In my experience, there seems to be a strong correlation between those that moan about bike servicing/repair costs and those that have bikes that undergo unexpected, spontaneous disassembly in the trail head carpark.
In my experience, the moaning has nothing to do with it. It's folk that won't pay to get the bike sorted, or those that don't have the interest or ability to maintain their bikes that this happens to. One of my mates moans extensively about the price of repairs, servicing and parts, but it does not stop him paying to keep his bike in good order. Seems to prefer that to doing it himself.
I started my own LBS 14 years ago now and a lot of what's written above seems quite at odds with my own experiences. I've moved with the times. When I started it was worth keeping a full set of XT componentry ready to go, now I don't stock anything higher than Alivio and I've also stopped stocking bikes for sale so the repairs are the mainstay of the business
The repair work I do now is typical of what's been written in this thread but I don't find myself on the receiving end of nearly as much grumbling as others here seem to. I try to treat people as I would like to be treated and stay late if the backlog gets to more than a couple of days. For all that I appear to be earning a slightly above average wage and I have a loyal bunch of regulars, all of whom are very nice folks. And to qualify that, I'm not based in an absurdly affluent area. When I moved into my current premises my landlord who had previously run the place as a butcher's shop told me if I could make a business work here I should be able to make it work anywhere.
The repair work I do now is typical of what’s been written in this thread but I don’t find myself on the receiving end of nearly as much grumbling as others here seem to.
People will always go down the route of moaning though and a lot of what gets brought into workshops verges on the faintly ridiculous which makes it more entertaining than "person brought bike in, mechanic repaired bike, customer paid in full, said thanks and walked out wiuth functional bike".
One of the better ones we had was a guy who'd filled his deep section MTB rims with water because "it makes the bike go faster"
Nothing to add here, but 😯
Customer bought a bike from us then decided to fit a dropper. Bought a stealth dropper but the frame didn’t have a hole for the hose. Customer uses an angle grinder to extend the seatpost slot all the way down the frame to get the hose in. Puts jubilee clips round seat tube to secure it all. Decides he doesn’t like the bike so tries to return it to us for a refund. Gets very angry when we refuse.
At Christmas I often get a neighbour asking me to look at the piece of shit that they’ve bought for their kid.
You can spend all day working on the brakes and THEY JUST DONT WORK.
Id hate to have to work on them all day.
When I worked as a mechanic I started to refuse to do work if the "front of house" employees hadn't quoted, checked the bikes over properly.
Otherwise I'd have 4 or 5 bikes a day with "oil cables brake and gears" services. *shudders*
Eventually we got it to the point where quoted work pricing was within a 5er of the end pricing most of the time.
Customers were happy, because they knew how much they were expected to pay and what was going to be done.
I was happy because I didn't have to spend my day on the phone to customers asking for permission to add £100s worth of bits/labour to the service. Or trying to repair things that were just plain broken.
Managers were happy because the repair income increased as bikes didn't sit waiting for unforeseen parts/confirmation from customers. Turn over of repairs picked up, turn over of stock(replacement parts increased).
We could occasionally convince a customer to buy a nice bike (£200-300) rather than spend £150 on repairing a ~£50 BSO.
There would still be the odd nightmare that'd appear and sneak through the net, but because it was the exception rather than the rule it was a lot easier to deal with and less depressing.
That being said it's still a hard job trying to satisfy everyone and judge peoples level of expertise/understanding.
That innovative dropper post modification in the OP is the funniest thing I've read in ages. Surely sights like that must make it all worthwhile?
Makes me realise I'm lucky to have a friendly, well-priced LBS who actually seem happy to see me, even if they can't always fit me in right away.
My "LBS" is actually a workshop only set-up, run by someone I ride with - he is always busy, but every time I go in there is always something in there that makes me wonder why someone is going to spend ridiculous amounts of money on repairing a BSO. I seem to remember him saying that one of his most common jobs is repairing punctures, so it goes to show what those guys have to deal with on a daily basis!
That innovative dropper post modification in the OP is the funniest thing I’ve read in ages. Surely sights like that must make it all worthwhile?
‘Bloody robbing bastards tried to make me buy a new frame or seat post! I showed them!’
Fascinating post from CFH there. I've had it suggested a few times by people that I should do bike repairs or similar to earn some money, but I just KNOW that most jobs would be to sort out Apollos and the like that people have left in their gardens... no way. I haven't even got the patience with my well(ish)-looked-after kit!)
My favourite LBS (Sivyer Cycles of Havant) has just shut down, I believe. The bloke was a legend - I bought my Tripster off him just to give him the business (and he gave me a large-ish discount without me asking!) - while I was there once, bloke turns up with a BSO, rear mech in bits. Siyver fella stops what he's doing, checks the mech, replaces the jockey wheels, and whatever else. Charges the bloke a fiver! Nuts. Probably knew the abuse he'd get if he asked a proper minimum charge. Although, it was the fellas only travel method to get home.
Definitely not a job I could do (especially as it wouldn't pay the mortgage!!)
Blimey, just remembered, many years ago me and a mate used to spend a lot of time in the LBS in Portsmouth. Owner was a bit of a snob - the sort that intimidates non-bikey people when they go in a shop - 2 young lads came in one day with cycling shoes they'd bought off him - the cleats on both pairs had pulled through the soles. LBS bloke says "these are XC shoes and you've been doing jumps in them" "No no mate" is the response... but I tell you - these shoes were utterly knackered! And! Covered in talc to hide the stink! Unbelievable - he still took them back, can't recall if he refunded or replaced, but shouldn't have done either really!
i did interview for a roll in a shop recently .
i didnt bother taking it as my current job never expired as expected (was moved to another position when the contract ended ) but even from the offset i could see i was going to be depressed in that job.
I think the only way i could work in the trade again is if it was on my own.
MY experiance in an indypendant shop echoes that of borus and mostly balanced and i do think its very much a difference between a chain store and an indy. Wheni worked for a large chain we were actively discouraged from taking in BSO and fixing up bike with priority being given to bike that were bought from us etc.
where is in the indy the customer service was king and we would fix anything - we would be honest about the cost and honest about the *worth* of doing it but if the customer wanted it the customer got it. we rarely had discrepancies between quote and actual cost because front of house quotes were done by the same guys who would be fixing them - we did everything from rudge with rod brakes to full once team replica TCRs with Super record.
when your front of house staff are people who could for all they care be working in spar you get vaguebook repair cards and end up having to do Guess repairs or as above refusing them.
odly enough the indy is still there doing well , the chain seems to be on a downward spiral the last time i was in, i certainly dont shop there - i do still shop in the indy despite it being along way from my house. Ordered my new Propel from there , owe the owner alot ,he taught me alot not just about bikes but about work and life - i look at my 10 years there as my apprenticeship.
I think a pricelist would help in most places.
£5 innertube change plus cost of innertube
£7 innertube change if tube provided by customer
etc
Last time I popped into my LBS to get a chainring bolt tool, the two guys running the place sucked their teeth and said it's £15 I don't expect CRC prices but that's 5 x more expensive.
You all have my sympathies
I work on my own bikes in the main, other than the forks and brakes I'm reasonably competent and can stick a nice bike together in a few hours no problem
Friend asked me to service an old hack that she had been given.. Absolutely impossible to get anything to work to any level whatsoever. After about 2 hours of trying to get the brakes working I finally gave up.
I had a guy haggle to try to reduce the price of a bike rebuild by £10. It was a crap bike. The previous week I’d seen him on the cover of the local paper, collecting a cheque for £230,000 on the post code lottery. I stopped returning his calls.
"The pedals are loose and the gears have gone a bit funny on my mate's bike, could you have a look at them for me please?"
Cue one absolutely hammered 90s Kona with shagged drivetrain and knackered loose ball BB that we had to use heat on the cranks to loosen the taper and a length of pole on the spanner to get the bastard things off the BB axle. We just stuck a new BB in and sent him on his way, it was one of those times when it would've just been cheaper to buy a decent second hand bike 🙁
The problem I think is that it’s geared to the lowest denominator, the person who wants to pay fifty quid to get their rubbish bike fixed. Then when I want my nice bike fixed properly I leave disappointed because the shop has employed people at €8 an hour and they cock it up. That is my experience anyway. Now I have a guy who does my bike, it’s costs €30 an hour, the same as my car mechanic costs, but the bike is perfect. I pay a bit more, sure, but I know it’s right and won’t let me down.
I also have all the tools and carry stock of spares, more than many shops. So when I have time I do it myself. It’s right 99% of the time and the other 1% I’m learning!
Maybe the bike industry need to separate the service. There are plenty of people out there prepared to pay more to get their bikes properly fixed. I know out here in Spain that people are posting bikes to this guy to get them fully serviced and fixed up. Then for the teeth-suckers and punters out there have something cheaper, with minimum wage mechanics just out of school.
I should probably clarify a couple of things.
The majority of our customers are lovely, the examples of bikes I gave were more to counter the comments on the other thread that fixing bikes was dead simple, just watch a video and away you go.
The £50 bike repair was fine. It was discussed with the customer when he brought it in and we agreed the level of work and his expectations. We priced it accordingly and we and the customer were happy. I brought it up to cover the point that some shops don't have any mechanics with qualifications and my view that qualifications are generally worthless in the real world.
We do check bikes over when they come in. Every customer leaves their bike with us knowing what the bill is going to be. If that changes for any reason they'll get a call to explain why and make sure its OK to continue. There is no excuse for grumpiness or rudeness even if the customer is a dick.
Today however is a good day! My boss greeted me this morning by saying that he had a budget meeting yesterday and partly due to the savings made by having one less mechanic we have had a pretty good year. So not only am I getting a small pay rise, but we can switch the heating on for a few hours a day this winter. I'm very happy.
I can totally see the guys point. If people don't value their bike then they won't value the work on it. Yes, people like us don't mind spending a bit of money servicing our bike as we want it to last, if that bike cost £150 a few years ago would we be dropping half that on an annual service? No.
I support my LBS, my bikes have come through them and I by a fair few parts and consumables from them too. I'm mechanically-minded so they don't do a lot of my service work but what they do I appreciate and don't mind paying for the work in the slightest.
I might take them a packet of Hobnobs next time, one thing the post has highlighted is that they are underappreciated for the service they provide the community.
A few years ago my LBS lost all of my custom because I'd asked my wife to drop a wheel in them to have a DH tyre removed (I couldn't do it at home as I'd snapped a couple of tyre levers, and needed it for t he weekend).
They charged her £50 for the privilege of removing a single tyre. They didn't refit a new tyre. She just paid, knowing I'd taken stuff to them before (which had been priced sensibly in the past).
It was eventually refunded after I went in, but it's places like that that take advantage of people that need a jolly good shoeing...
A few years ago my LBS lost all of my custom because I’d asked my wife to drop a wheel in them to have a DH tyre removed (I couldn’t do it at home as I’d snapped a couple of tyre levers, and needed it for t he weekend).
They charged her £50 for the privilege of removing a single tyre.
I'd love to hear the LBS side of this. You broke levers, they wouldn't have magic ones !!! But I wouldn't admit it took me 1 1/2 hours to remove a tyre let alone charge for it Lol. It would have been "no probs 5 minute job". But made a mental note to lock the door if I ever saw your missus walking towards the shop again.
I’d love to hear the LBS side of this
This. Along with what actually happened.
This. Did you ask why it cost so much? How long did it take them? Did they break any levers. Obviously it's a lot of money, but if someone had to struggle with it for 2 hours they need to be paid!I’d love to hear the LBS side of this. You broke levers, they wouldn’t have magic ones !!!
if someone had to struggle with it for 2 hours they need to be paid
if someone had to struggle with it for 2 hours they need to find a new job.
When I moved into my current premises my landlord who had previously run the place as a butcher’s shop told me if I could make a business work here I should be able to make it work anywhere.
Are you in Newport?
This. Did you ask why it cost so much? How long did it take them? Did they break any levers. Obviously it’s a lot of money, but if someone had to struggle with it for 2 hours they need to be paid!
Yes. They were wire-bead DH tyres on D321 rims; I broke plastic tyre levers and didn't have one of the metal DH tyre levers at home. It was something I couldn't do. I was happy to pay for their time - I used them a lot, used to buy most stuff off them, knew them reasonably well.
They did it there and then using a long-handled metal tyre lever in front of my wife. I bought a Pedros one shortly after so I wouldn't have to go back.
This. Along with what actually happened.
Well, she was there, then I went in and shouted at them about the ridiculous price, and they agreed and refunded me - they said it was "someone at the till who got confused". The shop was BikeproRacing in Kings Heath, if you're interested...
@tomhoward not sure why you're calling me a liar without any justification, but hey, everyone's a keyboard warrior...
£5 for a tube and fit?! What century are you from?!
Laughable.
Same experience here... I was helping out in a friend's bike shop and decided to take a couple of repairs on myself to see if i could make a go of it. I quickly realised that there's nothing more dispiriting than trying to fix up a crap bike that nobody cares about; my back ached from bending over and the customer didn't want to pay a reasonable amount for the labour.
I have a friend who has a bike shop and he struggles to survive; can't get a decent bike brand so he spends most of his time doing repairs and to add insult to injury people buy parts on the web then expect him to fit them.
sure why you’re calling me a liar without any justification, but hey, everyone’s a keyboard warrior…
Easy turbo, I’m not. I’m saying there is always three sides to every story, two from the parties involved, then what actually happened.
do you often fly off the handle in the first instance?
seems to me that the shop helped you out in a pinch, cocked up at the till, then sorted the error out when made aware of it. For that you’ll take your business elsewhere, and pour scorn on them on the internet, at the slightest chance
cheers,
Keyboard warrior.
I’m saying there is always three sides to every story, two from the parties involved, then what actually happened.
*Screech* Reverse-ferret alert.
As I said, it's easy to call bull**** from behind a keyboard when there's no comeback, but I'm not sure why (other than simple trolling) you felt the need to do so.
Anyway - I'm a reasonably competent home mechanic, but in this case after a while I realised I simply wasn't going to be able to get the tyre off.
In fact, now I think over what happened, I'm fairly sure I'd been in before to ask for their help with this same wheel/tyre combo and they'd simply done it there and then without asking for payment - not that I was asking for that in this case - but I do think charging someone with no idea of the proper fee £50 for a pretty simple (with the right tools) job is deplorable.
do you often fly off the handle in the first instance?
Ah, I see - clearly trolling. Do you often call complete strangers liars in the first instance - oh, yes, you do...
@tomhoward, Oooh, stealth edit, well done.
Gosh, you really are going all out for a troll, aren't you?
It clearly wasn't an error at the till - small shop, a couple of staff in, the same guy that did the job rings up the till.
That was the excuse that was given when I raised it afterwards - it was clearly an attempt to rip someone off.
pour scorn on them on the internet, at the slightest chance
Er, no - first time, actually. The point that's got slightly lost is that not all LBS are good, honest folk subject to the whims of the great unwashed and to be victimised by Joe Public - actually, some are prepared to rip people off given a chance.
Seeet pea. At what point have I called you a liar/said that anything you have said didn’t happen?
When I come across issues like this in shops I apply ‘never assume malice, where incompetence would fit’
if they’ve tried to keep your fifty quid by fumbling some excuses/justification, fine, hang em high. If they’ve realised the mistake and refunded, then I think you are massively overreacting. But hey, your money, your choice. But it would suck if you couldn’t use them next time you can’t get a tyre of a rim, eh?
We've clearly got some pretty sound LBS owners/staff on this thread.
Perhaps they can tell us how often they make that kind of innocent mistake?
Seeet pea. At what point have I called you a liar/said that anything you have said didn’t happen?
I dunno, seems quite clear there?
When I come across issues like this in shops I apply ‘never assume malice, where incompetence would fit’
if they’ve tried to keep your fifty quid by fumbling some excuses/justification, fine, hang em high. If they’ve realised the mistake and refunded, then I think you are massively overreacting. But hey, your money, your choice. But it would suck if you couldn’t use them next time you can’t get a tyre of a rim, eh?
No, you're right. It's quite easy for someone to ring up £50 on a till for removing a tyre, then run the credit card through, and allow the customer to leave, before they realised their mistake.
Thankfully I bought the Pedros DH tyre lever so it wasn't an issue. Thanks for being so patronising though.
Then a couple of months later the bike was nicked which put paid to the problem in any event.
I used to work as a bike mechanic in a big warehouse sports store (Olympus Sports) and in the two years i worked there we had maybe 3 bikes in for work that you'd have classed as decent. Most was exactly as described in the original post.
The really cheap stuff that we sold was awful too, you'd literally take them new out of the box and they'd be broken, wonky wheels, burred edges on the metal or the brake mounts would be at an odd angle making them virtually impossible to set up. But like someone said above, we didn't get many back, the standard of £100 bikes don't really encourage you to ride often enough to break them.
In the winter I doubled up as the ski tech and that was the only time I got a tip from a customer, £5 for servicing his skis while he waited rather than shoving them on the rack to do later.
I dunno, seems quite clear there?
As I explained above, I really wasn’t. Sorry you interpreted it that way.
ive priced up a few things at work incorrectly with typos, then only realised when the order is placed, that would have gone through had I not picked up the error (both ways) Most customers are fine with it, and we move on. We aren’t talking about £50 here either.
I do think more workshops should offer focused training sessions on either basic maintenance to stop the flood of knackered bikes, or for specific skills such as how to strip and rebuild a hub (charged at an appropriate rate obviously).
Only a tiny percentage of bike owners will actually be prepared to learn how to fix their own bikes. Most people are not interested in getting their hands dirty and fixing things these days, they just want to chuck it away and buy something new, or get someone else to do the work.
No, you’re right. It’s quite easy for someone to ring up £50 on a till for removing a tyre, then run the credit card through
Just a thought, £5 seems about right for the job as described. Easy to accidently type in £50 on the machine. I'm pretty generous in giving the benefit of the doubt in these things as long as it gets sorted.
Comment above about fitting bits bought elsewhere. My two decent LBS will do this no problem. I think most LBS would. I would expect to pay a premium though. My LBS and all nearby seem to stock small range of stuff that either people will buy as they want it in a hurry or a casual would buy for ease of shopping in a shop. Do any LBS have say a range of drivetrain these days when they can order stock to deliver within a day or two? Or just stock a few rear mechs etc. Genuine question.
That said, I do check with them first if I go down this route. Last bike I built from a direct seller frame and needed parts and I asked about them ordering it and they said it was easier for me to buy exactly what I wanted and they'd happily build it. I did buy a brand x dropper from them for about 15 or 20 quid more than CRC and happily paid their labour (of course) but both of us were happy with that and I think they're the best LBS I could ask for.
I worked as a mechanic between jobs a few years ago - the worst job was agreeing on Xmas eve to do a last minute build on one of those catalogue BSO full-sussers as someone's pressie. What should have been a simple job took all afternoon - frame was twisted, hanger bent, both wheels out of true / spokes loose, plastic vee-brake levers would pull back to the bars. Finally managed to get it all sorted after practically rebuilding it, dropped it out the work stand, readjusted the seat post and the 7mm plasticine bolt snapped - ended up drilling it out to 8mm as we had nothing that fitted.
(Ha, just doing a bit of helping out with work, been sent a quote with a typo on it, meaning an item is £450,909, not £45,090, are they trying to rip me off? shall I name and shame them and vow never to use them again?)
Hah! My son's bike fills up just like this and is perfectly watertight around the BB, so the water stays in there forever. The only way I can avoid this is by removing the seatpost, turning the bike upside down and emptying the water out. I then leave the seatpost out for a few days to (hopefully) let things dry out.
I'm sure it does the BB no good, but as it's a GXP SRAM one, it's made of window putty and only lasts a fortnight even when well looked after 🙂
That's not the fault of the owner, that's just the shit engineering which is prevalent across the bike industry. Overpriced/underengineered.
When I wash my enduro, I have to take the bolts out holding the downtube guard to drain the water from the swat box, as there is no sealing on where the cables enter the frame.
How is it in 2018 there is still water getting into bearings, don't see that happening on cars or motorbikes. Some proper engineering and sealing wouldn't go amiss! Forget all the boost bullshit and incremental gains, get the simple stuff right?
Well said Sir HC.
All these gimmicks, buzzwords and exciting new standards - and the bearings still only last six months on a £2k frame.
It's almost like they don't really care.
