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Cree uprated the XPG after it had been released for a while. From what I can tell this is retrospective so any XPG can be run at 1.5A. Bloody difficult to cool though!
Just ordered some boards with a 'hybrid' 1.5A setup. The new Zetex chip still hasn't made distribution so this is just my existing chip with an external transistor which should allow 1.5A operation. Hopefully a month...
One thing though, three XPGs run at 500mA will give out more light than one run at 1.5A - they lose efficiency as the input current rises. Costs increase though as you have to buy more LEDs and lenses...
Stuey
these are the newest R5s but what happened earlier this year was Cree upped the spec on their leds .
also backwards to earlier ones
the XPEs got rated @ 1000ma drive
and the XPGs went up to 1.5 amps
and a geeky guy with the right equipment has measured pretty much every led on the planet for lumens .
and also pushed them well past their rated limit .
an XPG @ 1.5 amps puts out 460 lumens as opposed to 351 @ 1 amp .
and max`s out at 542 @ 2.6 amps then I guess it died .
compared to the XPG R2 which gave 252 lumens @ 1 amp
305 lumens @ 1.5 apms
and maxed out at 326 lumens @ 2 amps
so quite a big difference
They don't say what bin but Cree on their product info page give 493 lumens at 1.5A for the XPG.
The R2 bin aren't much better than the old Seoul P4 based on that - they did something like 226 lumens at 1A.
Cree quote around 139 lumens for the highest bin cool white XPG at 350mA. Assuming 3.2V Vf this is 124 lm/W. At 1.5A I'd estimate the Vf would be 3.5V minimum so the efficiency drops to around 94 lm/W. Your 542lm at 2.6A is getting down below 60 lm/W so well past the point where the return doesn't justify the increase.
You need to consider the size of the XPG also and think just how you are going to get all that heat away from such a small package. The extra work in thermal design as well as the more expensive 1.5A drivers can mean you are better off adding an extra LED and sticking at 1A.
Thanks BlackcatTech / Troutie -
Soo ...if I'm driving 6 XP-Gs at 1 amp(say 20watts) I'm going to get a a rise of 40deg with air flow over the heat sink (2C/W) -
Which drivers have thermal protection for when your stationary?
(I may just wait for troutie to bring out a 1000lm all in one? - waits for Luminous to hint 😉
Trouties already got a 1100 lumen all in one had one for 18 months
and Wors on here has a prototype and been running it for a year .
[IMG] 
[/IMG]
[IMG] 
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It just needs some tweaking and a bit of weight loss but a fine light it is .
That's lovely - does the larger case manage heat better ?
'Any more prototypes you want testing ? 😀
If anyone wants to give this a go, I've got some bits lying around:
2 x Lumi Halogen cans
1 x Lumi HID can
4ah NiMH Lumi bottle battery with twin leads
Fast charger for the above
2 x triple XRE boards
1 x quad XRE board (damaged one of the solder points, might be salvageable but I'm not sure)
Optics for all the above
1 x 3W driver, 1 x 5W driver
Odds and sods of wiring looms
I have soldered one of the triple XREs and the 5W driver, but they can obviously be de-soldered.
Mail in profile if interested - I'd rather sell it as a job lot TBH.
I have a set of hope 2's - about 3 years old so not the latest and lower on power. The battery has failed.
A new one from hope appears to be about £60 so not worth replacing but radio controlled shops appear to have similar (7.2v, 3300mAh) for £22.00 ish. I would have to change the connector but thats do-able, anybody tried it or know if it would work.
Also has anybody upgraded the LED's to anything more powerful?
Many thanks
In addition to the helmet light that I plan to offer this season, I will have a light which contains its battery.
Fully sealed, just a couple of mm larger than a Maxx D.
Bar mount, QR, etc.
Frustratingly, I am still waiting for the Anodizer to finish them (should be the end of the week) before I build them up.
I intend update with info as both lights progress.
Ta.
[i]but radio controlled shops appear to have similar (7.2v, 3300mAh) for £22.00 ish. I would have to change the connector but thats do-able, anybody tried it or know if it would work.[/i]
Be very careful with RC stuff. RDH used them, but it may be better to look elswhere for your batteries, imo.
If you're wanting the full upgrade, then I'd suggest contacting Trout.
With a fairly well sorted workshop, and numerous conversions under his belt, hes the man to ask, imo.
On the other hand - some RC stuff uses proper balanced charging - to ensure even discharge and longer cell life- My £30 programmable B6 charger even has a temp probe that will shut down if cells get too hot.
Hi, just wondering if anyone offers a kit, or fitting service to convert the halogen Lumicycle lights to LED. I have some which are probably nearly 10 years old, the battery died years ago and I'v been using 3s1p lipo's (model aircraft ones with balancer to power them since. Due to it being only 11.1V i've lost some power so would probably need to purchase an appropriate battery in order to run LED's. Any idea what cost I would be looking at? or would I be better off purchasing a new purpose made light?
I'm in the process of converting one of mine. Here's what I've spent (all prices incl postage):
Triple XRE LEDs + optic from Cutter - £26
Driver from Black Cat - £6.50
Thermal paste, wire, switch and resistor from Maplin - £11.72
You'll also need a heatsink. I'm currently having some made and should have some spare which you can have for £7 delivered.
The new switch and resistor is optional, but gives two brightness levels.
If you need a new battery, try http://www.mtbbatteries.co.uk/ (forum member, I think he can provide them with Lumi compatible connectors)
I've been at it as well.....
[img] http://thumbnails22.imagebam.com/9410/d1c5ed94093248.jpg [/img][img] http://thumbnails27.imagebam.com/9410/dd8e3a94093274.jp g" target="_blank">
http://thumbnails22.imagebam.com/9410/d1c5ed94093248.jpg [/img][img] http://thumbnails27.imagebam.com/9410/dd8e3a94093274.jp g"/> [/img]
7 XPGs just managed to squeeze in with Ledil lenses. Baseplate is 8mm thick alu.
Battery pack is 8 Nokia mobile phone batteries from 7dayshop. The LEDs are run at below max power such that the can runs as warm as I dare run it. About 1200 Lumens.
Trout, I'm in when's it avalible?
and as for that 7 up lumi halogen can, blimey, thats quite a bit of heat management required there. But seriously nice work.
mark381 - Member
Hi, just wondering if anyone offers a kit, or fitting service to convert the halogen Lumicycle lights to LED.
x2 please.
PDW & Dave, thanks for the responses, just looked at the cutter website and convinced me i'm an electronics numpty, as there were so many options. I understand that the lumicycle halogen cans are 33mm, so i need a triple XPE and optic to fit this size. Also if I go the LED route will I need to increase the battery size from the current 13.2V to 14.8V to optimise the output?
Mark
I am doing one for a stw forum member with a 20 mm triple led and make a small heatsink to go inside.
Might get on it this sunday I have a few drivers / led boards / and optics available just not a lot of time at the moment .
for a triple you will be able to use your battery no problem .
Have you seen these guys triple with driver [url= http://www.lux-rc.com/view.php?p=content/showcase/light_engines ]lux-rc -not cheap but interesting[/url] Whats the best optic solution for throw vs flood -25deg?
Trout, thanks for responding, what is the cost per can for the conversion? I currently have two Lumicycle halogen cans, one currently with a 12w spot and the other a 20w flood. As for the battery, I need a new one so either a 13.2v NimH,or 14.8v LiPo is possible, I have a multi charger capable of charging just about anything so would use whatever gives optimum performance. Dependent on cost for the conversion I may just bite the bullet and go for a new complete system.
Stuey
Yes have been watching those from early days brill idea but a tad expensive .
optic wise the best is the narrowest with XPEs for throw or XPGs for a floodier beam .
Mark
£50 ish as per woodys post so may not be all that cost efective
High guys!
I've been reading this thread and meaning to have a go at this ever since the beginning of the year. Now the nights are drawing in 🙁 this is something I want to have a go at.
Am I thinking right that the parts you need are:
3 x XRE LED's (from Cutter, nowhere in uk you can get them?)
1 x XRE mounting board (from Cutter)
1 x Optic for MR11 Kits (from Cutter)
1 x LED Driver (where can you get these from now?)
1 x Heatsink (where can you get these from now as well?)
I'm also going to have a go at the dimmable version so will get the switch from Maplins. I think my switches are worn out anyway as the sometimes don't work.
Cheers for any help!
Dave
I will be listing more drivers once the 'group order' (see DIY light thread) is complete. However, I'm also hoping to get this released soon:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/50439158@N02/4631185669/
which assembles with the LEDs to give:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/50439158@N02/4631185715/in/photostream/
I've also just found that the HID lumicycle can is larger than the halogen so I'm looking at getting a heatsink made for that.
My feeling at the moment is that the halogen can doesn't have enough metal to support cooling three LEDs at 1A. I'm thinking either 780mA or 830mA as the standard option for this with a 1A driver for the HID can which has more meat to it.
The above driver will come with heatsink, switch and power socket. I'm currently thinking something like £12 including P&P. I need to get stock of the heatsinks though before I start selling properly. I'm also considering buying some LEDs and optics in and selling as a complete package that will just drop in to the case. Not sure on price as I'll have to work out prices and factor in the risk of being hit by customs charges.
3 x XRE LED's (from Cutter, nowhere in uk you can get them?)1 x XRE mounting board (from Cutter)
No - you buy a pre-assembled board with the LEDs on it from Cutter.
1 x Heatsink (where can you get these from now as well?)
I've got some: [url] http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/fs-heatsinks-for-lumicycle-led-conversion [/url]
Not sure if this required a new post, so forgive me for bumping this one.
I was reading through another light thread on MTBR regarding a guys light housing project getting back off the ground...looked good TBH...3 LED optic was suggested.
So, with two arrays (he had a unit with x2 20mm holes) of 3 XPE LEDs would they be connected in paralles, series or a combination or just series??
It is better to connect in series but with that many LEDs there are other concerns. If you connect in parallel, unless the LEDs are perfectly matched the current won't share exactly. Also, in parallel you would need a driver that can output twice the current - two perfect LEDs in parallel will split the current in half between them. Therefore, to drive each at say 1A you would need a 2A driver. This is the problem - unless they are identical one will get more current than the other and you either risk overloading it or you have to run them below their rated current to let this happen safely.
The problem with series connection is that the voltage adds up so six XPEs in series would be about 21V. This means you'd either need a 24V minimum battery or a boost driver which tend to be more expensive.
One option would be to use two drivers and run the two sets of three independently. You could then have different lenses on them for spot and flood and have independent control of the light levels of each.
Blackcat, I would be interested in a kit, would this work off my new 14.4v battery from Smudge?
My feeling at the moment is that the halogen can doesn't have enough metal to support cooling three LEDs at 1A. I'm thinking either 780mA or 830mA as the standard option for this with a 1A driver for the HID can which has more meat to it.The above driver will come with heatsink, switch and power socket. I'm currently thinking something like £12 including P&P. I need to get stock of the heatsinks though before I start selling properly. I'm also considering buying some LEDs and optics in and selling as a complete package that will just drop in to the case. Not sure on price as I'll have to work out prices and factor in the risk of being hit by customs charges.
BCT - this sounds ideal. Preferably at 830mA! 🙂
Black Cat, I would be very interested in the kit as well, what sort of price would it be?
Me too, be very interested I have twin halogen set gathering dust, it would be great to put them to use
I have tried emailing blackcat about the kit and no reply - I guess he's busy?
Blackcat have you got any of those new drivers like in the piccie yet. and is so what amps are they running at?
The drivers i'm on about are the trimmed ones, your last ones that I used in the conversion when I started this thread off were a little tight.
Sorry for not getting back to people, this week has been a little mad!
I'm currently building a batch of the lumicycle-specific drivers. I'm aiming to standardise at 770mA output but I could increase this up to 1A as the circuit is basically the same as my standard driver.
The main problem I'm having is getting heatsinks turned. I've managed to get a few done at work as foreigners but that doesn't seem to be working out for more than a couple at a time.
The other issue is that the switch I was going to supply has gone on back order until December. I think I've found another one which the standard lumicycle boot will fit though.
The intention is to supply driver, heatsink, switch and DC power socket all wired up as a kit so you just need to supply LEDs and optic. At the moment I'm looking at an 'ebay price' of £12 per kit but that depends on supply of heatsinks, if I have to get them made out it may end up being more expensive.
If people can supply their own heatsinks and just want the driver then that would be £6 or £8 with switch and socket.
Off-ebay prices by negotiation, typically 10% off for singles. P&P £1 per order.
Only one thing - I'm off work next week and my test kit for the drivers is there. I've tried to rig something up for home but I'm not sure how well it will work. If I can't properly test them here then it will be a week before they are ready.
Put me down for a kit once you have it all sorted please.
BlackCatTech
I would also be interested in the Lumi kit. Particularly if it had optics and LED's in it, minimum of two sets, me and my son.
Medium optic to start with and then convert the other cans to narrow at a later stage with narrow for the helmet.
Paul.
Blackcat - If you had a std kit with optics - or a choice of say 2 or 3 kinds you could probably make a bit of a profit as you would be saving us the hassle of multiple orders and the risk of getting it wrong as most of us are plebs when it comes to the intricacies of LED, Lenses, Heat sinks, looms and drivers. I'd happily pay up to £40 for a kit if I could reselect my lumi cans? Anyway thats for all you have done so far and I'm in for a "kit" and of course there is no rush 🙂 Thanks BTW 🙂
The other issue is that the switch I was going to supply has gone on back order until December. I think I've found another one which the standard lumicycle boot will fit though.
How about the Maplin switch?? Or is that pricier than something you can get hold of?
I used it for my first can conversion & it seems fine.
I've also just found that the HID lumicycle can is larger than the halogen so I'm looking at getting a heatsink made for that.
I converted my HID thanks to Chucky/vortexracing.
[url= http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/step-by-step-guide-no-2-converting-a-lumicycle-hid-into-a-led-with-piccies?replies=18#post-1135253 ]HID can LED conversion.[/url]
I've done this conversion about 6 months ago, brilliant light, really impressive.
Seems to have developed a wee fault though, when I turn the light on initially, it's about half power, then after a while the thing blasts out light the way it should?!. This can be after 2 minutes or half an hour, and doesn't seem to be linked to the heat of the unit either, any ideas any of you light guru's?
Good work - I did suggest this to lumicycle about three years ago. Pillocks!
Hi there, please forgive me if this has been asked/answered already.
My battery pack is 3.7v @ 7.5Ah, would this be a suitable power source?
silly technology and browser not refreshing, despite trying ...
erm.....I am far from knowledgeable about these kind of things, but I think you need nearer 13-14v for the Black Cat drivers most people are using for this conversion......
You can get drivers that 'boost' the battery voltage from places like Cutter though, I think that'll probably work.
Hummm ... time to have a butchers at the boost drivers then. thanks stumpy (it seems about right from memory)
jontawn - there are a number of types of LED drivers, mine need an input voltage higher than the output (known as 'buck' drivers). To step up from 3.7V to run three LEDs you need a boost driver. Be aware that this is quite a large step up - driving three LEDs at 1A your driver will be drawing about 3A from the battery. I've been looking at boost drivers and ones able to handle this power aren't common.
I've been prompted to post details of the heatsink I need on here - I've uploaded a screen grab of the sketch I did:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/50439158@N02/5163870664/
If anyone knows of a machinist who could do a batch of these at a reasonable price, please let me know!
tick 🙂
I finally got the parts from Cutter to complete the conversion of my two old Lumi halogens, and get some beam shots together for a comparison with my Lumi LED3.
LED3 (wide angle) on full power:
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Converted triple XPG, medium optic, 670mA driver full power:
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Converted triple XPG, medium optic, 670mA driver "half" power using 150k pull-down resistor:
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Converted triple XPG, spot optic, 670mA driver full power:
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Converted triple XPG, spot optic, 670mA driver "half" power using 200k pull-down resistor:
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As you can see, there's nothing to choose between the LED3 and the wider angle converted XPG.
Both converted lights have a 3-way switch for off/full power/half power. Although a 200k resistor on Black Cat's driver should give half power, it felt brighter than this, so I switched to using a 150k resistor on the second light which dims it more convincingly.
Just a couple of questions in general about heat transfer on LED light.
Is it better to solder heat sinks to the casing of the light rather than use Arctic paste or similar? ie. is solder a better conductor of heat?
I read somewhere that a painted surface would radiate heat better than an unpainted surface. Talking about aluminium body here. If so, what type of paint?
Solder probably is a better conductor of heat but you'll need a pretty big iron to manage that as you've got a big lump of metal to heat up before the solder will 'wet'. Also you couldn't do it with the LEDs attached to the heatsink as you'd burn them.
Not sure about painted vs unpainted, I know that the solder resist on PCBs does slightly inhibit heat transfer so I'd assume the same applies to paint unless it is some special paint.
@ plugp7
painted v unpainted more relates to radiators, you can not solder to a painted surface.
You will not be able to solder the heatsink to the case of the light without running the risk of the light deforming ,you would need that much heat. Good artic paste has really good transfer properties, you should be fine with that.
What heatsink are you using in your build. Trout has designed a updated heatsink assembly that can be found in the following tread
http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/lumicycle-halogen-led-kit-vote
another option is to do as some people have and put a heatsink for a rc car motor size 540 onto the outside of the lamps to help aid cooling see the following thread for what i mean.
If this is secured with a couple of small screws through the case into the bulk of the heatsink and artic paste is applied between the heatsink and case you will be doing pretty much evrything you can to keep it all nice and cool.
Lastly when you are out on your bike the movement of air past the light will be what keeps it coolest when stationary it will get warmer. When you test it i would not get too concerned if it gets quite warm when you come to use it in reality you will keep it cooler.
Thanks you guys. The questions do not relate to the Lumicycle conversion but more in general as I'm building a set from scratch with some leds I have from a previous project.
Thanks for comments.
I've been running the triple XRE conversion for over 6 months with no problems with cooling (though the can does get hot when still). I left the lights on when the bike was parked recently and the optic melted and cracked before the battery drainied but it all still works.
I'm thinking of now ordering the quad XRE with the optic as they're on special offer with Cutter at the mo. Has anyone converted with the quad and if so what's the result in terms of brightness and heatsink issues?
[b]squeekybrakes[/b]
you may want to have a look at this thread
http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/lumicycle-halogen-led-kit-vote
i just rebuilt my lumicycle light with the re-designed heatsink led package, this uses XPE or XPG Led's. My lights seem fantastically bright so may be an upgrade over your previous mod.