You can buy them a chunk cheaper on aliexpress
And there starts the problems.
Although Chinese manufacturers can produce stuff as good as anyone, there are Chinese manufacturers who have no issues with copying other Chinese products, and cutting as many corners as possible, so you end up with complete potluck as to what you actually receive.
And having had a quick search, Lewis just looks like another version of a Zoom brake, and it really wouldn't surprise if both originate from the same manufacturer. I'm sure if you could locate the actual manufacturer, they would knock you out a couple hundred sets for minimal cost, put whatever logo you'd like on them, and even tweak the design so it at least looks a bit different.
1
noeffsgiven
Free Member
kinda hilarious that those who’ve dropped a grand or two or more on trickstuff over the years and waited over a year for them to arrive have gotten their noses put out of joint and getting narky on forums, I personally couldn’t care less, there’s more pressing things to be outraged about, everything gets copied to some extent, if trickstuff have grounds to sue them then do it, if not then good on Lewis, I look forward to the anodised ones I’ve seen on Instagram coming out, I just might find them hard to resist, the fact it bugs trickstuff owners is an added bonus
Are there actually any Trickstuff owners on the thread?
Before the link police come along....why dont you buy these at around £21 a set.
Are there actually any Trickstuff owners on the thread?
I believe so, you can usually track them down as they tend to show their superiority by mentioning niche brands that most don't know of / can't afford.
😉
I think there's one Trickstuff owner on this thread and he has given rational advice on what to buy if you don't want to / can't spend $$$ on those brakes.
I also had a quick look and from what I can tell, in the UK you can buy Formula Cura 4 for the same price as Lewis. Work great. Original design within the parameters of not looking almost exactly like other brakes (and Formula were one of the first MTB hydraulic disc brakes on the market anyway), have spares available and are made in Italy if that counts for anything.
I've got nothing against most aspects of Lewis brakes. There is a lever / master cylinder that pushes fluid down a line and push some big pistons. All pretty basic and proven stuff. Personally though I think ripping off another companies aesthetics actually makes the brakes seem worse. If they'd have come up with their own basic design it would make them look less like a cheap knock-off. They currently look as trustworthy as that youtube 'review'.
You can buy them a chunk cheaper on aliexpress
And there starts the problems.
Although Chinese manufacturers can produce stuff as good as anyone, there are Chinese manufacturers who have no issues with copying other Chinese products, and cutting as many corners as possible, so you end up with complete potluck as to what you actually receive.
And having had a quick search, Lewis just looks like another version of a Zoom brake, and it really wouldn’t surprise if both originate from the same manufacturer. I’m sure if you could locate the actual manufacturer, they would knock you out a couple hundred sets for minimal cost, put whatever logo you’d like on them, and even tweak the design so it at least looks a bit different.
You must not have read all the posts.
These brakes are most definitely nothing like the zoom brakes.
Not sure why people are still getting hung up on this,
Because (for the nth time) really obviously stealing other peoples designs and passing them off as your own is a shitty business practice
some folk must have a very fragile state of mind that they get triggered so easy.
I think the only person on the thread who’s being triggered seems to be you really, you seem to be massively defensive and making up excuses about your decision to buy them. Look; most folks can’t afford Trickstuff brakes, but nevertheless probably admire them for what they are, and the craftsmanship and engineering skill that’s gone into designing and making them, and probably wish the company well. For some-one to come along and make brakes (however well they perform) that look identical; just sticks in the throat.
I can't believe you are still letting it bother you. You can't help but replying on my post.
I think you need to go back and read your posts and the way you've spoke. You've most definitely been triggered and got agitated at me for buying these brakes.
There was never any need for you to comment as you've had nothing constructive to offer.
I was simply replying to let people know the brakes have been working very well.
Why didn’t you go with one of the countless other original options from, off the top of my head,
Magura<br style="box-sizing: border-box; --tw-translate-x: 0; --tw-translate-y: 0; --tw-rotate: 0; --tw-skew-x: 0; --tw-skew-y: 0; --tw-scale-x: 1; --tw-scale-y: 1; --tw-scroll-snap-strictness: proximity; --tw-ring-offset-width: 0px; --tw-ring-offset-color: #fff; --tw-ring-color: rgb(59 130 246 / 0.5); --tw-ring-offset-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-ring-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow-colored: 0 0 #0000;" />Formula<br style="box-sizing: border-box; --tw-translate-x: 0; --tw-translate-y: 0; --tw-rotate: 0; --tw-skew-x: 0; --tw-skew-y: 0; --tw-scale-x: 1; --tw-scale-y: 1; --tw-scroll-snap-strictness: proximity; --tw-ring-offset-width: 0px; --tw-ring-offset-color: #fff; --tw-ring-color: rgb(59 130 246 / 0.5); --tw-ring-offset-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-ring-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow-colored: 0 0 #0000;" />Hayes<br style="box-sizing: border-box; --tw-translate-x: 0; --tw-translate-y: 0; --tw-rotate: 0; --tw-skew-x: 0; --tw-skew-y: 0; --tw-scale-x: 1; --tw-scale-y: 1; --tw-scroll-snap-strictness: proximity; --tw-ring-offset-width: 0px; --tw-ring-offset-color: #fff; --tw-ring-color: rgb(59 130 246 / 0.5); --tw-ring-offset-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-ring-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow-colored: 0 0 #0000;" />TRP
Or if you wanted niche CNCd ones<br style="box-sizing: border-box; --tw-translate-x: 0; --tw-translate-y: 0; --tw-rotate: 0; --tw-skew-x: 0; --tw-skew-y: 0; --tw-scale-x: 1; --tw-scale-y: 1; --tw-scroll-snap-strictness: proximity; --tw-ring-offset-width: 0px; --tw-ring-offset-color: #fff; --tw-ring-color: rgb(59 130 246 / 0.5); --tw-ring-offset-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-ring-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow-colored: 0 0 #0000;" />Radic<br style="box-sizing: border-box; --tw-translate-x: 0; --tw-translate-y: 0; --tw-rotate: 0; --tw-skew-x: 0; --tw-skew-y: 0; --tw-scale-x: 1; --tw-scale-y: 1; --tw-scroll-snap-strictness: proximity; --tw-ring-offset-width: 0px; --tw-ring-offset-color: #fff; --tw-ring-color: rgb(59 130 246 / 0.5); --tw-ring-offset-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-ring-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow-colored: 0 0 #0000;" />BSA<br style="box-sizing: border-box; --tw-translate-x: 0; --tw-translate-y: 0; --tw-rotate: 0; --tw-skew-x: 0; --tw-skew-y: 0; --tw-scale-x: 1; --tw-scale-y: 1; --tw-scroll-snap-strictness: proximity; --tw-ring-offset-width: 0px; --tw-ring-offset-color: #fff; --tw-ring-color: rgb(59 130 246 / 0.5); --tw-ring-offset-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-ring-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow-colored: 0 0 #0000;" />Braking<br style="box-sizing: border-box; --tw-translate-x: 0; --tw-translate-y: 0; --tw-rotate: 0; --tw-skew-x: 0; --tw-skew-y: 0; --tw-scale-x: 1; --tw-scale-y: 1; --tw-scroll-snap-strictness: proximity; --tw-ring-offset-width: 0px; --tw-ring-offset-color: #fff; --tw-ring-color: rgb(59 130 246 / 0.5); --tw-ring-offset-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-ring-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow-colored: 0 0 #0000;" />Intend<br style="box-sizing: border-box; --tw-translate-x: 0; --tw-translate-y: 0; --tw-rotate: 0; --tw-skew-x: 0; --tw-skew-y: 0; --tw-scale-x: 1; --tw-scale-y: 1; --tw-scroll-snap-strictness: proximity; --tw-ring-offset-width: 0px; --tw-ring-offset-color: #fff; --tw-ring-color: rgb(59 130 246 / 0.5); --tw-ring-offset-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-ring-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow-colored: 0 0 #0000;" />612
Instead going for untested, by anyone independent of the maker, knock offs?
Very tempted by the Radic. I've already contacted them months ago and may still buy some.
As for the others, I've tried all of them above so not interested.
I tried the lewis as I wanted to test out something new. I was intrigued by them.
I've got many sets of brakes so it wasn't about buying some I already have or have tried.
Will probably get the radics for spring 2024 and report back.
You’ve tried all of them?
Impressive.
Though I’m getting big astroturf vibes from the whole thread, if I’m honest.
You must not have read all the posts.
These brakes are most definitely nothing like the zoom brakes.
Nothing like?
Other than the lever bodies look like the same basic design. Lewis have machined out more of the body and moved the bleed port, and added a bite point adjuster. The blades look identical.
Caliper wise, both are using two part calipers, with the only visual differences being the external machining. It even looks like they're using identical pads.
I occasionally deal with China, and it really wouldn't surprise me if the brakes came out the same factory. If you believe every Chinese company's website/information page, China only has large companies employing hundreds of people, just to manufacture a few niche products.
The reality is those companies are selling other companies rebranded products, which are often near identical copies of someone else's design. And most companies will brand what you're buying with any logo you'd like, often for no extra cost. They really don't care about copyright, trademarks, what logo that they're putting on a product, or lying to purchasers as to where the product has actually came from.
Is this stupid thread still Fockin going? Jeez boys the pub's open
Other than the lever bodies look like the same basic design. Lewis have machined out more of the body and moved the bleed port, and added a bite point adjuster. The blades look identical.
Caliper wise, both are using two part calipers, with the only visual differences being the external machining. It even looks like they’re using identical pads.
I occasionally deal with China, and it really wouldn’t surprise me if the brakes came out the same factory. If you believe every Chinese company’s website/information page, China only has large companies employing hundreds of people, just to manufacture a few niche products.
The reality is those companies are selling other companies rebranded products, which are often near identical copies of someone else’s design. And most companies will brand what you’re buying with any logo you’d like, often for no extra cost. They really don’t care about copyright, trademarks, what logo that they’re putting on a product, or lying to purchasers as to where the product has actually came from.
You really should do a bit more research before you post. It's comical that you're comparing them the Zoom brakes considering you haven't held either in your hands or even bothered to google a technical drawing of the Lewis LH4 brake which is widely available. If you compare that drawing with the Zoom brakes and come away thinking they are the same then you're probably not of sound mind and judgement.
Lewis brakes appeared in Chinese social media about 18 months ago and there are a few videos from inside their own factory where they are produced.
Maybe you picked up some Mandarin through your vague dealings with China? Have a look on Bilibili, there are countless videos about the brakes.
https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1ZC4y1d7Yf/ heres one with the design changes compared to the original discontinued Takisawa brake that predates the LH4.
Are we now at the stage where this is all done by bots to drive up 'interest' in the product and get people buying as they disagree with some of the arguments and it drives them to purchase to score a goal against those they disagree with? 😉
This thread has certainly produced plenty of posts and a few have been getting evangelical about the brakes (despite them being incredibly new and only having them about a week or so - which is to be expected as there are many folk who spend money on something and then completely slag it off as soon as it is fitted).
It is getting boring now though as the remarks all seem to be a repeat from the first and second page, so hopefully there will be some updates with a different message soon.
You really should do a bit more research before you post. It’s comical that you’re comparing them the Zoom brakes considering you haven’t held either in your hands or even bothered to google a technical drawing of the Lewis LH4 brake which is widely available. If you compare that drawing with the Zoom brakes and come away thinking they are the same then you’re probably not of sound mind and judgement.
I'm not that vested in the subject to go searching for drawings.
I was going by a cursory look at some photos, as I happened to be looking for something on Aliexpress last night and thought I'd have a quick look to see what all the fuss is about.
These brakes, if they are reliable and spare parts are easily available will become very popular. I'd definitely consider them on my next bike. I'd be interested to hear of your long term review @benpinnick as I respect your opinion on both quality and value for money.
It's disappointing how many freemembers/bots are evangelical about unproven Chinese tat rather than supporting UK manufacturing who apparently are incapable of making similar priced reliable/performing brakes.
Anyone who thinks China's shameless copying of other companies' IP is a harmless win for consumers could do worse than read this: https://www.kirkusreviews.com/book-reviews/beth-macy/factory-man/
This is bad propoganda.
China make good happy product and people's.
You should learn to trust honest reviewer.
This design is very human.
Gorilla brakes have started doing pads for them, I can see these brakes taking off with a decent distributor and just a couple favourable reviews.
The lh4 take same pads as hope e4
The lht ultimate take the same pad as v4
Ie same as trickstuff but didn't want to mention that
I stumped up 400 notes for the lht ti ultimates
Yes Ive more money than sense
First ride out yesterday and they are incredible
So easy to fit but the rear hose at 1600mm was just long enough
The ultimate versions I got have the leverage ratio I had a quick play on the first mile or so
Set the ite point and reach and the power is like nothing I've ever experienced.
I've mated them to the trp 2.3 rotors off merlin as they are designed for wider rotors
I've hope tech 4 v4 on the other bike and they are the benchmark
Are they better .there more powerful nicer lever imo but it would be a bold statement after one ride to say that
Reliability is also finger In the wind but I'll also add issues with 3 sets of the new tech 4 ,x2 e4,s b3fore having leaking pistons on the v4 ....
The last pair were swapped by hope directly and have been superb with zero issues
If bought them from submission cycles and they were excellent
P.s the postcode shows a ladbrooks but the shops just round the corner
P.s my Mercedes pick up truck is a Nissan nirvara with a Mercedes engine and interior and wheels and a 3 pointed star on the front but costs 18k more than the Nissan equivalent but everyone says Mercedes pick up mate didn't know they did them
I say they don't it's a Nissan with makeup on
No one actually cares
Not even dt swiss who bought trickstuff care about it
P.s my Mercedes pick up truck is a Nissan nirvara with a Mercedes engine and interior and wheels and a 3 pointed star on the front but costs 18k more than the Nissan equivalent but everyone says Mercedes pick up mate didn’t know they did them
I say they don’t it’s a Nissan with makeup on
Mercedes and Nissan will have shared the development cost, or one will have licensed it from the other. Don’t think that’s the case here.
The Merc Pickup is a straightforward rebadge of the Nissan Navara, just like the Merc Citan is a rebadged Renault Kangoo. So that's two models Merc just buys from the Renault/Nissan partnership, with a few cosmetic tweaks to make them appear to be a Merc.
It came to mind, is there a BS or ISO standard for aftermarket brakes. All I can seem to find is BS EN ISO 4210-4:2023, but this seems to relate to the test procedure for bicycle brakes. I can’t say I can ever recall seeing that Hope, Magura etc, promote their brakes as compliant with standards. I assume they do (yes, I’ve assumed) but I suspect the general standard for performance would be well below what we, as advanced bikers, would require.
Even so, would a standardised test provide any visibility on long term durability and reliability.
Curious really, that a company can launch a brake, a safety critical item, without testing and approval so I assume or hope they have been.
Curious really, that a company can launch a brake, a safety critical item, without testing and approval so I assume or hope they have been.
Technically they don't have to. It's the importer that will be on the hook. In my case while I didn't pay for the brakes I was the importer so it is my responsibility to ensure that they are compliant, or not since I'm not planning on selling them.
Having used them a bit more they're good brakes.
Pros
- Good/great power
- Nice feel
- Really effective adjustments
- Big piston size differential seems effective at reducing squeal; the brakes run quietly even in terrible conditions.
Cons
- Shimano shifter compatibility needs improving
- The high gain from small lever bore to big pistons means pads run very close to the disc. This brake is going to be less tolerant of dirty or bent discs than other brands.
- Hose choice may not be to everyone's taste (although trouble free for me so far) especially in silver; the whole brake in fact isn't the prettiest and making it silver only highlights that. The shinier silver bits aren't helping either.
- I've probably already lost the inner adjuster screw head. Needs to be captive ideally.
So you've probably ridden a few different brakes Ben, how does it compare to a Shimano 4-pot? Or a Magura MT5 or Sram Code?
Any performance advantage to justify it costing more than some of those brands' mid-range brakes?
Not looking to buy, just still a bit baffled.
I also should say both calipers had a sticky piston which needed oiling before I fitted them. Not a massive issue but would be nice if I'd not had to do it.
@chakaping you'd need saints or code rsc to get close to the power. Without trying same pad compound same conditions I'm not going to say which has the most but I'd be surprised if the Lewis lost out. All three are good brakes. The Lewis definitely does have the nicest feel of the three but that is subjective of course. Combining for me the best of the saint and code. I've not spent enough time on the Maguras to really comment meaningfully.
Interesting stuff, thx.
I guess they're pitching to supply to you as OE.
Feeling tempted?
@chakapingyou’d need saints or code rsc to get close to the power. Without trying same pad compound same conditions I’m not going to say which has the most but I’d be surprised if the Lewis lost out. All three are good brakes. The Lewis definitely does have the nicest feel of the three but that is subjective of course. Combining for me the best of the saint and code. I’ve not spent enough time on the Maguras to really comment meaningfully.
This really interesting feedback. Im having a woeful time of it with some Code R that came on my levo. Was already thinking of upgrading to Saints as per my last Levo that was stolen but now Im thnking about the Lewis.
That's a decent enough review Ben.
I'm not in the market. I'm wedded to my Hopes and will probably upgrade to a tech 4 leaver at some point.
Back to Lewis. Most other 'reviews' seem to state that they feel nice in the car park..... End of review. So any more info is a bonus.
This really interesting feedback. Im having a woeful time of it with some Code R that came on my levo. Was already thinking of upgrading to Saints as per my last Levo that was stolen but now Im thnking about the Lewis.
Code R isn’t anything like an RSC
@renton We have rsc on two Turbo Levos and one Enduro
Can't fault them and we also run Saints
These are spot on at the price of £220
https://www.stifmtb.com/products/sram-code-rsc-brakeset-200-180mm-w-mmx-clamp
Why sick a Lewis on that has little reviews apart from the ones pushing them against a top end well reviewed one that will also have a warranty backed by SRAM
It's not worth the worry or the risk.
I guess they’re pitching to supply to you as OE.
Feeling tempted?
A new manufacturer like this would need at least 6 months testing before I'd even contemplate it so that's a few months out yet. Even then theres a lot of factors to consider not least cost - fully machined brakes like these take a lot of machine time, even from China that's not going to win any value awards, so the performance would need to be spot on. As I say performance-wise they're certainly holding their own, but I test way more stuff than we sell so even that would be no guarantee we'd offer it. It's always good to know what the alternatives are like even if we choose not to sell it.
Cheers for all the comments ref the code r.
do the code r and rsc use the same caliper as it’s that which is causing my issues. Sticky pistons that come out at different times and constantly needing to be pumped to get any sort of decent lever feel.
These brakes have done less than 100miles and burnt through a set of sintered pads on the rear already.
If the bike is still under warranty then get it booked in and sorted especially if you've only done that milage
Other alternative are Guide RE at £43 an end from Tredz
We have got these on a couple of bikes from 2018 and they have been faultless
deore 4 pots are £45 an end on crc atm
not sure you'll get a better brake than that for the money- ( thats true of deore generally tbh, it smashes the low end sram groupsets out the park) i have some tech4 e4 on my other bike and honestly the deores don't concede much to them, the benefit of the tech4 is the super light lever feel that means less finger/ arm fatigue on long descents
you don't even need to swap out brakes, check what pad compound , gorilla greens are cheap, noisy in the wet, wear fast, but have more bite tha Dracula
anyway the Lewis brakes are intriguing, but they're not 'deore in the CRC firesale' cheap in the end Id rather pay the extra for tech4s , just because
do the code r and rsc use the same caliper as it’s that which is causing my issues
No, they use the old code caliper from 5y+ ago. So do the Guide REs. The R also has the budget version of the lever like all R/RE spec brakes do.
No, they use the old code caliper from 5y+ ago. So do the Guide REs. The R also has the budget version of the lever like all R/RE spec brakes do<br />
Oh ok. I didn’t know this. My 2022 levo has the code r and a riding friend has a 2022 Levo pro fitted with the RSC and visually we couldn’t tell the difference.
No, they use the old code caliper from 5y+ ago. So do the Guide REs. The R also has the budget version of the lever like all R/RE spec brakes do.
im not sure this is the case, as guide RE does not have the bleeding edge port, but the code R does, suggesting the newer calliper design.
Sorry @renton z1ppy is correct it's just the levers (with maybe some hidden difference in the pistons if there is any at all.
Code r has full phelonic pistons
Code rsc has a phelonic coated piston
