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I don’t push through my heels at all when wheelying (it’s all about steady pedal inputs to maintain balance/momentum and although I do when manualling. The push comes more from the hips and I don’t think about my heels at all. If you get me? I’m not a fan of the term “heavy heels/light hands” it’s misleading and creates a strange reliance on the technique
Yeah ok. I'm not describing very well. I'm doing the push with legs / heels / feet / hips (whatever works in one's brain) rather than rely on pulling the bars. It works / helps, thank you.
Same with the heavy heels / light hands comment, I'm well aware it's not the be all and end all of riding and I can well believe some people get hung up on it but I'm comfortable with what that description means to me and how it translates to my riding and helped years ago when I went from "pedal/ brake/ pedal" approach to keeping better flow and pump.
Can we stop calling it an 'American Bunny Hop' please? It's a bunny hop, not an american anything. The other crummy little my-feet-are-stuck-to-the-pedals hop is nonsense, let the Yanks claim that one.
Happy to stop talking about bunnyhops altogether on a thread about manualling. It's just distracting.
Mmm... Bacon
Yeah Kayla. I don't know why folk seem to think they need a purposeful destination to learn basic skills on their bike. Anywhere will do. The closer to home the better really so you can just take the bike out anytiime you've got 5 minutes free.
We don’t have dog poo up here, it’s dug shite. Far worse….
Ugh! Bring back old white crumbly, that's what I say.
A good read. And far more relevant to learning to manual/wheelie than spending time learning to bunnyhop. 😉
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/the-risk-paradox-ryan-leech-mountain-biking.html
Sort of sums up what I like about riding mountainbikes and why I enjoy manualing so much.
Bringing this back to some thoughts relevant to learning to manual my E-mtb actually reminded of the the initial feelings felt when learning manuals for the first time all those years ago. Probably nowhere near how you guys just starting out must be feeling, just reminiscent and nostalgic. What I'm on about is the 15lb extra weight on the downtube and BB area (battery/motor) meaning the front wheel needs to be a fair bit higher at the balance point. Hugely so in comparison to my hardtail or BMX (which I like to manual with the front wheel really low to the ground). Learning something new or re-learning something differently is a good feeling.
😀
Is anyone keen on joining the Tooting Manual Club in South London?
We practice 4-5 times a week for 30 min at around 7pm, so far I'm the only member (practicing with others would make it less embarrassing).
Is there an obvious reason why TRYING to do a manual when going down an incline feels easier? Is it the speed?
Please note the trying, haven't actually done one
Firstly. The slope causes the bike to accelerate naturally so the rear wheel has less to overcome to gain on the front while you push the rear wheel forwards.
Secondly. (but linked) a slope maitains momentum (whereas on the flat or uphill you'll be losing momentum)
It doesn't make a whole lot of difference anymore once you're compitent. You jus naturally compensate for gradient (or lack of)
I think it's more to do with the fact that you are accelerating rather than the speed itself. To lift the front you transfer your weight backwards. This produces a rearwards force that would tend to decellerate the bike. From the discussions above it would appear that what you should be doing is thrusting forwards with your legs, which resists that decelleration, but if the bike is actually accelerating forwards anyway then some of the work is being done for you. Note I'm just talking about the physics of the forces being applied to the bike here, not trying to make any comment about what you should being doing. I'll leave that to the experts. I'm just suggesting a reason why it might be easier to do on a downslope, which is something I've noticed too.
EDIT: Damn, beaten too it 🙂
I built a manual machine and I can manual on it for days, it doesn't translate to anything on the bike.
I knew it wouldn't mimik the balance that I needed, it was slightly useful in stopping me from panicking about coming off the back.
I had a couple of bad experiences when I was younger where I winded myself.
Practice sessions do pay off, an hour on the manuals and I can get to 4m or so.
Yeah. Both of you need to stop overthinking and just practice more.
Thanks for the incline explanation, makes sense
Give yourselves goals. eg. nwmlarge. you're getting 4m now, make a goal to go for 5, then 6, then 8, 10, 15 etc.
Mark out a start line, doesn't need to be a physical line. whether it be a hedge row, lamp post, kerb stone, tar line in the road surface etc doesn't matter. but something you'll remember every time you go to your preferred practice spot.
What bike have you got? My old Hard Rock and Croix de Fer have always been impossible to get there, the Trailstar, 456, Rocket and even the Dirty Disco (to a point) are much easier. Borrow a BMX??
"Fear is the mind killer." Use flats on a grassy, slight downhill, go past the tipping point so you become comfortable with the fact you can hop off the back if it goes too far, fall on yer erse so you learn it doesn't really hurt that much!
(he says, like he's actually any good 😀 )
Dude. I have 12 bikes. I can manual all but my roadbike. (but only because I refuse to slam it's aero carbon seatpost into the carbon frame).
Don't practice on a BMX unless you already ride a lot of BMX - BMXs are easier to raise the front wheel but actually harder to master manualling on than mtbs. Not easier.
An ideal bike to choose to learn/teach manuals for me would be a DJ/4X hardtail. but it's not that important. But if you have a choice. choose one of your shorter wheelbase bikes with a nice short (50mm ish) stem rather than something long with a long stem. Once you have got the hang of manualling properly you can transfer it to any bike with a little re-calibration
He's right, my vid was on my old 4x frame.
So how's everyone getting on?
You are all still putting in practice aren't you?
Been too busy at work unfortunately and youngest has been ill.
So how’s everyone getting on?
You are all still putting in practice aren’t you?
Ah, errrm, well, I decided I couldn't be assed with keep changing the saddle height on the rigid 26" I commute on. I've got an RSP Plummet to put back on it but absolutely needed a new remote for it, went for the Bontrager Drop Line. I just need to put it on which will happen this weekend and then the manual madness will commence on my commutes home from work.
Hahaha... if you think altering the seatpost height on a bike is too much trouble I'm not sure you're going to have the commitment required to learn manuals. I sincerely hope to be proven very very wrong though. 😉
Bump for the dude asking about manuals.
Ps. Who perceived and can now manny like a boss?
Would love to say yes but no. Not being practising enough.Been practicing bunny hops more. Getting interested in basic trials stuff, like in this video. If I manage to get any of that dialed then manuals might become a logical progression.
still can't manual, was doing ok, till I demonstrated your stepping off the back advice to my wife on the road, only I got my clipless shoes caught on the flat pedals of her bike.... cracked several ribs and still can't get properly comfortable at night to sleep 8 weeks later 😉
Is it bad to smile at that story?
I still can't wheelie, still practising that on my MTB when I get out on that. I can get a couple of pedal strokes in if I do a good one
Barely ridden my bike over the summer 😥
Moved house and need to find somewhere to practice out of sight of the local youths.
yeah, I would have laughed, if I could have drawn breath :), probably not helped by the fact I'd been diagnosed with osteoporosis a couple of weeks earlier 🙁
I often doss about on my bike in the street after fixing or fettling it. But it's quite a steep hill which is a PITA.
Eh? Hills = easier to wheelie up, easier to manual down
Pretty disappointing efforts and excuses.. Well except you mahowlett. Get well soon.
I feel mildly ashamed of myself.
Sorry will try harder with my excuses.
haha..
😀
School's open
take a seat.
and slam it as low as it'll go.
i can now do a slightly panicked uncontrolled 3m instead of a hoic and push 1m. i`m terrified of falling off the back. my left index finger and my subconcious are my enemies.
Ironically if there is a swoopy section on a trail i love lifting the front and pushing through it but i dont count it as its not on teh flat and i do it without thinking.
i`ll get there one day... maybe.
I changed bikes and haven’t had any free time 😕 although the Flare seems like it might be easier to manual
It's old, and i'm there are plenty of others out there, but i love this manual to drop by the good for nuffink Mr Rushmore:
minor breakthrough in the manual quest for me today - I realised that if I focus a bit more on pushing through with my leading foot then the front comes up to the balance point much more easily. I think I've been relying too much on my back (right) leg so maybe I'm just counterbalancing it by thinking on the other one... Still not rolling very far but it feels like the action is better.
My 7yo son is currently enjoying just going into the woods, pottering about and practising stuff so it's a great excuse to do the same 🙂
joemmo - you should ideally be pushing equally through both legs to raise the front. Sounds like your inital crank position might be off slightly.
Well done persevering. it's a rare quality here.
yeah cheers, not sure if just noticing this made the push more equal and that's why it was more effective. I tend to favour my right leg after an achilles injury to the left a few years ago so have to work on being balanced.
So for the starting crank position - better to be level or with front or back pedal up a bit?
rear foot a little lower but get used to the cranks rotating slightly as you initiate the front wheel lift and still rotating slightly (less noticably) as you move your weight in and out
I'm lopsided AF from major injuries and physio pretty much gave up on straightening me up so don't worry about that the bodies balance system is great at compensating for imperfections
Something other riders never mention and this might just be specific to me but I prefer manualling with the ball of my foot over the pedal axle. whereas all other technical riding I ride feet placed mid foot over the axle. For really long mannys I slide my foot back before initiating them. I think this is also a foot/ankle flexibility thing. my left foot (rear when manualling) had a full rebuild after dislocation and right has been broken at the heel. I'm actually ambi footed riding but prefer to manual RFF.
Also I don't ever wear sticky soled shoes as I like to be able to alter foot position at will with a slight unweight/slide instead of a lift/replace motion. I also don't really use my rear brake so bearing this in mind my tips on mannies are a bit more BMX based than mtb.
ta, I'll give that a try and also shift my feet back a little, I guess that could help with lowering the heels too.
Regarding imbalance I had some treatment on my back recently and the physio traced that all back to my wonky legs...
I think my point was there's no exact best foot position for everyone but you'll probably have a preference.