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Not enough people will voluntarily make a change in their lifestyles for it to affect the climate. We need the governments world wide to enforce the change.
Agree on the hypocrisy point, though if we need to be forced to change we're properly screwed. Because some will be forced, others (inc profitable but businesses) are able to skip the rules.
Since doing a lot more road riding its made me realise how wasteful MTB can be, and how much time I spent travelling to/from riding. Despite living on the edge of the peak...
I now do
Far more riding from home (probably 99% of rides)
Far less maintenance and have less inclination to upgrade
Far less replacement of worn out bits
Much less mileage in my van
Far more mileage on my legs!
Not suggesting everyone takes up road cycling, but it was an eye opener for me (and I'm enjoying it just at much shhhhhhhhh....)
OP I can’t help thinking that you are perhaps a perfect individual case study for your own work.
If anyone can calculate the environmental impact of their hobby then it’s you, So do it. Figure out what your MTB related activities and purchases have done to the environment over the last year and look for opportunities to reduce that over the next twelve months and then write it up and publish it!
You seem to be looking for “total solutions”, like sacking the whole thing off, where what can at least kick start some wider change is quantifying the current situation and then looking for an improvement of at least, I dunno 50%?
That's a good point, I'm certainly not in a bad position to be able to do some sort of lifecycle analysis of mtb, with a few different scenarios, to find out, say, how an average mtb rider's impact is split between travel, new kit, and maintenance.
A study like that'd give some interesting answers, but their general thread is obvious: ride local, buy durable and simple stuff, don't get new stuff every time something novel comes along just because its novel.
Basically what a lot of people have said above -- so obviously quite a people already make their mtb follow broadly those principles. I don't want to blow my own horn, but I'm just about one of them. I very, very rarely drive to trails nowadays (probably once a month), ride from the doorstep 3 or 4 times a week and catch a train for a ride a couple of times a month. Aside from wear and tear parts, 95% of what I buy is second hand.
But I still have a car, I buy more new stuff than I'd like, and when I was with my ex I drove to ride a lot more, so my lack of driving nowadays is at best only half down to my own 'virtuous' nature, i.e. not much to be proud of. I could do a fair bit more.
So to me, the question is: what broader changes in cycling culture, business models, trail design, etc. could make lower impact riding more appealable?
I don't think it's the sort of thing that can be done one individual at a time.
Cut back on trips with bike in car, stop going on flights, have less children and buy second hand more. Plant some trees to offset the damage done, stop worrying so much and enjoy your life sensibly. Doing anything drastic on an individual level is too little too late. At this point I think such action would only be to ease your own conscience unfortunately.
So to me, the question is: what broader changes in cycling culture, business models, trail design, etc. could make lower impact riding more appealable?
Someone earlier posted about the environmental impact of building trails (is at trail centres). So you have the quarrying of stone, transport of stone (no idea whether stone is sourced locally at trail centres, but you'd imagine that in Wales, Lakes etc, it would/should be), the heavy machinery to build and maintain the trails. When you add in the fact that most trail centres are in fairly remote areas and not close to good public transport hubs, the overall carbon footprint is probably quite large.
Presumably greener methods of construction could be implemented? Trees planted to offset the carbon used?
New trail centres could be located closer to / in urban areas ... Leeds bike park is a good example ... But that has limitations too as a 6km loop and a jump line is going to get boring quickly compared to several 10/20/30km loops at a Forestry Commission trail centre.
So it's partly about a public transport option. But it's also about facilities when you're there. If you're travelling several hours to Wales, Lakes, Scotland etc, and certainly if you're staying over, it's difficult without a car ... You need changes of kit, maybe camping and cooking gear, non-riding wear, tools and spares etc. So to make travelling by public transport to trail centres viable, there needs to be better facilities on site / close by ... cheap accommodation, bike storage, ready set-up campsites, repair workshops, places to eat, and transport laid on from the nearest station.
It's a lot of infrastructure change for both the provider and the punter ... and that's without even starting to think about the public transport infrastructure, capacity on trains etc etc.
Since doing a lot more road riding its made me realise how wasteful MTB can be, and how much time I spent travelling to/from riding. Despite living on the edge of the peak…
I now do
Far more riding from home (probably 99% of rides)
Far less maintenance and have less inclination to upgrade
Far less replacement of worn out bits
Much less mileage in my van
Far more mileage on my legs!Not suggesting everyone takes up road cycling, but it was an eye opener for me (and I’m enjoying it just at much shhhhhhhhh….)
Quite. Being able to go mountain biking isn't some human right, the way some folk on here seem to suggest. If you live somewhere that mountain biking isn't environmentally sustainable, and this concerns you, then either move, or find a different hobby.
That doesn't seem like the most constructive approach to a sport we all enjoy and which encourages healthy lifestyles and appreciation of the beauty of nature, which in turn is likely to lead to more people with an active interest in preserving the environment.
Despite my honest appraisal of the machinery used to build mountain bike trails, think for a moment how this compares to the construction and maintenance of the road network...
On a larger scale, how does 1 day of the global impact of MTBing compare to:
1 day of traffic on the M25
or
1 day of the combined impact of the City of London and Canary Wharf, from construction of the buildings, to transport and housing, feeding and clothing all those employed, to rubbish collection and disposal, lighting, running of office equipment, telecommunications and servers along with air conditioning/heating
it may be that there's room for improvement all round...
Everyone gets a set amount and if you go over your allocated budget you can buy more credit (obvs at a cost) or incur much higher costs
Hows that?
So rich people get to do whatever they like becausr they can afford to buy as many carbon credits as they want. Sounds about right 🙁
So as much as it’s a fatalistic thing to say, I wouldn’t worry too much. The planet will call time on us when it needs to that’s certain.
Mtbing has no measurable affect on the environment. Live your life don't be a dick and enjoy yourself. Everything will end one day whatever we do !!!
Buying lot's of shiny bike parts from all over the world will help to save the planet.
It helps the global economy, which will help decrease global poverty, which will increase education which will slow the population growth. Phew, everyone wins!
Question for you eco types - do you really envisage any of this working?
Let's take one specific example - air travel. Now let's just say we all stop travelling by air, or at least we make a sizeable reduction in air travel. How do you think this will affect the economies of countries heavily reliant on tourism? Greece would be an obvious European example, but many developing countries are even more precarious. I suspect that if the aims of, say, the Green Party (and equivalents in other developed countries) were met on air travel we'd be looking at a large number of these tourism-reliant countries becoming failed states.
There are multifarious other examples like this, yet, whenever I've raised this point I've never received an adequate response.
I'm not just making a rhetorical point here; I'm actually interested to hear how issues like these could be addressed, because, at the moment I see only over simplification and calls for abstinence (bit like religion, then).
JP
First, and sorry for the slight digression, I think it's not helpful to refer to eco-types.
The range of perspectives that environmentally inclined people hold is so vast, everything from the hugely optimistic ecomodernists who want an economically wealthy sci-fi world of urbanisation and nuclear power but with as much of nature spared from any human impacts as possible, to the deep ecologists, some of whom see humans much the same way that Agent Smith in the matrix does (i.e. basically a virus).
So the answers you'll get to that particular question of flights will vary accordingly.
The thought that pops into my head is that any tourism-dependent places that would suffer from aviation cut backs would be in just as shit a situation if there was another financial crash that left people without enough money to take a decent holiday. Which will certainly happen at some point. So I'd say there are underlying issues there that need addressing, irrespective of climate change. I'm not the person to say how though, there are people much better informed than me.
More broadly, my personal opinion is that: no I find it hard to imagine any of this working out as well as it really needs to do to avoid massive loss of life, human and otherwise. I'm going to try to help as well as I can without completely ****ing my own life up though. I don't have a great deal else more important to do tbh!
Middle class guilt isn't going to solve climate change!
I’m going to try to help as well as I can without completely ****ing my own life up though.
I think this is all we can do, perhaps also try to apply some pressure or influence over practices that continue to be wasteful. Change your buying habits, etc.
what broader changes in cycling culture, business models, trail design, etc. could make lower impact riding more appealable?
Supply logistics. EG, you buy a 'sustainable' steel frameset. The Reynolds tubes may be made in the UK, shipped to Taiwan for assembly into a frame, frames are shipped back. That seems bonkers to me now. It's just steel, with all respect to Reynolds' great product. Buy a frame made from materials made closer to the place the frame is made. Buy a UK-made 853 frame - look how good that Eighteen bikes frame in FGF is for the £. Or, buy a TW cr-mo bike from Taiwan. Small difference but our buying habits are our capitalist votes and it counts in the mid to longer term.
And I'd like to see the bike industry celebrate simpler riding - riding is simply enjoyable so why does it need a trip to Les Gets or Whistler on a 4k bike to be at a level that's seen as interesting or impressive to a marketing dept? Naturally we all want to be seen as successful or making the most of life, to ourselves and others. So why is some of the most satisfying riding I do (about to head out now at 5.50am, a local 2hr loop early on a nice morning, plain old woodland singletrack) so unmarketable? On face value it's pretty basic stuff and it's hard to get across how good it is in an advert or snapshot. But as 'lifestyle' riding goes it's become far more valuable to me than the 'load up and hit that destination' riding I used to do. It's low product impact, the bike I use for this riding has had no more than chains, rings and tyres plus a few bearings in 8 years now. If I rode for kicks I'd struggle with it but that was my riding 20 years ago. Now I ride for being outside, flow, exercise, opportunism and escapism etc. Travel to ride kills off a lot of that.
I agree with the cycling hobby / sport / daily transport comments. My daily transport bike is a £250 Vitus SS that I've had for years & only needed to change the break pads. My sport bike gets things replaced before they fail & is higher maintainance in terms of oils etc.
I've just built another bike (2nd hand) & the amount of packages coming through the door (both new & old stuff) is embarrassing!
I ride from the doorstep for 99% of my rides.
I do wonder if we tried the "doorstep" approach to more aspects of our lives if we'd enrich our locales more with what we'd like to be around. Why drive 10 miles for a coffee???
My guilt is buying online as it's cheaper & I have more choice as it then adds to a single item delivery which can't be good.
We're waking up, slowly, becoming aware, but our greed may be the planets downfall.
You don’t have to ride new places, you can enjoy your local trails, ride them better, appreciate the way they change with weather and light and direction.
This. Most of our riding's from the door and the odd time we drive it's for a local race (few times a year) or the car's out and we're up that way anyway so we might as well hit up Choppers for some skids and/or wheelies.
The more often you ride your local stuff- and it doesn't have to be exclusively off road, you can have just as much fun arsing about on stairs and walls and stuff - the more lines you'll see that you can ride. This brings the type of bike you ride into question though. I think there's more fun to be squeezed from a rigid or HT on smaller local stuff.
@legometeorology, was thinking about this on a ride this am, what sort of overall consumption goes into producing goods, eg an average car vs an average bike? When we look at a product that has a lot of complex parts, shaping and tooling do we see the see manufacturing energy costs? Any perspective on this?
I wonder where the CO2 output tipping point is between buying a new eco-friendly car that's cost (? just googled, not sure how valid) 120,000 to 170,000 megajoules energy or 750-1250 gallons of petrol to make vs running an older car that puts out a bit more CO2. And making the tooling that makes the car may add to that.
Cars may be the worst in terms of energy cost, lifespan and churn rate but I wonder where the E-MTB FS bike sits on that scale. There's suggestions of a basic bike (ie a £350 hybrid) costing ~500lbs of CO2 to make. A FS bike could be 2x that based on frame and parts complexity. 5x that for an E-FS maybe? Not sure - battery could cost much more. So possibly 1000lbs to 2,500lbs for some higher-end MTBs.
A car can be 15,000 to 25,000lbs, based on those MJ figures and general figures of a gallon of petrol giving off ~10lbs of CO2.
So very quick and roughly with conversions and assumptions along the way, a mountain bike may be 1/10th of a car in terms of manufacturing CO2 cost. I would have thought it would be less.
Why drive 10 miles for a coffee???
No-one actually does this... do they?
And I’d like to see the bike industry celebrate simpler riding – riding is simply enjoyable so why does it need a trip to Les Gets or Whistler on a 4k bike to be at a level that’s seen as interesting or impressive to a marketing dept?
This would be a very good start. I can imagine a pretty attractive marketing campaign could be made around a nice simple rigid or hardtail bike just called 'The Local' or something a bit catchier. You could easily have some little trailer where a rider blasts along a road jammed with cars, one could even have a bike rack full of enduro machines, and then dashes down some little ginnal into the woods and off to the moors or wherever.
This isn't an option for everyone of course, but a good thing to encourage where it is.
That old dirt cheap Pinnacle Ramin One was a good example actually. The Ramin Plus would do to, but I guess it was aimed at bikepacking.
but our greed may be the planets downfall.
The Planet will be here long after we are gone. As will life. The Planet has got another few billion years to support life. We've been around for 200,000.
It's pretty arrogant to assume we'll be top dogs forever! There's already been 5 major extinction events, "the Planet" will be fine!
I'm not saying we shouldn't try btw, but our game is to maintain the status quo for as long as possible. If there's any chance of that happening, it's only going to happen at governmental levels, individual choice is all well and good, but there's fundamental changes that needs to happen, cause well, consumerism isn't going to go anywhere, so instead of saying lets cut this that and that, we need to figure out how to make it all sustainable, which needs more fundamental systemic worldwide changes.
Doable imo, really just needs there willingness to do it, which ultimately means, soon as it's profitable....it'll happen. (either that or it'll happen through necessity, we do like brinkmanship!)
@legometeorology I've been following this thread with interest, as it seems we've been thinking roughly about similar things. I'm a complete sucker for trawling all the notable cycling sites and often getting pulled down into the shiny-stuff rabbit hole. My saving grace from all that is just being skint- I have to make stuff last and just can't afford new gear all the time.
I'm lucky though, that Dover is such a good place for MTB, that the need to drive anywhere further away rarely raises itself.
A great part of it all, I think is the aforementioned interwebz and magazines, STW included.
Sites like The Radavist and PathLessPedalled do showcase more of the sustainable side of MTB as well as the latest and greatest, but rarely outside of the US. I have been thinking that there is an opportunity for a UK equivalent, focussing on "boring" riding. Think RSF, Bikepacking.com, The Radavist, bimbling, Bicycle Quarterly etc. But all in one place and actually made to look as good as the glossy, rad stuff. It doesn't have to be necessarily over-worthy and hair-shirt, just make it look as good as it feels. Any takers?
Someone earlier posted about the environmental impact of building trails (is at trail centres). So you have the quarrying of stone, transport of stone (no idea whether stone is sourced locally at trail centres, but you’d imagine that in Wales, Lakes etc, it would/should be), the heavy machinery to build and maintain the trails.
I always wonder about this when people get upset about erosion out on the hills. The option of putting in hardcore/gravel (massively sanitising a trail) is very temporary and involves a lot of energy and a massive hole in the ground elsewhere. IT particularly upsets me when it's already eroded down to the bedrock.
I'd like to think we're reasonably conscious as a couple to do our bit & try to cut down waste, plastic use, buy local & reduce consumerism. There is an element of hypocrisy however, as we are going to Canada this summer to ride our bikes, and then to Italy later in the year to do the same.
Taking it back a level, to 'riding local' given the sort of riding I enjoy, it doesn't really exist & it probably does make sense to move somewhere better. We get through a reasonable amount of kit, as we ride, and race a lot, so things wear out, get broken and replaced.
That said, to be honest the 'hobby cyclist' with disposable income who spends a chunk of cash on their thing each year to me isn't really the issue at this stage, it's a raindrop in a lake compared to the hundreds of millions of tonnes of plastic waste we produce every year for example.
We will probably be hit by an asteroid before we totally wreck this place. I'm sure the plastic will survive though.
I have been thinking that there is an opportunity for a UK equivalent, focussing on “boring” riding. Think RSF, Bikepacking.com, The Radavist, bimbling, Bicycle Quarterly etc. But all in one place and actually made to look as good as the glossy, rad stuff. It doesn’t have to be necessarily over-worthy and hair-shirt, just make it look as good as it feels. Any takers?
Definitely, but please don't require it to have yet [i]another[/i] type of bike.
I think a big part of this is that MTBing has morphed over the years from primarily being "off-road adventure" (as I remember it from my youth) to providing condensed weekend Thrills and spill, primarily at specific venues (trail centres) this is a product of social conditions, people are now more "time poor" than they used to be, and the media portrayal of MTBing... But of course the catchall phrase MTBing covers an awful lot of different things now.
I find it interesting that "bikepacking" has become an increasingly popular subset of MTBing in recent years, along with the rise of the Gravel bike... As mentioned above riding further, from your door seems like an obvious solution, but then we come back to the whole 'time poor' element of things...
The truth is you will never make any form of cycling a zero carbon activity, but I do think quantifying just how high/low the environmental impact of the different subsets of bike riding are/can be has much wider value.
I also think a bit of personal experimentation to see if you can do some conventionally 'high carbon' activities with a minimised environmental cost. like hitting a trail centre.
Example: jump on the motorway to BPW and then sit in a diesel guzzling uplift truck for 8 hours of runs Vs train it to Merthyr Tydfil, and then ~30min pedal to the venue, pedal up pass for the day? the likely trade-off there is time and convenience, you may well end up having to camp locally or book a premier inn? perhaps turning a day's riding at BPW into a bit more of an adventure...
That old dirt cheap Pinnacle Ramin One was a good example actually. The Ramin Plus would do to, but I guess it was aimed at bikepacking.
Thanks - exactly what it was meant to do. Both just aimed at simple, fun riding. Neither were volume sellers though, that may be a reflection of the Evans customer and it's low key looks, lower showroom appeal vs more featured and loudly marketed bikes/brands. ie, the old what the industry offers <--> what the customer buys point and why things are slow, or at least not easy, to change.
Truth is, it's difficult to market anything subtle and nuanced eg 'make touring appealing' vs the big-impact stuff of Enduro or Red Bull.
@kayla1 Ha! No, that's the beauty of it- it should be all about NOT requiring a new type of bike.
Articles on bodgery, what-works-with-what etc.
Doable imo, really just needs there willingness to do it, which ultimately means, soon as it’s profitable….it’ll happen.
Call me a doom-monger .. but like smoking despite knowing the risks, this is all too far in the future for most of us to be acting now. When it's serious enough to act it's too late. It won't be profitable to act because profitable is doing things the cheap dirty shortcut way. What'll happen is fewer and fewer people will have comfortable wealthy western lifestyles (that will need greater protection). The average 'wealth' level will drop globally as population grows vs space and resources.
'The Age of Stupid' is over a decade old and nothing has changed. What did any of us do 10 years ago to take steps to reduce our impact?
So, yeah. Fun on a simple bike locally is good. Helps me cope in a world that seems totally nuts : )
I think having a local "scene" is what make riding possible for many. Even if the topology is not favourable you can build fun trails.( See swinley in the mountains of Berkshire.) But if there is nowhere to build or no one to build with people don't ride locally.
I live on Hampshire Dorset boarder and some people have put great effort in to making a blue run but it has been made so blue it's actively avoiding what little topology there is here. Don't get me wrong some people have obviously put effort in to talking to the right people but it's so sanitised it just becomes used by families with tag alongs. Not that there is anything wrong with families using a trail but it shows its level of challenge even on a rigid single speed. Because this is of no interest and other land is out of bounds I don't ride from the doorstep.
We will probably be hit by an asteroid before we totally wreck this place.
Asteroids only 100m across (big but won't wipe out more than a town) - every 5,000 years on average. Really big ones but still not guaranteed extinction-level (unless we're struggling already) - every 500,000 years or more.
To some degree I almost see it the opposite way, i.e. shouldn't people being more time poor be a perfect incentive for doorstep riding? It means a 1-2hr window becomes enough for a blast.
Again, I'm lucky, but some of my best rides are those two hour doorstep blasts in the evening, when you don't need a map, only need minimal tools, and outside weekends I can easily avoid anything resembling a crowd.
@legometeorology, was thinking about this on a ride this am, what sort of overall consumption goes into producing goods, eg an average car vs an average bike? When we look at a product that has a lot of complex parts, shaping and tooling do we see the see manufacturing energy costs? Any perspective on this?
Unfortunately I tend to look at things from a fairly macro perspective (like say the carbon footprint of a city or whole nation), so details like this escape me. I'm one of those academics who runs out of answers when we get to practical everyday questions 🙂
Thanks – exactly what it was meant to do. Both just aimed at simple, fun riding. Neither were volume sellers though, that may be a reflection of the Evans customer and it’s low key looks, lower showroom appeal vs more featured and loudly marketed bikes/brands.
Shame. From my own perspective, there should be a real hook there somewhere. Do you think Pinnacle will try something like that again?
If there's one promising idea I'm getting from this thread it's the potential for some-sort of movement to make local riding something special, not just something you do when you've no time for something better. I guess there could be scope for some sort of arty but informative blog-style site with routes starting within or on the edge of major UK cities, some high quality media, musing on simple bikes that still embrace genuinely awesome modern tech like droppers, some public transport info for more adventurous rides that are well served by trains...
If there’s one promising idea I’m getting from this thread it’s the potential for some-sort of movement to make local riding something special, not just something you do when you’ve no time for something better. I guess there could be scope for some sort of arty but informative blog-style site with routes starting within or on the edge of major UK cities, some high quality media, musing on simple bikes that still embrace genuinely awesome modern tech like droppers, some public transport info for more adventurous rides that are well served by trains…
My thoughts exactly, but rather than a wordpress style blog, I think something closer to Bikepacking.com or TheRadavist where there's regular updates, different subsections and archives. I'm afraid though, that would probably be a full time job in itself.
Any ideas for a name?
its a very interesting subject. Like everything, most people will have their own agenda/thoughts/ideas. I feel very aware of the global situation and as futile as it sometimes feels, I try and do my bit with regards to single use plastics, recycling etc etc.
But like everyone, I am a hypocrite. My recycling bin is stacked full, I avoid plastics.... yet my bike is made from carbon and I drive around in a fossil fuel burning Civic Type-R hot hatch.
I think one of the problems is how we now live our lives and are accustomed to certain 'ways of life'. Not leaving home to do the weekly shopping, relying on the internet, wanting the latest and greatest items etc etc. Which in turn reflects in how we ride our bikes and where we ride them.
You have spent 6k on a shiny new bike, why on earth would you not want to send the gnar on it. For many its not possible to do that locally, so a trip is the only way. Then kicks in the selfish human nature that is now the norm. Why use public transport that is less convenient when you can jump in your SUV and drive to the trails.
I have some very tame, but fun enough local riding to me. But equally I will drive to Surrey Hills or QECP for something a touch more lively. Would I still go to these places if I had better riding on my door step.... yes, but a lot less often.
How do I get better riding on my doorstep... short of the suggested idea of moving, its not possible (or I move closer to good trails, but my commute to work becomes longer, in a car). So maybe the solution is to allow people to build trails on local land. But we all know how impossible this is. So its a catch 22.
People can definitely do more to preserve the world we live in or to help slow down the rot, but much of the time they don't want to, as its up to the 'government or superpowers' to force us to make the change. Heaven forbid we should do our own bit.
Just for reference I have given up eating crisps in an effort to reduce the unrecyclable waste I produce. It might not sound like much, but by god, do I love a crisp!
Have you got kids? If not, rejoice in the fact that you’re doing the most environmentally friendly thing possible by not breeding more consumers.
Always love this when it gets rolled out. It’s likely to be the younger generations that will try and sort out all the things mine and previous generations have royally ****ed up.
I’ve recently gone to one bike and a rigid at that. It’s a compromise on some fronts, but bloody great fun and great as an all rounder.
My thoughts exactly
Yep, in fact I realise my post now reads like I stole your ideas 🙂
Shame, I've not got the time or expertise to put into something like that, but I love the idea. I'll at least spend sometime thinking up a name.
jameso
Subscriber
Doable imo, really just needs there willingness to do it, which ultimately means, soon as it’s profitable….it’ll happen.Call me a doom-monger .. but like smoking despite knowing the risks, this is all too far in the future for most of us to be acting now. When it’s serious enough to act it’s too late. It won’t be profitable to act because profitable is doing things the cheap dirty shortcut way. What’ll happen is fewer and fewer people will have comfortable wealthy western lifestyles (that will need greater protection). The average ‘wealth’ level will drop globally as population grows vs space and resources.
‘The Age of Stupid’ is over a decade old and nothing has changed. What did any of us do 10 years ago to take steps to reduce our impact?
So, yeah. Fun on a simple bike locally is good. Helps me cope in a world that seems totally nuts : )
tbh, overall, uk emissions have been on a downward trend since 1990, down 44% total emissions, and 39% on C02 emission, so in general that is pretty decent. the trend is looking good, almost halved emissioned in under 30 years. So project that forward and the future is looking good from a uk only perspective.
Problem is the rest of the world, while it continues to develop and expand things will continue to rise over all. So it's just a waiting game.
In general the EU looks like it's stabilized and heading towards as downtrend, as is the US, I'd say both will be on a downward trend over the next 50 years.
But as the rest of the world develops, not really much we can say to them, given how much we personally used in the passed. So it's a cases of waiting to see how, the likes of China and India, basically Asia in general develops over the next 50 years I guess. I'd think the Asians are well placed to inovate and times goes on too.
So, aye as mentioned, I do agree there's very much a game of brinkmanship going on. I don't think it's completely unachieveable. "The West" seems to be on course to a downtrend(although don't think we can quite say that yet), and it's a case of lets see how Asia develops is really what it looks like to my layman eyes...
It's too early to be overly pessimistic yet imo..
Worth checking out the consumption-based stats too, put together by a women in my office:
The UK doesn't come across quite a well from that perspective.
I’ve been saying this fine years, but I do think one of the best things for the planet would be to ban football. Seriously!
Every weekend for 9 months a year, hundreds of thousands of people in the UK alone travelling the length and breadth of the country, just to watch a football match. Not to mention, every mum and dad driving to local football matches. I passed by the local kids club training last night and the were 20-30 cars waiting on their little ones.
Multiply this across Europe and I think mtb’ers driving once a month to a trail centre is a drop in the ocean.
Actually, going back a few posts, I've recently found using Trailforks has really opened up the riding potential locally. I've been adding as much as I can, but also finding things that I had no idea about. Sometimes within a mile of my house! I found Strava useless for finding new stuff, but all linked together, it works. I think that's a perfect example of a smart use of technology in keeping with this thread. You show me yours, I'll show you mine.
Whilst there is doubtless room for improvement, given the constant bombardment of consumerism by magazines and websites whose main role is to employ folk (most of whom seek a cushy life receiving freebies and travelling the world for the launch of the next big thing) to peddle fresh produce (and staler produce at discounted prices) on behalf of manufacturers, at the same time we have to remember if we don't buy stuff, then progress and innovation stagnate, companies go bust, jobs are lost, and it all kinda sucks.
At the end of the day, we should be encouraging cycling in all it's forms, as not only is it a healthy and enjoyable sport, but a relatively low impact form of transport; the more cyclists there are, the more people to ensure adequate provision for cycling infrastructure, which cuts down on car use and improves the ratio of fitties to fatties.
Which reminds me... the reason pedicabs (rickshaws) are only confined to a few cities in the UK is down to archaic licensing laws and the power of the taxi lobby.
They're a fun mode of transport, with minimal environmental impact which open up employment opportunities and benefit the local economy... surprised more councils haven't been proactive in encouraging their use.
Whilst there is doubtless room for improvement, given the constant bombardment of consumerism by magazines and websites whose main role is to employ folk (most of whom seek a cushy life receiving freebies and travelling the world for the launch of the next big thing) to peddle fresh produce (and staler produce at discounted prices) on behalf of manufacturers, at the same time we have to remember if we don’t buy stuff, then progress and innovation stagnate, companies go bust, jobs are lost, and it all kinda sucks.
This gets to the issue of systemic change. Climate change aside, automation and AI are probably going to put masses of people out of work, so we've got to do something about how the whole model of consumerism works.
I think just buying less often, buying simpler, favouring durability, and travelling less as an individual is useful, but insufficient. Trying to encourage a broader culture where you encourage others to do the same, and information and infrastructure is in place to make this easier (better trains, etc., good info on local routes), is much better. But this too isn't enough for the reasons you say: the whole economic system still requires endlessly churning out new stuff to avoid economic collapse. That's a much bigger challenge.
If the global economy stagnates the investment in developing countries will diminish. China is one of the biggest investors in Africa and it wouldn't happen without mass consumerism
You need to buy more stuff, shirley putting more pressure on better production methods would have a bigger impact globally than reduction of a few bike parts individually.
Even if everyone in the UK stopped buying so much tat the knock on effect in other parts of the world would counter act that marginal gain.
If we buy more tat {with better enviro credentials} then the developing world will be able to join us for the ride :o)
I think we need global economic collapse. Currently, the only way for people like me (not independently wealthy, don't own land) is to consume, or enable the consumption of, the planet in order earn currency to pay the bills.
Aren't those stats above that show reductions in emissions the ones where the UK sneakily left out aeroplane travel?
I very much like the idea of the local riding blog. It's an idea I've had in my head for a while (mainly as an antidote to bloody Instagram). I'd love to write for that if one ever got up and running.
I think 'gravel' bikes have a big part to play. I have a Genesis CDF which is just 'my bike'. I use it for everything except gnar - riding to work, around the lanes from the door, in the woods. I build it from second hand parts and it's a joy just to go ride.
I did move for closer riding. I live 4 miles from the Quantocks, which I really should ride to from the door but I guess driving up there on a Sunday morning is better than the regular 2 hour trips I'd make from where I used to live.
I'm just trying to consume less I suppose. Only have 2 bikes now, sow kit back up, use more robust parts rather than the latest lightweight stuff. No carbon...
Someone mentioned making your own snacks too. I'm trying that at the mo, takes a lot of organisation though.
I should probably change my ST subscription to online only too...
Damn, seems there's some elements in all this that might not immediately spring to mind...
Tour de France condemned over ‘avalanche’ of 15 million bits of plastic thrown to crowd
Appreciate there's no MTB events on quite the same scale, but no doubt there's plenty of long forgotten promotional tat floating around the world's water ways with no intention of decomposing 🤔
^ oh yes, the TdF is a massive waste of energy and resources. Hate to think what goes into it in total. Whether it can justify it or where it sits on the general scale I have no idea.
You could apply the same thoughts to the EWS, DH WC and XC WC though, apart from the vans with giant plastic characters on top and PR people throwing useless tat at that crowds : ) All part of the TdF business.
Appreciate it's hard to criticise the TdF for waste in the global scheme of things, it's part of it but we all are, but if you didn't have global race series you might not have racing so far up the marketing agenda and people may find other ways to promote and enjoy bikes - ie "there's a 100 mile route near me, can I ride it in a day?" vs "ooh, a race at the other end of the country on built trails, best load up the new race rig into the van". Let's be honest, marketing can be inspiring and it works to some extent.
Apply something like that to a lot of activities as well as cycling (football was mentioned - I spoke to a brand agency not long ago about a cool 'everyday ballers' idea they had, about celebrating the local kick-about or 5 aside as greater than the premiership since it was real participation, thought it was great thinking) and maybe it could count.
The local rides blog/site/mag is a good point. Bunyan Velo did it well for a while. I think it's very hard to create/curate enough engaging content to feed something like that, esp if you try to avoid product tests and encouraging consumption. Take away race events and results and product news and you'd be left with the stories of journeys and insights mainly. There aren't many riders who write and take photographs that well or there aren't many variations on that theme, either way, content quality could be the challenge. Sidetracked does it well but mainly through promoting adventure rather than any specific sport, they're kind of like a more subtle Redbull TV in print. Wider appeal and more content opportunity to draw from.
Maybe my expectations are too high. The team behind Cranked could do it well imo, or would have a far more valid opinion on how feasible it could be.