I use to partially place my hand over the lights if vehicles or pedestrians were approaching
I do that, but only have about a quarter of the lumens the OP is brandishing
Yeah, I guess it really isn’t too surprising that the cyclist is wrong and the driver is right on this forum
Not sure who you're responding to, but this is one occasion where I'd rather be wrong and not sprawled across the front of a car for being in the right.
Most car drivers haven't a ****in clue about the rules of the road anyway.
Always put yourself in the other person’s shoes.
Bike lights have no dip, and will completely dazzle a driver coming towards you. As has been said they end up being able to see nothing but your light so either have to stop or unfortunately the brain makes them drive to the light.
I always use my Headtorch full beam so they can see the light glow in the distance and then turn it down when they are in view
You've got plenty of sensible replies, so here's my 2cents...
Was this the chap in the lanny???
I only drove my dad's Defender once and found the headlights so appalling that my head-torch through the windscreen gave more illumination (it was a private track).
Fortunately I didn't have to drive it far, just onto a low loader so we could get rid of the pile of junk!
You’ve got plenty of sensible replies
Have we reached a consensus yet though? 😆
I do that, but only have about a quarter of the lumens the OP is brandishing
It’s that long since I did a night ride mine were practically dynamos. 😂
Maybe the driver did force the OP off the road, but that is not what was actually said.
In the LR driver’s defence, it can be impossible to judge distance when being dazzled by LED lights. Particularly if there are two side by side it can look like a car with its main beams on some distance away, rather than a bicycle 10 feet away.
I urge anyone who hasn’t done so to take the time to get off your bikes and walk around until you’re in the driver’s position. I had no concept of how dazzling and disorienting a couple of cheap LED lights could be until I did this. They are much worse than car main beams.
Most car drivers haven’t a * clue about the rules of the road anyway.
And most cyclists are also car-drivers. Ergo. The UK these days is by and large a cluster* of ignorance and entitlement on the roads from clueless road-users of one stripe, or another, or many.
I Have an MTB Batteries Lumenator which I use for off road riding and small road light for connecting tarmac sections - a Bontrager Ion 100 R. When I'm on the road I generally only use the small light.
If I feel I need the extra vision on the road that the Lumentaor offers then I angle it right down and use the lowest setting.
And most cyclists are also car-drivers. Ergo. The UK these days is by and large a cluster**** of ignorance and entitlement on the roads from clueless road-users of one stripe, or another, or many.
100%. I'm fortunate enough to have a seperate NCN route, away from cars, my whole 8.5 mile commute. The amount of cyclists that are lit up like a ****in oil rig is unreal.
Does anyone know why bicycle (marketed for general/road-use) lights in the UK are nearly all using beam-patterns that are patently unsuitable for safe road-use? Doesn't seem to matter if you buy ebay Chinese or established bike company brands, they are nearly all the same. Assume it’s because the existing standards are ignored/unenforced/inadequate + general ignorance?
Decent article here (and interesting response below re the Bristol/Bath cycle path) from years ago, but seems nothing much has changed except for LUMENWARS INTENSIFIES
https://www.cyclinguk.org/blog/chris-juden/bobby-dazzlers
My older Cree light has a swivelling mount with clicks so you can rotate it about 10 degrees either way temporarily. I sometimes do "dip" it towards the verge when meeting cars on very dark narrow roads.
I try to be considerate with my bar mounted magic shine when commuting. Basically turn it off on the shared cycle paths and when on a country road i dip it by rotating it forward.
Yeah, I guess it really isn’t too surprising that the cyclist is wrong and the driver is right on this forum
Mostly people are saying that both have made a mistake, the rider by dazzling the driver and the driver by reacting aggressively. In an ideal world, the driver would have calmly explained that the cyclist had basically blinded him and the cyclist would have apologised at looked at ways of being more considerate.
Does anyone know why bicycle (marketed for general/road-use) lights in the UK are nearly all using beam-patterns that are patently unsuitable for safe road-use?
Because unlike the Germans, we don't have enforceable laws governing the sale of bike lights and their suitability for road use. Plus if you read the replies here, lots of cyclists either don't care or think it's sufficient to angle their lights downwards or to one side, put a hand over the light - leaving them riding one-handed in the dark - or haven't really considered their impact on other road users.
And because lights with traffic-friendly beam patterns are more expensive to produce and cost more to buy, making them a hard sell to riders who don't really care.
All exacerbated by the ready availability of cheap, super powerful LED lights, which are far brighter than the candle bulb conventional lights that used to be used by cyclists. So the law hasn't really kept up with reality. See also the 55/60-watt headlight limit based on halogen bulbs, which is an irrelevance when HIDs and LEDs are now commonplace.
I hate it when peeps on the shared cycle path (runners, dogs walkers, cyclists of different speeds) use super bright lights. Just very rude and a bit dangerous.
the cyclist had basically blinded him
I bet the lights didn't blind him. I bet he was just "a bit annoyed by" the lights.
Yes, but was he revved up like a deuce?
the cyclist had basically blinded him
I bet the lights didn’t blind him. I bet he was just “a bit annoyed by” the lights.
2000 + 1200* lumens of scattered light with centre spot would momentarily/effectively blind someone ahead, also photo-bleaching the retina/s. I can’t understand how this is contentious?
*Assuming OP isn’t trolling.
On unlit roads, high power and poorly aimed bike lights are effectively blinding, it's dangerous for the rider and the driver. High power strobe and flashing light are as bad. Trouble is that lights for off-road, urban, unlit, and daytime all require different strength, beam patterns and flashing or not. If you're doing short stretches of road turn your light down, tilt it down slightly, or cup your hand over the top to act as a shield or do all 3.
As always the rule of don't be a dick applies to all parties.
As always the rule of don’t be a dick applies to all parties.
That’s one thing (DBAD, and most would agree up until they see a ‘reason’ to be one 🤣)
A real and pernicious problem is that most often dick actors cannot properly see their own reflection. So the rule applies in their mind, but they don’t think it applies to the beautiful youthful cheeky scamp in their mirror because ‘dicks’ are other people.
Yours,
Count Dickula
2000 lumens on unlit tarmac, lol.
I bet the lights didn’t blind him. I bet he was just “a bit annoyed by” the lights.
More likely he didn't even notice them. He just stopped to have a go at a cyclist 🙂
Even if that weren't the case, if more car drivers used dark glasses at night it would be far less of an issue. They need to take responsibility here.
In the 1960s some lights had visors over the glow worm powered headlamps so they didn't blind oncoming traffic. (Not that that was possible with the pathetic micro-lumen output)
A big visor would at least cut out the higher part of the beam on an LED light if the light was properly aimed.
BadlyWiredDog
...if more car drivers used dark glasses at night it would be far less of an issue. They need to take responsibility here.
Some of them need white sticks... 🙂
the cyclist had basically blinded him
I bet the lights didn’t blind him. I bet he was just “a bit annoyed by” the lights.
2000 + 1200* lumens of scattered light with centre spot would momentarily/effectively blind someone ahead, also photo-bleaching the retina/s. I can’t understand how this is contentious?
I've had cars pull over at night on unlit roads ever since I've been night riding in the mid 90s.
One time I had an argument with a driver who put his full beam on as he approached me. He had to, he said, because I'd blinded him with my lights. They were 10w/20w Cateyes*, almost certainly on the 10w setting and pointing at what I needed to see, not the sky or his eyes.
It's nothing to do with REALLY BRIGHT lights, it's all to do with some drivers being unable to cope with darkness and unexpected traffic.
*for those who didn't have the pleasure of using lights like these, it was better to turn your lights off on clear nights with a full moon!
Ok, here's a question from a thicky:
I have fairly bright lights - not full on off-road lights, but bright enough. I'm aware that they are quite dazzling, and I tend to use them on the lower settings and sometimes cover them when going towards a pedestrian or cyclist. However, I don't like pointing them too far down, as I like to see ahead.
If I put a strip of black tape along the top edge of the lens would this prevent some of the light from going upwards towards the eyes of pedestrians/cyclists/ drivers, while still beaming far forward to allow me to see where I'm going? Basically, would I make a cheap version of those interesting but insanely expensive German lights linked to earlier?
I know that if I am driving or cycling I find it harder to judge distance and things around me when I am dazzled by light. So it makes sense to me not to want to dazzle others.
I only road ride at nights and have an 850 lumen bar light and a cheap flashing light, and this is more than adequate for me to cycle on the unlit roads of Derbyshire. Quite often the light isn't on it's max setting. I find most car drivers dip their lights in good time so I'm not dazzled, so I am assuming they are seeing me in good time and I have yet to have any hassle about dazzling others.
I appreciate more light is required for riding off road, but do you really need to keep it all on when on the road?
@easily - you need to check yourself, tape the light up and go to say 50 metres in front of the bike and see what it's like. It's not just the upper part of the lens that's the problem, the reflector is symmetric so you'll get some spillage from the rest of the light. The stVZO compliant lights have a reflector that's asymmetrical and points the light in the right place so there's very little spillage and the sharp cutoff. The reflector shape also provides the even light level from near to far.
I've ridden at 20mph on unlit roads with stVZO compliant lights with no problem, not sure I'd want to be going much faster at night with potholes etc to contend with.
…if more car drivers used dark glasses at night it would be far less of an issue. They need to take responsibility here.
Some of them need white sticks…
'cos they've been blinded by the bike lights?
f I put a strip of black tape along the top edge of the lens would this prevent some of the light from going upwards towards the eyes of pedestrians/cyclists/ drivers, while still beaming far forward to allow me to see where I’m going? Basically, would I make a cheap version of those interesting but insanely expensive German lights linked to earlier?
Think about hot the reflector/lens works, it's possibly actually the bottom you want to obscure depending on where the lens's focal length is. But no, it probably won't work very well.
FWIW Cateye have ~£50 and ~£70 STVZO light options. So there really isn't much excuse cost wise.
My B+M Dynamo light cost £40 (obviously plus a front wheel). And decent dynamo's start at £70 so it's not like they cost any more than a mid range set of lights (and you never need to remember to charge them).
You don't need much in the way of lights to be an idiot. Almost all modern lights have an antisocial pattern. The German ones are about the only ones that don't. I think Exposure do one to those standards.
To be honest you don't need to be on the road with super bright lights to be dimwit. So often I meet groups coming towards me on the local family trail with both super bright helmet and main lights on 3 abreast. Absolutely no concern for anyone else coming the other way and almost universally the response to a polite "dip your lights please" is abuse. My tiny Exposure Flash is bright enough for gravel and that is sub 100 l I think. people who use a flasher on the rear at night off road are as bad.
It’s nothing to do with REALLY BRIGHT lights, it’s all to do with some drivers being unable to cope with darkness and unexpected traffic.
Quite. It is the driver's fault, no question. It's why I use high beam in the car at all times. If other drivers can't cope, that's their look out. I find applying tape over their eyes a useful option. Or they can simply stop and wait. Job done 🙂
I run up to 3000 lumens on my head and when cars approach on country lanes I aim the beam in the hedge, saves a lot of aggro. If they don't dip however, because I'm just a cyclist, they get all 3000 lumens in the windscreen which always makes them dip and then I re-point the head lamp in to the hedge. Sometimes even get an apology 🙂
So is light use on roads an indicator like how a rider behaves around dogs and walkers, or whether they believe descenders have a right of way?
To clarify, I was deliberately forced to a stop against the side of the road. I'm fairly convinced he went the other way at first and then turned round and came back past me, and made me stop by pulling right over in front of me and giving me nowhere to go. Now I should also add I do see his point, but he way he came across was barmy. He could have just asked politely. Sadly the fact I'd just crushed my helmet into my forehead, walloped my knee and hurt my already bad shoulder didn't help my attitude. I may have been less than a perfect ambassador for MTBers.
However,in future I think I'll knock my helmet light off on road sections and reduce the other one down to minimum. Had a look tonight and the 2000lm bar light in your face renders pretty much everything behind it invisible.
Also, I'm not trolling, I just wondered what other cyclist do, if its ever happened to anyone else and if I was in the wrong basically.
Never really gave it much of a thought last night,but the man did have a point. It won't stop me enjoying night riding, just the road bits 😂
would I make a cheap version of those interesting but insanely expensive German lights linked to earlier?
No. But why buy insanely expensive versions? A Sigma Aura 80 or a Fenix BC25R will get you decent cutoff beams in all-in-one USB-chargeable units for about £45-£50. IIRC both will also accept powerbank charging whilst in operation. That’s a lot for not a lot.
However,in future I think I’ll knock my helmet light off on road sections and reduce the other one down to minimum.
Again, it’s more the angle and pattern that is the problem (do the look-back driver’s eye/sightline test from down the road test, it’ll be a lower angle required than you thought, almost pointing down 45deg or more. So get that right first, and yes then also use lower/lowest output setting 👍🏼
Then get a compact road-specific light 🙂
so, you’re saying the OP has got to go and replace all his lights with different beam pattern ones just because one aggressive dickhead was a bit annoyed by them? Wowzers.
so, you’re saying the OP has got to go and replace all his lights with different beam pattern ones
No. That’s up to him.
just because one aggressive dickhead was a bit annoyed by them? Wowzers.
Because 350lms(?) to +2000lms of unfocused, centre-weighted LED/s easily dazzles and momentarily blinds other road-users, thereby endangering everyone in the vicinity.
Whether OP follows suggestions to seriously lower both angle and output of MTB light, or else add a road-specific light unit/or swap MTB light for multipurpose (dual-beam) light is...
... up to him. Was (like most responses here?) assuming he was asking for suggestions?
georgesdad
It won’t stop me enjoying night riding, just the road bits
Glad to hear it mate, night riding is great. Spooky sometimes but great.😁
I do in fact appreciate the suggestions, thanks all 😉
I bought cheap lights to try night riding this year. If there are better options for not annoying folk I'll look into it next autumn I think 👍
Meanwhile I'll do what I said, turn off the helmet light and turn down the other one.
so, you’re saying the OP has got to go and replace all his lights with different beam pattern ones just because one aggressive dickhead was a bit annoyed by them?
One aggressive dickhead, plus probably a load of normal people who were annoyed and inconvenienced by them but managed to not be a dick about it.
There's a reason beam alignment is part of the MOT for cars. Bike lights can now be easily as bright as car lights, but there's no MOT so just be responsible about it.
If I'm on a road with MTB lights, I typically turn the bar light right down when passing cars, but keep the helmet light on. It's got a much tighter beam so easier to keep it out of people's eyes by turning your head a bit.
but keep the helmet light on. It’s got a much tighter beam so easier to keep it out of people’s eyes by turning your head a bit.
Trying to think what use is a helmet light on the road, especially if you have to think about turning away from others when the natural and useful inclination is to be looking around, over shoulder, at other hazards, cars, cyclists, peds, etc?
Meanwhile I’ll do what I said, turn off the helmet light and turn down the other one.
Don’t forget the angle - most important, and reflectives can be cheap yet super-useful*
*Especially for your added safety/side-visibility - as most MTB (and even uk ‘road’)front lights seem not to provide any side-illumination.
I do the 'hands over light' for walkers or the odd car on quiet roads, and an exaggerated 'point lights down' where I am riding in traffic for a few minutes.
However, I'm now very wary of using a helmet light of any reasonable power on the road. I had a car pull out on me that was waiting patiently for me to pass which resulted in a collision. I suspect its because I had made eye contact with the driver, and then looked back ahead, but from her perspective she saw a a fairly bright light which then suddenly dimmed when I looked away. I think she presumed that I had turned into the junction she was pulling out of, and my main light probably just merged into the headlights of the cars in the second lane.
I got away with it due to kicking off her wing rather than being driven into/over.
