[Closed] Jonathan Tiernan-Locke - 2 year ban

Sad to see. Curious that the ban announced with no detail.

Source?

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tiernan-locke-banned-for-two-years

[quote=mrblobby ]Sad to see. Curious that the ban announced with no detail.

I think he was instructed to explain away the anomalies so they probably think that him failing to explain is obvious enough

announcement on team sky website now [url= http://www.teamsky.com/article/0,27290,17546_9385337,00.html ]http://www.teamsky.com/article/0,27290,17546_9385337,00.html[/url]

🙁

I think he was instructed to explain away the anomalies so they probably think that him failing to explain is obvious enough

Was there ever an explanation as to what the anomalies were and what the suspected cause is?

Oof, shame. Weird there's not been more about exactly what it was he's supposed to have done/taken.

Nope. Hard to explain away haematalogical anomalies (if indeed that's what it is) after a gap of well over a year, though.

All you can say is 'I didn't do anything outside the rules', and that's never going to work if the scientists are insistent you couldn't have achieved those values without blood doping, or whatever.

Can't imagine any system looking for nuanced changes in natural metabolism will be without false positives (without suggesting that JTL is one of these), and there is no viable defence you can put forward in those circumstances.

Oof, shame. Weird there's not been more about exactly what it was he's supposed to have done/taken.

Is this not part of the new UCI approach to announcing these things - see also the Menchov controversy?

there is no viable defence you can put forward in those circumstances.

You could always blame it on the steak you had for dinner, I suppose.

You could always blame it on the steak you had for dinner, I suppose.

Don't think that worked too well as an excuse for Bertie, did it?

From what I read he basically said that the training and type of racing he was doing when at Endura worked perfectly for him. Then the change in training program, type of racing and the role he played in races at Sky didn't work for him which lead to exhaustion and persistent illness. The exhaustion and persistent illness was the reason he gave for the change in the values they found.

From what I read he basically said that the training and type of racing he was doing when at Endura worked perfectly for him. Then the change in training program, type of racing and the role he played in races at Sky didn't work for him which lead to exhaustion and persistent illness. The exhaustion and persistent illness was the reason he gave for the change in the values they found.

Or alternatively, he was doping on Endura, and when he moved to Sky (with presumably a more rigorous sports medicine regime) he had to stop?

When he was at Endura he didn't have to do the bio passport thing either, only pro tour teams do it.
He only did it when he won TOB from what I can remember so if he didn't win that race he would have probably got away with it

Or alternatively, he was doping on Endura, and when he moved to Sky (with presumably a more rigorous sports medicine regime) he had to stop?

And therein lies the problem. Do the scientists know enough about individual physiology and have a long enough period baseline period to dismiss the non-doping explanation? The verdict suggests they are adamant they do.

I just don't know what defence you could possibly put up against a biological passport anomaly. It will be interesting to see whether, as the data comes in over the years, there will be individuals whose values are legitimate, but trigger the alarms anyhow.

Quite a good article over at [url= http://inrng.com/2014/06/roman-kreuziger-uci-passport/ ]inrng[/url] a while ago about how the biological passport process works.

And what happened to the Haeno case? Was his BP ever flagged as anomalous or was that Sky just being ultra cautious?

Sergio Henao? Sky did a load of tests and said all was OK, and the anomalies were due to living at altitude (or being Colombian or something)

Then he broke his knee in a crash whilst pre-riding the TT at the Tour de Suisse.

/Tinfoilhat

Or alternatively, he was doping on Endura, and when he moved to Sky (with presumably a more [s]rigorous[/s] expensive sports medicine regime) he [s]had to stop?[/s] used the new stuff which doesn't get detected?

Or alternatively, he was doping on Endura, and when he moved to Sky (with presumably a more [s]rigorous[/s] expensive sports medicine regime) [s]he had to stop?[/s] used the new stuff which doesn't get detected?

Isn't that rather the point of the biological passport, that it picks up the physiological changes consisted with doping without there needing to be a positive test?

Also, wasn't Endura not of a high enough level for the riders to be subject to the passport?

Or alternatively, he was doping on Endura, and when he moved to Sky (with presumably a more [s]rigorous[/s] expensive sports medicine regime) [s]he had to stop?[/s] used the new stuff which doesn't get detected?

That doesn't make a great deal of sense given he rode really well with Endura, then really badly once he joined Sky, if Sky have a big pillbox marked 'marginal gains' I would expect he would be as least as good as when he was with Endura, as it was he was a total bust for Sky even before the charges.

Isn't that rather the point of the biological passport, that it picks up the physiological changes consisted with doping without there needing to be a positive test?

It is. And one assumes they have set their limits in such a way that they can be fairly confident in their assessments. But its not exactly simple science, and all the data they are collecting from tests on athletes in the system is, arguably, biased towards that population.

No idea how much "neutral" baseline data they also have access to, but I wouldn't be surprised to find that some people who have done nothing wrong appear to be doping by the current understanding of the data. And if you were asked what you had been doing 12 months ago that might have caused odd blood values, what would you say?

So, great to collect the data, but lets not pretend it is the end of all doping, or impossible to reasonably challenge the results. Hopefully the safeguards with multiple experts etc mean that the chances of false positives are slim

Also, wasn't Endura not of a high enough level for the riders to be subject to the passport?

No.

It was only a tinfoil hat speaking, but let's suppose someone has a big medicine cabinet full of Marginal Gains, would anyone care to speculate what might be in it these days. Assuming Old School was amphetamines and steroids, 90s Acid House doping was Testosterone, HGH and EPO, what would be current? There was chatter about GW1516 and AICAR, and every athlete seems to have a skinny six pack these days. If I wanted to juice up, where would I start?

Midlife: start on The Clinic in the cyclingnews forums, there's speculation on just about everything (and everyone) in there....

I was wondering about this recently. They must be fairly convinced as they've given him 2 years. Be nice to know the details though.

Isn't two years the standard penalty for a violation? I didn't think there was a sliding scale based on a degree of certainty or any leeway to give a lesser penalty?

Shame, I dont believe it to be true as I have met him (rode with him once or twice years ago when he was a mountain biker) and I know his brother, Alex, a little better. They are a decent family and I can definitely say hes a hard worker and all round nice guy. Saying that, Armstrong was a 'nice' guy...

Armstrong was a 'nice' guy...

Possibly, if you are referring to the bloke who walked on the moon. If the cyclist then he most certainly was not!

From what I've read, dopers are not work shy! Infact, it's the drugs that allow them to go out day after day and batter themselves when non-dopers are physically crushed by a similar workload.

I never really warmed to the guy when he won Tour of Britain in 2012, there just seemed something about him but I'd like to think he innocent.

Sky posted a pic the other day and his name was still on the side of the Deathstar so they had better get the hair dryer out.

Being a bit nieve to all these UCI regs, is this basically the end of JTL's professional career ?

Curious that the ban announced with no detail.

Yes, also Menchov too.

Interesting there are only 4 bans on the UCI currently banned list for "Biological Passport Finding" (Barredo, Leif, Menchov, Tiernan-Locke). I don't think it is ever likely we'll ever hear what was going on with JTL and there will remain a vague "Biological Passport Finding" against his name with no further information due to the complexities of interpreting the data...

Is this not part of the new UCI approach to announcing these things - see also the Menchov controversy?

I think Menchov falls in to the complexities of the biological passport so there won't ever be a definitive reason for a ban.

The UCI are not obliged to publish the name of any riders serving bans IIRC, it is up to the governing body in the nation where the rider is registered (of course most will name and shame for transparency although there are cases of 2 year knee injuries etc which raise suspicion)...

They must be fairly convinced as they've given him 2 years

All 4 bans for "Biological Passport Finding" (Barredo, Leif, Menchov, Tiernan-Locke) are for 2 years- looks like some standard time period for a "Biological Passport Finding"

Being a bit nieve to all these UCI regs, is this basically the end of JTL's professional career ?

Certainly he'll never ride for British Cycling nor Sky again. If he rides again it will be for a lower tier team as I'm not sure how much weight his old successes will carry now. As mentioned, he's ebayed all his Sky and BC kit already.

He'd fit right in at Astana or Tinkoff-Saxo.

We won't hear much from him again - so different to where the Yates brothers are going.

I haven't seen anything about Ebaying his kit - linky? Had a quick look and see Edmondson is selling his.

I used to work with someone who was British Olympic athlete, and who's husband is now coach to a high profile Olympian.
When slalom skier Alan Smith was 'caught' and pleaded change of training, illness combined with a nasal spray, my friend was somewhat clear.
Her view was something like 'you are either very stupid, or you are hiding something - and you don't become an elite athlete by being stupid...'

Given pharmacies here even know what stuff is banned by WADA, I'm often surprised how often athletes plead ignorance.

Real shame, almost certainly the end of his career, he was a late starter as it was.

I won a competition and rode with him when he was on rapha-condor. Came across as a really solid guy and wanted him to do well. when I met him he came across as a very old skool rider in terms of training and tech approach so I couldn't really see him getting into the 'science of marginal gains', just ride fast until it got dark and do the same the next day kind of thing.

Funny how you see these things when you are colored by just a short meeting with him isn't it 🙁

Looks like Tiernan Locke Ebayed his kit earlier in the year.

Not sure all elite athletes aren't stupid - I've seen football.

I think that the Vicks Nasal Spray that Alan Baxter took was from an American pharmacy that had a different ingredient to the British version.

from Wiki
A few days after his return home, Alain discovered that he had failed a drug test. His sample contained a trace amount of levomethamphetamine, an levorotary isomer of the banned stimulant methamphetamine. Although levMethamphetamine had no significant stimulant properties, he was sanctioned by the IOC. Following an unsuccessful appeal, Baxter was disqualified and told to return his medal. The Alpine bronze was then awarded to Austrian Benjamin Raich. [b]Baxter later proved the source of levMethamphetamine was from a Vicks inhaler that he had used in the United States. He had been unaware that the contents were different from those found in the UK version.[/b] The International Ski Federation accepted his explanation and banned him for the minimum of 3 months.
****

The curious thing about the JTL case is that he seemed legit before. Apparently even Garmin did a full work-up on him and would have signed him had he not gone to Sky.

But on the face of it "rider is crap for years, then when already fairly old suddely starts winning while on a Continental level team so not subject to bio-passport tests, signs to team with better governance and is crap" screams doping.

In some ways this should give us confidence in the system. Firstly that he has been caught is good since it shows the system does catch people. But also it gives us confidence that the peleton is cleaner. If a previously crap rider can get such a huge gain from doping and then win a relatively high level race then hopefully this highlights that everyone else isn't doping.

Previoulsy you had to dope to keep up, cyclisme deux vitesse, now you can dope to win but you are more likely to get caught.

gary - Member

And if you were asked what you had been doing 12 months ago that might have caused odd blood values, what would you say?

mudshark - Member

Not sure all elite athletes aren't stupid - I've seen football.

Years ago I remember reading something along the lines of 'racing cyclists don't need anything more than good legs so don't expect them to be clever'. I guess intelligence is spread through the peloton in the same way as the general population?

Looks like Tiernan Locke Ebayed his kit earlier in the year.

You can get EPO on the cheap off ebay now? Cool! 🙂

He'd fit right in at Astana or Tinkoff-Saxo.

I'm not so sure - it appears he's not good enough without doping, and he's not very good at doping, so that sort of leaves him back in the 3rd tier continental teams if any of those will now touch him. 😕