[Closed] Is there too much emphasis on kit in mtbing?

BAN HIM!

you should see triathlon for emphasis on kit!!!!

People who can't ride very well seem to like to have the latest and gratest kit with longer than needed travel etc etc....

Just go to Cwmcarn, Afan etc to see for yourself ;-0

EDIT, but who cares if they are enjoying themselves!

People who can't ride very well seem to like to have the latest and gratest kit with longer than needed travel etc etc....

Have we met?

Yes.

Nothing could make me enjoy my hobby more. Except maybe more time to do it.

Oh, and one of them new carbon Yetis.

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmkit.....

When you need new stuff its nice to buy the best you can afford/justify, it doesnt make it more fun, but rubbish stuff ruins rides.

I do get a kick out of a bargain mind.

simple, you can buy kit, you can't buy fitness or skill.

i think it also why you get a lot car park ATKNI wannabes, they are capable of blinding you with talk but when it comes to riding they are crap.

No different to any other sport really, golf, fishing, running etc etc manufacturers have to make a living you know

Yes - it is media and industry led obsession with new kit. In many ways it is good, making bikes, lighter, faster, stronger. Clothes more water proof, breathable or comfortable and shiney bits just lovelier!

Good - yes, you bet.

Does it improve the experience? This is questionable. I know I enjoy riding now more than ever before and I have been doing it for years. A lot of this is however down to the people I ride with and the fact we have had a nice summer and that I am fitter.

Good / Bad - who cares. Yes there is an emphasis on websites like this because people are bored and kit is nice and something we all have in common.

Threads about rides are good, but only for about 5 minutes and the people who enjoyed them! So they have less interest.

So.... emphasis on kit exists - who cares whether it is enough or two much. It just is. If you enjoy new kit that is great, if you get satisfaction from older stuff or indeed no stuff at all, that is fine too.

It depends upon the rider.

agree with Tinsy - rubbish stuff does ruin rides, or lets say it can ruin rides.

There maybe an emphasis on kit but who cares - it's part of the hobby isn't it. I can spend hours trawling the internet for the perfect piece of kit at the perfect price - it isn't gonna make me any better but I enjoy knowing about stuff.

All sports, hobbies, daily pursuits require kit.

Kit is good.

No one makes anyone buy anything, we all choose to buy it. I'd only be spending it on cameras, hi-fi, a car, or some other pointless hobby.

At least this one keeps me fit.

Yes there's a lot of all gear no idea sorts at Afan/Cwmcarn but seriously so what? They're enjoying themselves and they're normally happy to move over if you ask nicely?

I'm always curious to know what the OP rides in these sorts of threads because 9 times out of ten it's something like a GT Avalanche or a Carerra and it turns out it's just a huge chip-on-shoulder, inverse snobbery type thing... Not saying there's anything wrong with these bikes, but often their owners on message boards seem to have a subconscious problem with them...

Yes there is a lot of emphasis on kit but without a bike the downhills would be a lot less fun! 🙂

Ponders while scratching chin looking at new Thomson seat post that arrived to my desk this morning. 😕

shortcut has it -

[i]"kit is nice "[/i]

people seem to change their bikes every year when their really is no need and always seem to be buying the latest gizmo or swapping forks all the time.
i can't see the point in it myself, the rampant consumerism has everything to do with a childlike addictive personality craving instant gratification but little to do with actual cycling

[i]I'm always curious to know what the OP rides in these sorts of threads [/i]

[b]Topics started[/b]
8.what size bb for my Gary fisher cake? - Started: 3 months ago | No replies.
10.FS Dialled Bikes Prince Albert Frame - Started: 5 months ago | Most recent reply: 4 months ago

Agreed, some riders obsession with the latest kit offerings make them forget about the riding, and the true essence of why most people ride mountain bikes.

Hey Gary, I have a Carrera and the Fury is a great bike that has served me well over the last two years! I have no chip on my shoulder at all (but I do have a week old '09 Fuel EX 9 in the shed now as well). 😉 <-EDIT, missed my smilie Gary 🙂
The bike makes stuff easier and I get less of a battering but mainly I think I can do stuff now, so I do it.
So the bike does make me a better rider I guess? So will the tubeless kit when it arrives, if I get waterproof shorts to keep my ass dry in the rain, that will just make it more comfortable.
So yea, kit is good/necessary, just not all of it.

Sorry Tracker, I was just being very flippant, I used to post on BikeRadar a lot and what I described was literally a one-a-day occurrence... these threads end up screaming here we go again to me

Yes 🙂 personally i like things simple and basic, rigid bike with big tyres, all honesty i ride better.

I havent ridden my bike in about 2mths now. Too busy with playing football and running my sons football team now.

Anyhow i have now got to the point where every time i walk past my bike i realise what a money pit it was/is. Its not overly bling, just a pipedream sirius with XT/XTR drivetrain/hope hoops etc. Maybe a bit over £1k. Well as i havent been riding i havent been looking at the grips that are just a little better than the last ones for £20. Or the tyres which suit wet weather cos my bonty tyres are too worn for £50 or the replacement BB for £40 etc etc etc. Thats without having to buy a new winter set of clothing because the current gear is hanging together £££££.

Biking costs big bucks and there is nothing wrong with that in itself. I do however question peoples priorities. I would hazard that the vast majority of people are into Mountain Biking for the gear and bling as much as the actual riding.

i see it from both angles as i have a shop and make a good living out of various levels of kit addiction...but your right to question it.i rode to work this morning on my outrageous carbon road bike,with more than 600 quids worth of clothing on pondering wether i was a happier biker...

well the bike is truly faultless which is nice and i was relatively dry/warm on a 20 mile commute(it was raining the whole way) great kit does work better than i ever remember it working(v-brakes in mud,waterproof jackets that didnt breath,gears that never shifted very quickly,front forks that work,even with my weight! the list is endless)

im much keener as i get older on better stuff and most of it works now...new products every so often come out and they are truly brilliant(such as the new lights that are available)
i think these will revolutionise how we all think about road bikes in winter (ie no winter bike needed) what a great product!
http://www.cycle-world.co.uk/products.php?plid=m2b41s80p8417&z=10423

Are we obsessed with kit?
(sweeping generalisation) absolutley! and nowt wrong with that, just as long as you don't forget to ride the thing.

I would just point out that anyone who only ever rides blinged up fs bikes should try a rigid pig iron bike from time to time to remind you of simpler times and shear enjoyment (and makes you more appreciative of the expensive stuff you spent so much on)

🙂

does the Pope shit in the woods ?

I think we're all dining at the same banquet, it's just that some of us are using the posh silverware. 🙂

Look at bikes today compared to 1999, or 1989......I think there have been massive improvements.

But what will we have in 2019? Will we see as big leaps forward? I doubt it myself. Most of the current materials are getting pretty well optimised, suspensions designs are more mature now (tried out most of the rubbish ideas), tyres are pretty clever, the humble deraileur has been massively refined....All thanks to us lapping up the latest designs of course.

So maybe as the kit levels off it will get a bit less geeky, and concentrate more on the riding, the trails, the view.

Checked out a couple of TT/aero forums recently 😯 too geeky and seems to involve throwing huge amounts of cash at diminishing returns

Talking about this last night, and I really have reached a point were I can't be doing with spending on stuff. As long as the bikes work I'm happy.

I'm certainly aware that I now think that some things are indispensible even though not having them a couple of years ago didn't stop me doing stuff and having a good time. I'm thinking more of walking/climbing stuff more than MTBing because I've only got into MTBing when I had a bit more income, but back when I got into climbing I had very little kit and got by. Now if I've forgotten something or am missing some piece of kit I often see it as a real problem, so I think there is a tendency to allow it to become a bit too prominent in your life.

That said, there's no denying that good kit is worth having and can make you a lot more comfortable.

Kit is good and necessary yes but what gets me is the way that it's thrown at you. Company A makes a bike X which the mags rave about, it's the "perfect" UK trail bike. Next year they move the pivot point by a couple of mm, change the bearing size and call it the X1.
Mags rave about it, say how much better it is and suddenly the X is dead, in fact when you come to replace the bearings in your X they're not made anymore cos X1 is now 'the standard'.

Kit is all well and good but the proliferation of "standards", none of which are actually standard at all is a total pain. It makes life very difficult for small bike shops who simply can't stock everything and for customers who get thoroughly confused.

I'm all for development and improvement but it's got to the point where there's no massive leap, it's all steady trickle trickle but which the industry has to try and convince people is new and radical.

does the pope shit in the woods ?

But what's the sound of one hand wiping?

I can't be doing with spending on stuff. As long as the bikes work I'm happy.

if only it were that simple 🙁

the humble deraileur has been massively refined

how so? Apart from different methods of cable entry the seem much as they always have been...

D0NK - Member
Are we obsessed with kit?
(sweeping generalisation) absolutley! and nowt wrong with that, just as long as you don't forget to ride the thing

PS he does actualy ride said rigid from time to time and I still cant keep up with him 😳

Actually the main thing that gets me is the thought (in most indutries/professions) that buying Shiny New Thing A will make them 'better' in whatever perceived fashion (ie a better rider).
In bike terms it's even more difficult to define. Buying a 6" travel full sus doesn't make you a better rider, it arguably makes you *worse* The rider still has the same skill level but the bike is so good that it basically allows you to get away with being rubbish. People concentrate far too much on kit and not enough on their own basic skills/fitness a lot of the time.
The same is true in most equipment driven industries TBH. Photography is another good example.

I'm all for development and improvement but it's got to the point where there's no massive leap, it's all steady trickle trickle but which the industry has to try and convince people is new and radical.

Very true and it's also noticeable that many genuine advances in riding (in the sense of doing stuff that no-one thought was possible on a bike) tend to come from people with rigid forks and 1 gear - think Danny Macaskill, Scotty Cranmer et al.

Will we see as big leaps forward? I doubt it myself.

Still waiting for cheap light reliable efficient belt drive, hub geared systems (I won't hold my breath)

I love buying top end stuff but then I'm a total label-queen. If you buy wisely good stuff lasts for ever, my old XTR dual shifters and mechs and brakes are starting to look a bit bashed up but still work perfectly after 5yrs. I took great pleasure in putting them on a shiny new Ti frame recently along with a King headset (in red, white and blue) and Thomson stem/post.

......and now and again something comes along that just looks lovely and will make riding more fun. Lapierre 2010 full carbon Zesty frame I am looking at you. That or the the Blur carbon......ooooooooh.

Photography is another good example.

except that a better camera won't compensate for lack of skill and merely give you a lot more bad photos :o)

Photography is another good example.

photography is very driven by the amateur market, they keep the cost down on 'professional' equipment and guarantee a ready supply of lightly used second hand equipment. all that gear just to take pics of sunsets 🙂

in answer to the original question then yes.

Before cycling I was into swimming. Pair of Speedos, goggles and a towel and that was it.

When I [i]really[/i] got into it I splashed out (no pun intended) on a shower gel that counteracted the chlorine smell.

Very cheap sport (although a bit boring ploughing up and down 60 lengths face down in the water which is why i took up MTB'ing).

BTW, after a while the 'S' wore off my trunks. Couldn't work out why all the mums in the pool kept giving me funny looks 😉

Most people who ride a (mountain)bike rarely buy a bike mag
Even fewer bother to stay very long on forums

So don't base your views of cyclists on the tiny proportion of those who bother to post here.
They/we/you are far from representative of 'mtb-ers as a whole' and represent the freak-end of the biking spectrum - I mean look at some of the 'debates' on here and say they're not from an episode of 'when geeks go bad'
😉

lol

I love kit but have no money!

So I ride instead.

......and now and again something comes along that just looks lovely and will make riding more fun. Lapierre 2010 full carbon Zesty frame I am looking at you. That or the the Blur carbon......ooooooooh.

So the marketing works then?

Do those bikes work any better than equivalent bikes of half the price?

There are worse things to spend money on and I'm sure we all don't need the quality of some of the kit we have but so what? I love the fact that my bikes are worth much more than my car - what's the fun in spending on money on a steel box that you sit inside when in traffic jams yet plenty of people waste much more money on cars and gyms and stuff that don't interest me.

My bike spending tends to be inversely proportional to the amount I ride - If I can't ride I spend more time on hear and reading mags which give me the itch to get something shiny and new 😉

Most people I've ridden with don't care what kit you've got. I like kit so can quite happily wander around a bike shop looking at it even if I'm never going to buy it.

I'm interested in the mechanical side of biking as well as the riding so will always be interested in a new fangled suspension doodaa. Doesn't mean I'll buy it and I don't for a second believe it will make me a better rider although it may make me quicker (well my first lightweigh full suss after a freeride hardtail certainly added some va va voom)

I'm riding a rigid bike that I bought for £500 5 years ago and have since taken the gears off. I think it has maybe six moving parts?

If i didn't spend money on bike kit then I'd spend it on beer. At least with bike kit I can usually remember what happened after I used it for a period of time!

For the person who asked about what the original poster rides, he has a gary fisher cake with revel;ations and other upgrades, a kinesis xc 120, with revs, hope pro3 wheels, just bought a new thomspn post, hope seatclamp, time pedals etc, a custom made steel road bike, and a gt avalanche built as a singlespeed (blasphemy).

He was probably talking about me and my addiction to buying new bike parts i really cant afford, then selling them 6 months later.

One thing which hasn't been mentioned is the role which gender has on peoples perceptions of sports/activities/hobbies etc. I saw a report several months ago which basically said that although both men and women can enjoy any sport/hobby equally, how that enjoyment is expressed differs massively.

In a (very simplified) nutshell:

Women - happier to talk about emotions etc so a post ride (in the case of cycling) conversation is about how scared, happy, confident they felt and the sharing of "the experience".

Blokes - not good with expressing genuine emotion so the post activity talk revolves around technical geekery and mechanical performance ie "my forks felt plush, my hubs seemed grindy" etc etc

A womens only forum (not visible to men) for any activity is likely to have much less emphasis on kit whilst the male equivalent uses the crutch of "what tires for Dalby red?" type conversations as a euphemism for "mtbing makes me happy but I'm not confident in my abilities to ride Dalby red so I'm looking for assurance and comforting words".

From there it's a slippery slope from talking about the mechanics of biking to understanding groupset rankings, rebound adjustment etc and from there to buying kit you don't really need...

So yeah, male mtbers just want to be loved and enjoy friendships with similarly afflicted and can't find other ways to express themselves other than through kit discussions!

According to the report thing anyway, I didn't write it and it could well be pseudo-scientific bollocks. 😉

[i]except that a better camera won't compensate for lack of skill and merely give you a lot more bad photos :o) [/i]

That's my point. Buying a fancy camera doesn not make you a better photographer in the same way that buying a fancy bike doesn't make you a better rider. There's a lot of people out there bouncing wildly down a descent not because of any skill on their part but because the bike is so good that it allows them to get away with it.
Same as your car having all the fancy sat-nav, ABS, suspension that stiffens in corners blah blah, it doesn't make you any better at driving it, it often makes you worse cos you *know* you can leave the braking late or take that corner at speed etc.

Having moved from a hardtail to a full suss bike this year, I've found myself riding and attacking stuff that I'd have minced down, or even walked down previously. Having the confidence to commit has helped improve my riding, and the knowledge that the bike will get me out of trouble helps me to try things that I wouldn't have previously, letting me improve my technique over drops, shore, and jumps.

Yeah Kramer same here exactly. Kit has definitely made an improvement for me. I don't really see that many rubbish riders tearing up DH runs just cos they bought a decent FS.
People who are saying that seem to be assuming that you're only a good rider if you could go as fast on a HT. I don't get it. It's more about what can you do with your machine.

There's a lot of people out there bouncing wildly down a descent not because of any skill on their part but because the bike is so good that it allows them to get away with it.

I don't quite buy that argument - I understand, but don't fully agree.
If I can't get down a difficult run on a rigid bike, does that make cleaning it on a fully suspended bike less of an achievement?
Technological advances make it possible for the average person to perform sporting feats (climbing, skiing off the top of my head) that were out of their reach a generation or less ago.

Mountain bikes cost too much to keep - full stop, replacement components are over priced and the cheap stuff is crap that is not cheap at all.
I want the best I can get to keep my 5 year old enduro going but I’m just not will to pay the prices being asked.
Whilst out running last night I was asked to compete in the “Open5/12/24 etc” series but had to decline as I simply can’t afford to maintain mountain bikes that fall apart when used for the intended purpose.
The person asking takes her bike to her LBS where it costs more to keep than her car!!!

As Jo Burt put it rather succinctly in that 'other publication' edited by Chipps:

[img] [/img]

I've been into mountain bikes since the mid eighties, bought my first bike in '88, and I've been buying mags since then. There is nothing different now to what was happening then. Fact. Any sport or pastime that has any kind of tech in it will have massive amounts of promotion or advertising aimed at selling the latest whizzy piece of kit. You don't have to buy it. The benefit is longevity. Good kit lasts longer. If a kit-fetishist buys fancy toys and sells it on six months later, well, who's business is it? The person buying it benefits from upgrading to bits he/she would otherwise be unable to afford, and their bits go to either another bike or someone further down the food chain being able to upgrade. I've got kit that cost me lots, but is now years old, still working, and has been on a number of frames. Other bits get changed as and when. I really don't see a problem. I would suggest the OP tracking down a top of the range bike from the late eighties and compare with a modern equivalent and see what the kit arms race has achieved. For example, an '88 Stumpjumper, which was my first MTB, and an '08/09 Stumpy. Then tell me there's too much emphasis on kit.

@Peregrine

"Mountain bikes cost too much to keep - full stop ... I simply can’t afford to maintain mountain bikes that fall apart when used for the intended purpose."

9-speed gear has been around for more than ten years now, there's scads of new and nearly new floating around on eBay pretty cheap. Suspension is a different matter, a right pain in the arse to be honest, but it's largely a case of letting others trail test for you to find out what works and keeps on working, and then trying to get hold of the right kit in good condition.

I was pretty shocked at the price of kit coming back to MTBing after nine years away, one of the main reasons I've hurried back to the Retrobike(.co.uk) land from whence I came...

Mountain bikes cost too much to keep - full stop ... I simply can’t afford to maintain mountain bikes that fall apart when used for the intended purpose

I spend very little on bike parts.

So the marketing works then?

Do those bikes work any better than equivalent bikes of half the price?

IdleJon......I have an alu Blur LT1 which I like a lot, suits me well, I ride it pretty hard. I dont however take it on big climbing days out in the Lakes or Spain because its just a couple of pounds heavier than I'd like it to be. ie a carbon version might be perfect. So yes it would make a difference for me but at a cost.

I love bike bling

It makes my life complete

The kit is there if you want to buy it. If you dont , dont.

I like this t-shirt
[img] [/img]

Women - happier to talk about emotions etc so a post ride (in the case of cycling) conversation is about how scared, happy, confident they felt and the sharing of "the experience".

I must be a closet woman - at least, I'd like to be [b]in[/b] a closet with a woman...

I must be a closet woman - at least, I'd like to be in a closet with a woman...

Damn those crafty manufacturers forcing people to buy expensive bikes. Doubtless Mr Shimano and Mr Sram are sitting laughing atop piles of ill-gotten loot.

Technological advances make it possible for the average person to perform sporting feats (climbing, skiing off the top of my head)

LOL you must have a massive head!