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A year ago now I got my shiny new bike, equipped with a Rohloff speedhub. It was a bit of a leap of faith as I'd not spent more than a few minutes riding one beforehand.
A few thoughts for anyone who's interested -
They're really noisy aren't they? Well, actually, no it really isn't. Even from new it wasn't so much a noise as a slight vibe off it. Imagine someone lightly dragging a rough file across the seatstay as you ride, that's how I'd best describe it. This muted within a few hundred miles though.
It's now quieter than my other XX1 equipped bike, the chain on that makes a noise coming off the NW ring which is noisier than the roly.
There is a noise of the roly in lower gears, but it's a nice Germanic whirr which I quite like.
It's draggy. I honestly don't think it is. My view is it's largely psychosomatic due to the whirring mentioned above.
I LOVE being able to change gear without pedalling while on nadgery terrain. A bit like dropper posts, it's hard to appreciate how handy this is until you experience it for a while.
I don't love the slow pickup so much. It doesn't really trouble me too much, but it is noticeably slow.
After one year, it's still on the same chain (still under 75% wear), same alloy 26T front ring and 13T rear, and cables. Hasn't been touched apart from oiling the chain. I suppose this is largely due to the straight chainline and being able to use nice sticky oil which would clog up a cassete and jockey wheels. This I like very muchly 🙂 The hub itself has had one oil change, afew minutes work.
The ability to keep ploughing on through claggy mud and icy crap is also handy sometimes.
The concentration of weight in the back wheel may be an issue on a carbon XC bike, but on a fatty like mine it's not an issue.
I know there are documented issues occasionally with water ingress. This seems to be only with prolonged full immersion. Easily avoided by,
A - don't put it underwater.
B - If you do, give it a flush and oil change when you get home. Simple.
Mine is still a pup in Rohloff terms, it's still loosening up and getting better all the time. I'd recommend it heartily!
The bike in question
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I fancy a 'hoff and have a frame that would take it, but am frightened by (Mrs RBIT finding out about) the expense.
Sell it as a long term investment, which it is really. It may take a while to pay itself back, but it will.
I had my first ride on my new rohloff equipped bike yesterday. I had to get another after regretting selling my old hoff
Any excuse to post a pic as i love it 🙂
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Firestarter - that looks amazing. Be interested to know what kind of riding you use it for and how it rides. Rohloff and dynamo for drag at both ends? 😉
and how was it firestarter?
I've had mine years but not fond of it on my mtb maybe it's the weight not sure. It now only sees service in the worst of winter. And for that it's perfect but a waste to see it unused so think it going back on the comuter bike
Keeps working though and apart from the odd cable and oil very easy to live with
One issue that has come up on the ones I know of is a slight oil weeping that covers the disc, thus contaminating the pads.
Any issues with your's?
More cash it was only the first ride out but its gonna be used for all my riding barring commute and school run. Yesterday was mainly roads with a couple of bridleways.
Drag wise tbh i didnt notice really as im so unfit after selling my bikes to buy this and waiting 3 months for it. Plus only bike i have to compare it with is a 20 year old singlespeed kona
Leffe its lovely 🙂
First thing is to put away the chain gauge, the wear is irrelevant. You only need to change it when changing the sprocket or chainring. Mine is now 8 or 9 years old, can't recall off hand but is on it's 3rd sprocket, 3rd chain and second chainring. I reverse the chain ring but not the sprocket as this would mean running a a surface exposed to the elements for a couple of years against he oil seal. Mine is an off road commuter used all year round and the drive train never gets more than a wipe and more oil put on it. I don't think it's draggy and the one proper test I saw in Human Powered Vehicle periodical or some such periodical showed it didn't differ much from a brand new perfectly clean conventional drivetrain. Mine leaks oil occasionally but if you change it once a year or 3000 miles if sooner then it's not a problem in terms of hub life. I find the 250ml bottles of oil a good option to save some money without the expense of the 1 litre bottles. For me the only downside is the weight, a lighter version would be nice but on the other hand I'd then want one on every bike!
You may say that you don't notice the drag but when I had one people who were slower than me became faster than me when I was on the Rohloff equipped bike . I didn't find it as fuss free as I expected either and didn't like having to really back off the power to make a gear change going up hill . Plenty of things that I did like about it but for me derailleurs are definitely better .
I had some fairly alarming weeping from the drive side for the first few weeks, it turned out to be a little bit of grit which had somehow got trapped under the seal. Since then it's been fine.
The disc side has always been completely dry, never seen even a hint of oil on that side.
and didn't like having to really back off the power to make a gear change going up hil
Do people actually change up the cassette under significant power going uphill though?
I know you[i] can[/i] do it, but I've always felt it's really rough and leads to chain snappage. Fair enough in a race situation maybe, but not day to day riding.
I have a Shimano Alfine 8 and whilst it has a number of annoying traits (it is draggy, the pick up is slower etc) I cannot fault it. It is on a steel 29er HT which is used as a "do everything bike" and hence I cannot fault it.
I would struggle to justify the extra expense of a rolhloff?
Do people actually change up the cassette under significant power going uphill though?
Are you aware that we are talking about an internal gear hub that does away with the need for a cassette ?
Oh and the weight distribution definitely feels different... Although I would struggle to describe whether this is a positive or a negative
Shame the drags definantly there, not just when pedaling but freewheeling also.
Ive ridden many, they all the same.
I own one. - used to run it back to back with an ss pro 2 on the same bike,in ss mode it rode quicker , smoother , quieter and nimbler in the rough stuff
Mines on my fatty - there its perfect. Fatty hides the drag well.
Its no magic bullet.
But if you want to justify it to your self crack on. I just wish i listened to singlespeedstu before i bought mine. He did try to warn me.
Also in most gear my alfine has less drag when pedaling but noticably more when freewheeling than even the rohloff.
This is my second rohloff and im happy with all its traits. Im not saying there is no drag but for me i dont notice it really as ive lost my fitness waiting for it 🙂 so when my fitness is back im still gonna be used to just riding this
Btw talking of drag on a big decent stick it in 11th gear you'll roll faster 😉
This is the shove I needed to actually fit mine ..... 🙂
It will be replacing an Alfine 8 speed which has been faultless so will be interesting to see if the drag is noticeable.
Despite having its seals checked/replaced mine weeps from the non DS and gathers at the bottom of the clickerbox. Doesn't seem to make contact with the 160mm disc so will see.
I may get a chance to fettle this evening .....
Bought a secondhand 'hoff about 7 years ago. Its been on several different frames, had several different rims laced onto it. I love it. Presently on a Fortitude Race
The only thing I'd possibly prefer is a frame-mounted gearbox, like a Pinion.
Had to send it back to the factory twice for new bearings. Each time fixed free of charge and given an overhaul and returned with a letter of apology for the failure 🙂
I had one for about 2 years and eventually the drag and the poor shifting got to me. I see it the opposite to how you see it- the weight and drag wouldn't matter on a lightweight trail bike but on an already heavy bike it compounds the issues and just makes life more difficult. Switching to 3x10 saved me something like 3lb and was just as reliable as well as being nice to ride.
Btw talking of drag on a big decent stick it in 11th gear you'll roll faster
Actually according to this
you might be better in 9
Looking at the tables the Rohloff is around 3% less efficient than a derailleur. However they didn't test every gear on the derailleur and the Rohloff was new and not worn in. However for every minute I've been slower on a ride I've saved 5 minutes of cleaning. I reckon more riding less cleaning can only be a good thing 🙂
And the Rohloff polarises opinion as expected! I think it will always be the way.
I'm not trying to justify anything to myself, least of all the cost...compared to teh Hope/XX1 on my other bike it is a bargain. Granted, compared to Deore it is pricey.
I just wanted to give my tuppenceworth for anyone thinking about getting one.
No it didn't 😆Switching to 3x10 saved me something like 3lb
I had one a few years ago.
On a hard tail I think it's best suited. The weight factor plus no chain tensioner made a lot of sense.
Also fitted one to a Nicolai Helius with the dedicate dropouts. Have to say it added too much weight and additional complexity with the chain tensioner, chain guide etc.
I liked it overall, but hard tail only for me.
31lb before, 27lb after. So, actually, 4lb.
When I was looking for a new job in town, my plan was to buy an Alfine or 'hoff equipped bike for the commute. It struck me as pretty much the perfect commuting setup and would steer well away from the [fixie] single speed that most of the blood hipsters use.
I mean, god inveted brakes and gears for a reason. USE THEM!!!
And shave off that ratty beard FFS.
31lb before, 27lb after. So, actually, 4lb.
You were using an osmium chain, sprockets, spokes and chain tensioner with the 'hoff weren't you 🙂
31lb before, 27lb after. So, actually, 4lb.
The best defense of an outrageous statement is always to make a more outrageous one. 🙂
I love them....so much so I have two!
One on my fat bike which I used to tour the length of South America on dirt roads, another sat waiting for another build project.
Draggy, can't really say as I notice but as others have said thats probably masked by 8" of rubber in contact with the ground.
Having lived with one for over 18 months of extended use they are unbeatable in terms of being relatively maintenance free, rock solid in terms of shifting and never having to worry about the derailluer getting clogged up with mud.
They're not to everyone's taste, but neithers marmite.
However for every minute I've been slower on a ride I've saved 5 minutes of cleaning. I reckon more riding less cleaning can only be a good thing
This is why I went Alfine then eventually SS. lazyness / better time management.
havnt sold mine forthe winter ride aspect - quick hose off and shes good to go tomorrow.
but there are many more enjoyable ways to spend a summer ride ..... 1x9/10 certainly trumps a rohloff on a lovely dry summers day.
if i could only have one bike it would be a rohloff and id accept the drag.
but i only take it out on mingy days as it is
4lbs chuckle chuckle
http://forums.mtbr.com/internal-gear-hubs/rohloff-setup-weight-penalty-my-calculations-251738.html
doesnt seem too outrageous as luke is probably on full XTR and dt swiss hubs and not retro to be weighing as much as 9 years ago - where as rohloff weighs still the same.
my Ti rigid was 24lb in rohloff mode and 19lb in SS mode..... but i have less gears than luke and no shifters/cables/cassete/mechs etc and my SS kit was light as **** and much smaller than the rohloff chainring- less chain.
+ves
Outperform Sturmey or Shimano gear hubs.
Very low maintenance.
German engineering
Novelty value
Very little to get bashed
Established product with decent service / factory support.
-ves
The drag definitely exists; perhaps OP disagrees with this but I'd imagine a fat bike or human powered tractor is pretty hard work anyway so maybe this is hidden. I've ridden plenty.
They leak.
The hub shells crack occasionally.
Spoke angle when built "normally" can lead to spoke failures; specially drilled Rigida Andra rims exist to alleviate this.
The shifter is Marmite.
It's loads of weight in the wrong place to have it on a mountain bike.
Costs the best part of a grand.
has anyone ever replaced the hub bearings themselves? shipping the whole wheel to germany sounds like a ball-ache to me.
shipping the whole wheel to germany sounds like a ball-ache to me.
You don't need to. Take it to your local shop. They'll send it to Ison in Cambridge. Ison send it to Rohloff. It gets fixed, they send it back.
Spoke angle when built "normally" can lead to spoke failures
they recommend a 2-cross build due to the spoke flange diameter being 100mm or so. Worth bearing mind the hub is symmetrical, so its dishless.
shipping the whole wheel to germany sounds like a ball-ache to me.
You don't need to. Take it to your local shop. They'll send it to Ison in Cambridge. Ison send it to Rohloff. It gets fixed, they send it back.
yeah, that sounds loads better. 🙄
that sounds loads better
When I've done it, its taken about 5 working days all in. That's quicker than most shops will look at a "normal" wheel.
UK service work is minimal, I once changed a shell but that's another story.
The turnaround time in Germany was excellent whenever I sent anything back to them and their English was great so they were easy to deal with.
It's a bit asymmetrical comparing a Rohloff to a Derailleur Chainset.
Compared to a Rohloff a derailleur setup is a very temporary and consumable piece of equipment.
[s]If they built a derailleur for the same longevity, it would be... [/s] Nah, it's not possible, it would weigh a ton, and be bulky. 🙂
I've got four of them. 😛
One on my "main" 29er, one that was on my "spare" 29er when I was doing 12 & 24 hour races, but is now destined for my 29+, one on Mrs MTG's 29er and one on our tandem.
After tens of thousands of kms riding Rohloff, my opinions on the most common myths are;
Drag. That HPV article is heavy going, so no wonder most people prefer to believe the myth rather than the evidence.
Look at the Shimano 27 speed figures. 95% efficient in 21st, 90% efficient in 24th. [i]Nobody[/i] ever claims they can feel that, yet [i]everybody[/i] claims they can feel the 2% difference between Rohloff and derailleurs.
Weight distribution. I can start a ride with 1.5kg of water near the centre of my frame and end it with none. I ride either Rohloff or SS. In either case I can notice the overall weight difference, but not any change in handling due to weight distribution.
Backing off to change gear. Do people really shift gear with derailleurs at [i]full[/i] power? Even on the tandem, I just briefly resist Mary's pedalling and shift. She notices the change in cadence, not the shift itself.
Shifting while stationary. This really is a big plus on the tandem where unscheduled stops are more common and lifting and spinning the back wheel to shift while stationary would be a lot harder.
Cost. The second hand price isn't based on age or mileage, there is no depreciation. Buy one, ride it, if you don't like it, sell it again for what you paid for it. Think of it as free hire, albeit with a big deposit.
Spoke angle. You may need to "cold set" the rim. It sounds a bit brutal, but find hex key or similar that's a snug fit in the spoke holes and bend them a bit to line up better.
I always feel there's resistance to change amongst mountain bikers.
If MTBs had evolved from CX rather than cruisers, then 29 would be normal and 26 would be the new odd size that's OK for very short people or stunt riding, but no good for "normal" riding.
If hub gears had constantly evolved from the early pre-war versions to become the standard bicycle gear, then derailleurs would be seen as a high maintenance lightweight fragile option that's OK for weight weenies, but not robust enough for "normal" use.
MidlandTrailquestsGraham - great summary...now, don't suppose you have a spare one to flog on do you? 😀
I've got three, one on a hardtail winter/commuter (longevity/reliability are foremost) one on a AM full sus - the extra weight is negligible as it is heavy anyway.
And the third is for sale, in superb condition, built into a 26" Mavic XM 321 rim - email in profile if interested.
I plan on doing a red & yellow build on my 29+. Rhusterbarb & custard. 😀
If I can find a second hand red hub before the frame arrives, I'll sell my black one.
If hub gears had constantly evolved from the early pre-war versions to become the standard bicycle gear, then derailleurs would be seen as a high maintenance lightweight fragile option that's OK for weight weenies, but not robust enough for "normal" use.
Well no, there is the (apparently, to you) small matter of £900 each, when you can buy two complete derailleur equipped bikes for that. Don't overlook that!
Not to mention FS bikes. I would quite like one on the Salsa but I re-used the drivetrain from the 5 to save money, so it's derailleur or more than double the cost of the build.
Hijack though - why do Evans have so many different models listed?