[Closed] Jones: Worth selling rest of your bikes for?

Easier? Faster? More comfortable?
Misses the point - [b]in my opinion[/b].

I respect other peoples' choices.
Not at all surprised by the bigotry.
Just a shame it stretches to [b]push bikes[/b].

One of several

Wheel barrows? 😆

Misses the point - in my opinion.

I really want a go on one because I need to see what the point is in spending more money on something slower, more uncomfortable and less easy to ride.

you do get a lot of (sometimes maybe un-wanted) attention on a Jones, I rode most of the K100 with Biff, and he was constantly asked about his, and his answer summed it enough for ME to want one,if I remember correctly, it was " makes me smile like a new bike does, EVERY time I ride it..." like I said before, I dont have the passion for Bikes at the mo, but when it comes back it will be on a Jones.

Easier? Faster? More comfortable?
Misses the point - in my opinion.

So it's not about how it rides, it's more of a lifestyle/fashion thing?

Not at all surprised by the bigotry.

The bigotry of snobby niche purists who look down on people for riding mainstream brands?

I see no looking down on anyone.

Ride what ever you want no one cares.

DBW, I could justify a steel jones a lot more easily than most sussers that cost a fair bit more, only a personal opinion tho and it's my money. But really who cares, spending money on anything like this could be seen as daft, it's a bike for grown men riding around in the mud, pointless unless it makes you happy.

So it's not about how it rides, it's more of a lifestyle/fashion thing

Biff nxt issue ready for ssUK's or ssEuros ? 😉

[i]The bigotry of snobby niche purists who look down on people for riding mainstream brands?[/i]

Sorry, how does "[b]I respect other peoples' choices[/b]" read to you?

[i]So it's not about how it rides, it's more of a lifestyle/fashion thing?[/i]

Not at all, but getting to the bottom of the hill as quickly and easily as possible isn't of paramount importance to me and my idea of fun might not tally with yours. I find a Jones very comfortable, a great ride. My cycling isn't about speed and **** all to do with fashion or lifestyle (whatever that is). I've had a Jones for nine years - so I must be out of fashion now surely?

[b]Keef[/b] - next issue before the end of March.

I've had a Jones for nine years - so I must be out of fashion now surely?

Yes. Sorry to be blunt but this isn't about fashion.

I'm a firm believer in personal choice, but for some reason there's a fantasism about this style of bike that is annoying.

People who ride this type of bike are looking for something beyond innovation, beyond fashion. It clearly doesn't matter if there's a better tool for the job either.

People who ride this type of bike are the Amish of mountain biking. And that is cool. Just don't try to persuade the world of your religion.

They are very expensive (fact) and very ugly (opinion).

Biff, no worries really, and your response is open and reasonable as i expected. i haven't mailed you. figured you could do with a dig in the ribs though. glad to hear there's more good ( bad ) 5hit in the post. see you in dorset? we're bringing beer. come have a pint. bring your weird bike. i may want a go. 😉

[b]Del[/b] - sweet.

[b]S****[/b] - Out of fashion was a joke (coming after my **** all to do with fashion comment) seeing as nine years doesn't fit with the '2012 range' or '2013 range' the industry is prone to - not my kind of cycles. And religion? Again, struggling to see how "[b]I respect other peoples' choices[/b]" is any crusade. I abhor religion. Frame and forks starting at £815 (not very expensive).
[i]
Better tool for the job?[/i] Helping hand please - [b]the[/b] job? My job? Your job? Big jobby? It's riding a bike isn't it?

People who ride this type of bike are the Amish of mountain biking. And that is cool. Just don't try to persuade the world of your religion.

It's a bit beyond me why people who don't want to read about Jones bikes are hanging out in a thread about Jones bikes.

Haha Amish 😆

This can be a funny old place at times. It's a bike being discussed on the interwebz where most people haven't got a clue how good others are on their respective bikes nor what type of terrain they ride. It's the rider and terrain, not the bike. Ride what you want, where you want, if you're having fun then great. Fun on a bike doesn't always have to involve going as fast as possible down a root infested run with berms and jumps, something which a lot of the Jones haters seem to forget. It can be taking a rigid bike down the same run, probably slower and closer to the limit of control but still having a great time. Hell it can be pootling along enjoying the fresh air and views. You know what, where and how you ride and you pick your bike based on that or your aspirations. Is there really any point in slating other designs/bikes though? There was a question posted and presumably someone looking for some help in their dithering. The owner of a downhill race rig and latest 150mm 'trail weapon' chiming in with 'they're ugly tat' is hardly helpful but apparently makes poeple feel good.

Whether it's expensive, well i guess it is relative to other steel framed rigid bikes, particularly since you need a spangly hub as well. However it is not expensive in the grand scheme of bikes when you start including full sus frames. But whatever, just because you don't want to spend that much on a bike that you don't perceive to have all the bells and whistles of modern bike design doesn't mean someone else is stupid for doing so.

I'm not being daft, I genuinely am interested in riding one because I'm genuinely interested to see what makes them so special.

I wonder if people who feel the need to be agressive about their choices, defensive about those of others, or downright nasty about such a trivial topic really have bigger problems in their lives.

Someone happy in themselves has no reason to behave that way, it seems to me.

Or it could just be friendly 'banter' and pee taking?

DBW, sorry if I read your post wrong then.. It's rigid and lo-tech but the handling is addictive levels of fun as well as a challenge to get the best from. It also seems to encourage a good riding style from me, smoother and more flowy, if not as fast as a susser at times. That's what makes it special imo.
(And just to please the the accusers of swivel-eyed cult-dom.. other bikes may also offer this mix of traits in a different package, but if you like this one particularly, there's only one way of getting that ride)

Or it could just be friendly 'banter' and pee taking?

Well yes....

I ride an Orange 5 and I care not one jot whether people keep saying it's ugly or it looks like a filing cabinet. And (here lyeth the difference) I don't get all evangelical in its defence.

Fa[s]t[/s]d bikes are nothing special. If we all loved them then they wouldn't be so niche-tastic for those that do.

Just checking back to make sure this had descended in to a "your bike is wrong" fight. Seems like we have moved beyond that to the calming and reasonable stage.

So....

Sam my Saturday lad rode the jones in a wiggle offroad sportive. At the start line there were these guys on bland normal bikes mocking the kid. Tossers with no class, who had no idea what they were looking at. It also turned out they could not ride for shit.

Hahaha 😆

I know a lot of jones riders and have owned one myself, there great frames, there fun, the people that ride them are tits
😉

Sam my Saturday lad rode the jones in a wiggle offroad sportive. At the start line there were these guys on bland normal bikes mocking the kid. Tossers with no class, who had no idea what they were looking at. It also turned out they could not ride for shit.

So again, almost certainly friendly banter from the people on 'bland' bikes (no snobbery implied there eh) is taken far too seriously. They have no class because they don't know about a niche bike brand? Hmmm....

My cycling isn't about speed and **** all to do with fashion or lifestyle (whatever that is). I've had a Jones for nine years - so I must be out of fashion now surely?

Don't really mean fashion in the sense of the fad of the moment, I more mean its a 'statement' bike, it's not just about how they ride is it. People buy stuff like this because they want to define themselves as being different to the crowd. Not necessarily anything wrong with that (if you can manage it without being a snob), but no-one ever wants to admit it.

Yayyyyyy grums here

I find myself agreeing with Biff and Jameso, my aim is not to go as fast and smooth as possible down as gnarly as possible. It's not what I'm looking for in my riding.

Does that mean I need to buy a Jones then?

People buy stuff like this because they want to define themselves as being different to the crowd.

Even I'm getting confused now.

So owning a Jones isn't about speed. It isn't about smoothness. Or technical ability. It isn't about where you ride or whether you're Amish or not.

It's about defining yourself?

What as? Niche?

Thanks for telling me my own mind.

I'm obviously not saying this is the only factor for every single person who buys a Jones. This is a pretty commonly recognised thing in psychology/branding etc though, I'm not just making it up.

Any of this sound familiar?

For younger, more democratic luxury consumers, “exclusivity” has negative connotations of snobbery and manufactured scarcity. Exclusivity for its own sake is not what the growing market of young luxury consumers value. What they prefer, according to Danziger, is “an exclusiveness derived from the ability to express a personal point of view, an attitude and one’s uniqueness.”

The luxury brands that have been most successful in their use of social and mobile media marketing have recognised the importance of the “new exclusivity” and have build their digital presence around their customers’ strong emotional connections to – and identification with – that brand.

http://www.tamba.co.uk/blog/why-luxury-brands-should-embrace-social-media-tamba-kay-hammond/

So owning a Jones isn't about speed. It isn't about smoothness. Or technical ability. It isn't about where you ride or whether you're Amish or not.

It's about defining yourself?

What as? Niche?

It is about speed. The ti SF can be very effective for long distance rides. It's a very quick bike on my local Chilterns loops.

It is about smoothness - I like micro-tech, ie making a section of roots a test of hops or manuals, linking little transitions, playing around on the features. Any bike can do that but rigid makes it feel more precise and rewarding to me. The bike's geometry does encourage a smooth, flowy riding style that suites 29er / SS, more so than others I've ridden. The SF adds a springy smoothness too but that's a small part of the package imo.

It is about technical ability too, the Jones almost makes a mockery of other rigid bikes in technical situations. I don't think there's many bikes out there I can ride for 100+ miles as well as performing so well technically. I rode some slo-mo rocky tech in the PDS area that I found easier than on a susser a couple of years earlier. As the speed went up I struggled more but I'm ok with that compromise since I'm often riding tired and take less risks then.

And most importantly it does feel fun and involving no matter what I do on it, I never get bored of riding it. That's unusual, I do ride a lot of different bikes as well as spend a lot of time working on more commercial/normal bike designs as a day job and the Jones appeals to me both as a bike rider and designer.

Strange old one this. I don't understand the concept that people would want to define themselves as "different" by the bike they ride? I have owned some truly fantastic bikes from super expensive sily light xc race bikes through to top end high tech full suspension. The bikes I like are the ones that make me enjoy my riding the most. If the bike that put the biggest smile on my face was a hardrock or carrera from halfords, I'd ride that and be over the moon. A Jones is a bike that makes me smile like an idiot every time I ride it. The looks or other preconceptions about nich ego chariots don't come into. I would never ride shite just to prove a point? Why sully my enjoyment?

For younger, more democratic luxury consumers, “exclusivity” has negative connotations of snobbery and manufactured scarcity. Exclusivity for its own sake is not what the growing market of young luxury consumers value. What they prefer, according to Danziger, is “an exclusiveness derived from the ability to express a personal point of view, an attitude and one’s uniqueness.”
The luxury brands that have been most successful in their use of social and mobile media marketing have recognised the importance of the “new exclusivity” and have build their digital presence around their customers’ strong emotional connections to – and identification with – that brand.

In Leith, a mans head just exploded clean off his shoulders.

I think I'm getting it...

As mentioned, I ride a Five (slack, dropper, wide bars - basically everything someone who works in IT could ever need) and a Curtis S1.

In all situations I'd bet the Five was quicker. Its a great bike to ride and for most of my riding its absolutely perfect. A great mix of being able to cope with long days in the saddle and 60 minute hacks from my doorstep through the woods chucking myself down as many silly things as possible.

But sometimes I want something different. Generally when I'm on my own and I just want to ride. So out comes the Curtis and despite being the polar opposite to the Five, its an absolute blast to ride.

Would I swap them both for a fully rigid 29er? I very much doubt it - for my riding I think I've got all my bases covered. A bike that rides all day and descends brilliantly and a bike that is built just for being a bike - no frills but built with love and that love shows in the ride quality.

Maybe thats it, the ride quality instead of faster/gnarly/comfort etc? Am I getting there? Do I win a prize?

grum, if I wanted to express myself widely I'd have a blog or use FB.. I'm not part of the 'millenials' social media generation. I'd not spend all my valued riding time on a bike that was chosen for image, that would be stupid huh. Fair enough if you're riding a fixie in shoreditch.
I think I've said all that's worthwhile on why I like what I ride, it's simply positives about a relatively unique bike that some are interested in. I hope it's clear that I couldn't care much less about what you or anyone else rides as long as they're happy on it.

Am I getting there?

Do I win a prize?

if ya like them and can afford it or want to spend that much buy one..

but the being different thing is odd, given other people have them aswell , so what happens is your not different at all, and in fact just the same as the other different people who turn out to be not that different.

If i ride a trek and you ride a jones is it not me who's different..mmmm wait no because there are other treks ..seems we are all the same but different and it is in fact just a bike and if you try to be different your missing the point of being err different...

reet back to me coffee..just normal nescafe like not some bolivian niche coffee blended from goats hair and wd40..

grum - Member
Sam my Saturday lad rode the jones in a wiggle offroad sportive. At the start line there were these guys on bland normal bikes mocking the kid. Tossers with no class, who had no idea what they were looking at. It also turned out they could not ride for shit.

So again, almost certainly friendly banter from the people on 'bland' bikes (no snobbery implied there eh) is taken far too seriously. They have no class because they don't know about a niche bike brand? Hmmm....

They had no class because they were adults taking the piss out of a 15 year old on a start line. Nowt wrong with driving a Astra or riding a cube, but pulling up in a Astra and mocking someone who has a Westfield makes the Astra owner look like a cock.

It's just rude, and shows no class.

Kids get nervous on start lines, lining up with grown ups on bikes they could never afford... and taking the piss is poor form.

Rather than... "What's that your grans shopping bike?" I would suggest a " that's a curious bike... What's the story with the tubes, what's the design concept going on here?"

Engaging with kids on start lines can be of benefit to the kids: a few encouraging words, make them feel welcome. Or it can be a narrow minded piss taking to make yourself feel better in front of your mates, a sort of verbal masturbation, its entirely for your own benefit, no one else will enjoy it.

You can be generous, or you can be a cock.

That sportive was a bit of an eye opener for me, as are most normal events. I dwell in a world where curiosities are the norm. I am reminded that many cyclists do buy bikes from halfords, have never heard of a 29er, a fat bike, a jones etc.

Grim is on to something above... Brand perceptions. I had a 15 year old tell me he would not ride a salsa preferring a "more well know make of bike".

People really do care about brands, but with Jones it's all about the ride, almost no one buys a Jones to show off... It's a crap way of showing off or being different... no one knows what it is. Get a well known brand if you want to show off... Cannondale or cube, or boardman, or carrera, or mongoose etc.

Nowt wrong with driving a Astra

Well, you say that but... 😉

Branding is part of how something is, it can't be taken out once put in**. That's as true of JJ as it is of the other brands Charlie lists. (Hey Charlie knows about brands - he is one! And didn't I read on your site once you did a marketing degree?).

But so what if someone chooses, or rejects, something by the brand? Why are other people getting so steamed up about it?

** this penny dropped when I saw a doc once where a pretty young woman had married an old rich bloke, it may have been Hugh Hefner. Someone asked the guy "but really you married her for her looks didn't you?" and he said "partly yes of course, it's part of how she is, what am I supposed to do, ignore it?"

Do I need to add a RELIGION to my passport now I've bought a Jones?
Am I only semi religious as I own a Trek and a Cannondale as well?
Can someone tell me what to do as I'm just trying to be like everyone else on here.

Tim (with beard, without skill, happy)

I'd really REALLY like a go on one. I don't really care about what it looks like, or whether I then get an invite into a really niche club. I like the idea of a well designed well built bike that could possibly ride better at certain things than what I've currently ridden.

The cycling world is small enough and hated by enough without having to break into smaller factions that go to war with each other.

I'd love a go on a fat bike, a Jones, one of those adventure type bikes and a cargo bike. I've already got a trials bike, a BMX, a fs 29'er, numerous road bikes (including a narrow barred fixed) and so on. Who gives a flyer if people see the need to stereo type or slate someone for their choice of bike? I mean really? A cock is a cock regardless of whether he's riding a Jones, a Trek or a Boardman. At the end of the day its all bikes and bikes are cool, regardless of how they look.

A bike that causes so much comment/ outrage, for just riding a 'different' bike - I want one!

It's not that it's different, it's that people seem to think that it's important that it's different.

I struggle with long sentences, but to answer the OP - it depends on why you have lots of different bikes, doesn't it?

Grim is on to something above... Brand perceptions. I had a 15 year old tell me he would not ride a salsa preferring a "more well know make of bike".

This isn't a new phenomena. 20+ years ago some kids were commenting on the relative values of our bikes whilst we were stopped at a cafe. He had a custom logo free Roberts in British racing green, I had a Cannondale series 3.0
The kids decided mine most be the most expensive as it had stickers on it 🙂

I think I could only by a Jones as an ironic purchase though. Much like buying a nice bit of quiche to go with my copy of the Guardian. Nothing inherently wrong with Quiche, but it ain't going to bring world peace, and plenty of other nice foodstuffs are also available.

Grim is on to something above... Brand perceptions. I had a 15 year old tell me he would not ride a salsa preferring a "more well know make of bike".

What jeff needs is to get a blog like the surly chaps...that would send some stw regular haterz into such a shock induced coma, that the rest of us could just...you know...talk about bikes on a bike forum without it turning into some sort of boring ****athon about who likes what. It's bikes...bikes are good and riding and bikes should make YOU happy. Why waste energy and time being negative about stuff you have no interest in? It just too mary whitwhouse, " I watched a programme I knew I wouldn't like and complained about it" the
Singletrack is dry spring is comming.....lets all just have fun? Xx

I don't think Jeff Jones is a great marketeer

He's a great marketeer, though it could be by accident and without trying.

Jameso... I could not agree more.

Mattjg.. Yeah, marketing degree and around 15 years in brand management, advertising, and marketing.

Steve Worland once wrote "His steel and titanium SpaceFrames will never appeal to the masses, but one of the combinations tested here should be tried by every enthusiastic mountain biker. Despite, or because of, its lack of air/coil sprung suspension, it makes you realise why skin-of-the-teeth trail riding is so much fun. And the remarkable thing is that we were thrashing through all of our favourite trails at almost exactly the same speed as we do on 5in-travel full-sussers."

Yeah you're right, I know what you mean. I suppose I mean 'marketeer' as in trying to market stuff, rather than brand-building by credibility or reputation alone.

By some strange fate, I was out on the trail this morning and came across a fella on a Jones (Ti to boot)... we got chatting and he suggested I have a little pootle to see how it felt~ I must say, despite all my previous jest (see, I'm a nice man really and have no intention of hate) I was pleasantly surprised and could see there is some unique qualities to the ride which set it apart from anything I've ever ridden.

Whilst I had a pop on his bike, I returned the favor and he had a trundle on mine (NS surge with an Alfine for that non-Amish Niche feel).

Our final conclusions (from an admittedly short trial):

Despite the pleasant and unique feel of the Jones, I couldn't see that it offered any major benefit over my own steed, though that may have been due to cockpit setup and my limited experience of 29ers.

On the other hand, Mr Jones as we shall call him sang the praises of my bike and said he hadn't had so much fun in ages. He even mentioned he would consider selling his Jones to buy a similar bike to mine, as this would leave him with sufficient funds to try a full suss as well!!

I like that Worland quote 'skin of teeth trail riding', well put.

I think we have now established trying to out-post CTBM on marketing theory isn't going to work!

I couldn't see that it offered any major benefit over my own steed

Lack of maintenance cost and faffage? Slow depreciation? (genuine question).

People really do care about brands, but with Jones it's all about the ride, almost no one buys a Jones to show off... It's a crap way of showing off or being different... no one knows what it is

Blimey some people seem to think they can make some pretty wild assumptions about what goes through someones mind when they buy a bike.

How about thinking they tried a bike,liked it and handed over some cash for it?

It's a wild theory I know but there might just be some truth in it.

I'm off to clean my chain ready for tonights ride. It'll be more interesting than some of the stuff posted by the usual suspects here.

but just don't try and make a case that it performs better than a decent XC FS bike

told.

Decent fs xc bikes? Been there done that....jones is just more fun and equally quick with a skilled rider, but if you need a skill compensator then please be my guest, just don't tell me that 20 odd years of riding and racing make my personal experience any less valid than your unjustified opionion. 😉

If fat bikes or Jones' became common a lot of the current riders move onto something [s]else to stand out from the crowd[/s] new because they like trying new things.

It's not really that complicated.
I've had a jones for around 5 years.
Same amount of time i've had a nomad.
Any bike i like stays.
Any bike that i don't goes.

Nothing to do with anything else.
You're trying to read far to much into things.

I ride my bikes because i like the way they feel.
The last thing I think about when handing some cash over is what will someone i don't know think of it.

BTW
My chain's nice a clean ready for a ride out tonight. 🙂

wow and i thought fat bikes could cause a storm in a tea cup personally i quite like the look of them and living in the south east a 29er makes sense and as my area is mainly clay with big sections of sandy soil the fat front option also makes sense never ridden one let alone seen one in the flesh but would like a go if the chance came up after all bikes are bikes arn't they 🙂

The Simpler you make things, the richer the experiance becomes.

Just put my Big Fat Larry on mine, I just wasn't getting enough attention running the Knard up front 😉

It's the same with people riding fat bikes on normal trails, sure they might be having fun but just don't try and make a case that it performs better than a decent XC FS bike

Seeing someone on a half fat bike on the trails must drive you nuts then, what's wrong with having fun, and why does it have to be better than a fully skill compensator ???

This thread needs some more GNARR

[img] [/img]

He's clearly having a terrible time on his rigid bike.

Decent fs xc bikes? Been there done that

It's funny isn't it how riding a simple rigid (SS even) bike is regarded as odd, when really it's just a set of tubes joined together.

Yet putting front bouncy forks with half a dozen tuning adjustments and controls on the bars, rear shocks, various pivots, bearings and swinging bits, up to 30 gears and dealing with shifters for both ends, long chains (that break), chainsuck, dangly bits that get broken in the undergrowth, bendy gear hangers so that doesn't mash your frame, is all regarded as 'normal'.

The Jones truss fork has, presumably, 0 moving parts.

The Rebas I bought have (guesses) 50 or more parts? The tuning was positive air, negative air, rebound, and damping. 4 variables, in infinite combinations, to get it 'right'. It did my head in if I'm honest.

Does not compute, does it?

(suspect I am talking myself into buying a Jones, or the poor man's alternative, a Krampus).

I don't think Jeff does any marketing as such - I did see a tiny advert in a magazine 5 years ago. Other than a blog, I think jeff's only marketing is to a have a big beard!! Judging by the adverse beardy comments, that's not working too well 😉

Oh and stop banging on about how expensive they are - £815 will get you a steel frame and fork, it has exactly the same geometry as a Ti Spaceframe.

I don't think a Krampus will be that much cheaper than a steel Diamond, also they're much harder to get hold of.

Oh and stop banging on about how expensive they are - £815 will get you a steel frame and fork, that has exactly the same geometry as a Ti Spaceframe.

Less than a (forkless) Niner Sir 9 or a (forkless) Ritchey P29er - both of which I have nearly bought in the past.

[i]I don't think Jeff does any marketing as such[/i]

the best marketing is always invisible 😉

just don't try and make a case that it performs better than a decent XC FS bike.

We'd need to define 'performs better' before anyone can consider that point.

Personally I'd define performance as the interaction between rider and bike, ergonomics; the enjoyment of riding it which is highly subjective; and the bike's ability to do what the rider wants it to, again pretty subjective.
I reckon it's a waste of time unless it's in a std mag test way which is still no more than a guide based on an informed opinion. Which is more than some of contributors to this thread have 🙂

It's not the look people are buying, you would have to be stupid to spend that sort of money on a look... And many jones owners have the regular diamond frame with the uncrowned fork... Looks like a normal bike.

If you wanna stand out, save some money, simply tattoo your face and cut the arse out of your trousers.

People generally don't move on to another bike to stand out from the crowd. They adopt new designs, new concepts and new tweaks on old concepts. Have an open mind any enjoy experiencing alternative designs.

What blows me away is the assertion the people buy these to stand out, be different or show off. The Jones owners I know also don't look down on people with normal bikes. We all had a rockhopper (or similar) once.

For something different to be adopted:
It's got to be available
Affordable
And have a perceived advantage over there current set up.

So why do Jones stir things up... Some people can't afford a jones, and don't get the design concept so don't get the perceived advantage, or in their world it has no advantage (DH racing for example) A jones also challenges excepted bike design theory with no springs and levers, what was an odd wheel size, crazy bars etc.. so challenges someone's previous buying decisions, and in extreme cases it can be perceived as almost inferring that you and your current bike is wrong.

The relaxed and considered reality is that people buy them because they have researched it, probably tested it, evaluated it against their own unique set of needs (based on ride style, terrain, bank account etc) and gone for it...

People ride these bikes because they work very well, if its design matches your criteria.

the poor man's alternative, a Krampus

it's cool James, I've ridden neither a Krampus or a Jones, I was just being a bit flippant really. (And that's useful POV actually).

re looks I saw a truss-forked Jones on someone's roof in town the other day, I thought it didn't look as odd in the flesh as it does on the screen.

I still don't get it.

What I do get is people out there like the back-to-basics (Amish - I'm not letting that one go!) feel of riding a track on a bike with no suspension. I started riding when all bikes had no suspension and I enjoyed it as much then as I do today on the variety of bikes I own.

But why not just hark back to the days of old and get a rigid framed, normal wheeled, bike? An Inbred with a rigid fork maybe?

Why has old fashioned needed to be re-invented for the modern day? And if you want to get more in touch with the trail why are you using disk brakes - surely that must be seen as some kind of performance advantage that takes away from the purity of riding?

I'm not being grumpy here (well I'm not trying to be) - I just honestly do not get it. My old Marin Bolinas ridge was £230 complete and meets all the simple purist needs that are being talked about.

Would I want to try one - hell yes. I've ridden some very odd bikes over the years.

Would I want to own one - hell no. They are ugly (subjective, I appreciate) and I can't see why they represent any sort of giggle value at the price they are. If they were a couple of hundred quid I'd probably buy one for giggle rides a couple of times a year.

Yadda yadda yadda,I'm still sticking with my wheelbarrow comment,looks better too...................

challenges someone's previous buying decisions, and in extreme cases it can be perceived as almost inferring that you and your current bike is wrong.

drs****... It's nothing like your old rigid bike. The angles are unique, giving it unique handling. This is a summary from dirt rag.

"With short chainstays and a shorter trail number, thanks to a slacker headtube angle and more fork offset, his bikes are markedly more playful than your average 29er hardtail—just look at that tight wheelbase on this test bike. Think of it as a large-wheeled BMX bike that’s comfortable for long, long days in the saddle."
Justin Steiner,
Dirt Rag Magazine

Would I want to try one - hell yes

Would I want to own one - hell no.

This was my line of thinking until i tried one.

If someone liked the way a full susser rides but it's ugly and expensive would people be so upset about it?
No i don't think they would.

So why the problem with someone that likes rigid bikes buying something they like.

Seems kind of strange to me.

As for being the same as any old rigid bike, it's not the same at all.
the first thing that struck me was how can it be so stable but still remain quick steering.
I'm told it's all to do with the head angle and larger offset of the fork.

i'm sure James could explain in a lot more detail seen as i believe that's the kind of field he works in.

"As I roll down the chute in the trail of death
I look at my rigid bike and see tubes like a mess
but that's just perfect for an Amish like me
you know I shun fancy things like gears and electricity...

..been spending most my life
riding in an Amish paradise.."

DrRS**** you reminded me of the Al Yankovich classic..

The Marin point.. starting from scratch and fine tuning a rigid bike's ergonomics to the nth degree is what Jeff's done, if bikes hadn't developed suspension that's probably where they'd have ended up. I've wondered if suspension came about originally to make up for small wheels with sub-2" tyres on 17mm rims and a crap riding position with way too much weight on the front.. Sus is a natural progression of course, just one of those thoughts.

jameso - Member
challenges someone's previous buying decisions, and in extreme cases it can be perceived as almost inferring that you and your current bike is wrong.

Spot on - I know I wondered if I did the right thing buying my Jones ti when 2 friends got Ibis Mojo HDs with some very nice kit for not a lot more shortly after. No regrets though. And they still let me ride with them )

Actually this is a very important components of business that is often over looked. Some companies will tell you how great a bike is, and six months later tell you that everything has improved and you need a new bike..." What, eh, but you just told me this is the best bike!!"

What a smart business will do is reinforce the original buying decision, help keep the customer in love with his bike. This is how you build grass roots word of mouth sincere recommendations.

Alternatively you can tweak everything every year, keep the shareholders happy by selling more and more bikes, upset existing customers by making them less than happy with their bike - wanting more... and fuel all of this with the most expensive and ineffective form of communication know to man (advertising).

Some bike brands are a full on business... Some are a beardy bloke in a log cabin who rides really effin well.

CTBM - true.. Ideally you do what classics like the early Konas, the 5 and the Soul do, subtly evolve when it's justifiable without undermining the previous design. You can only do that if you get it pretty much right first time.

SSS, I could but not with the clarity that Jeff explains it and I still think the overall layout is inspired. There's an image on his site that's very telling of how he approached the design. Took him a number of custom builds and test bikes to arrive at that design but it was all based on a theory that to me makes me wonder (like all good ideas) why no-one else came up with it earlier - the proliferation of suspension and 'the way things are' I guess.

I've just come back from a ride,in a new place,with a good mate,on my new (to me) JJ space frame SS with fat front,that I've wanted for 6 or 7 years,I had to borrow the money to buy it.
I'm happy as a pig in poo.
don't give a toss what any one else thinks about me or my bike,all I know is that today was what it's all about,for me. 🙂

sod you lot yacking on, I'm off out riding on my ultra-niche Selma (only 50 ever imported I'm told), several miles of hard fast trails with my ride buddies then a few pints by a glowing fire I hope.

Thumbs up for keef and mattjg ..

I'm jonesing for one of these

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