[Closed] Just how gnar should a gravel bike be?

Light carbon 29er hardtail might work just as well

Tyres are the thing. If you live somewhere rocky, get something with 50c/2.0 tyres. Otherwise less. A dropper will allow you to do more tech than you otherwise would, for no real disadvantage in road terms.

It also depends on if you want to feel like a road rider who can do a bit of off-road, or an off-roader who's not too bad on road.

^yep

1. Define desired/expected terrain (type and ratio/percentage/max gnar-limit)
2. ^ Identify tyre-clearance required
3. Pick bike
4. If can’t decide on max gnar-limit then a Bearclaw Beaux Jaxon is the answer 🍻

It also depends on if you want to feel like a road rider who can do a bit of off-road, or an off-roader who’s not too bad on road.

This all day. Don't neglect the bikes on road ability as that's the biggest reason for getting one over a xc or rigid mtb in my opinion.

Totally agree that the tyres are the thing with these bikes. I was surprised at how capable the SB8s at 35mm were. I think if I was considering 50mm tyres, that would put me back into MTB territory. With nothing to really base it on, I'm imagining 40-45mm being typical.

The road ability is a good comment. I kind of think of mountain biking as being a combination of feature trails and linking trails used to minimise road. But on a gravel bike, do the linking trails become feature trails and the quieter roads become the linking trails?

The Knolly Ti Cashe looks interesting, as does the Bearclaw Thunderhawk, but I do wonder if they might be too much bike.

I've got a Tripster on 40c tyres, it does everything my mountain bike does except rooty tight singletrack where a wet root would have you off before you realised what happened. In thick winter mud it's a joy as the thinner tyres cut straight through it rather than it turning into a 3mph slog.

For MTB type stuff a dropper helps, but I took mine off in the end as it was an £80 and started to find the slight side to side movement annoying as it felt like the bike was stepping out when going fast.

The WTB Venture 50c’s I had on mine are surprisingly quick on the road. Not road bike quick of course but much quicker than any mountain bike I’ve had. Tyre pressure obviously makes a big difference too. If I’m expecting more road and light off road I’ll pump them up else leave them softer for grip. Got 2.2’s on the bike now though.

Interesting question raised by the OP. To me, it comes down to if you have an XC mtb or not and what kind of terrain you'll be using the gravel bike on. I joined the gravel/all road club this summer after working from home since the start of lockdown and no longer riding to work. I used to ride to work on a singlespeed road bike, this was frustrating on the longer rides I was then doing from my front door on weekday lunch times and evenings.

As I have an XC mtb (Kona Hei Hei Race DL) I saw no point in getting a 'full gravel' 650B 50-odd mm tyre'd, dropper post 1x gravel bike. The local front door riding from me involves some A roads, lots of B roads, lanes and some bridleways. I ended up getting a Norco Search XR A1 (700C x38 mm tyres and 2x Shimano GRX gearing) which to me, sits towards the 'less gravel' end of the gravel bike scale. Its great on the roads the bridleways on my local rides, though obviously the 38 mm tyres have their limits on rougher stuff.

I did the same XC/gravel ride recently on both the XC mtb and the Norco. It had some road bits, some gravely bits and some definite mtb bits. I had more fun and was faster overall on the XC mtb than the gravel bike. To me, losing out a little on the road bits with the extra weight and tyre drag of the XC mtb but having the capability to fully enjoy the mtb bits was better than the other way round on the Norco, which was great on the road and gravely bits but quite out of its depth on the mtb bits.

I ran a Vagabond on 35s for road commute, but in woods and on tracks/back roads used 2.1 Nanos. In all honesty preferred the 2.1s on most stuff including potholed country lanes. Versatile. But that was a monstercross/ATB and a slow one on tarmac.

As of now have a 531 retro road tourer on 28c and a rigid ‘gravel’-friendly 29er MTB on 2.2” Race Kings. That neing the case, not sure N+1 gravel-bike would suit my current needs but have considered consolidating those 2 bikes into one suoer-versatile gravel/monstercross/tourer if such exists. Although I know I’d miss the retro tourer the most. So it probably wouldn’t happen - if anything the 29er would be switched for a gravel/monstercross.

Above considered, then I’d probably want 50c clearance to cover most bases. In gravel-terms I’m more an ATB bimbler/roughstuff tourer and would typically do 70/40 surfaced/unsurfaced > 50k, also bikepacking.

Again, it depends entirely on your planned terrain and surface mix. If I was a typical road-whippet looking for some occasional gritty fun then I’d probably be looking at a carbon thing such as a Cannondale Topstone with 38c

Just to suggest something different - how about a traditional touring bike ? Or a modern one > some can take fat tyres, all have a massive range of gears and ability to take racks and mudguards. They are more road and smooth track oriented, but people have been going all over the world on them and on very rough rocks since the bike was invented
I see the gravel bike as a development of the tourer. An expedition tourer with 26" mtb wheels can go anywhere.
Theres never ben so much choice, except the shops have sold out.

It really is an interesting question,
Essentially, you have to decide which parts you’re willing to compromise.
Thinner/harder tyres will be faster on road but more sketchy (or extremely exciting, depending on your point of view) off road.
2x11 probably a bit better on road, whereas 1xwhatever probably better off it.
Do you go for roadie levels of lightweight, or mtb levels of versatility/durability?
There’s no right or wrong answer really, one mans meat is another’s poison innit.

Light carbon 29er hardtail might work just as well

I wish I had a quid for every time someone asks about gravel bikes and someone responded with either this or just get a ridged 29er. No matter how light a hardtail 29er is there is no way I want draggy mtb tires on a 50+ mile ride thats split between road and bridal way.

I did a review of a Fustle Causeway GR1 & loved it so much I bought a frameset. Proper mtbers gravel bike, slacker angles, long & designed for a short stem and wider bar. Plenty of tire clearance too. Don't think the mods will allow me to add a link to it though

Interesting question indeed. I have 3 gravel bikes, ranging from a burly Vagabond, with 29 x 2.1s, which is used mainly for adventures and bikepacking, through a Fugio 30, with 650x47s and a dropper, which is just so much fun on mixed terrain, to a CDF30, with 700x35s, Ultegra and 105 roadish setup and a lovely carbon fork.

They all get used a lot and for me, have minimal overlap.

I also have 2 other bikes, both e, a Spesh Levo SL and a Spesh Creo SL.

Unlikely to change any of them soon as all types of my riding are covered, and I can choose the bike to suit my planned ride, and my state of health...

I wish I had a quid for every time someone asks about gravel bikes and someone responded with either this or just get a ridged 29er.

Assuming suitable rims you could put narrow tyres on a rigid 29er. I think most people suggest a 29er is because they don’t see any sense in/don’t like drop-bars of any type.

No matter how light a hardtail 29er is there is no way I want draggy mtb tires on a 50+ mile ride thats split between road and bridal way.

32c fast tyres then? < Purely for sake of argument. I’m in the ‘like drops on a 50/50 bike’ camp. I’d think gearing/geo to be more significant with MTB vs gravel as a tyre-change is usually a comparatively trivial matter given clearance.

I think if I was considering 50mm tyres, that would put me back into MTB territory.

Well there's a bit more to it than tyre size. With an MTB you are likely these days to get slacker geometry, which I think is worse on road. I have 70.5 HA on my MTB but they aren't common any more. Whereas gravel bikes seem to be on the steeper side. This has an effect when riding on road. Steep angles seem somehow 'better' but I cannot quite figure out why.

The other thing that distinguishes gravel bikes and MTBs is gears. You might not be able to fit a big chainring on an MTB, and you might be limited to boosted stuff which might restrict you to MTB groupsets, cassettes and such. You are less likely to be able to fit a front mech. But there are still 'hybrids' even between gravel and MTBs.

there is no way I want draggy mtb tires on a 50+ mile ride

Then fit fast MTB tyres. They are available, you don't have to run Minion DHFs. I'm happy to do 50 miles on mixed road/off road on 2.3s Ralphs, but that's because when I get to the trails they are rough, and occasionally linked up with steep singletrack.

Like a few have said, first ask yourself the question "Is it mainly road, mainly off-rod or 50/50 mix" that you're going to be riding the bike on. Tyre choice follows on from that.

I'm about 50/50 and have found Conti Terra Speeds seem quite good. Though to be honest I haven't ridden many other cross bike tyres so don't have a lot to compare them with.

I've a HT which I use as MTB.

I decided I wanted a tarmac, forest road and estate road/mountain double track bike. I don't need the gnar, that's what my HT is for.

What I did want was comfy, faster on road, able to take a rack, tyres & rims that wouldn't wince at a few ill-timed rocks under tubby me and discs, as I couldn't be faffed with rim brakes any more.

I slowly came around to drop bars after a couple of years riding on them, I'm still not completely sold, but get why getting a bit lower helps in wind.

after a couple of years riding on them, I’m still not completely sold,

I’d definitely be looking at some different drops or even an alt bar after a two year test run and still not convinced. Maybe a loop bar or something like the Koga Denham?

When I changed the Vagabond to a Longitude the first thing I missed were the drop bars/multiple hand positions. Since buying a touring bike I still miss the drops on the Vagabond, they were just particularly comfortable. I plan to check out the geo on those Genesis bars and fit similar on the tourer (which currently has some 410mm Sakae rando bars).

Also have a Geoff loop bar on the 29er when bikepacking, which gives a small pseudo-tuck position, but they are hefty and wide.

My mate has got an All City gravel bike with 1x, pretty wide flared drop bars and some reasonably nobbly tyres - nothing stupid though and perfectly fine on the road.

I don't think he's anywhere near where he would be on his road bike in terms of road pace but not a million miles away and I was very impressed with what he could ride on a recent trip to the peak District.
There were some sections that were a bit too techy, but not many.

But on a gravel bike, do the linking trails become feature trails and the quieter roads become the linking trails?

That's how it is for my pals and I, we use quiet back roads to link up bridleway/canal/fields/light off road/etc. If the ride is more off and a little naughty the MTB comes out.

Only you will know!

I built mine with an eye on fast and light but also longer distances (relatively high bars and a suspension seatpost to look after my back).

I plot all my routes with the goal of 100% gravellable tracks, e.g. nothing gnarly steep or ridiculously rocky or slow going. I want to ride like I'm on a road bike but with the variety of surfaces and scenery that gravel riding offers.

Of course, routes in Scotland never play ball, so I've never yet ended up with a long day out that hasn't featured a sort of 45/45/10% split of tarmac, gravel and muddy/rocky/steep bits.

The good thing is, you can happily put up with a compromised bike on those bits as you know you'll make good progress on the rest of the route, they become a sort of 'crux' that makes a route work, e.g. the singletrack at the top of the Gaick Pass, the Glen Tilt gorge singletrack, the Loch Builg singletrack etc.

Gaick

Tilt

If you built the bike for those sections then the remaining 90% of the ride would be compromised instead!

On a big trip recently I did start to pine for a set of suspension forks, the last hour or so was just a plummet down Glen Tilt and should have been a blast on my bike as it is, but after 4 days my wrists were starting to protest so instead of a long scenic downhill time trial it sort of became a bit of wince and then pootle. Will be investing in a suspension stem at least but starting to see the sense of e.g. a Salsa Cutthroat or something.

It was my Trek Superfly 29er that got me into gravel, but to use that I would miss the position of the drop bars, the smoothness of the 2x drivetrain, possibly the (relative) aero and the nimble handling of the CX frameset, I'm not sure if it would be as fun tucking down and sticking the knee out as you try to hold the inside line on a fast fireroad bend if you were on a longer slacker MTB frame.

 I want to ride like I’m on a road bike but with the variety of surfaces and scenery that gravel riding offers.

This is pretty much exactly where im at. Got a Brother Kepler which used to just be my commuter now with lockdown its been changed into a gravel bike doing rides from my house. The idea of doing road fills me with dread cycle to my lbs today and got cut up twice and close passed once. I don't know how roadies do 100 odd miles on a road and enjoy it.

I don’t know how roadies do 100 odd miles on a road and enjoy it.

Choose your route carefully, and also ride defensively.

If you built the bike for those sections then the remaining 90% of the ride would be compromised instead!

Yeah but for me it's a 5% compromise on two thirds of the mileage vs a 50% compromise on one third of it.

It's all about preference. I love riding my big tyres all over the place, and my riding position, stretched out with narrow high-sweep bars is great even on road. The only slight downer is the 1x11 drivetrain, which I could totally fix with 2x. But I'm saving up for 1x12 which should remove that issue. But I recognise that's just my preference. 37c tyres on my local trails *for me* would not work well.

I like speed and I like working hard, and whilst I'd be a bit faster on road I'd be much much slower on the trails and I wouldn't have the ability to ride at the level of physical exertion I want. I'd have to take too much care and end up having to curtail my exertion.

Choose your route carefully, and also ride defensively.

dude, I have been living and commuting in london for the last 10 years im a pretty confident cyclists, But cars plus the general state of our roads I don't get why anyone would do it.

Choose your route carefully, and also ride defensively.

dude, I have been living and commuting in london for the last 10 years im a pretty confident cyclist

That’ll do it. I dislike roads over a certain size and near a certain population. Used to commute around Birmingham and although can do it I prefer not to unless on cyclepaths and backstreets. Feel fortunate that from a rural town I can ride directly on to rural lanes that spread out 60-100+ miles in most directions. 30c tyres will deal with most of them. You have to choose your routes but it’s normally possible to avoid busy A and B roads and/or city-traffic. I see road cyclists on main roads and just wince. Was nearly wiped out (in our car) two days ago from a head-on Disco that had just overtaken a road cyclists on the approaching bend. I saw the cyclists before I saw him so luckily slowed ‘just in case’ some ****er was overtaking on the bend. He was. Still a near miss. It’s more regular theses days.

I have been trying to figure this out for a long time. A Cdf vs fugio vs vagabond for instance. The fugio got mixed reviews but I think largely down to the wheels/tyres. I saw the Cotic Escapade described as road plus whereas the fugio was mtb minus. Other than the oddly shaped chainstay the biggest difference was one was on 650 x 50 and the other 700 x 40 ish. The headtube on the fugio is a bit slacker maybe.
Once you get away from the lower stack roadie geo, towards the higher stack that is increasingly popular (the surly cross check has gone to a higher stack because commuters were putting on a lot of spacers to get more upright for riding in traffic) seems like the biggest differences are frame material, wheel/ tyre size and flared bars.

Given that I've gradually been increasing the tyre size on my road bike to make it more useful and durable (I'd go bigger but I'm maxed out) I don't know why anyone would ride less than 32/35mm unless you are in the TdF.

I don’t know why anyone would ride less than 32/35mm unless you are in the TdF.

This is so true. For years I ran 25s on an ali single speed. the bike was rapid but if i didn't see a pot hole or something in the road i felt like i was gonna snap my collar bone. Im so over racing through town now I run 38s and just take it really relaxed.

I had a cotic escapade with 700 x 40 nanos. It was a great do it all Bike but the tyre size was maxed out. I enjoyed the gravel bike / Do it all concept so much I fancied a new nice bike after 5 yrs on the cotic. I had test ridden and then bought a Bombtrack hook extc which runs 650b 50mm wtb ventures. It’s great. It’s as quick as the cotic on gravel and comfier. It’s a hoot to ride and the extra volume means going faster on the rougher bits. I don’t think I’d want wider tyres than those. I’m down south and have miles of farm tracks and gravel forest roads in west hants and east dorset linked by little back lanes and bridleways. Perfect territory for a gravel bike.

For years I ran 25s o

I have a couple of road bikes from the late 80s/early 90s - for years I ran 20s on them cos that's what they came with. Then I moved up to 23. Now one is on 25 because that's the biggest that will fit. The other is on 28s. Any difference in speed is entirely down to the engine.

Cdf vs fugio vs vagabond for instance.

As I said earlier in the thread I have all 3 of these and use them all. For me, the Vagabond is a 29er HT MTB with drops. A workhorse for adventures a yet good fun on trails that are not too techy. The CDF is used for winter road, road touring and bigger rides that involve mix of road, fireroad and easy trails. The Fugio can do a bit of everything but for me is at its best unladen and on forest path and singletrack adventures, which are often joined up by road sections.

If I look at all 3, on the 5 mile back road sections from home to local windfarm, the vagabond is maybe 2mph slower than the CDF and then on a 20 mile gravel spin round the turbines, it is 2mph faster ...

Overall the Fugio, on same run, is faster and the most fun.

I don’t know why anyone would ride less than 32/35mm unless you are in the TdF.

28 are the sweetspot for me, my gravel bike has 32mm slicks on its road wheels my current ebay special roadie has 25mm on, its a fun fast ride, as long as you look where you are going and "ride light" through rough sections its fine..

To the op, try looking at it from another angle, rather than try and buy a bike to fit your riding, buy uy a bike you want and find out what works for it. If your current riding suits a mtb and you buy a bike to suit it, you'll get a mtb! The bike could evolve your riding to suit it...bottom line is how gnar is up to you. My diverge is quite roadie but also surprisingly capable when asked.

Lots of great advice above and I think that the 'gravel' type bike now has nearly as many niche's as mountain bikes (apparently my ritchey logic road bike was designed to be able to ride gravel roads in America and that can only take 28mm tyres!).

My advice - probably mentioned a few times above - is buy a bike that best suits the terrain that you mostly plan to ride on it.

I was in a similar position earlier this year, I had a few different mountain and road bikes plus a Croix de fer. But fancied something that was as capable as the Croix de fer but lighter and faster and more fun.

I ride mostly from my front door and have lots of easy trails and small rough roads so don't need tyres any bigger that 40mm. I also fancied trying a few cross races as my kids also race cross so I built a cross bike up with 38mm treaded tyres. I love it! It's so fast and fun off-road but still decently quick on road so can do a sizable loop in a couple of hours. It does get out of its depth pretty quickly on more techy trails though but I just avoid those bits. I recently lent my cross bike to a pal for a trip up near Braemar, he also has a Croix de fer, he was really impressed with my bike and is now looking to buy something similar.

Maybe try a few different bikes out to see what you fancy?

@p7eaven that Bearclaw Beaux Jaxon looks spot on for UK conditions.

When people are talking about clearance for 50mm tyres, are they talking 700c, or 650b? I'd imagined this bike being 700c but that's something else I'm starting to question.

I can see the logic in building a bike to suit what I want to ride but what I want to ride it techy trails, but is that because I ride mountain bikes suited to that? I'm thinking that a less capable bike will bring interest and enjoyment to less technical trails.

a less capable bike will bring interest and enjoyment to less technical trails.

It can do, but there's a world of difference between my rigid 29er and my 650x47 gravel bike off-road on anything remotely technical or steep. One is a rewarding, fun challenge. The other is a sketchy handful that is out of it's depth in the wrong element and just feels fairly pointless very quickly.

Just how “gnar” should a gravel bike be?

How 'gnar' can you ride on the drops with your weight that far forward? If the answer is not much / enough, a 29er is the answer. If the gravel bike is changed enough to make it ok in the techy stuff it'll not be much good on road/gravel and the drops will still be a disadvantage to off-road riding compared to an MTB bar / brake lever set up.

Gravel bike didn’t work for me. Found it compromised too much off road(maybe my fault) found a fully rigid 29’r way more capable and fun.

For me and the gravel and easy off road I ride not very gnar at all. I ride a 74 degree heard angle bike with 25c tyres and am very happy on it and ride everywhere I rode an MTB when I had one many years ago.

I can see the logic in building a bike to suit what I want to ride but what I want to ride is techy trails,

Lightweight XC bike on techy trails?

I’m thinking that a less capable bike will bring interest and enjoyment to less technical trails.

It can, but as Jameso says the novelty wears off quickly on technical trails.

kerley:

with 25c tyres and am very happy on it and ride everywhere I rode an MTB when I had one many years ago.

Mileages/terrain vary. OTOH, I have 28c tyres on the tourer and find that anything with ruts and potholes etc has me either slowing right down or trying to micro-hop everything. It’s a ‘different’ type of riding and not really like the ATB I had many years ago (1.75”/45c)

I was chatting to a guy yesterday and he was talking about recently trying gravel riding and expressed how technically difficult he found it compared to his usual road cycling. He still enjoyed it and now wants to improve his off-roading skills and asked about mountain bikes.

Seems we may have a full circle going on, roadies coming to mountain biking and mountain bikers going to road cycling, which is all good.

It would be interesting to have the same question as the OP's but on a road biased cycling forum, wonder how the responses would differ from here.

When people are talking about clearance for 50mm tyres, are they talking 700c, or 650b?

On my bike at least (Kona Sutra LTD), I’m running 700c x 50c, though as per an earlier reply, have put some 29 x 2.25’s on it to see how it goes.