at Powys meetings. They haven't worked out that IMBA UK no longer exists, never discovered the TCW either. I did four years at Powys Highways and got 100k of ORPA routes back on their maps and sent to OS. That took a three year campaign before they admitted failings and offered me the job. This enraged the head of the Countryside dept and later I was banned from doing statistical surveys and lost quite a lot of contracts.
There simply isn't an overarching organisation for MTB in all it's disciplines. Both BC and CTC dropped the ball. They were both utterly useless on offroad advocacy, allotted no full time staff to do it.
All this stuff is done by volunteers spending their own time and money with no support from anyone.

On balance I think it's a good thing. I'm involved with the local advocacy group (Ride Kirklees) and there have been some really positive outcomes including the development of a new trail at Oakwell Hall.

Recently the group was approached by the council as a local area of woodland had seen some problems. Most of these issues were due to the higher volume of users over lockdown, but there had also been some over enthusiastic building from the local young diggers. Fortunately the existence of Ride Kirklees, and a forward thinking council, has meant that rather than flattening these new trails, they have just been tweaked a bit to make them safer.

By having an organised group that the council can contact, and who have experience with putting together proposals, there is an opportunity to save areas which might otherwise be at risk. The flip side of this is that councils don't generally like too much risk, so trails could sometimes become a bit sanitised.

There are a couple of local trail builders who have crafted some excellent, technical lines. While they are currently low-key and there hasn't yet been any conflict, in other areas similar trails are soon found by the masses when they are shown on strava, instagram etc. Once the popularity increases, trails which were tolerated by landowners start to become problematic. IMO it is at this point where advocacy groups can really be of benefit and in many cases means these trails are not lost.

Yeh in my day it was just about rights of way. The bikes weren't up to much technical stuff until about 15 yeas ago, which is roughly when I ceased.
Daffyd Davis had pretty much invented built forest trails but it was still in it's infancy. He got an MBE for that but the hierarchy didn't much like what he'd accomplished and it took the Welsh Government forcing FC's hand that more welsh centres after Coed Y Brenin got built. To add insult to injury Sian Roberts got given credit for this in the recent documentary. She did little more than run the cafe.....