[Closed] It’s just a ‘90s mountain bike

I remember having to virtually sit on the back wheel on steep descents on my first MTBs!

We also used to chop the bars down to get them as narrow as possible.

After all my bikes got nicked (just over 18 months ago)one of the replacements was a 1997 Kona Fire Mountain.

That Kona has so many things stacked against, even with retro rose tinted frog skins on!

But I’ve had some fun rides on it. It is not a main bike or even a go to bike now but when I do ride it, it makes me smile.

Bikes are awesome 😎

It goes without saying that it feels nothing like my gravel bike (on or off road) but fun none the less

It didn't go without saying. Other than the bars how does it feel different especially off tarmac?

Other than the bars how does it feel different especially off tarmac?

The gravel bike is lighter, stiffer and with the drops puts me in a more aggressive position. Compared with the RockHopper it flies along the road, is much faster up (smoothish) climbs and then shakes you to bits down the other side. The old steel rigid MTB is slower overall but more fun coming down. Oh and the gravel bike stops when you hit the brakes, which is nice 🙂

If I were not too bothered about speed and wanted to ride tamer trails all day with the odd bit of road I’d still fancy that old MTB. What the gravel bike does is cover ground much more quickly. It’s by far the better option for, say, a 70 mile ride that is 80% on roads.

It’s all just bikes though and of course there is a spectrum. I’m comparing an old steel MTB with a modern carbon fibre gravel bike, so it’s no surprise that they feel very different. A “gravel bike” based around a steel MTB frame is going to feel a bit more similar I’m sure, although don’t underestimate the effect that one finger braking (and being able to stop in general) has on the feel of a bike. That’s probably the one thing I’d say was unequivocally better about a modern bike as opposed to just being different.

They are nice to ride on tamer trails compared to a modern trail bike, but you can also get modern bikes like that - rigid, steep angles, efficient position - and they are better still.

A “gravel bike” based around a steel MTB frame

That's basically what I have - a rigid 29er. But it has the benefit of big wheels, decent tyres, 1x and so on.

Further to my previous post, I should add my main / go to bike is:

Steel and designed as an all road / gravel bike.
Hydro discs, 1x11 and 650b (47 tyres) and it does all that it was designed to do ( and occasionally a bit more) really well.

Yes, I wasn't trying to have a go at modern bikes. I have a couple and love them. I was just surprised at how much fun the old one still was. A modern version (with brakes that actually stop you) would still be a fun bike to ride as a number of posters have confirmed. Worse in some situations than a modern LLS full suss, but better in others and still a perfectly viable option.

I promised to upgrade a few bits for my wife anyway, but I can see myself nicking it off her for the odd ride once it's done 🙂

I single-speeded my old 26" MTB when I eventually got it back from loan. Geometry is old-school but it does have disk brakes. It's still fun on the right trails and we have lots of suitable stuff from the door here. SS does limit how far/high I get and therefore what sort of terrain I might end up on 😉

I remember having to virtually sit on the back wheel on steep descents on my first MTBs!

We also used to chop the bars down to get them as narrow as possible

6ft3 on a 26 inch bike that's too small for you.  Imo Bikes have come a long way if you are tall. I can't remember the last time I went over the bars. Used to happen all the time on smaller wheeled bikes.

I can’t remember the last time I went over the bars

Last Sunday for me. Steering around a massive pile of horse shit and just rolled off the into a ditch full of brambles and front wheel just stuck right into them and over I went.

Last week for me as well but that was on a Santa Cruz so not really surprising.

What the gravel bike does is cover ground much more quickly. It’s by far the better option for, say, a 70 mile ride that is 80% on roads.

Sounds like my personal hell...

If I were not too bothered about speed and wanted to ride tamer trails all day with the odd bit of road I’d still fancy that old MTB.

Sounds more like my idea of exercise. Typically in non Covid times I'll ride 20-25 miles on bridleways and towpaths where speed is limited anyway due to shared use with perhaps 5% max tarmac. When I pass a cafe I'll probably stop have a coffee and cig. Then when I get wherever I'm going I'll have a coffee and cig before riding the actual ride 15-20 miles or whatever daylight permitting (the actual purpose of the ride) and have a coffee and cig then ride home stopping at any open cafe's on the way.

I usually ride my steel LLS HT as I worry about snapping my carbon XC frame or the wheels taco'ing on a bad landing but I'd thought a gravel with flat bars might be doable though I'm not sure I'd go any faster on the shared use bridleways and towpaths but maybe I would with flat bars.

I had a go on a "race" road bike yesterday... felt horrible but my brother wouldn't let me ride his new e-gravel thing... it looked much comfier. My back is killing me and even as unfit as I am I didn't feel like my legs and cardio got a workout as my back gave in first..getting out of the saddle felt very very twitchy. drop brakes felt plain scary... though perhaps not adjusted for me but I found it really hard to modulate off the hoods and I had to squeeze them in a bit to get my fingers around them on the drops.

That’s basically what I have – a rigid 29er. But it has the benefit of big wheels, decent tyres, 1x and so on.

I'm thinking maybe I should just stop worrying about snapping the carbon XC HT frame and replace it with a steel frame when it snaps.

I can’t remember the last time I went over the bars

It's weird how different people have different risk tolerances. I go OTB pretty often when wearing flats .. it's only really scary on clips... much over 200m on road makes me very uncomfortable.. I think we did 50-60 miles yesterday and that's much scarier than a few gaps.

Personally I wouldn’t get a gravel bike if you don’t enjoy road miles at that seems to be the main advantage over an MTB or monstercross type bike to me. But I’m sure there will be someone along in a minute who only rides their gravel bike off road and loves it. Each to their own.

Compared to my 1990s mtb that is a fairly relaxed position. With 1.5 inch hardpacks it was pretty fast. One Minute slower in 10 mile time trial than my terrible road bike. A very versatile bikes. I'm hopping that 650b on my gravel bike creates something similar

LOL. Most of my "gravel" rides are 90% or more off-road.

There you go 🙂

What the gravel bike does is cover ground much more quickly. It’s by far the better option for, say, a 70 mile ride that is 80% on roads.

Sounds like my personal hell…

snap

LOL. Most of my “gravel” rides are 90% or more off-road.

snap

roads are not the bread and butter of "gravel" riding. they're an occasional necessary evil between my house and the trails (about 10 minutes worth), or something one has to cross over when exiting one bit of forest to enter another, or very occasionally ride along for a few minutes.
80% road is from about 10 years ago when road riders might use a CX bike to allow them to take a cheeky shortcut.
"gravel" now is almost exclusively off-road imho, and since every metre of trail is a race and/or strava segment and "faster" is the most important parameter, my "gravel" bike is actually about 20% faster than my hardtail on XC tyres, offroad.

Did think about fixing up my 1996 Scott hardtail. Needs a rigid fork I think, cos the polymer and spring that looks like it came out of a click pen lets me get full sag just by sitting on the bike. Could be a lot of fun. At least the front wheel and bar ends will all be in the same post code as the saddle 🙂

If all you're riding is towpaths and bridleways it isn't going to matter if you've gotten an LLS bike or whatever. And there's zero chance of you breaking a carbon frame with some 'radness' in that situation, dodging a labrador or whatever. Just ride the carbon bike and enjoy it - I've got modern carbon and some 90's steel, and the carbon is more comfortable, a lot faster and stronger I suspect.

1.5 hardpacks were brutal

since every metre of trail is a race and/or strava segment and “faster” is the most important parameter

Since when? I think you are mis-labelling nearly everyone who rides a bike based on a fairly misanthropic understanding of the marketing.

“gravel” now is almost exclusively off-road imho

This depends entirely on where you live. I ride lots of road on my MTB because I want to get to the different trails that are 10 miles away. It takes too long to get there on road.

Love the bike OP.

Thanks @jamj1974

It’s interesting to hear different people’s definitions of gravel. I thought my 80:20 comment would horrify some people. To be honest that’s really based on what I was doing last year when I fitted 38mm gravelking tlc (slick) tyres and was basically using the gravel bike as an endurance road bike for longer rides from my door with a bit of tame trail mixed in for fun. This year I’ve fitted chunkier tyres and am picking routes that have more (and rougher) off road sections. The jury is still out on that for me though.

The comments about speed are interesting. I wouldn’t say that the gravel bike is about speed for me, or at least not Strava segments. In general it is slower on the road than my road bike and slower off road than my mountain bike. The only segments where it grabs PRs are those smooth off road climbs and to be honest I could take the road bike up most of those and be faster still if I cared about such things. Where the gravel bike wins is overall speed on routes that have a decent mix of road (or at least smooth trail) and rougher off road sections. There is clearly no right answer here though.

The only segments where it grabs PRs are those smooth off road climbs and to be honest I could take the road bike up most of those and be faster still if I cared about such things.

Yep, my fastest times on gravel climbs were on a 6.4kg track bike running 25c tyres. I am now however riding an SS MTB with a 47 inch gearing so any attempts at getting a good Strava time are well in the past. The bike is not that different to an 80's MTB but different enough to make the handling better, going downhill better and rolling better (29" wheels)

I’d love some great gravel trails nearby - more for getting in some traffic-free miles. Although, within 1.5 miles of home, I have access to the canal network of Brum, and especially going north they can be pleasant and lower in pedestrian traffic.

I’ve been thinking about an e-bike,
rigid fork and 700c conversion on my old Cotic Soda, for those canals. I have all the other parts I need - so it seems to make sense...

That is a lovely little Rockhopper. I had a Stumpjumper from around the same time (92 Pruple). Very versatile bikes, I seem to remember riding 12 miles to Cannock on road to ride off road all day at Cannock and ride the 12 miles home. Must've been 60/40 off road/road and it wasn't my idea of fun. Wish I hadn't sold my car...

I had a Mavic ceramic rim on my front wheel and it really did improve braking performance. In fact in the wet it gripped and slipped repeatedly causing the front fork to flex wildly.

Definitely fit some V brakes to it, some good pads and some modern rubber as it will make a huge difference.

I’ve been thinking about an e-bike,
rigid fork and 700c conversion on my old Cotic Soda, for those canals

Towpaths being mostly flat, I would have thought an ebike overkill? (ability assumed)

Thanks @tomaso I'll have to see if I can track down some 26" ceramic rims.

@ RP

Saw this and thought you might enjoy the read:

https://advntr.cc/are-gravel-bikes-just-80s-mountain-bikes/

Towpaths being mostly flat, I would have thought an ebike overkill? (ability assumed)

but they are also shared access so in some ways perhaps ideal to a bike limited to 15mph.

I guess it depends on the reason for using them... if its transport then its different to exercise (not that they are mutually exclusive)

Thanks @NM Very interesting. I’ll keep an eye out for part two with the tips on upgrading an old MTB. Although it looks as though his RockHopper doesn’t have a back brake at all (unless there is a drum brake or something)!

That part of the 80s would be U-brake (under the chainstay)

Although I kind of feel 90s MTB geometry is usually nearer than 80s stuff which was often slacker with a longer wheelbase IME.

If all you’re riding is towpaths and bridleways it isn’t going to matter if you’ve gotten an LLS bike or whatever. And there’s zero chance of you breaking a carbon frame with some ‘radness’ in that situation, dodging a labrador or whatever. Just ride the carbon bike and enjoy it – I’ve got modern carbon and some 90’s steel, and the carbon is more comfortable, a lot faster and stronger I suspect.

The only reason to ride the towpaths and bridleways is to get to somewhere to actually ride avoiding roads. When I meet my mates they drive there with 170mm travel FS Enduro rigs which might be a bit OTT for Surrey Hills but I still feel quite nervous sending gaps and drops on the XC bike. (Usually mid air when I have an image of it snapping on landing)

Oh yes, I’d forgotten about those U brakes. Probably made more sense in California than it did in UK mud 🙂

I did run a tape over that old Rockhopper. Despite being supposedly the right size for my wife the numbers are surprisingly similar to my gravel bike. I make the wheelbase the same to within 1cm for example, which was a bit of a surprise.

Towpaths being mostly flat, I would have thought an ebike overkill? (ability assumed

Unfortunately, disability is an issue for me now.

Funny that it's a Rockhopper and we're playing the "Compare 90s bikes to Gravel bikes" game...
Does anyone else watch the 'Spindatt' YT channel?

He's very enamoured with his Rockhopper Drop-bar, gravelish conversion:
Playlist linky (18 videos and counting all about one old bike from the last year or so)...

Interesting. I hadn’t seen those. I’m definitely sticking with flat bars (and bar ends) on mine, but have just ordered some Deore V brakes (and levers) and will probably upgrade a few other bits as well. Pity you can’t seem to but those Mavis x517 rims anymore.

Love how all of these labels have got so specific now - “no way could you ride Tier 4 gravel on 30c slicks”.

You’d be amazed at what you can ride on everything (including 100mm XC race bikes on DH tracks). The only thing separating everything is how fun is it - and that’s up to you.

There's being physically able to get a bike down or up a trail, and there's being able to ride it well. I don't find bouncing slowly down some rough trail fun, nor do I like cornering with my front wheel on the verge of dumping me on my face.

I grew up on bikes like that, I really don't want to go back! There are modern alternatives that have the benefits but not the downsides.

@cookeaa - yes, another Spindatt viewer here!

The ultimate, you say....?

Get you with your suspension and fancy aheadset:)

There’s being physically able to get a bike down or up a trail, and there’s being able to ride it well. I don’t find bouncing slowly down some rough trail fun, nor do I like cornering with my front wheel on the verge of dumping me on my face.

Agree. I spent the last 10 years riding a narrow tyred fixed gear bike on all sorts of inappropriate off road. Having much more fun since switching back to rigid SS MTB and wonder what I have been thinking all these years!

I’ve had a look at the Spindatt videos and I think I’d agree with his basic conclusions. Comparing this particular 90s MTB against a modern gravel bike (and assuming the brakes can be be fixed) there are two things that really stand out. It feels pretty sluggish. Where the gravel bike feels responsive and sporty this is (as he says) much more party pace. It also feels a lot more comfortable off road.

I guess I’m comparing a noodly old (pre-CEN) steel frame against a modern carbon one, so none of that is too surprising really. They are both good fun to ride (like all bikes really) but feel very different.

I think the main thing is reach, even the most basic 90s MTB had a huge amount more reach than a modern day gravel or CX bike. once you shove drops on it you need an incredibly stumpy stem to even pull it back in right ballpark. Better yet go a size down if you can...

All of which kinda makes it seem mode sensible to just fit a nice pair of risers to an old MTB...

But I still think gravel bikes manage to have a similar quality to those old MTBs I remember.
Obviously the geometry is different, the brakes work and the tyres are tubeless and harder to pinch flat, but I do remember a similar feeling from efficiently rattling my way through my local woods and trails on a rigid Kona with canti's, a relatively basic. An un-fussy bike that covered terrain and didn't need too much looking after, I can't say the same about most modern MTBs.
Perhaps that's why Gravel bikes came to be?

An un-fussy bike that covered terrain and didn’t need too much looking after, I can’t say the same about most modern MTBs.
Perhaps that’s why Gravel bikes came to be?

There are modern MTBs that fit that role but guessing people don't buy them as much (or marketing/media would suggest that anyway)

For example the rigid On-One Whippet would be an updated version of a 90's MTB and just as simple to look after as the 90's MTB. It will ride better than the 90's MTB due to wheels and brakes but it is not really a million miles away. I still ride a very basic MTB and love it but it still feels quite different to a gravel bike (slower on easy stuff, more capable on harder stuff)

There are modern MTBs that fit that role

My Genesis Longitude is just a bigger and better version of a 90’s rigid steel MTB IME. I’ve had an array of 90’s Konas, Dawes, Rockhoppers, Saracen, Raleigh/M-Trax and never going back. Curiously, the one I enjoyed most was a Raleigh Apex which I customised circa 2007 for gravel-type day-touring in hilly country. It was a workhorse. Brookes B17, some high sweep bars, and one of those riser stems ie

Handling was interesting. But I could ride it in comfort all day long with considerable cargo.

Nowadays geometry/fit is much improved, MTB-wise. I never really got into the arse-up, head-down cricked-neck scene so would at the very least fit high riser bars on any early MTB.

even the most basic 90s MTB had a huge amount more reach than a modern day gravel or CX bike

That would explain why this 90s MTB, which was supposed to fit my wife (who is 5" shorter than me) seems to have the same reach as my gravel bike. A bit of a surprise though as I though MTBs had got a lot longer recently. Did they get shorter after the 90s before getting longer again?

90s MTBs had long distance to the bars, because 130mm stems were normal, and you got a stretched-ish roadie style position - a lot of MTBers had previously been roadies so that's what they were used to; but the actual reach measured by modern standards wasn't that long I don't think. That coupled with the steep head angle meant that the front wheel was pretty close to you. They never used to discuss reach as a measurement in geo charts in those days.

These bikes do climb well because they are more or less based on road bikes, because early MTBing was based around either XC racing or simply covering ground, which has similar requirements to road biking.

My Genesis Longitude is just a bigger and better version of a 90’s rigid steel MTB IME.

Aren't you Cardiff based? That Genesis is probably the perfect Valleys bike. Fancy a classic Valleys ride after I'm done digging my garden?

There are modern MTBs that fit that role but guessing people don’t buy them as much (or marketing/media would suggest that anyway)

No, and there aren't as many out there to buy. Mostly marketed as 'bike-packing' bikes.

Mine is a Salsa El Mariachi, but there are others:

Shand Bahookie
Big Brother
Genesis Longitude
Surly Karate Monkey
Trek 1120
Salsa Cutthroat or Fargo (ok so those both have drop bars but they're still MTBs really)

Rigid 29ers not that different to flat-bar monstercross but usually MTB gearing and yet more tyre clearance.

I still use my 90's Diamond Back Ascent with XT and LX. I've fitted full guards and use it in the crappy weather on local trails

The only reason to ride the towpaths and bridleways is to get to somewhere to actually ride avoiding roads.

That might be right in the south-east but doesn't apply in huge chunks of the country. I could manage the bridleways of Dartmoor or the Quantocks, for example, on my gravel bike, but I have much more fun there on a MTB. And that's what I ride whenever I'm there, normally thinking that I should have taken a bigger travel bike because this bridleway is most unbridleway-like.

"These bikes do climb well because they are more or less based on road bikes"

Also because a decent one was a lot lighter than a modern bike! Mine wasn't far off my road bike in terms of weight. Would have been lighter too without the 130mm stem 😀

nice one @roverpig - I've recently retired my - later - Stumpjumper M2, and am left with a 1993 Kilaeua to connect me to the heady days of 26" rigid MTBs. Rear disc would make all the difference.

Prior to the M2, I had a black steel rigid Stumpjumper (must have been around 1988 vintage) and my first bike, a Rockhopper from about 1986/7 with the chain stay U brake.

Also because a decent one was a lot lighter than a modern bike!

No, not really. A decent XC bike now still weighs under 10kg which was still ballpark for 90s bling. The only problem was that back then there weren't other options. In some ways you can't compare an early 90s bike to a modern trail bike because they are really pretty different things. When you choose your 27lb carbon Enduro sled now you're buying something that simply didn't exist in any form then.

Here's what i was riding at the weekend - my 20s FS XC weapon being hors de combat due to a warrenty issue. Rejuventated the '98 Rockhopper Comp. Resonably quick climbing, bumpy on the flat, and exciting on the descents. Get those cool dual control levers!

Here’s what i was riding at the weekend – my 20s FS XC weapon being hors de combat due to a warrenty issue. Rejuventated the ’98 Rockhopper Comp. Resonably quick climbing, bumpy on the flat, and exciting on the descents. Get those cool dual control levers! Don't seem to be able to upload images tho....

https://www.strava.com/activities/5060621883

@molgrips

Aren’t you Cardiff based?

Not I. Other end of the M50. Only 2 stops away by train tho . Parents in N Wales.

Fancy a classic Valleys ride after I’m done digging my garden?

That’s a great offer thnks, deffo after restrictions lift and when I can get up to scratch(ish)

Have been enforced off MTB (and most road) last 6 months with re-injury. Exploratory MTBimble last week of 5 miles was disappointing. Plenty of walking up hills and swearing. Singlespeed is my future with emtb plan B.

Just bought a set of frame bags so remaining optimistic after close to sacking it all off last autumn.

#notalostcause
#biffer

first bike, a Rockhopper from about 1986/7 with the chain stay U brake.

That was my 2nd MTB, bought as a used frame and swapped parts over from 1st. IIRC the flat bars I specced were about 450mm 🤣🤣

I’ll never fully get why early MTB designers (and us serial fettlers) seemed to think that a slammed front end and narrow bar = the ideal offroad experience. Even remember toptubes sloping forwards (presumably offering extra fallover clearance)

I’ll never fully get why early MTB designers (and us serial fettlers) seemed to think that a slammed front end and narrow bar = the ideal offroad experience.

Because when you're used to road bikes, and you get on an MTB like that it feels natural, like the 'right' setup. My mate runs his 2005 MTB like that and likes it, cos he's really a roadie and doesn't care for anything technical. It climbs well but is frighteningly unstable when you try and do what you're used to doing on a modern bike.

When you get on a new bike you sort of want it to be like your old one - it takes a bit of effort to un-learn what felt right on that one and figure out what's right on the new one. And most adults who were MTBing were outdoorsy people who wanted to get out in to the hills, or roadies who fancied a different sort of race format. It was us kids who were trying to do jumps or seeking out the bonkers steep stuff to try and get down with your arse over the back of the saddle.

^ Most likely some truth to that, especially the race format of the time.

It’s interesting to me as my first ‘grownup’ bike @ 15yo was a 54cm Carlton (road) racing bike. Before that I’d had a Tomahawk and a 26” ‘tracker’ (kids road bike that I put cross tyres and cow horn bars on) for ‘jumping’ and ‘downhill skidding’

The bike I’d ridden (friend’s bike) that I most liked offroad was a Raleigh Grifter. I never got to own one but it just felt right.

FFWD to 1989/90 my road bike was broken and I’d seen these MTBs/ATBs in my LBS so went for a look. I was sold. I chose a frame the same size as my road bike (first ‘mistake’ but the reach was correct even if the standover was nutcracking)

I dug the higher front end (was a riser stem) and nearly everything else about it. It was more ATB to be fair. Wealthy-parented peers on Alpinestars and racey GTs seemed much more bent over into the wind.

FFWD a bit and a few issues of MBUK marketing soak was taking effect on my sensibilities. Soon enough I too wanted to get into the head-down lightweight business, so slammed my stem and chopped the bars. Raised the seatpost. Bike looked cool like Mint Sauce’s, but I can’t say I enjoyed riding it like I enjoyed viewing it. Polar opposites. Then switched to a mid 90s Cinder Cone, fitted high riser Monkeybars and higher/shorter stem and MTB began to feel a lot better. Things had begun to change for the better by 1994 but it was going to be the work of decades to get where we are.

Most likely some truth to that, especially the race format of the time.

I remember plenty of singletrack in the races I did at the time, none particularly technical but it would definitely have been better on a modern bike. But no-one really realised what was possible because no-one had ever conceived the bikes we now have. A load of roadies and road bike designers were asked to design bikes that could be ridden off-road, and that's what they came up with. Cycling was all about fitness, speed or getting places, or any combination of those things. People had started doing 'rad' stuff but it took a while for people to realise that bikes could be significantly redesigned for it, and even longer to realise that people might want a combination of rideability and technical ability.

I remember plenty of singletrack in the races I did at the time,

No, there really wasn't. I started racing (and helping organise) races in Wales in the mid 90s. If you raced anywhere is south Wales in that period, we were probably on the same start line, and I'd possibly laid out the course. There WAS singletrack, just not much of it at all, and just as likely to be around or down a tussocky, grassy hillside as anywhere else. At Afan we raced almost entirely on fire roads, even when we followed the course of what became Penhydd a couple of years later. The most technical course I remember was at Barry Sidings, and that was because of how steep it is, not how difficult it was - most of the descent was on fire road again.

I recently read a report of the '99 Mountain Mayhem, where the writer said that a team member got scared because the course was so technical. Sandwell Park, too technical!

I recently read a report of the ’99 Mountain Mayhem, where the writer said that a team member got scared because the course was so technical. Sandwell Park, too technical!

That is hilarious!

If you raced anywhere is south Wales in that period, we were probably on the same start line

I did a handful of races in Shropshire/Herefordshire, and there was definitely singletrack, by which I mean not fire-roads or wide tracks but 'paths'.

@RP (and anyone else interested)

Part 2

https://advntr.cc/how-to-turn-an-old-mtb-into-a-gravel-bike/

Thanks @NM Some good tips in there.

K think this belongs here then

I've given the old RockHopper a bit more love.

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Doesn't look that different really, but it was stripped right back to the bare frame and rebuilt with a number of new parts. In particular it now has V-brakes (instead of cantis) and the drivetrain is a "9 of 10" setup with ten speed shifters, mech and cassette but with the smallest sprocket removed so it fits on the 7 speed freehub.

It's not particularly pretty. The new chunky stem doesn't work visually with the skinny tubes and some stick on cable guides would look a bit neater than that zip tie on the top tube. But it all works and actually feels pretty good.

I'd agree with Spindatt that it's not fast. My current best guess is that it's around 10-15% slower than the gravel bike on a mix of roads and very tame trails. That's comparing with the gravel bike running moderately chunky 650x47mm tyres. Putting on the slicker 700x38mm tyres makes the gravel bike almost 10% faster again. It would get a lot closer on rougher trails I'm sure, but once I get to those I'd rather be on the full-suss MTB anyway. But this bike isn't about speed. It's just a bit of fun and those old skinny steel frames do have a nice "spring" to them.

Set some Strava PR's on my old 90's MTB yesterday. Just bridleways, not particualrly bumpy, and cheap 2.0 tyres and mudguards. Much faster than the Minions on the FS.