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I tend to get almost as wound up about bad cycling as I do about bad driving and tend to think that it 'lets the side down', gives cyclists a bad name and engenders bad will in some drivers that the rest of us have to deal with. It's probably a contentious view.
Anyway, I was walking along the footpath from Street to Glastonbury with my Wife this morning. On the far side of the road, a little way along, is a turning into Hulk Moor Drove; coming from Glastonbury the approach is clearly marked as No Right Turn.
A chap and his two youngish children were cycling as a group towards us and then pulled into the centre of the road and stopped in a line (I'm not sure if they indicated, I wasn't paying attention until this point). The chap then lent into the incoming traffic (which was fairly relentless) waving vigorously into their windscreens and pulling faces when they didn't stop to let him and his children pull their illegal manoeuvre and cross into Hulk Moor Drove. Eventually someone did stop (holding up the traffic behind) and matey and family set off.
I find myself really annoyed by this, not least because it does let the side down but also it teaches the next generation of cyclists that the rules of the road don't apply to them. Perhaps even more relevant was the amount of risk (in my opinion) he put his children in, pinning them in a very narrow strip of road between to heavy streams of traffic.
The manoeuvre is even more ridiculous when you realise that literally just a few yards before the turning is a Pelican Crossing that would have allowed them to stop the traffic, cross and walk their bikes down to Hulk Moor Drove without issue (on the return trip we saw a pedestrian almost taken out on the same crossing as a car ran the red light, which just goes to show how inattentive some drivers are on this stretch of road).
Am I being unreasonable expecting cyclists to behave themselves? For balance I've seen a number of motor vehicles (and some cyclists) turning right out of Hulk Moor Drove which is heavily signed and marked as no right turn.
Knobs.
Knobs everywhere.
You can't hold yourself responsible for knobs.
^ that
^that, with knobs on.
I don't care that much. Such rules are made for the convenience of motorists, cyclists and pedestrians are generally an afterthought and when they break that sort of rule they generally put themselves at risk more than others.
Many years ago I used to occasionally cycle in Chester and used to go the wrong way a few yards up a one-way street (Northgate Street for anyone who knows it) as the legal alternative was a relatively long detour on a nasty ring road.
Then one time I found that TPTB had painted a stripe on the road with a contraflow cycle lane, making my reckless/antisocial/dangerous/criminal (take your pick) manoeuvre entirely legal.
Such rules are made for the convenience of motorists
That's my general take. Most rules are to aid traffic flow or make roads safer for others. There's a whole load of rules that really shouldn't apply to cyclists but we are stuck with them.
Once the roads are safer for more vulnerable users and all motorists are obeying the law then maybe we can start cracking down on cyclists that break laws that do no harm. I certainly don't waste energy getting angry at any that do.
Generally I'm happy to hold up traffic if kids on bikes / pushchairs / dog walkers/ runners are in an exposed position. Be more Zen.
Agree with last two posters, but also, in this case, definitely just use the pelican crossing.
My bike commute changed when I moved house recently. Onto busier roads, had to cross a dual carriageway next to busy roundabout. The crossing took a long time to change so I would look for gaps in the traffic. Had a few exchanges with drivers beeping/waving, was taking risks.
Taking risks on a daily basis isn't for me I always use the crossing now and wait for it except when definitely no risk in not waiting. Can never be sure of the speed cars approaching a roundabout are going to be at near the crossing. Not worth the risk or stress. Not worth pleadingly looking at drivers hoping one might stop.
The manoeuvre is even more ridiculous when you realise that literally just a few yards before the turning is a Pelican Crossing that would have allowed them to stop the traffic
i'm not one that thinks cyclists are some sort of brethren that has a common standard and that my efforts to be polite/considerate are a contribution to cycling nirvana
...I'd suspect that there is no easy way to access the crossing from the road on a bike?
…I’d suspect that there is no easy way to access the crossing from the road on a bike?
Just roll up onto the cycle path (safe enough to do if indicating). Yes you would then have to dismount to turn the bike to face the crossing but it's not hard.
I appreciate that many don't feel a shared responsibility amongst cyclists and that most rules of the road are intended for motorised vehicles but (and ignoring the No Right Turn) it still seemed pointlessly risky and didn't appear to be teaching good road sense to the children.
Letting the side down? They're just people riding bikes. Couldn't care less.
I don't think you're being unreasonable, but life is less stressful without stressing over every arsehole you see.
Your safe in your metal box carry on 👍🏻
Kids on bikes I'll cut some slack.
But yes, there are dicks on bikes.
I know it's not directly relevant to the OPs point, but I'll always stop if someone is stuck in the centre of the road and not on an island, even if they are trying to cross the opposing lane. They'll often acknowledge the fact I've stopped and step back into the safe space I've made behind them.
Regardless of how they got there, it seems increasingly dangerous to carry on and hope that following drivers notice someone in the middle of the road. I also find that oncoming drivers are more likely to give way if the opposite lane is already stopped.
I know it’s not directly relevant to the OPs point, but I’ll always stop if someone is stuck in the centre of the road and not on an island,
I'm not a driver myself, but I've been afforded this kindness when turning right on my bike on busy roads a number off times. I hugely appreciate it and always acknowledge it.
My beef this morning, amongst other things, was turning right when turning right was clearly forbidden and where a much safer, and legal, option was available.
Not unreasonable but an unrealistic expectation and therefore not worth worrying about.
I'm from oop north but I know that piece of road, it's lethal to cyclists, I would have been more inclined to cycle on to the roundabout and come back on the 'right' side of the road to make the turn , as motorists are exhorted to do.
Am I being unreasonable expecting cyclists to behave themselves?
Without knowing the stretch of road or how dangerous it is, it really doesn't sound that big a deal. It comes across as getting wound up over rules because rules. Rules that are only necessary because of motor vehicles. Kids on bikes aren't endangering anyone.
Yes you would then have to dismount to turn the bike to face the crossing but it’s not hard.
Energy would be better spent voicing the need for better infrastructure. Its ridiculous in this day and age that kids can't safely cycle from a to b. Going past where you need to go, then getting off your bike and walking the rest of the way isn't really the answer. Let's face it nobody's going to do that.
Edit: I Google mapped it out of curiosity. It does indeed look stupid and dangerous. Still though, the only people being let down are himself and his family. And it would be easy to create a piece of cycle infrastructure from the crossing.
Meh, from what you describe OP, if I was out with my kids I'd probably opt for the crossing, managing them across a road on foot Vs dancing with oncoming traffic is just easier sometimes irrespective of the signage.
However I have to agree with the "no such thing as collective responsibility for all bicycle users" point there is no 'side' to let down.
I have Lots of things in common with lots of people, it doesn't make me their 'brother'.
Life's too short to flag down everyone who commits any infraction of rule 1 to point it out to them, and ask how they're going to make it up to the collective who's good name they have sullied...
People with a dislike for bicycle users don't really care if you're a Saint or a tool, they already hated you well before you met...
As a person who rides a bike, drives a car, and walks, I don't feel like anyone is letting 'my' side down if they do stupid things regardless of their mode of transport.
'We' as cyclists are just people on bikes. Same as people in cars and people on foot. Stop trying to create a tribe and then adopt random people into it.
Eventually someone did stop (holding up the traffic behind)
If I saw folk as you describe trying to cross a busy road, I'd stop.
Irrelevant whether they're right/wrong and/or could've done it better/safer etc.
In fact I've 'put' my car across both lanes (on my side) to let someone walking/cycling cross so traffic couldn't get through.
Two issues surely. Breaking the law is wrong. End. Should be punished.
Letting some one across. Hmm Basic rule of road is never give away your right of way. It causes confusion. Cyclists were plain wrong.
Tis annoying as we all get tarred with the same brush.
Is there a chance that this parent missed the correct turning or crossing place and then had a very stressful moment trying to get his kids safely across the road without anyone dying?
I don’t know if you have children or not but my experience with mine with bikes and roads is that even a fairly reasonable road feels like a death trap.
Is there a chance that this parent missed the correct turning or crossing place and then had a very stressful moment trying to get his kids safely across the road without anyone dying?
I don’t know if you have children or not but my experience with mine with bikes and roads is that even a fairly reasonable road feels like a death trap.
Yes, very possible and perhaps I should have considered that. I guess that we've all made mistakes on the bike that put us in awkward positions. I don't have children but get stressed enough when I go out for a ride with my Wife.
I think that the 'proper' way of correction is to head into Street, go around the roundabout and come back on the correct side but if you're not local you might not know that there's a roundabout ahead and navigating it on a bike in heavy traffic is pretty scary (let alone with kids).
It might not be relevant in this case but round here there are lots of "non-cyclists" on bikes at this time of year. They've either hired locally or they've dug bikes out if their garage for their annual wobble. You soon learn to spot them as an additional risk/chicane as they have little road sense and also wander all over the paths and tracks with little regard for anyone else. It's both annoying and encouraging.