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Loss of titles.
Loss of office.
Loss of sponsorship.
Loss of prize money.
Falling down makes a great story but this should never have been about one man - it was about cycling (contrary to Lance's belief he was the epitomy of cycling) and the dark days of the two-speed peloton.
It seems the media is fascinated with this story for all the *wrong* reasons.
Many similarities with the jimmy savile story...
Once a hero
Know to be bit shifty now
Every few days more skeletons
Every few days more people are implicated
It's good rolling news.
Watched a bit of the Jimmy thing. Doth the Beeb protest too much?
Every few days more people are implicated
But never last in the news - there is an opportunity to ban these for life rather than slap on the wrist for fessing up (probably under duress)
I think cycling is doing more damage to itself by focusing far more on the past and not thinking of the future. The obsession with hanging up the dirty laundry of the past, rather than drawing a line and going forwards, will mean greater damage overall.
It has been forced onto cycling, Uncle Pat didn't decide to clean out the cheats, its been forced upon him. And as anyone who has followed the story knows, there was a window of opportunity after the festina bust of 98 to clean up the sport, it looked like cycling was going to move in the right direction, but Lance & USPostal dragged the sport back into the pit.
What the media are screwing up is by representing cycling as a dirty sport, while showing a naive ignorance of the drugs abuse going on in others.
Sadly it's taking the shine off our success this year (bloke in the pub view)
Very good point above. The question is would we catch them now?
I think that successfully chasing the money Lance made is vital. That will be an important element in the process of deterring others from doping. It fraud (sponsors and public) and theft (from non dopers)
It's good rolling news.
+1. Given they released bits of the USADA report each day over a week or so, it shows it's just a good news story for the moment.
Agree with oldgit. + Theres a shadow..
it's just a good news story for the moment.
Anybody who has followed cycling, it's not really been news. It's just confirmed what has been believed all along. And the news appears to be a constant stream of 'what is happening to Lance next'.
The news should be what is happening to cycling next ie. The future
The hole LA is leaving behind is in danger of widening and swallowing up a whole lot more which is never good for cycle sport.
Although I will admit that I have changed my opinion and now believe that he probably did dope. I still leaves a bad taste in my mouth that he's basically been found guilty on hearsay from people with a grudge against him and others that have been given rather minor punishments for their crimes.
I think that a line should be drawn to distance the sport from the doping years and the UCI needs lot look towards how they can better the sport. The question I have is will all the other riders of that era be investigated as thoroughly as Lance Armstrong? And will their sentence be the same? If not the surely it's one rule for one, and one for another?
Maybe from now onwards anyone who is proved to be involved in cheating should have a lifetime ban from the sport. But then that's my view on all sports. At least cycling attempts to catch users of proformance enhancing products and banned substances unlike FIFA and the FA.
[i]I think cycling is doing more damage to itself by focusing far more on the past and not thinking of the future. The obsession with hanging up the dirty laundry of the past, rather than drawing a line and going forwards, will mean greater damage overall. [/i]
I think that was wrong in 1999 and it's wrong now.
To the outside world LA was cycling.Systematic doping in cycling had become the norm but LA had built almost a hero status outside our sport both he and his followers believed all the hype around him. His fall from grace to those outside cycling is massive and such gets more coverage than the rest of the dopers because of the sheer scale of the betrayal they feel. Remember millions of people donated money to live strong and bought LA branded kit. He courted media attention for financial gain and now has to pay the price
[b]TooTall[/b] - Member
I think cycling is doing more damage to itself by focusing far more on the past and not thinking of the future. The obsession with hanging up the dirty laundry of the past, rather than drawing a line and going forwards, will mean greater damage overall.
I think cycling has tried to brush it under the carpet (which is/was very wrong), it was the USADA which pursued this.
The press coverage is very topical, it's not about a moral issue now it's about taking away a "rich guys" money. If you take away Lance's earnings you have to take away everyone's prize money, wages etc.
I suspect some private actions will be brought to recover damages he won in court etc
There have been too many false dawns. Cycling can't define the agenda now as "draw a line under it and move on". Nor do I have ANY confidence that things are clean.
There's still no effective blood doping test. The bio passport is coming under scrutiny from influential people including some of the people involved in creating it. McQuaid as good as admitted yesterday that they still need a blood transfusion detection test.
We have a team like Sky dominating just like USPS used to, while working with doctors like Leinders who have been intimately involved with some of the most dirty teams of the past.
And would anyone like to remind me who just won the Vuelta?
Sorry, but the "we shouldn't dwell on the past" line suits those who were neck deep in it for the last decade-and-a-half, and are still running cycling today. The only thing that will change it is a revolution: truth and reconciliation, new team funding structure, a complete change in the UCI, new transparency.
There is noway that LA got away with it for over a decade without outside assistance. At the very least it would have been a very open secret in the Pelaton which means every team was at it by mutual agreement. I doubt very much that if they got away with it then then people aren't getting away with it now. Biometric passport? I bet theres a way round it.
"I think that successfully chasing the money Lance made is vital. That will be an important element in the process of deterring others from doping. It fraud (sponsors and public) and theft (from non dopers)"
should that include all the profits the sponsors made on the back of those wins?
contrary to Lance's belief he was the epitomy of cycling
Quiet the opposite. He happily regarded himself as both cycling and the peoloton, viz Bassons and Simeoni.
He was described by Emma O'Reilly as "too Alpha".
one thing makes me laugh in all this..............anyone with a iota of sense and any knowledge of cycling, knows that pro cycling has always been a drug fuelled sport.
from morphine and brandy in the early days, to speed and caffine in the 70's/80's, up to whatever is being used nowadays.
LA is quite rightly the icon-guy for all of cyclings problems at the moment. Big guys fall hardest and the enforcers of rules tend to go after the guys at the top. And the media like a simple story - 'biggest ever cheat' is a pretty good one to them. He put himself up there and now it's out of his hands.
Unfortunately the mainstream media doesn't really give a toss about cycling in this case, only the fall of a 'celebrity' and a cheating scandal.The news should be what is happening to cycling next ie. The future
If I was Lance I'd be typing a tell all book...got to be worth a few quid.
I think, ultimately, the media, and the general public, don't care about the sport of cycling: They are just interested in the "public interest" stories, the ones that make a good, scandalous read over their coffee and fat-free yoghurt in the morning.
As soon as this all dies down, they will continue to not care about cycling, and go back to reading about Cheryl Cole's struggle with Haribo addiction.
So, yes, to answer your point, the media are interested in the story for all the wrong reasons, but then again, they are interested in most things for the wrong reasons.
One problem that Armstrong will have is that the media hate knowing they've been fooled, and like to go after people who've deliberately fooled them.
[i]Falling down makes a great story but this should never have been about one man[/i]
It was all about one man when he was winning, he was happy for the focus to be all on him then.
I reckon he will either come clean with a big announcement and spill the full load of beans on the whole industry, or go away and top himself 😥
Haribo addiction
I had hoped mountain biking might be clean...
The only thing that will change it is a revolution: truth and reconciliation, new team funding structure, a complete change in the UCI, new transparency.
which will not happen.
Don't think armstrong would ever take the suicide route, I think he'll carry on with an undignified silence. Well until his next book comes out anyway.
It probably won't happen. This is probably the best chance for it to happen that we've had in a long time, but the fact that it's still odds-against is depressing.
More likely is that cycling manages to set the agenda that "we've drawn a line under those days, it's not the same as it used to be" and we all go along for a few more years, and suddenly the next scandal breaks and it turns out it has been JUST the same as it used to be.
Give it 5 years of watching clean racing, we'll be begging em to dope...
[i]Give it 5 years of watching clean racing, we'll be begging em to dope... [/i]
Why?
Sometimes you have to look back to go forward. The sad thing is there seems little going forward because our current UCI hasn't got a clue how to ensure this doesn't happen again. There will always be newer drugs that beat the system and teams that push their riders to take them. Surely when riders from a team are doping the team management should be held accountable as well. With this in mind I know if I was in charge I'd be more pro active in keeping my riders clean.
Just a thought but I'm sure there are many other ways forward.
www.followingthechainline.blogspot.com
like watching a sportive...Why?
No, it'll be like watching a race.
Right now, because the richest teams can afford the richest programmes, it's more like watching a F1 season where a single team dominates and leads each race from start to finish.
I reckon he will either come clean with a big announcement and spill the full load of beans on the whole industry
I doubt that. He's so well connected in the U.S. that the Federal case was dropped despite having the same levels of evidence (plus a bit, apparently) as USADA. That would have seen him, and several others, ruined & imprisoned for misuse of public funds.
A friend in Murrkah says consensus is that the administration cannot be seen to destroy a Murrken hero in election year aided by the fact that it is entirely possible that folk at the highest level were involved or, at least, complicit in the whole scheme.
As things stand, even if he has to pay back some of his earnings/winnings from those years he'll still live comfortably and remain a hero in the eyes of many.
I'd like to see him spill tbh - the fall out could be more far reaching than anyone dare imagine.
There is noway that LA got away with it for over a decade without outside assistance. At the very least it would have been a very open secret in the Pelaton which means every team was at it by mutual agreement. I doubt very much that if they got away with it then then people aren't getting away with it now. Biometric passport? I bet theres a way round it.
That's pretty much exactly what seems to have happened
Gary_M - Member
Don't think armstrong would ever take the suicide route, I think he'll carry on with an undignified silence. Well until his next book comes out anyway.
If he admits (and possibly even if he doesn't), the US Government could demand their money back, and are apparently entitled to sue for 4 times the amount. You won't see an admission any time soon.
The corrupt types who were complicit need rooting out - little hope of things changing otherwise.
The question that remains is - wht happens to the next person down the doping food chain? Do the authorities go after them, or do they sit back and bask in the glory of taking out the top man?
Well I am all for lance giving the money back. BUT ONLY, if anyone who made money out of it do the same...
[i]Do the authorities go after them, or do they sit back and bask in the glory of taking out the top man? [/i]
Which authorities?
USADA have blown apart a team-wide conspiracy... not just the "top man" (no matter what Team Armstrong have been briefing about it being a 'witch hunt'). They've unmasked multiple riders, doctors, and a big name team manager. But there aren't many significant US targets to go after.
Ferrari is under increasing pressure from Italian authorities and might well go to jail.
The Spanish police didn't get major convictions out of the Fuentes investigation but at least it blew apart that particular network.
And the UCI... er... ok. As you were.
like sky?No, it'll be like watching a race.
Right now, because the richest teams can afford the richest programmes, it's more like watching a F1 season where a single team dominates and leads each race from start to finish.
there needs to be as much focus on the team, surrounding the riders.
LA couldnt have achieved what he did without the help he recieved. Like it or not, he has/had the physical and mental build to succeed, he just needed that little extra help. Thats the planning, training, recovery, tactics, supplements etc.
The doctors, the directors even the team bus drivers have to see consequences if they encourage, allow or even turn a blind eye to illegal practice.
The media like it due to the timing, the conspiracy and scale of the crime, its like Jimmi, but the perp is alive so can be hounded. What JS did is a far worse crime, but he got away with it then died.