[Closed] Mandatory Full Face helmets in enduro for 2015

Another +1 from me for Northwind's thoughts, sums up my feelings entirely.

Hopefully other organisers will continue to put on Enduro races without the mandatory FF rule.

Yeah yeah I know, nobody cares about Scotland or Women's racing, we have learnt to accept it !

Just out of interest when were the first "gravity" enduro races held in the UK?
I raced the Avalanche enduros at Keilder and Ae in 2009 were there any before them?

Dave Morgan did a Stage race back in the 90's for the SW series's. Does that count?

Yeah yeah I know, nobody cares about Scotland or Women's racing, we have learnt to accept it !

Do you want a whale to go with that chip your shoulder?

Bloody brilliant post Northwind! I found myself nodding along to stuff I'd never really considered until you said it.

Got to add my +1 to Nothwind, my thoughts exactly.

Yep +1 for Northwind

Nicely put Northwind.

However I don't have a problem with any race organiser demanding a certain level of protection - they're the ones arranging insurance and first aid. I'd rather they don't ask for full-faces on night stages though because I don't have a light mount for that hat! 😉

[i]Just out of interest when were the first "gravity" enduro races held in the UK?
I raced the Avalanche enduros at Keilder and Ae in 2009 were there any before them? [/i]

I did the Saab Salomon Avalanche Trophy that came to Glentress in summer 2007. Standard enduro format as in transitions and mainly-down timed stages.

[img] [/img]

Didn't they have the USP of not managing to actually time anything two years on the trot.

Its a good post Northwind, but downhill still has plenty of acessible grassroots races that sell out all the time,with a great atmos and even in the topographically challenged southeast, my facebook feed is full of races, ,tidworth, porc, gravity project, Aston etc. Plenty of races for the little people. Were talking 1 minute courses on any kind of slope you can build a berm or jump on and yet...
Dh races have BC regs, need armour full faces, and just as pricey bikes and we go on to dominate the World Cup, men, women, juniors and fort bill voted best round every year, and uplift costs an arm and a leg but FOD, cwmdon, antur,BPW etc book up well in advance.

Enduro is a brilliant format, its great because it can link up the the sweet bits of dh or single track in any part of the country, no matter how flat.
I think its plenty strong enough to survive some standardisation, yeah it'd be a pita riding the transitions in a full face but it's hardly gonna kill the sport overnight.

In fact just like enduro in general has been driving improvement in bikes and armour (650b aside) we'll end up with better vented better protected helmets than ever (troy Lee are have a super duper new enduro ff on the way)
And OnOne will have a bargain parachute/switchblade style lid out before you can say 'enduro specific'

I still have my 2008 kona mashup t shirt somewhere. They did manage to cock up the timing two years in a row.

That was an enduro before the rest of the uk really knew what endure was.

The great thing about enduro is that you can turn up and race on the bike you ride week in week out, in the same riding gear and helmet you always ride in.
Who normally goes out riding in a full face helmet?

^^^ i do. its just a helmet. less people will get hurt. its not a big deal

^^^ er, so do I. I have no desire to ruin my film star good looks + the new met parachute is light, well vented & breathes well.
Personally I see no need for open helmets.

Well as a counter point I never ride in a full face way too hot and insulating from the surroundings.

Me neither unless there's an uplift.
I can't imagine riding 30km in a full face helmet no matter how well vented and light weight it is.

Oh and Nothwinds post deserves another +1.

Hey I did one of those Mash up races with a mate, I quite liked the format actually, there were no cut offs or anything, you just turned up at the start of each section and ride it when you fancied, you could have another go if you cocked up a stage and you could ride them in any order if you preferred...
Unfortunately yes the timing was utter bobbins.

Aside from the timing element it really was just an overpriced trundle round a trail centre... Happy days.

Was that really the first go anyone in the UK had at "Gravity Enduro"? Seems a shade more serious now...

The first uk ones I know of were 1997/98? NACC events organised multistage dh races (7 stages) in the sw. Packed out races riding the bike between each stage. Its nothing new really

Surely if FF helmets are mandtaory for Enduro, then this means the courses are too much like a DH course and maybe too difficult?

Enduro should be about all-round MTB ability, not just 'how fast can I go down a downhill course', which should mean slow technical parts and even some up-hill technical obstacles. Some of the X-Fusion Enduro-1 rounds have this in them.

We should be given the choice to make up or own minds. Mandatory helmets - of course, but having to shell out even more money for a sweatbox that restricts your vision - hmmmmmmm

(point to note: I have a full face, used for uplift and Alps - but wear an open face (sometimes with goggles, sometimes glasses) for #Enduro)

Surely if FF helmets are mandtaory for Enduro, then this means the courses are too much like a DH course and maybe too difficult?

Why does it mean that? You could make FF compulsory for road racing, but that doesn't actually make roads any more dangerous, or imply they're too dangerous as is.

Enduro is a moveable feast, and that's the problem, some are very technical and FF would be wise, some aren't, and folk like choice.

Surely if FF helmets are mandtaory for Enduro, then this means the courses are too much like a DH course and maybe too difficult?

Enduro should be about all-round MTB ability, not just 'how fast can I go down a downhill course', which should mean slow technical parts and even some up-hill technical obstacles. Some of the X-Fusion Enduro-1 rounds have this in them.

We should be given the choice to make up or own minds. Mandatory helmets - of course, but having to shell out even more money for a sweatbox that restricts your vision - hmmmmmmm

If you want a less technical test of all round MTB ability, why not race XC? This is what I don't get. We have XC, and DH as two disciplines, then someone decided to create Enduro as a series of mostly DH stages with untimed climbs/XC linking them. There are plenty of technical XC cousrses/races (Ok, there's also Sherwood Pines) where you ability to do technical climbs and decents are tested, if you want a less technical alternative to Enduro then why not race XC?

Whilst the flatter 'not really enduro' races may be popular, if they want to use open face helemets then maybe they need to come up with a new name to differentiate themselves. Becasue like you I wouldn't ride a fractured Xc course in a FF helmet, but then I'd probably not ride it at all, I'd rather race the whole lap.

There probably is room for both formats to co-exist. But rules need to be made/set for one reason or another and at the top end FF is probably the right way to go. Is there the same argumet in DH racing that Fort William needs FF helemts, but Aston Hill doesn't because it's not as Gnarr?

thisisnotaspoon - Member

if you want a less technical alternative to Enduro then why not race XC?

Because the 2 sports are completely different? That doesn't seem too hard to grasp.

What people are talking about here (I think) is offering something easier, but still recognisably an enduro. So gravity-fed, descent oriented, skills focused, just less hard. Heh, like an early UKGE 😉 But nothing at all like XC racing.

I don't see enduro struggling because of full facers.

Go to any trail center and you find hordes of whippet like kids sessioning the downhill and pump tracks on any ebay'd full bouncer their Chrimbo plus Birthday money would stretch to, and if they decide to race and they realise that their not-quite-a-downhill-bike is pretty handy for enduro, that's somewhere they will go, and they won't give a stuff about wearing a full face lid cos it's all they've ever known.

One bitter little corner of the web pouring scorn on wearing more than spray on hot pants and a pudding basin to race doesn't matter to the world. Don't you all have woodpiles to stroke? 🙂

restricts your vision - hmmmmmmm

Wearing it backwards by any chance?

Northwind - Member

What people are talking about here (I think) is offering something easier, but still recognisably an enduro. So gravity-fed, descent oriented, skills focused, just less hard. Heh, like an early UKGE But nothing at all like XC racing.

what he said, again.

i wouldn't suggest that 'Enduro' needs to be easy, just voicing my support for the idea that it doesn't need to be hard.

One bitter little corner of the web pouring scorn on wearing more than spray on hot pants and a pudding basin to race doesn't matter to the world. Don't you all have woodpiles to stroke?

^^ Genuinely one of the funniest posts I've seen on here in a while!

And given that perfectly servicable FF helmets from the likes of 661 are now available very cheaply, there's a certain irony about blokes with £3k+ carbon full sussers moaning about spending £60-£150 for a helmet.

One bitter little corner of the web pouring scorn on wearing more than spray on hot pants and a pudding basin to race doesn't matter to the world. Don't you all have woodpiles to stroke?

Love it! 😆

andyrm - Member

there's a certain irony about blokes with £3k+ carbon full sussers moaning about spending £60-£150 for a helmet.

i don't think there's many people moaning about the price, mostly about the idea of having to carry 2 helmets - 1x full face for the stages, 1x open-face for the climbs.

@andy most people don't own or ride in full face helmets. To the extent enduro is meant to be like a normal bike ride then a standard helmet should be sufficient as that's what the vast majority of us wear. The fact is this is all about the organisers liability insurance.

A week late but Northwind's post is "nailed on"

klumpy - Member

One bitter little corner of the web pouring scorn on wearing more than spray on hot pants and a pudding basin to race doesn't matter to the world. Don't you all have woodpiles to stroke?

It's funny but it's also 100% ass backwards... Because the only scorn in this thread has been for "not proper enduros" and people assuming that if you don't wear a full face you're either a moron, too tight, or only doing easy races and you should probably be doing XC. Even if they're a 2 time enduro world champion.

Meanwhile I've not seen anyone who's got a problem with other people wearing fullface helmets if they choose. I can understand it, it's just not right for me.

And it's hardly one corner of the web- the huge majority of racers in the UK have chosen not to wear full face helmets for racing.

I’d also like to see a more rounded set of skills tested in Enduro.

Timed technical climb stages, along with downhill and single track stages would all be good. Maybe you are great in a decent, maybe great in a climb. Results are usually overall & stage by stage so you would get to see your strong or weak points are.

In XC race you put a lot of cardio effort into the between-technical sections, it’s not so important to ace the technical stuff up or down. Plus you are generally already knackered when you hit technical stuff which can limit your ability to fully go at them. And when I say your, I mean mine. Lol.

Put the word Gravity in front of Enduro you pretty much know what to expect though. Maybe I’ll have to organise a Skills Enduro that me & my mates would want to ride in.

I’d also like to see a more rounded set of skills tested in Enduro.

Timed technical climb stages,

I think there should always be some climbing, for sure, and every one I've done has had at least some short linking climbs. Makes it more about the rider than the bike and is my only chance at gaining against everyone on their 160mm mince tanks. The first King/Queen one at glentress had a whole climb stage, my result on that was waaaay higher than the other stages, some of the guys on big bikes were pushing parts of it.

Personally, an uphill stage would make me not enter an enduro!

yet others would love it, choice is great.

I've done a couple that have had stages that are entirely climbing. That can **** off frankly! But a [i]bit[/i] of climbing inside a stage is commonplace- and I think that's a good thing. If nothing else, it means you can link trails up which'd be otherwise impossible, or add a bit more physicality into short stages with venues that lack altitude. Nothing quite like a scary technical section when you're breathing out of your arse.

Yup agreed on climbs. Timed climbs are for XC. I didn't actually enter an enduro in 2013 as I didn't like the idea of being "out of time" on a climb, then @scott from QECP explained that's not how it worked but I'd already missed their 2014 event.

What people are talking about here (I think) is offering something easier, but still recognisably an enduro. So gravity-fed, descent oriented, skills focused, just less hard

As if by magic...

http://enduro-mtb.com/en/news-scottish-enduro-series-announces-dates-for-2015/

The 2015 Series will see the introduction of an Enduro Lite class for riders new to the sport, enabling them to stick their toes in the water and try Enduro. Enduro Lite will involve shorter routes and miss some of the more technical stages.

I like that, good idea!

enduro is meant to be like a normal bike ride

But its not. The magazines jumped on board and said wow this is great its "like" riding with your mates, which in some respects it is, but the difference is that you are RACING, therefore you'll generally be pushing harder than you normally would, you'll more than likely be going quick enough that you'd probably do yourself some proper damage if you accidentally use your face as a brake.

Watch this from 3 mins to the end. She wouldn't have been getting up as quick without one.

Oops, too slow to edit, have another post

The first King/Queen of the Hill race had an interesting idea- 6 stages, of which the results of 5 counted, and 2 were climbs. So you could pour a load of energy into the climbs but you'd probably regret it later (combined, they went almost the entire height of glentress), or do what most people did and just write one off. And it has an effect on what people do with bikes, tyres etc which trades off into the downhill stages. There was no way you could win it on the climbs of course- though a good result on a climb stage had more impact than a good result on a short descent I suppose

All pretty interesting and introduced a new level of racecraft but I'm glad to see the back of it myself. Thing is though you wouldn't ride the day as a whole and say "that's #unduro because it had climb stages"- it was still definitely an enduro, and the day was mostly about the descending. (one stage was almost identical to an EWS stage)

If you're not pushing hard on the descents on a normal ride, what exactly ARE you doing? Riding downhill as fast as I can is the point of riding down a hill.

FWIW I never entered a UKGE as they are obnoxiously expensive. I entered some of the Innerleithen MTB Racing ones which were great, doing exactly the sorts of rides I normally do at Inners- some DH tracks, some of the trail centre. But I crashed loads, because I got a panicky race head on, and don't do them anymore. I did them all with an open face helmet as normal- balls to doing them in a full facer.

If you're not pushing hard on the descents on a normal ride, what exactly ARE you doing?

I didn't say i hung around looking at the scenery but in a race i think for most people the red mist comes down to some extent so you will probably push a bit harder, also there are more chance of making mistakes due to

panicky race head

Anyone would think wearing a FF is akin to putting your head up Satans Arsehole. 😀