[Closed] More bad news fron London

Very very sad.
What is the matter this year? Why so many?
I don't recall things being so bad ever.

A 19 year old, knocked off his bike on Saturday night in Bath by some ****ing **** hit-and-runner has also died.

Maybe a lot of people taking it up over the summer, and now it's darker.. terrible though.

EDIT: saw this on that link

The fatality came as Metropolitan Police traffic officers gave road safety advice to cyclists and more than 70 lorry drivers at Vauxhall Bridge Road, Whitechapel High Street and Albert Embankment.

Good.

I may invest in some high viz.

this is getting ridiculous now.
loads of coppers out this morning and tonight waiting at the lights to chastise cyclists - two of us were last through the changing lights and I could see he wanted to have a word with us but chose to tell off another guy without a front light.
saw some massive * of a lorry driver blatantly go through a red light and I wanted to have a word but he was too high up in his cab and it would have been a bit risky.
two coppers on foot round the corner did * all about it.
had to shout at a bus driver for making a stupid move and trying to squeeze out 4 cyclists.
there's definitely something in the air at the moment...

Hopefully all the cyclists, and angry drivers, who got stopped will go home tonight and think about their behaviour on the roads, and just possibly take some more care when interacting with each other.

hopefully

there's definitely something in the air at the moment

Really? Not from my point of view. But then, I dont ride like a dick, and I don't get angry.

Stay safe, folks. Dont be a dick and ride with a clear brain.

Surely this is just cycling promotion working and getting more people out on bikes but lacking the cycling and road skills and experience to anticipate and avoid danger.... I can't see that drivers behavior has changed much.

there's definitely something in the air at the moment
Really? Not from my point of view. But then, I dont ride like a dick, and I don't get angry.

Stay safe, folks. Dont be a dick and ride with a clear brain.

Interesting you say that Flash cos I've been thinking there's something in the air in London in recent months too. Almost as if all the stories in the press normalise bad treatment of cyclists...

There is something in the air in Parliament Square, but I dunno if it's better or worse than previously.

I am thinking of changing my route.

Well, riding in town every day, I'm just not getting this 'something in the air' stuff.

Yes, the recent news is vile, and we all need to do more. But, not seeing any sort of conspiracy.

to clarify, by 'something in the air', I mean there appears to be more bad decisions being made around town - by all users of the roads - pedestrians, cyclists, motorcylists, cars, vans, lorries. everyone.

happens every year around this time as people get pissed off because it's dark and they're not home yet. this year seems especially bad.

There seems to be a disproportinate number of young women driving cars, who have absolutely no idea of road spacing,road sence,spacial interaction, and general awareness of whats happening around them on the road at the present time.

The rear view mirrors are for you to keep an eye out for what is happening behind and at the side of you, not for looking into and flicking your hair.

Oh and dont scream all sorts of abuse at me, for being infront or at the side of you, you wouldnt do it on a bus, when you loose your licence would you luv.

Interesting you say that Flash cos I've been thinking there's something in the air in London in recent months too. Almost as if all the stories in the press normalise bad treatment of cyclists...

I think there have been some terrible legal decisions when it comes to prosecuting drivers that have killed cyclists but there is no 'road wars' as some would have it.
Most drivers are v tolerant of cyclists and pretty patient. Its just that when drivers are on the phone / speeding / not indicating then the law needs to give an on the spot fine, every time. And of course riders shouldn't jump lights, listen to music, use their phones or not check over their shoulder before changing lane or channel.

something in the air? not sure...its as bad as it always seems for a month after the clocks change but it usually settles I think. I got clipped by a woing mirror in camberwell new road last week, cut up by a bus this morning....and also nearly taken out by a young lady in a corsa who anchored on and slid for over a second (behind me...I was braced for impact but thankfully she got control and missed me)... about the same as usual then.

I'm not finding parliament square any worse than normal moly, entering from millbank and exiting at whitehall, which way do you go?

In my office at least the deaths are raising the profile of cyclists, and getting some sympathy.

Although I doubt any of them drive in London. In fact, who on earth does? Obviously it's cabs, busses, and delivery people etc, but how many private motorists are there? And who are they?

I'm not finding parliament square any worse than normal moly, entering from millbank and exiting at whitehall, which way do you go?

I go from Buckingham Palace way over the bridge. So you've got to get right as you enter the square, where loads of cabbies are peeling left off the square to go left down Whitehall, then you've got to get right again through all the traffic forcing its way left down Victoria embankment, which is most of it.

The dreaded double-merge manoevre (which is bad enough in a car) twice, against the majority flow, with pepole rushing for lights, and in London with mostly impatient cabbies.

It is very sad, but remember that more pedestrians are killed in London than cyclists- about 70 per year. Why is there not an outcry about that?

loddrick todays death and I believe several of the others have been 60+ yr old blokes, I doubt they are new to cycling

causes?
some interesting data here, from what I can tell
http://www.dft.gov.uk/traffic-counts/area.php?region=London
overall motor traffic is down in london by about 20%, ever since the c-charge came in
the number of cars has reduced by 40%
the number of cyclists has nearly doubled
the number of buses has increased by 30%
the number of LGVs and HGVs has stayed the same, so by proportion the %age has increased
and I suspect that traffic speed has also increased due to reduced number of cars
and of course borris famously sped up traffic lights across london to increase traffic flow

also the data above is only up to 2012
and it certainly seems, in west London, that there is a huge construction boom going on, there is a constant stream of cement mixers and tipper trucks on my commute I would suspect that 2013 would see an increase in HGVs

either way there are a lot more cyclists around and f-all extra provision for their safety (painting the roads blue really doesnt count)

Interesting point vickypea, I'd wondered how the recent figures compared to those for pedestrians.

We need to be really careful trying to pin blame and demanding action until all the facts of these accidents are properly examined - is it bad driving, bad road design, bad vehicle design/blind spots, lack of lights on bikes, inexperienced cyclists misjudging things, over confident cyclists misjudging things - at the moment we don't know for sure.

What I fear is that if we whip an internet storm, the politicians and Police will be looking for a quick fix knee jerk "solution" to show that they are addressing the problem and we'll get some half-assed change in helmet law or something which may (and I obviously don't know) have naff all to do with the actual problem(s)

I go from Buckingham Palace way over the bridge. So you've got to get right as you enter the square

ooo, coming out of bird cage walk to go anywhere other than whitehall does look tough. you have my sympathy.

stay safe people

All good stuff above, except: I'm not getting the 'don't listen to music' thing.

Why not? Its possible to ride with earphones in at a moderate level, and still be aware of your surroundings- much more so than if in a car.

And, looking at it more blackly- if someone shoots a set of traffic lights and comes at me, what the hell can I really do anyway? I'm on a bike, I'm fairly agile, but from the reactions standpoint sight is much more important.

bus drivers discusingg cyclists on bbc, nicely unbalanced asper usual, especially the reporters introduction.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-24937699

Hearing is really useful for stuff coming from behind. Its not something that matters as much when driving a car as you're all going the same speed. I stopped wearing a thin beanie under my helmet as I didnt like the 20-30% loss of hearing.

Its your call but I think you're mad (in a nice way obviously).

your hearing is 360 degrees, your sight isn't. I'd prefer to use that extra sense.

We've done this before on here. I got accused of having something wrong with my eyes because I also use my ears.

Bonkers.

as for headphones, I can see the argument but HGVs are loud enough that even if I was listening to Slayer at max volume on my ipod Id still hear them coming!

molgrips - Member

I may invest in some high viz.

A cyclist is critical in Frenchay hospital (Bristol) after being knocked off near Frome last week. He was wearing high vis and had full lights.

vehicle drivers also seem to hit each other,horses, trees, lamposts and signs, quite often, non have ear phones on and some are stationary.

Driver and cyclist eductation and training is whats reqd,along with strict enforcemet of the road laws, with fines investe in cycling and pedestrian infrastructure, because drivers all have to walk sometimes.

Hi viz? Only this very morning a car pulled on to a roundabout that I was going around, it stopped maybe 18 inches away from me, I thought it was going to hit my leg and back wheel.

I was wearing a white helmet, with white light atop, red light behind, a white jacket, longs with densely-packed reflective spots, Hope Vision 4 on front, red light at the back, bright red and pink courier bag, also with a light, and reflective strips (although, to be fair, the driver couldn't see my back).

As I remarked at the scene "WHAT THE **** DO I HAVE TO WEAR FOR YOU TO BE ABLE TO SEE ME!!!???" ...

The best part was the other cars tooting because they were being delayed momentarily.

Sadly I also saw an utter tool weaving about on a bike through Liverpool city center tonight.
Helmet, Hig-viz & lights on a Giant city bike:
He rode through 7 red lights @ one point a pedestrian on the crossing had to jump back to avoid being hit, last I saw was him riding the wrong way down a one way street. If I could have I would have chased him down and informed him what a **** he was, but as I was obeying the lights I couldn't. I could just see the ****ish behavior was reinforcing what most car drivers think 🙁

Sadly I also saw an utter tool weaving about on a bike through Liverpool city center tonight.
Helmet, Hig-viz & lights on a Giant city bike:
He rode through 7 red lights @ one point a pedestrian on the crossing had to jump back to avoid being hit, last I saw was him riding the wrong way down a one way street. If I could have I would have chased him down and informed him what a **** he was, but as I was obeying the lights I couldn't. I could just see the ****ish behavior was reinforcing what most car drivers think

I nearly thought this was me until I read the description... 😉

The number of utter dickheads I see riding bikes after dark, no lights, or very, very feeble ones, all in black, or dark clothing, sometimes even riding no-handed just astounds me. And not just in London, where I've been twice in the last six days, but cities like Bristol are even worse. Just suicidal, many riders.
I may be terribly judgemental, but the first thing I thought when I heard about the lad in Bath, who worked in a city-centre pub, was; did he have lights and a helmet on, because it was a head injury that did for him, and I see so many riders around without either.

vickypea - Member

It is very sad, but remember that more pedestrians are killed in London than cyclists- about 70 per year. Why is there not an outcry about that?

Is it connected to the fact that there's more than 3 and a half times more pedestrians than cyclists?

but the first thing I thought when I heard about the lad in Bath

The first thing I thought about was what a waste of a young life. Then I thought about the **** that decided not to bother waiting to see the consequences of his actions...or even if the cyclist wasn't visible, at least stayed around to explain any mitigating factors...or perform some minor first aid that could have saved the lad's life...or rung the ambulance which may have arrived crucial minutes earlier.

They were the things I thought about.

Wondering whether he had lights on his bike or was wearing the "wrong clothing" was way down the list.

I may be terribly judgemental

Yes, you may very well be.

There seems to be a disproportinate number of young women driving cars, who have absolutely no idea of road spacing,road sence,spacial interaction, and general awareness of whats happening around them on the road

Generally speaking I'd have to agree, bit last night my father in law drove us to Durham - 20 minute journey. He's 55, drives a Discovery and has been driving for 30 odd years.

He managed to narrowly miss a few cars and pulled into the middle lane on top of a Luton van. It was only me shouting that stopped a collision. "Stupid **** shouldn't have been undertaking" was his only comment :'(

Spot on DD.

And,

What I fear is that if we whip an internet storm, the politicians and Police will be looking for a quick fix knee jerk "solution"

If we do nothing and suck it up, what then? Better some exposure and publicity than just accepting the death toll.

All these cyclists riding like tossers comments are probably true but I bet the percentage of such riders is very low so the chance of them adding to the statistics is next to zero. They're nothing to do with the deaths and it's pointless bringing them into the argument. If people are blowing through lights all the time as people say they do they're not going to be cycling long.

How many cyclists braking the rules of the road have killed a car driver?

It's the term "cyclist" that dehumanizes us. Would much rather son/father/daughter etc on a bike. To remind all that these are people.

A quick look at the stats for cycling deaths in London is that this year is similar to the last few years in total - not that that makes it right. If the recent 6 deaths had not happened in such quick succession we would have been heralding a reduction in numbers for 2013. If the 13 had died at the rate of about one a month nothing much would have been said in the media but 7 in 10 months and 6 in two weeks skews the trend.

I have no access to stats to see if autumn is a worse time for cycling deaths or serious injury long term. My perception, perhaps wrongly, is that after the clocks change it takes people a few days to get used to it and that includes cyclists. I have been caught out before with no lights if I have been later back then I thought or non reflective clothing.

And to follow up something JCL says above; how many cyclists have been killed riding through red lights?

Not heard of one in recent years.

In my office at least the deaths are raising the profile of cyclists, and getting some sympathy.

It's just a shame that's what it takes to get people to start thinking. 🙁

eskay - A cyclist is critical in Frenchay hospital (Bristol) after being knocked off near Frome last week. He was wearing high vis and had full lights.

I don't see the point here; hi-vis and lights won't prevent a car hitting you, they just increase your chances of being seen.

All these cyclists riding like tossers comments are probably true but I bet the percentage of such riders is very low so the chance of them adding to the statistics is next to zero.

But they're the ones people remember. I nearly went into the back of a guy on Essex Road (Islington) one winters evening while riding home. He had no lights, long dark hair, was wearing a long black coat and riding a black sit-up-and-beg.

I thought at the time 'if I can't see you on a bike, what chance does a car driver have?'

However, my point here is that was 12 years ago and I still remember it. In those 12 years I've commuted or ridden a bike nearly every day for about eight of them, so seen a lot more cyclists since that I don't remember.

I do think that the percentage of bad cyclists is going down, actually.

User removed: I didn't say suck it up, I said we need to establish the facts and identify the actual causes so they can be properly tackled.

As a cycle commuter, albeit not in London, I suck it up every day.

The biggest problem of cyclists is refusal to slow down break their overall speed. I know it takes extra effort to speed up again. That reluctance leads to some close up last moment panick decisions by both cyclist and a driver. Undertaking moving vehicles and slow acceleration from traffic lights provokes a lot of aggro too.

Making London into Cycling heaven ... not a chance. Try that in Moscow, New York, Paris, Tokyo? London so far did very well, give good credit for trying. The whole green idea is a non starter. Its either ban motorvehicles and kill economy or pretend trying to do something and get casualties.

I cycle to work and drive in central London.

molgrips - Member

I do think that the percentage of bad cyclists is going down, actually.

Since I nearly got killed jumping the lights at the IMAX on my Brompton, by one at least... 🙂

Does anyone else think this current run of deaths is down to TFL's FORS stickers on the back of lorries and busses telling the cyclist to stay back?

Thus the HGV/PSV driver sits secure in the knowledge that he/she has already exercised their duty of care to the cycling road users around them by having that sticker on the back of their vehicle. They are now free to make their left/right/change-of-lanes-turn with less regard for cyclists, than they used to before the sticker was put there.

To my mind TFL have done a Pontius Pilate hand-wash jobby and ignored the problem. Their answer is to put the onus entirely onto the cyclist.

The Highway Code (on my last reading of it...10 years ago!!)does/did allow undertaking in limited circumstances, such as in one way street systems, and in slow moving traffic.

LONDON IS SLOW MOVING TRAFFIC FROM ONE END OF THE BASTARD TOWN TO THE OTHER!

TFL's FORS stickers on the back of lorries and busses telling the cyclist to stay back?

Imagine cyclists with stickers on their backs attempting to tell other traffic users to behave. That wouldn't get anyone's backs up 🙂

I do realise these stickers on the backs of lorries/vans/buses are for a cyclist's safety so not knocking them.

The biggest problem of cyclists is refusal to slow down break their overall speed. I know it takes extra effort to speed up again.

I followed but not closely a roadie very early on Saturday morning whilst taking my kids swimming, from his speed, build and his bike you could tell he was experienced, he was wearing all black with no lights, as he hit a roundabout with good amount of speed, he would have been able to see the oncoming car to his right (I did) but he rode straight out in front of it rather than stop, how the car didn't hit him I don't know. I ride a road bike too from time to time and when I see stuff like that it really pisses me off as we can all get tarred with the same brush just because of a selfish few

[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-24999302 ]BBC Boris[/url]

I hope he finds a legal way to ban headphones on cyclists. In London headphones are just suicide.

whilst I wouldn't wear earphones and cycle myself that is about as useful as banning people from using a mobile whilst driving.

ffs Boris is a dick

banning headphones, what kind of idiot thinks that will protect someone from an HGV turning across them?

still its an excellent daily mail friendly way of turning the debate away from the obvious fact that the roads in london just cant handle bikes and trucks together

banning headphones, what kind of idiot thinks that will protect someone from an HGV turning across them?

We have five senses - what kind of idiot doesn't use as many as possible while cycling in potentially lethal traffic?

If there is a lorry in my blind spot about to turn into me, I generally hear it. If I hear it I know it's there, and if I know it's there I can brake so it misses me.

I have actually cycled a few times with headphones, and I realised that every car appearing in my peripheral vision was a complete surprise. And surprises are the last thing you want when riding in traffic IMO.

senses - what kind of idiot doesn't use as many as possible while cycling in potentially lethal traffic?

Plus one

yeah I try and taste unseen traffic all the time

the sound of an HGV is easy enough to hear whilst wearing headphones and relying on your hearing to warn of other traffic is foolish*, look and look again,
especially when crossing a poorly designed junction/ roundabout which is where these deaths are concentrated

*also other cyclists make no noise and a Prius is virtually silent on the roads

PJ said:

We have five senses - what kind of idiot doesn't use as many as possible while cycling in potentially lethal traffic?

Can you actually distinguish traffic noise from traffic noise that's going to bump into you?

Might as well ban cycling with a blocked nose.

Does anyone else think this current run of deaths is down to TFL's FORS stickers on the back of lorries and busses telling the cyclist to stay back?

Thus the HGV/PSV driver sits secure in the knowledge that he/she has already exercised their duty of care to the cycling road users around them by having that sticker on the back of their vehicle. They are now free to make their left/right/change-of-lanes-turn with less regard for cyclists, than they used to before the sticker was put there.

To my mind TFL have done a Pontius Pilate hand-wash jobby and ignored the problem. Their answer is to put the onus entirely onto the cyclist.

As I've pointed out on other threads like this, TFL & the City of London Corporation have made it compulsory for HGV's operating on their behalf to have Side-Scan fitted - not the cheap, rebadged parking sensor kits but the pucker ones. It's taking a while for them all to get done but it is, at least, a work in progress.

I know someone involved in the exercise & there was recently a large gathering of the firms involved to discuss and promote this (amongst other issues). There is a long term plan being formulated with initial steps such as reducing speed limits already being implemented.

[url= http://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/services/transport-and-streets/traffic-management/road-danger-reduction/Documents/road-danger-reduction-plan-2013-supporting-technical-document.pdf ]Here is the report they are currently using[/url] which has some very interesting statistics for all road users in London.

The one thing my friend said he'd noticed wasn't changing for the better was driver's attitudes - he feels that that a large proportion of the HGV drivers he's come into contact with don't think they'll even be prosecuted if they have a collision with a cyclist let alone be punished severely - apparently one bus driver he spoke to was extolling the fact that if it happened while he was driving he'd "get loads of time off to get over the trauma".

It's a situation that clearly needs education on both sides but maybe some proper sentencing on careless/dangerous drivers would be a start.

banning headphones, what kind of idiot thinks that will protect someone from an HGV turning across them?

The only person who can do something about the situation you've just described is the idiot cyclist who put himself on the inside of an HGV turning left....Darwin award candidate.

Seriously, these deaths are awful but the riders who put themselves in the blind spot of buses, HGVs etc are not helping themselves.

I appreciate your compassionate and considered response deviant but the CS2 deaths in particular seem to have involved cyclist put there by the blue painted cycle lanes that lead then up the inside of trucks.

Can you actually distinguish traffic noise from traffic noise that's going to bump into you?

Do vehicles sound quieter the further from you they get? Or are they just small? 😉

Might as well ban cycling with a blocked nose.

Good idea. Let's shut our eyes too and use the force.

Can you actually distinguish traffic noise from traffic noise that's going to bump into you?

Yes, I can. I have two ears, so I can tell where something is and how close it is. A lorry closing in close behind me is very audible and thanks to years of practice using my ears quite alarming. That's the point where I tend to look round.

relying on your hearing to warn of other traffic is foolish

Of all the utterly ridiculous arguments.. 🙄

I don't RELY on my hearing for ****'s sake, I don't shut my ****ing eyes! I use ALL my senses to their maximum potential. Primarly my eyes, but they only look infront. If you are constantly looking behind you then you're not looking forward. Ears provide an early warning system so that you can then deploy your eyes.

I honestly can't believe I'm having to tell people how to use their senses! How ****ing important is your MP3 collection that you have to lose or impede one of your senses in a potentially dangerous situation just to be with it every second of the day.

For ****'s sake get a grip!

a Prius is virtually silent on the roads

Actually not true. Most noise coming from a petrol car at 30mph is made by the tyres, and Priuses have those.

yeah I try and taste unseen traffic all the time

Kimbers on way to work earlier today. :p

[img] [/img]

Deviant..

The only person who can do something about the situation you've just described is the idiot cyclist who put himself on the inside of an HGV turning left....Darwin award candidate.

That's simply not the case - you're attributing blame to cyclists when you don't know the circumstances.

To give you an example, I was knocked off my bike by a bus this week. I was overtaking a line of parked cars. The bus was behind me, overtook (or rather tried to overtake), I was about mid point, between front and rear wheels with the bus when it veered left into space between the parked cars getting to a bus stop. I was getting to the space, I was pushed left into the kerb, puncturing my front tyre and throwing me onto the pavement. Do I qualify for a Darwin award? Apart form not cycling, there is *nothing* I could do. I was cycling at a safe distance from the cars, the bus overtook me me partially on the other side of the road.

You basically called a bunch of dead cyclists idiots when there is little or no information on the circumstances surrounding the accidents.

Seriously, these deaths are awful but the riders who put themselves in the blind spot of buses, HGVs etc are not helping themselves.

If that's what they did. Something you don't know.

It's fairly callous to attribute blame to people without knowledge of circumstance.

Signs on buses: boils my piss, I have written to Andrew Gilligan ccing Boris (no reply as yet) to say: the roads are SHARED, they do not 'belong' to buses therefore the signs are unlawful, further that the signs are divisive, and only serve to reinforce motorists' views that cyclists are a nuisance or not part of traffic. I have invited them to take the notices down.

In the meantime am working on a notice of my own - to go on my back - which will say

BUSES

STAY BACK

Using ears as early-warning devices: I get a lot of clues from listening to tyres - along with engine note I can tell if the following vehicle is accelerating/braking/swerving violently or aggressively or if they are following me in a reasonable manner.

I can usually tell if there's a bus (they must have some kind of auto box as I can hear the torque converter winding up) so I know to look ahead for a bus stop as if there is, there's a possibility that I will get overtaken and then cut up immediately.

etc - listening has served me well over the years

Using ears as early-warning devices: I get a lot of clues from listening to tyres - along with engine note I can tell if the following vehicle is accelerating/braking/swerving violently or aggressively or if they are following me in a reasonable manner.

Well put. When hearing one of the aggressive drivers I tend to move into the curb regardless. That sort of driver tends to wait for nothing and will squeeze through without a care.

Drivers of small cars, too. It's the one with the high-pitched engine tone that isn't decelerating - you know they're coming through at full tilt because they believe there's enough room on the carriageway between the central markings for them and you. Again I move to avoid probable collision.

kimbers, would you drive off a cliff if the road you were on led you to it?....of course you wouldnt, cyclists are under no obligation to use the cycle lane if they think its dangerous....if the cycle lane leads up the nearside of vehicles turning left and puts you between said vehicles and railings for example then you'd have to be pretty stupid to do this.

Paddy, i'm only referring to incidents when a cyclist puts themselves in danger.
In your case the bus driver is entirely at fault...but if the traffic was stationary and a cyclist filters to the front and to the left of vehicles waiting to turn left (putting themselves in a blind spot to compound matters) then the cyclist has to take some of the blame for that...its beyond stupid.

I skimmed through the article and it does say the HGV was turning left, there has been enough publicity about this kind of incident now that if cyclists are still doing this then i struggle to have any kind of sympathy, sorry.

My brain seems to do a lot subconsciously with sound. For example my heart jumps into my mouth suddenly when I hear an engine accelerate towards me, in my lane when there's no room to pass. Then my conscious brain realises it's a motorbike and there's plenty of room for a safe pass..!

Riding along the A6 towards Belper in Derbyshire on Sat morning, passing a parking lay-by with a truck in it. (RH drive, UK plated). Just passed the back of the trailer & he suddenly swings out to do a U-turn. 😯

We had lights (good ones), High-Vis etc. Luckily having to mount the kerb (& probably take out the hedge given how long the thing was) slowed him, giving us time to get out of his way. I was speechless, & needed clean underwear.

Well put. When hearing one of the aggressive drivers I tend to move into the curb regardless. That sort of driver tends to wait for nothing and will squeeze through without a care

See, I tend to do the opposite. I move out deliberately so there isn't the possibility of the person squeezing past. Yes it might annoy them but it is a sight safer than being pushed into the gutter / curb (this happened to me when I was 'learning' to commute)

If you regularly ride the same routes I find it is nearly always the same roads / places that I get near misses or buzzed. This points more to road design than impatient drivers imo. There is one road I ride along which has sunken drains approx 2-3 foot out into the road whilst just being wide enough to let cars past if you are about 1 foot from the curb. Dangerous for cyclists.

Oh and I ride with headphones, have for several years, it is possible to have music playing at a volume where you can hear everything that is going on around you as well. By the same dumb thought process we should ban radios in cars. And maybe even drivers talking to their passengers?!

[quoteWell put. When hearing one of the aggressive drivers I tend to move into the curb regardless. That sort of driver tends to wait for nothing and will squeeze through without a care

I tend to do the opposite. I move out deliberately so there isn't the possibility of the person squeezing past. Yes it might annoy them but it is a sight safer than being pushed into the gutter / curb (this happened to me when I was 'learning' to commute)

And me, take the whole lane and make youself big. If you move over you're just encouraging them to think that they can squeeze past.

Oh and I ride with headphones, have for several years, it is possible to have music playing at a volume where you can hear everything that is going on around you as well. By the same dumb thought process we should ban radios in cars. And maybe even drivers talking to their passengers?!

The difference is that a driver does not use his/her hearing to the same degree a cyclist does (or can, should they choose). I tend to drive without music so I can hear the engine (and music is normally a distraction unless I'm on a long, straight motorway when it becomes an aid), but I know I'm probably in a minority doing this. That said, I still can't hear other cars while in one, thus making it fairly irrelevant.

On a bike however, I can hear what other traffic is doing and it's incredibly useful. Why you'd want to compromise that baffles me.

Oh and I ride with headphones, have for several years, it is possible to have music playing at a volume where you can hear everything that is going on around you as well. By the same dumb thought process we should ban radios in cars. And maybe even drivers talking to their passengers?!

Strange how stupid drivers both cant see me or hear me when i have a rant a few feet from their vehicle, both deaf and blind it appears. or just ignorant

I agree that road users with headphones are a hazard to themselves and to others. I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that, if you're in the road, you shouldn't have headphones on. The ones I mostly see where this would be a step forward for safety are pedestrians.

A question for BoJo and the Headphone Haterz will/should the ban also apply to motorbike and moped riders, deaf people and pedestrians crossing the road ?

I tend to do the opposite.

I understand your viewpoint, guys. I'm no newb to this road riding malarkey - I've been cycling for transport for 28 years and I'm familiar with assertive riding - I just think it largely depends on the road, the time and the situation.

The particular road I'm prepared to move gutterside on has numerous drains about every 20 yards or so and the surrounding 'road' has collapsed leaving deep holes. In order to avoid these you have to sit out about 80cm. I consider this to be a safe distance for a cyclist to sit and you'd think it was out enough to stop drivers squeezing through but no, the road is just wide enough for cars to get through the gap between me and the white line with about 8 inches to spare. While I dislike having cars this close to me, I have no problem if the traffic is moving slowly. At 50mph+ it becomes a little unsettling and as some drivers will blast through regardless of that distance and their speed, I'd rather just tuck out of the way. I know I could sit that little bit further out but it feels ridiculous and I would imagine that to the average car driver, it would appear as if I was an antagonistic cyclist looking for trouble.

It's a tough call but you have to call it at the moment. I've had three knocks on that road - only one driver was decent enough to stop. So many close shaves I've lost count.

a driver does not use his/her hearing to the same degree a cyclist does

Well, all this debate (not just on here) spurred me on to get a new helmet for commuter journeys, so I got a nice [s]shiny[/s] err, matt black Bern Watts helmet. Fit is very good, will keep the majority of rain off and not too voluminous for my oversized melon.

Obviously matt black isn't really an ideal commuter choice, so I got busy with some left over scotch tape. Quite pleased with the result, even if no-one else is!

[url= http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7298/10950038305_2ac166b134.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7298/10950038305_2ac166b134.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/cheesyfeet/10950038305/ ]New helmet[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/cheesyfeet/ ]-Cheesyfeet-[/url], on Flickr

[url= http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3675/10950274623_711005961a.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3675/10950274623_711005961a.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/cheesyfeet/10950274623/ ]New helmet[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/cheesyfeet/ ]-Cheesyfeet-[/url], on Flickr

A question for BoJo and the Headphone Haterz will/should the ban also apply to motorbike and moped riders, deaf people and pedestrians crossing the road ?

I don't think the plod would look kindly upon motorbike / moped riders listening to their iPods. As for daft peds glued to their phone that step out into traffic - we can live in hope, eh? 😉