jealous penis replacement engineer who is genetically unable
😀
The audax has plenty of clearance. I run 23mms but have successfully run 25mms with no problems.
I was waiting for the genitalia comments, and it took nearly 3 pages! Very slow out there!
I know someone who has the TT bike...
I could have a shave off the down tube......
Lovely piece of work....
Sorry mate - that is not enough clearance, certainly at the seatstay - and anyone who has designed that rear triangle with guards in mind needs a slap. Having said that, are they held on with p-clips there, so maybe its wasn't designed it be so.
Devs: You are very naughty. You nearly made me wake the baby LOLing at your post.
Why the anger? It's just a bloke who wants to spend too much money on (some) unattractive bikes and show them off all sparkly clean on the internet.
Yeah, I'm new around here... have only been here for 5-6 years(!)
That is indeed a rather special collection of bikes, I'm envious, though perhaps not for the bikes themselves. Some do look a little 'special' but each to his own. If I had that kind of brass I'd probably choose bikes of different materials and styles and then spend a big wedge on the 'engine' - you can get a year's worth of professional coaching for the cost of one of those frames.
Anyway on the point of my post, I'd be interested to see how you get on with XX, I have spent the last few rides on a set that has seen decent mileage and wasn't too impressed to be honest. On my first ride on it a rock took out the little closing tab on the carbon cage of the rear mech behind the lower jockey wheel and the chain came off. New Mech? £250 thankyouplease. Second ride; the adjustment bolt on the LH shifter lever came loose and the upshift lever span round out of reach. All throughout the shifting has been poor at the rear and seems to be very sensitive to being slightly out of adjustment or having crap in the cables, getting a knock or just being full of muck. Everything about mountain biking in the uk really. Having said all that shifting at the front has been faultless whatever the ratio combo.
undeniably a nice collection of bikes.
but describing them as a collection is a disfavour to the owner.
stamps get collected. bikes get ridden.
perhaps a bit of mud on them and less of the uber clean ****meister photos would make them more appealing to the STW massive.
oh and less we forget the owner must be of svelte build and of cycle hall of fame racing pedigree.
Mudsux. I could post some less uber clean ****meister photos, but every now again, I do clean my bikes. Keeps them running nicer I find and creates much less domestic tension around cow shit and mud in the house. This doesn't mean to say they don't get ridden or dirty, just that I like to make sure they are clean before having their photo taken.
Dasilva. I'll keep you posted about the longevity. I got a rolicking earlier in the thread for trying to justify thumbies over more complicated triggers, and your experience tends to support my view, but we'll see with time. XX is lightweight and hi tech, but unfortunately that doesn't make it less prone to trail damage.
The front shifting is the real revelation. Everything else works only as well as the current crop of gear. The only real need for 10 speeds is to run 2 at the front and still have a wide and useful range of gears. I guess part of the beauty of the front shifting is that the chain only ever has to shift between 2 rings. The inner ring is just bog standard with no ramps or pins at all. It's the outer ring that has all of the gubbins. Also the chainrings are noticably thicker and stiffer which a triple set up wouldn't accomodate without a very wide Q factor. As it stands, the narrow Q factor is really great and a noticeable improvement over a triple.
aracer. Difficult to see from the picture, but the TT bike is much shorter. People often think that TT = bum in the air and head down. The position is more about a balance of aero and power. As a number of people have commented, I am not a small guy, so resistance to the wind is less important to me that the ability to turn my legs smoothly. I would never compare my results to Indurain, but my position is more Indurain than Boardman!
Shorter horizontally? Of course, that would be normal. Looking at your bike, I reckon you're being rather unfair on Indurain! The thing is even if you're not a short guy, resistance to wind is still hugely important - the whole point of a TT bike (and that "aero" downtube has a miniscule effect on aero relative to body position). The balance between getting aero and generating power doesn't change based on your size.
My point though which you seem to have slightly missed is that if that stem is the same height as on your road bike (or even reasonably close to that) then you're definitely not getting the benefit of a TT bike you should be. Using aero bars with a stem that height your body position will actually be higher than when using the drops on your road bike - I'm assuming you are comfortable in the drops on your road bike, given they're really not that low. What's more the whole point of that saddle forward position you do have on the TT bike is that it allows you to rotate your whole body forward and get your back flatter whilst maintaining the same hip angle. Unless your photos are very deceptive then you must have less hip angle on the TT bike, which is really wasting the opportunity to get more aero if you can get power down with that position on the road bike. Seems a shame not to get a sorted TT position when spending all that money on a custom bike.
Nice bikes 🙂
So, 1st ride feedback. Not as muddy as I expected after the recent weather but it seemed to perform well enough.
1) Front shifting. Amazing! If you go XX and don't use the double chainset, you are missing out on the main benefit. Even under pressure I couldn't make it shift clumsily. This is all down to the outer ring. Really all that the front mech does is rather crudely knock the chain from one ring to another. The chainring really dictates whether or not it is smooth. The outer ring is noticeably thicker and stiffer than a standard ring and sits really close to the crank spider arms. Just hope it lasts well (remember the last generation of XTR middle rings?!). I am running one set up with a Red road mech, and one with XX and the shifting is as good with either. The XX mech is for the first time better than XTR. Easier to adjust, more accessible, noticeably stiffer. And you can run all 10 rear gears from either front ring without any rub.
2) Chainset. Made of butter! Never ran a carbon chainset before off road, and now I know why! The arms mark really easily and seem quite 'soft' compared to an alloy XTR chainset. But you have to offset that front shifting so maybe the compromise will be worth it. The ceramic BB is certainly smooth, and the very narrow Q factor is a revelation. I used to switch between road and off road and notice the wider leg position, but not now. The crank arms run very close to the stays (>5mm) but wider Q factor cranks are available if it causes a problem (I think).
3) Cassette. Smooth shifting and unlike Red, very quiet. Really mud friendly as everything just falls through it. I run King hubs which have quite a soft alloy freehub body. Fitting the cassette was a bit difficult as it runs really tight tolerances and any tiny nicks left behind from a previous XTR cassette make fitting it quite tight. All of the torque now transfers through the big ring (the only one that touches the freehub body), so if this really digs in it might be a nightmare to remove. Mind you, with the exception of the outer ring, the rest is made of steel, and at that price I hopefully shouldn't be doing that too often!
4) Rear mech. Seems just as delicate as XO, but very light, stiff and smooth shifting. Whoever designed the cable routing never had to fit one though! You can't see the cable cinch bolt to tighten it as it is hidden round the back on the inside of the mech. When you do you need 3 hands to simultaneously tension the cable, keep the T25 tool in the bolt and keep the cable routed through the narrow groove. And then try to get anything into that tight inaccessible space to crimp on an end!
5) Thumbies. Loving them! Crisp shifting, retro look (if you like that kind of thing) and so much cheaper than XX shifters. And should you need to you can trim the front mech (but see comments on front shifting as this shouldn't be needed).
So that's it. Can't comment on the brakes as I love my Marta SLs so didn't change them. As an overall, XX has really moved on front shifting and 10 speeds means that a double up front really makes sense. Didn't run out of gears up Leith Hill, but had plenty for the way back down, and the gears in between are all useable and well spaced. The rest is nice but no better shifting or looking than XX. SRAM still don't seem to have overcome the strength/solidity feeling issue that they have always had vs XTR. Despite its race pedigree, XTR always felt more solid and tough than XO and the same is true with XX. The chainset is particularly disappointing in this respect vs XTR. If 2011 XTR sorts out the front shifting to the same extent as SRAM have done, it will possibly be the superior groupset, but that's purely speculation. For the moment, despite a couple of niggles, XX is the clear winner.
Thanks for the opinions on XX SR.
Amazing bikes....always wanted a sola , but seven have gone and screwed up the aesthetic with a bendy downtube now 😕 , and as I am only an e-rider, aesthetics are paramount 8)
Yep, totally agree on the curvy downtube. They won't even make you a straight one anymore. They claim that it is due to the high stack height of fork adjusters these days. I have SIDs with a lock out on the top and clears my down tube easily.
Haven't actually seen one in the flesh though, and since mine do genuinely look better in reality than they do in the pictures, maybe I am judging it harshly.
I worry if you thought you would run out of gears on Leith Hill! You look to be running reasonably small chainrings, inicdentally which cassette are you running?
Ive got the 42/28 rings with an 11-36, and frankly in big big it still sounds a bit rough! Not sommat I'd want to do too often. Totally agree on the front shifting though, very quick, and frankly I think you're missing out with the thumbies, as the lever throw on the XX triggers is very impressive on the LH shifter.
Be interesting to see what the 10 speed XTR is like, I guess the cassettes will be marginally more affordable, surprised they're not doing an Ultegra level one in 11-32 or sommat now, catch all the folk that want to run XX on a bit of a budget!
As an aside, you may want to search on daftpunk's threads on bikemagic if you think Seven are that good at getting geometry right, I certainly wouldn't buy one! Not to mention how godawful some of those look!
Very interesting comments regarding the noise levels of the cassette ( vs Red),Solarider.
I notice you're running a Reynolds fork on the CX bike, how do you find it for canti-judder?. I have one as well and have never managed to get it down to acceptable levels- ended up using a mini-V to cure it.
Nice lot of bikes though, but don't you ever, well, cast a 'what if' glance at bikes from other manufacturers 🙂
Hmm. I read daftpunk's nightmare a while back. They really screwed that one up, but I wouldn't change mine for any other bike. I would like to think that they just had a bad day with his, as I have always been pleasantly surprised with their geometry recommendations. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I take a certain pride in the esoteric looks! I don't want just another jelly mould bike, hence some of them do look slightly mad, but despite daftpunk's unfortunate experience, they all fit me like a glove.
I am running the 39/26 with 11/36. Comparing the gear inches to my old XTR triple, the smallest gear is only marginally higher than the 22/32 and the largest gear is only marginally lower than the 44/12 so the range at its extremities is almost the same. With less duplication and cross over of gears 2 x 10 is almost identical to 3 x 9 in useability. I do prefer to spin more than push big gears, so this set up suits me well. If I am on trails that need bigger gears, I generally take the CX, but the XX range is wide enough for most off road situations.
I do think that the XX triggers look perfectly OK, but the choice of thumbies is an 'each to his own' choice.
The forks are great. I think it depends somewhat on the combination of the canti studs and the brakes that you use. If you get a slightly loose fit between brake and stud, you will get judder with any fork. I run very old school XT high profile cantis and have no problem, but I know people who run the same forks with different brakes, and the same brakes with different forks who do experience judder. It is a bit pot luck really. Having said that, I have heard good things about Alpha Q forks consistently.
The Red cassette is noisy because it is basically a hollow sound box. It is fully enclosed, unlike the XX which is completely open.
And yes, I do often cast admiring glances elsewhere. The things is, once you know what you want from a bike, I just love the 'bike for life' mentality of a quality titanium frame. They fit well, they ride great, they don't really fatigue, they have a lifetime warranty so why change? The hardtail is 8 years old. The winter bike is 7 years old. They just don't date. And whilst they may never be the most up to date swoopy, curvy carbon infused specimens, they are classic. I have admired lots of other designs and materials, but most of them have come and gone in the time I have had these. The only exception is the Duo FS, as Seven are about to move over to a more conventional looking DW design from the Maverick rear end. A shame, as despite the looks, it rides like a dream. I also have a Colnago road bike and a Rocky Mountain hardtail (and a Brompton but that doesn't really count here!). Both really nice, but nothing to compare.
I just re-read daftpunk's experience here http://www.bikemagic.com/gear-news/daftpunks-seven-sola/5952.html. Seems like the fault was that of the inexperienced bike shop that measured him in the first place. Seven produced a perfectly fitting bike, but based on incorrect measurements. The fact that his LBS 'became a Seven dealer' for his bike pinpoints the importance of an experienced fitter, and an experienced Seven dealer in the process. The guys at Sigma Sport really know what they are doing and despite the comments, I spent 3 hours having the TT fitted exactly and it fits like a glove. I can't recommend them enough.
In fairness, Seven's part in daftpunk's experience was a good one. The let down was the German distributor and his LBS. Once Rob Vandermark got involved, it all seemed to be sorted pretty well. Experiences like daftpunk's become noteworty because it is all the more fascinating when something rare or exotic (or expensive) goes wrong. The people who buy Sevens generally have ridden a lot and know exactly what they want (which is not to say that people who choose other brands are not of course). They therefore tend to be more critical, not least of which because of the price they have just paid! Other than daftpunk, which thankfully had a happy ending, you don't hear too many complaints after the experience. I wouldn't have repeated the experience 7 times if I had been disappointed. This is my on money I am spending!
Why the anger? It's just a bloke who wants to spend too much money on (some) unattractive bikes and show them off all sparkly clean on the internet.
No anger here, just an attempt to light-heartedly point out that the FS is about as attractive as leprosy.
That's not fair to lepers! Take it back now! I have long since taken pride in owning one of the ugliest bikes in existence and won't have its reputation sullied here!
Surely there isn't an XTR 12-32 cassette, just 11-32, 11-34 or 12-34, so you must've lost some top end. Agree it doesn't really matter, but you may want to rethink that. Surprised you've gone for those rings too, I'd have thought the 28/42 would be more versatile.
Thought about it, but as I said, I like to spin more than mash gears. So far, it's all good. Don't feel undergeared at either end of the scale. Time will tell. I changed my mind so many times between ordering and it arriving, but in the end I had to go with my 1st choice.
With a 26/36 bottom gear I'd be worried if you felt over geared, that's not really much use!
Lovely collection there..I only have one area of feedback :
For Fudge sake use silver seatposts
That is all
Yes agree with the silver (if not ti...) seatposts. And get some proper handlebars for the FS, not some you've pinched off an Apollo kids bike!
Going to disagree about polished silver alloy posts- unless they've been anodised a slightly darker tint they dont look any more of a match for a Ti stem than black.
BTW is that a THM Clavicula chainset on the Crosser?, dont get me wrong I like nice stuff too, but isn't that a bit wasted on a CX bike, I'd be putting that on a roadbike where I'd notice it more!
So it is, excellent choice of chainset! Agree though, of all the bikes to put it on, that seems the most daft!
I wouldnt thank you for any of them. Or more accurately they would be sold to get something better.
Why do you have all those bikes?
HT frame looks V nice!
Solarider-
How have you got the Red front mech on the full suspension bike to run with a top pull cable?
Have you got one of those 'funny wheel' things at the bottom of the seat tube, so the cable goes down then back up?
If not, can you get Red mechs in top pull? Where did you get it from if you did, as i haven't come across any?
Cheers
Josh...
Yes it's a Clavicula, and yes, it's bonkers on a CX bike. It's a compact, and was originally on my road bike as you suggest. But (and this will really surprise njee20 given his low gearing fixation!) when I recently changed to Super Record on the road I wanted to go back to standard sized chainrings as I sometimes felt that I was running out of gears. I tried to sell it for a giveaway price, but no takers, so it went on the CX bike instead where the compact gears make more sense. Still happy to sell if there are any takers!
The red front mech is a standard bottom pull version. They do indeed only make bottom pull. There is a cable return integrated in the Maverick Monolink suspension system. It is designed for a road mech mounted on what they call a D Link (the sticky-uppy bit in the pictures) or a multi pull e front mech. The CX bike does have one of those return 'funny wheel' things to return the top tube routed cable.
Dont really blame you then, On a road bike I'd rather have a lightish chainset with decent gears than the lightest with compact gears.
Still hurts to think of that getting ground up covered in mud and grit though!.
Me like! Even the FS would get some abuse around here...a fab collection.
How much would you sell the Clavicula for then? Email in profile...
I wouldn't say I have a fixation with low gearing, I just found your statement about not running out of gears around Leith Hill a bit odd considering you've gone for the lowest possible ratios on XX! Maybe I'm thinking differently as I've run a double for 4 years, and my 28/42 with 11-36 is the lowest combination I've had in that time!
so now you've got 7 of them are you going to stop?
Good on you, although some of them not my cup of tea,
I'm guessing a "giveaway price" for a Clavicula may not be what most people would think of as cheap for a chainset - otherwise I might be interested!
I'm still a little confused by the reason for getting rid though - do you really find yourself running out of gears with 50/11 (that being almost 36mph at 100rpm, and higher than 53/12)? I'd have though that not having 11-speed chainrings when getting SR was a more valid reason.
Actually £350 posted including brand new Tune chainrings, Tune bolts and bottom bracket. They are absolutely immaculate. Cost over £850 complete new. So, yes, I guess expensive by many standards, but good value compared to the new price.
Despite the 11 tooth casette on XX, I am not a fan of 11 tooth at the back. Never seems to run as nicely as a 12. I found I never used to use the bigger rear cogs with a compact front, so that's the reason. Actually, 10 speed and 11 speed rings are completely compatible. The inner width of the teeth are identical. The chain is thinner, but this is because of the outer plates, not the spacing between the inner plates.
I guess the ratios debate is purely about personal preference. Being in the fortunate position of having a bike for every occasion, I use my mountain bikes when riding steep up and downy stuff, hence my choice of gears. I'll take the CX or SS 29er if its less demanding.
About the pricing I expected - I might just about convince myself to get one for the MTB at that price, but certainly can't justify one for the roadie which is built to a budget (and already too light for the UCI)!
Mountain bike for steep climbs on tarmac? With that stable I'd have thought there was room for 2 road bikes - one with standard gearing, one with compact 😉
Not that I'm about to get a new chainset or even rings if and when I go to 11, but I understood the spacing between rings to be a little narrower so the chain didn't drop between them.
aracer. Don't believe the hype. Do believe a pair of calibrated measuring calipers! The spacing between the rings is identical. Strip off the rings and the 10 and 11 speed chainsets are identical. The chainrings are also identical in dimensions, although the new coating is much improved over the old one. The rear cogs are are slightly thinner and the outer dimensions of the chain are also thinner to fit in between tighter spaced cogs at the back. But the inner dimensions of the chain are identical between the 2. Should you go 11 speed, you really don't need to change the chainset, chainrings or front mech other than for the sake of completeness.
Somebody's either got calipers that measure differently to yours, or a different chainset, solarider - I was going on information from weight weenies http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=55109&start=5
As I said though, I'll carry on using the 10-speed chainset and rings I've got if I do upgrade - it's not like it's cheap just to get the Ergos, RD, cassette and chain!
I challenge any chain to flinch at a 0.1mm difference in chainrings width. Now that 11 speed has been out for a year or so, there is enough strong evidence out there that 10 speed chainsets work absolutely fine with 11 speed. Depends whether you have an older 10 speed chainset or a newer one whether you can just bolt on 11 sped chainrings if you wanted to go that way. Mind you, have you seen the price of Campagnolo chainrings these days?!!
I agree the 0.1mm difference is completely insignificant - arguably the 0.6mm difference in spacing could make a difference though. I've got the very latest 10-speed chainset, since I got my Campag a few months before the first rumours about 11 😥 - if I really felt the need would wait for TA to come out with an 11-speed ring though rather than pay Campag prices.
p.s. apologies for rather hijacking the thread!
That's OK. Have a look at what 0.6mm looks like in reality. Even that isn't enough for a chain to fall between. I guess using everything 11 speed together is optimal, but on a budget 10 speed works just fine. Mind you, the only justifiable reason for changing is the comfort of the new shaped ergos. They are a revelation compared to the older ones, and unfortunately I understand that the new Centraur (which is 10 speed in the new shape) isn't backwards compatible, but I might be wrong.
I don't think anything has changed with 10-speed, so the Centaur is compatible. If it wasn't for the lever shape change I don't think I'd even consider it, but that's just another excuse, and if I do upgrade it will be to 11. Remember I have compact and use it - would be nice to have the extra cog so I could get 11-25 without losing the 16 (currently using 12-25 as with current fitness I need the 25, but really miss the 11 for the downs) That or 11-23 with an 18 for when I'm fitter, given I do a lot of riding around the 17 and 19 cogs.
solarider
Beautiful collection of bikes - really admire your dedication to one brand; part of the joy of cycling for me is to constantly try and experience different manufacturer's visions of the perfect bike so I'm constantly changing and - unlike yourself - I don't hold onto bikes. Don't think people realise (and its a great trick of ti) that you've obviously built this collection over many years. I'm interested in your Clavicula's for my current road bike (ti of course!) and would really appreciate an email (via my profile) as I don't know how to contact you? Thanks Ben
Ben YGM
lovely bikes Solarider! Interested in running thumbies with Sram 10speed too! How do the Sram ones work? I thought the Sram road stuff had a slight difference in cable pull? MTB stuff is 1:1 .Was told the road stuff more like 1.2:1?
Thanx Max
XX has a 1:1 cable pull, exactly the same as SRAM Red and Force. You are right that the other MTB groupsets have different cable pull, but XX is not just 'bodge it and hope' compatible, it is 100% totally compatible. The thumbies work fantastically well. Highly recommended. You can use any of the bar end mounted levers. The TT500 (alloy), TT900 (carbon - the ones I am running a bit more bling), or the super expensive return to centre versions. I would advise against these as their natural return position is actually a little awkward to reach and interferes with your hand position when mounted on the Pauls mounts. Much cheaper and lighter than XX, and something a bit different. And at the risk of repeating what has been a controversial statement to some, in the event of bent mech or accident on the trail you can always switch them to friction mode. I gave both bikes a good thrashing off road last weekend and it all worked beautifully. Have been bed-ridden since and very frustrated! You can also run the SRAM road double tap under bar shifters. Check out the Fudge cycles website. They have a number of compatible options at a number of price points. Really good prices, really helpful (ask for Andrew) and they have/had good stock from the first drop delivery. It's where I got mine.
You mentioned 'dometic tension' further up the thread.
Out of interest how do you justify all these bikes to your other half?
I'm struggling with 3 bikes!