[Closed] It had to happen - Strava litigation

"I looked at this strava and quickly concluded there was no accuracy involved whatsoever and therefore it was pointless.

am i wrong?"

Of course its not accurate. I know if I ride the same route with a mate, we will record 2 different total distances and average speeds etc even though we have ridden the same route!

Plus the fact that the segments are only (relatively) short so I imagine some sad folk will literally turn up to that segment and blast it as fast as they can, which is no real sign of fitness.

However, I recently uploaded a few of my Endomondo routes in to Strava and was quite chuffed to see that I was quite high up the rankings on some roadie climbs, which must mean I am fitter than I thought.

There is one off road section of wood that I ride quite often and to be fair I was half tempted to go and ride it again just to try and get the KOM. However, what is the point really, if I rode straight there I am confident I could easily get it, however if I did it off the back of a 30 mile ride I know I wouldn't. Sessioning stuff for KOM times is just a bit pointless. I guess as has been said above, if you really want to find out how fit you are, enter a race.

A man died trying to impress the internet, very very sad.
+1

Remeber where you are and what you are doing - me and my mates 'race' all the time on the trails - we know when to cool it though, round blind corners, junctions etc.

Your KOM isn't worth cleaning up someone on a bend and if you don't know that you shouldn't be allowed out of the house

Any form of racing that encourages folk to take risks is dangerous.

there's a big difference in seeing how fast you can pin a descent, or smash a climb to dangerously crossing roads, running lights and so on.

the app gives you a big warning at the start, anyway. so,as some people refuse to take responsibility for their actions and ignore it, lets put a maximum speed limit on everything whilst wearing flouro tabards.

as mountaineers say: "no points for being dead"

Strava are VC funded and, given this is a totally foreseeable situation, I'm sure they have a plan on how to deal with it.

It's nonsense that Strava is for people too cowardly to race. I enjoy Strava by riding from the doorstep with, and 'against' my buddies. I don't care where I would come in a race and I can't be ***ed to spend hours driving around the country just to line up with loads of others on a startline and push and shove for a couple of hours. Not what I want to do.

(As for anyone racing Ranmore Road descent while the tip is open - I hope it's quick for you).

Used responsibly it can be a useful training tool to gauge how much your fitness has improved. For instance, me and my mate are both training for 24 solo at Twentyfour12. He's fitter and faster than me so where as I know I'm getting fitter and faster so is he so it's difficult to gauge how much I've improved. This is where I find Strava useful, I upload my rides and hopefully it tells me I have x amount of PRs.

A good example is this. I rode at Afan Argoed on Saturday, the weather was dire, high winds and heavy rain and I felt tired and slow. But when I uploaded to Strava I had 7 PRs.

[i]Any form of racing that encourages folk to take risks is dangerous.[/i]

We'd better stop that World Cup Downhill for a start then - those Athertons etc take no end of risks to record a quick time and they're only racing against the clock not other people on the course at the same time.

I dont use strava (so you cant sue me (or them))

If the mood takes me i do ride DH's and bridleways as fast as i can.

What makes a strava user any worse than any other rider who decides to ride as fast as they can?

When will people accept that there must be some personal responsibility taken whenever you walk out the door

titusrider - there is some 'evidence' to suggest that people will go faster on a particular section of trail because they know it's a segment rather than just because the whim took them.

The worst one is as per the OP people who believe they are in with a chance of a KOM as they're pretty focused on going quick and *may* put that above their own or other peoples safety. This has probably always happened on group rides it's just that Strava has increased both the audience and participants for the whole process.

There's some trails I've ridden where I've never seen another mtber but I know from Strava that dozens of people ride them and record times.

Any form of racing that encourages folk to take risks is dangerous.

Yeup, it's dangerous (on a sliding scale between falling out of bed and lion tameing), doesn't make it wrong through.

People need to get a sense of perspective here. This is all sounding like the hysteria around Facebook and Twitter or any other internet craze.

Strava isn't evil, or for people "too scared to race". Theres a huge number of pro's on there too using it for training.

If it was removed from the internet tomorrow I'm sure people would carry on having impromptu race. I mean is it really that different from Silly Commuter Racing?
http://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/the-chain-game-6401697.html

Its definitely inaccurate though, especially on short off-road stuff. Some of those top Barry Knows Best tracks look nothing like the trail.

is it really that different from Silly Commuter Racing

SCR Rules;

Some Basic Rules:
No Dangerous Manoeuvres – Don’t be a danger to any other road users or yourself. Falling off causes pain to you and others around you, don’t do it! (oh and you lose yer points)
Don’t ride like a fool, we’re all just trying to get somewhere!
No passing at Lights/Junction/Crossings, if you do, it doesn’t count
All passing on open road ONLY. Filtering in traffic is null and void (you know whether you’ve dropped someone fairly, and haven’t turned off straight afterwards)
Pavement passes, either you or the target, are void
Show no pain, unless your face is just like that

I suspect that many of the Strava saddos trying to impress the interwebz don't exactly follow what are really rather decent rules of the road.

I suspect that many of the Strava saddos trying to impress the interwebz don't exactly follow what are really rather decent rules of the road.

Neither do many people who aren't "strava saddos".

Remember the courier racing video?

As above, you can't justify risk taking without regard to consequences for other people.
It is fine to put yourself at risk as much as you like, but it almost always puts others in danger. This goes for racing in any form.

Strava has increased both the audience and participants for the whole process.

I believe this has summed up any potential problems that strava has caused. Good comment

Heck I just thought it was quite interesting to stick it in my back pocket and have a look at the route when I got home. I didn't realise it was one of the Great Moral Issues of our time.

I found it quite interesting that my 'quick ride' route had 1500' of climbing. It's also rather nice to see my hill times dropping as I get fitter. Something I'd never have bothered getting a measure of without it. So if it means I try a tiny bit harder on some of the climbs to drag myself from 8th to 7th place, that's not such a bad thing.

My one KOM is a route no bugger rides 🙂

from the last half dozen strava debates

Rule 1
Dont be a t***

Rule 2
Remember rule 1

The one thing that is worse than braking rule 1 is blaming something else.

Again some of the comments sound more like the daily hate that anything else - internet is bad, think of the kids, wan't like this in my day

I wish I could use it but my iPhone 4s (the newest bloody model) drops the signal constantly. Granted I'm deep in the woods. I want to be part of the problem instead of just commenting on it

It's all a storm in a tea cup, will be talking about what colour frock the queen is wearing next week (1st on a floral number with velvet elbow patches)

What I want to know is who cares who is the fastest down a hill on the road? I can sort of understand the off-road descent segments, but the road descents are pretty pointless. The clue is in the title, "KOM" and that the automatic segments only go up the hills......

user error nowt to do with strava

I didn't know that Strava auto-generates segments. Interesting. It possibly explains a couple of very odd local ones.

Anyway - Strava is news, which means it makes the news. This is no more important than all those silly press stories about people bullying on facebook, organising riots via Blackberrys, racism via twitter, etc.

People are people. We are occasionally stupid. We'll use whatever tools are out there to do the same stupid things.

Most of the strava segments near where I live seem ok and safe enough, however there are still places where people could get themselves into trouble doing silly stuff.

There are some silly ones on shared paths though - union canal and downhill on the Water of Leith path, however it looks like some of those have now been marked as hazardous or deleted.

Strava should have done a risk assessment and a clause warning their users of riding safely - if so then surely it's in Strada's favour?

If not, they could be in trouble!

R.I.P. rider.

Strava is ultimately a bit sad and a bit cringe worthy. If you want to race, then do a race.

I usually race my mum in her car on my local road loops.

It had to happen eventually but typical Americans. As mentioned previously we have sections that pass through junctions, roundabouts etc but if you're riding like a **** and not respecting road safety / highway code etc then it's your fault and not Strava. They do ahve a disclaimer but no doubt solicitors will pull it apart

YOU EXPRESSLY AGREE THAT YOUR ATHLETIC ACTIVITIES, WHICH GENERATE THE CONTENT YOU POST OR SEEK TO POST ON THE SITE (INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO CYCLING) CARRY CERTAIN INHERENT AND SIGNIFICANT RISKS OF PROPERTY DAMAGE, BODILY INJURY OR DEATH AND THAT YOU VOLUNTARILY ASSUME ALL KNOWN AND UNKNOWN RISKS ASSOCIATED WITH THESE ACTIVITIES EVEN IF CAUSED IN WHOLE OR PART BY THE ACTION, INACTION OR NEGLIGENCE OF STRAVA OR BY THE ACTION, INACTION OR NEGLIGENCE OF OTHERS. YOU ALSO EXPRESSLY AGREE THAT STRAVA DOES NOT ASSUME RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE INSPECTION, SUPERVISION, PREPARATION, OR CONDUCT OF ANY RACE, CONTEST, GROUP RIDE OR EVENT THAT UTILIZES STRAVA’S SITE.

Strava is ultimately a bit sad and a bit cringe worthy

Reasonable idea badly implemented?

It's a decent idea well implemented. The problem is that people are competitive and as such will act like tools to get that KoM, be it driving up roads to get that elusive KoM, killing themselves etc.

I couldn't be bothered to read all the thread, but how long will it be before someone tries to sue Strava because they had a heart attack trying to get a KOM on a climb?

I don't see why strava should be held responsible for the stupidity of it's users.

I couldn't be bothered to read all the thread, but how long will it be before someone tries to sue Strava because they had a heart attack trying to get a KOM on a climb?

I was just about to post, can I sue apple if they don't put numerous warnings on their Ipods?

I.e, Don't use this whilst you ride a bicycle incase you have a traffic accident.
Don't use this with the volume too high incase you sue us for ear damage...

cheese@4p - Member
I don't see why strava should be held responsible for the stupidity of it's users.

I'd agree with that, why only today they 'Strava' were bothering me as to why I hadn't posted of late and I'd actually stopped using it because of the stupidity of others keep beating my fast times...

How does it differ from trying to catch or out run your mate on a trail?

I think the strava haters (I am ambivalent) would argue that strava is sad/naff/lame as it is anonymous. If I race my mates and get my @rse handed to me on a plate, they wont let me forget it. Everyone who passed me at Bikefest could see and judge for themselves what sort of person I was and on what sort of bike. It fits with the internet keyboard warrior stereotype. You have no idea who youve raced against and knocked off a KOM, and if you lose no one knows or sees it, if you "win" people only know because you tell everybody. Competition without the jeopardy or fear of failure.

I map my rides with an app on my phone, for my own interest to see if I'm improving. I dont feel the need to load it on the internet and compare it to people Ive never met, as I dont care how fast "they" are. I want to get fitter and faster compared to my own level and standards, not someone elses.

On the internet, no one can see you lose.

tbh, I mostly compare my times on Strava that I know, even if they didn't ride a segment at the same time as me.

I dont feel the need to load it on the internet and compare it to people Ive never met

You can create groups on Strava and just compare with people you know.

fair enough, like I said I'm not a hater or a user, just playing devils advocate and attempting to verbalise the argument detractors seem to be making.

You can create groups on Strava and just compare with people you know.

Or just compare it to your own previous times to work out how you're progressing - that's mainly what I use it for.

I'm not going to be threatening too many KOM's (I've got one 2nd at the moment, a few top-10's but on some routes that are more commonly used by roadies I'm happy to be in the top 50!) for a while though!

This is dumb and shouldn't even make news.

Volenti non fit injuria.

Next?

wwaswas - Member
> Any form of racing that encourages folk to take risks is dangerous.

We'd better stop that World Cup Downhill for a start then - those Athertons etc take no end of risks to record a quick time and they're only racing against the clock not other people on the course at the same time.

Only last week we were lauding Mike Hall for his amazing "round the world" ride. Should someone beat that time, riding individually, is it any less of an achievement because it wasn't part of a race? If someone rides the West Highland Way in a "record" time and posts it on the internet for others to see, does that make him/her irresponsible by encouraging folk to do it even quicker?

Strava is only a tool. Responsibility for risk taking - as with any sport/activity - rests with the participant.

Not saying I agree but IIRC Guiness have banned (or no longer recognize, same difference) round the world records in certain categories due to the dangers. I think Nick Sanders doing it on an R1 in no time at all scared their lawyers...

Well I think it's just one of those wonders of the Internet age you can take or leave and get what you want from, prior to this I used to use trail guru which up and vanished taking a load of pics I took on a ride in the
Pyrenees with it. So with this incarnation I content myself with following winterfold and his hetracil avoiding roadie mates struggling with their mid lives and very entertaining it is to, a few of us are running book on the first heart attack, winterfold currently being odds on favourite.

It's really taken seriously now isn't it. I rode with some guys going for Strava times today. They had a driver pacing them. This was on the A41 near Aston Clinton.
Does Strava take that into account? i.e paced, group, wind direction, approach speed, standing start.

its all rubbish.........

except now im 13th on the notting hill descent and i got stuck behind a taxi

the leader is on 47 km/h which is pretty dangerous on such a busy road

As noted previously, it seems like 'racing' for the sportive generation. If you want to know how you measure up, get on the start line with a number on your back, put your ego on the line and show the world how good you really are.

I rode with some guys going for Strava times today. They had a driver pacing them.

FFS. Seriously?

That may just be the saddest thing I've read in ages.

Whoa, dude, we totally strava'd that m*&%"£$"*$£r! Just wait until we post this on the internet and show everyone how ossum we are! We rock! Woo! YAY!

😐

crikey - Member
As noted previously, it seems like 'racing' for the sportive generation. If you want to know how you measure up, get on the start line with a number on your back, put your ego on the line and show the world how good you really are.