Forum menu
jameso
If the gravel bike is changed enough to make it ok in the techy stuff it’ll not be much good on road/gravel and the drops will still be a disadvantage to off-road riding compared to an MTB bar / brake lever set up.
This.
My gravel bike means I have totally different riding routes and experiences.
If I want to go mountain biking, I'll take my mountain bike.
I wonder if there's something about many folk riding FS and often 'big' and very capable enduro FS - and the gap between what that MTB is capable of technically and a skinny/drop bar gravel is just to big?
I have been living and commuting in london for the last 10 years
I'm not criticising your riding skills, just explaining how we do it. I have done a fair bit of London riding and I feel safer there than on many country roads. IMO safety isn't a question of traffic volume, it's about traffic speeds, road width and visibility.
If I want to go mountain biking, I’ll take my mountain bike.
But what if you want to go mountain biking and there's a 15 mile road ride to get to the trails you want to ride?
^^^^ I’d take my Vagabond..
But what if you want to go mountain biking and there’s a 15 mile road ride to get to the trails you want to ride?
That was 1990, before bikes were transported to locations via a motor-vehicle 😉
*edit (agrees with iainc, but plans that 15 miles of road instead to be 20-30 miles of minor roads and byways)
Or you just choose a bike and get on with it. To me at least, riding an MTB 15 miles on the road is fine, riding a track bike off road is fine. As long as I am riding I leave the overthinking, bike swapping, multiple bikes for slightly different uses to others and I just enjoy the actual riding.
I can see that. But also, for some of us, the thinking, questioning and planning the build is part of the fun.
However, like you say, once I'm out on it, it doesn't matter which bike it is if I'm having fun.
My gravel bike means I have totally different riding routes and experiences.
This is it I think - variety and accessibility of routes. I've found it interesting taking out my 29er with lighter XC-tread 2.2 tyres and a decent range of gears (vs it's normal EXO 2.4s and limited range old-school 1x off-road gearing) and riding the same areas I ride my relatively off-road capable 650B gravel bike. On most of these rides I just ride from the door, no pre-planned route. I find I stay off-road longer and go faster while off-road on the 29er, unsuprisingly. The interesting bit was realising that my 650B wasn't really the adventure bike many see them as - I tended to revert back to lanes and easy tracks for a break whereas on the 29er I was happy on lanes or steep rooty stuff with small drops etc so would just take any route that looked worth a try.
I've been to-froing between an MTB and a 'gravel' bike for almost 15 years now but what's changed in recent years is that my MTB has got more distance-orientated while my gravel bike has gained fatter tyres and more flared bars. That brings them closer together in some respects but in reality they're both better at what I want from them. On many rides the differences are more in my riding attitude/style than terrain.
Agree with the recent consensus(?) - if you have to ask the question then the answer is an XC hardtail. Gravel on 'true' gravel is fine, but if your goal is gnar fun then flat bars are infinitely more fun and just better than curly.
And as for the question of getting to the trails, I'd always felt that my Racing Ralphs rolled as well, if not better than, my 40c Nanos, which seems to be backed up by https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/mtb-reviews and https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/cx-gravel-reviews - the best XC tyres measure quicker than gravel tyres, in fact gravel tyres are surprisingly slow.
That leaves bars - well I ended up in a trail-sparse area during lockdown so got some https://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/HBOOMKB/on-one-mickey-handlebar which gave me some extra bar positions. I roll along at 18-20mph on the flat where I roll at 20-22 on a road bike. Oh, and I put a 38T on the front with an 11s 11-42 on the back which was fine for me and is quite a gravelly range really.
I can see the logic in building a bike to suit what I want to ride but what I want to ride it techy trails, but is that because I ride mountain bikes suited to that?
Like I said buy a gravel bike and see where it takes you rather than many on here who buy a gravel bike and then sell it and moan because it isnt good on mtb trails. The type you buy can be determined by other bikes you have, if you had say a roadie and a gnar full sus, get a gravel bike at the more xc mtb end of spectrum, if you have an xc mtb but no road bike get one at the roadish end of spectrum. Diversify your bikes and let the riding follow.
Matt
This.
My gravel bike means I have totally different riding routes and experiences.
If I want to go mountain biking, I’ll take my mountain bike.
I wonder if there’s something about many folk riding FS and often ‘big’ and very capable enduro FS – and the gap between what that MTB is capable of technically and a skinny/drop bar gravel is just to big?
Molgrips
But what if you want to go mountain biking and there’s a 15 mile road ride to get to the trails you want to ride?
MTB ... because of what you want to ride.
I had the same decision this week twice and I could have taken my road/hybrid thing that's on the Turbo... (technically I was dropping off and picking up the car buy near Swinley and the weather was nice and 80% "gravel" / 20% road split) .. obviously the option existed for 100% road which is probably 5 miles less.
I could easily ride Swinley on the "hyb-grav-3x8" thing ... especially in the dry but don't really think I'd enjoy it so much. (TBH you could probably ride it on a TT Tri bike and I've ridden it on the hybrid thing before (loaning a MTB to my bro) but it gets old fast)
Same the other way ... I can ride to Surrey Hills numerous ways from the door mainly way off road 25 miles or on road 20 miles. I've never really considered the road to Surrey Hills it seems so pointless like I'd get there, get a coffee and sit near some people wearing lycra and state longingly at the MTB's before turning round and coming home.
My Komoot would probably get called "road ride to Peaslake and back" not "Surrey Hills day out" and shallow as that might sound it would be an honest title just leaving out the word "boring" that if shared publicly could be substituted with "training".
This is because for me I'm riding Surrey Hills and getting there is incidental. If I wanted a socially distanced coffee I can ride 2 miles to a garden centre 95% off road or another 1/2m 95% off road.
edit: Matt
I wonder if there’s something about many folk riding FS and often ‘big’ and very capable enduro FS – and the gap between what that MTB is capable of technically and a skinny/drop bar gravel is just to big?
Partly ... I'll take my 100mm HT down most stuff albeit much slower and maybe hitting some bypasses on bigger drops.
Now I'm in edit... I guess there is the GMBN Blake Gravel episode at Windhill.
Blake (quite understandably IMHO) refuses a small drop into a berm (Feed em to the Lions) that is trivial even on a XC or DJ. It's just a small drop... something I've done on my kids 24" with 100mm (locked) and *I* can't even imagine doing it on a gravel... but more significant is Blake "ask me if I can ride this down that I don't mind getting hurt" Samson straight up declined.
But what if you want to go mountain biking and there’s a 15 mile road ride to get to the trails you want to ride?
This makes me realise how spoiled I am in variety and accessibility of trails from my door.
Ergo in your position, move house. 😉
I’ve been to-froing between an MTB and a ‘gravel’ bike for almost 15 years now
I know where you are coming from with this. Ive basically been doing the same the last 5/6, in fact I am sort of coming to the conclusion that the bike that offers the best overall compromise for the majority of my milage might actually be my most outdated MTB (geometry wise)
Modern MTBs are ace, but to get the same seat of pants thrill as I used to, I now go downhills much faster than I did, but that often seems pretty irresponsible where so many of my routes are shared with walkers/horse riders.
Ergo in your position, move house.
First one to Matt's gets the spare room.
I wonder, and ianc can probably help, are we really just down to tyre size? The difference in geo between the 3 bikes he has is chuff all, except maybe stand over.
It seems like 'gravel bike' is also gradually sliding into the mtb category. I can't remember the last time I saw gravel on a techie singletrack. I've always thought of gravel bikes as traversing rough surfaces fairly quickly for a longish time, in comfort, hence the drop bars..
If you want something singletrack capable with rocks and roots and drops, surely you need to look at flatbars?
The bike that most has my attention currently is the Knolly Cache is a 56. Other than being about 30mm longer, the numbers are not too different from my old Decade Tripster. That has a 100mm stem and the Knolly recommend around 60~70mm so it all sort of works out.
My Tripster has in the past, had panniers fitted and used to commute 10 miles each way in and out of Nottingham up and down the A610.
28mm Schwalbe One tubeless tyres used for training for and completing the Nottingham Outlaw ultra triathlon.
Riding the old blue book Great longstone loop with friends who were on a mix of hardtails and full sus bikes.
That sounds like it might actually be versatile enough.
I wonder, and ianc can probably help, are we really just down to tyre size?
Pretty much, I'd say. And weight distribution / riding position.
Sorry jameson, didn't mean to imply you were not equally as qualified to comment (possibly more so,) han ianc - it's just he has the 3 bikes
On riding position, you'd probably know better than me but it is my impression that drop bar frames are all getting slightly shorter, with a bit more stack and as a result a slightly more slopog top tube because everyone is moving away from the arse up head down stretched out style of old school road bikes.
Partly comfort, partly improved ridability, partly different uses (gravel etc)
So even that is moving toward a more homogeneous place.
If you want something singletrack capable with rocks and roots and drops, surely you need to look at
flatbarshardtail
Or flatbars and hardtail!
(Tbh I never think of flatbars as anything other than hardtail, everything else is FS. *ducks*)
The bike that most has my attention currently is the Knolly Cache is a 56. Other than being about 30mm longer, the numbers are not too different from my old Decade Tripster. That has a 100mm stem and the Knolly recommend around 60~70mm so it all sort of works out.
That Knolly is well nice! Flat bars on a gravel bike are where its at for me. I run some 780s on my brother with 110 stem as I hate drop bars. With spesh offering their Diverge with flatbars I think its gonna be more common.
On riding position, you’d probably know better than me but it is my impression that drop bar frames are all getting slightly shorter, with a bit more stack and as a result a slightly more slopog top tube because everyone is moving away from the arse up head down stretched out style of old school road bikes.
This is true, but it's more a reflection on the weekend warrior style of rider who gets on a drop bar bike and feels uncomfy because he/she isn't used to it. The same thing happened with road bikes, especially from the US, when people got the cycling thing and then struggled to be comfy.
The problem is that raising the front end of a drop bar bike messes with the geometry and weight distribution, and makes them less capable.
Watch cyclocross, watch people who can ride drop bars...
I wonder, and ianc can probably help, are we really just down to tyre size? The difference in geo between the 3 bikes he has is chuff all, except maybe stand over.
It is largely tyre size, though the vagabond has a much higher front end that the Fugio and the CDF. Vagabond feels like a MTB more than a road bike whereas the other 2 are much more of a road feel.
Run a dropper on my Gravel bike, great for when the terrain gets a bit steep or a bit more technical than you were expecting
Best thing about a gravel bike is you can just go for a road ride, see a path/track and just see where it goes, i can get down most trails albeit a bit slower and more cautiously than i would on a mtb
I found my XC bike was a real compromise, off road it was great, did what it was designed to do unless it got very rooty/bumpy (im used to a 160mm travel e-mtb that smashes through everything)
On road the XC bike was slow and because i was running low pressures for when off road it you could feel the tyres flexing around when putting the power down on the road, with my nearest off road route being 5-10 miles away this was a real chore and the reason i sold it and kept the gravel bike
Glad I'm not the only one going through this.
I realised yesterday quite what a lucky boy I am in terms of local estate/forest roads that I could ride from home or with a shortish drive. But.......gear range will need to be good as I used the whole of my old school 2X10 mtbs range off road and some of it is rough enough that something with too slim/low volume a tyre would be a handful with trashed rims very soon. Also, wet gritty estate roads are a destroyer of worlds drivetrains.
The old first gen Niner Sir9 with a Rohloff and Koga Denham bar might just be answer if run with relatively road friendly rubber for routes that are mostly off road if I ever finish building the bloody thing back together. Then add a proper gravel bike for 50/50 off & on road routes at a later date when finances allow.
The best advice I got was buy a bike that just does what I want, and don't try to make it into something else.
So I bought a Planet X Full Monty. Alloy frame, carbon fork, drops, discs, 1x11 and 36c tyres for £800. Main theory was if I didn't like it, I'd sell it and only lose a few hundred quid.
It is perfect for lanes, farm tracks, estate roads, fireroads and less-techy singletrack - and if need-be, quite happy on tarmac. It does nothing perfectly, but is capable of pretty much anything.
I also did the Cairngorm loop on it as per 13thfloormonk, and was a better bike choice than my pal on a HT MTB.
Now 'upgraded' to 43C tyres, flared drops and a carbon post.
I've done a couple of 100k 'gravel' rides but mainly it kept me sane during lockdown going out every lunch (luckily I live in the country just off the Tweed Valley) for lots of 1-2 hour local rides (usually +40% offroad).
Oh, and gearing is 42 11-42 - more than enough to get up any hill (where there's traction), just a bit slow top end for tarmac.
The best advice I got was buy a bike that just does what I want, and don’t try to make it into something else.
^ this
It's a 15-25 mile ride to the trails but the key for me is I'm riding to the trails.
Getting there is just a bit of much needed fitness and a means to an end.
Sorry jameson, didn’t mean to imply you were not equally as qualified to comment (possibly more so,) han ianc – it’s just he has the 3 bikes
Ha, no not taken that way at all - I was just butting in.
Riding is riding, the more genres the better imo.
The bike should be a gnar are the buyer wants it to be.
Save your money and stick a 24T or 26T granny ring on the Tripster?
I think buying a "bit of a keeper" in a bike genre that you are not sure what you want from, is a high risk bit of purchasing, and you may be better off experimenting with what you have first to establish what it is you want the bike to do for you.
Best thing about a gravel bike is you can just go for a road ride, see a path/track and just see where it goes, i can get down most trails albeit a bit slower and more cautiously than i would on a mtb
This is what I enjoy. My gravel bike is listed more as an all road bike. But the larger volume tyres make gravel sections/off road more than possible.
As quoted, sometimes you get in slightly deeper than intended, at least I have, but it was rewarding enough.