Just been reading a bit of the new mag and stuff from other threads saying that 10 speed offers the ability to get rid of the granny. (Not that I would do that to you mum.) I can't quite see that one extra gear will make that much difference to being able to run just one at the front. The range will be slightly more gradually spaced but not enough for all this gushing surely?
I have nothing against 10 speed but is all this gushing really necessary or just marketing hype? If the high and low gears have the same amount of teeth on 10 or 9 speed who cares. I always try to choose a big spread anyway but still need the granny for the tough stuff.
Quote from Mark
'10 speed is not simply a case of 'just another gear'. This tenth sprocket has triggers a more fundamental change in the way the riders will use their gears, be that with a single, double or good old triple chainset.
Well as I run 2x9 11/34 casettee and a 22 / 36 chainring combo that has exactly enough gear range for my needs a 1x10 will not have the same range so is no substitute. I use it as a low / high range - taking the appropriate chainring for the terrain I am on
bit of hype really in my mind.
probably something along the lines of the company thinking:
it costs us money to cast those 4 holes in the crank arm to hold the granny ring which doesn't really get replaced my the end user muc h ... plus its cheap ( i.e. less profit ) to replace the granny ring
lets remove it ( save money ) and put the gear on the back cause its not really going to cost much more to press an extra cog onto the cassette, then that way we can charge for all the new stuff, and still have a part which is going to be replaced on a regular basis for more money as the whole cassette gets swapped ... which is more profit than just swapping the granny ring.
Personally, if the 10spd mtb stuff is anything like the 10spd road, then I'm not fussed over it. I think its getting to the stage where the steps between the travel of the shifter reaching the fringes of travel as a result of play in the system ( cable stretch )
( I still think Shimano STX 7spd has the best feel / shift ! )
what fisha says. Mrs juan has a 8 speed rear setting and lets face it. It shifts actually better than the 9 speed on my bikes
1x isn't for everyone, but for me and a few of my mates it's been a big change.
Having that 36T cog and retaining all the normal gears for a middle ring suddenly means that I don't need a smaller chainring, front mech, cables or shifter. On my race bike it's saved just over a pound, ditto on my other bikes. On a bike that now weighs 22lbs, a pound saving is pretty much impossible in one go elsewhere.
I've got a low enough gear for big mountains (which 32:32 didn't give me) and a big chunk less weight. It's been the biggest difference for my bike since I got discs.
It also shifts beautifully.
But you would of been able to do exactly the same with and 1*9 set up if you had chosen à cassette with the same big and little cogs so what makes ten speed so great except the gear ratios are à bit closer together in the range? Smacks of basic consumerist marketing rather than revolutionary.
Now i've not used 10-speed, but one thing's obvious, 11-36 on a cassette is only a 10-speed feature because SRAM and Shimano have both chosen to make it so.
Obviously a 9-speed 11-36 would have marginally wider ratios but it wouldn't be a huge difference, and we know the mechs can do it thanks to Shimano's 12-36. So they're withholding the hardware.
So, from that point of view it's total hype- they're restricting something that both systems could benefit for just to make it a selling point for 10-speed. And that makes Northwind wroth.
I'd go back to 8 speed if it was made available properly at decent quality and @ current 9 speed prices
I agree on what you are saying OP and I was happily going to stay 2x9 but then when i realised this was coming out:
http://www.bikemagic.com/gear-news/hope-technology-launch-cassette/9382.html
It changed my mind and i'll be heading towards a single 32T front ring and hopefully a 9-36T Hope cassette.
quite happy with 2x9 24/36 chainset with a 32-11 cassette for my riding needs
i find triples a bit of a waste (just don't use the big ring enough)
find 1x9 suitable for some places but not others
I think considering that I want to be in the right gear, not one too high or too low, having close ratio gears (an 11-36 10spd is essentially an 11-32 9spd but with a big cog on it) is pretty important. Retaining the same gears but gaining a lower gear AND losing a big chunk of weight is great.
Fractionally the difference Between 11-36 in 9 steps compared to 10 steps is bugger all.
Enough to make a difference though. It's like the difference between a 23T and 27T cassette on a road bike- it's very noticeable.
It's not for everyone isn't 1x10, like I say. But in 5 years you'll all have it so there's not much point questioning it.
I remember first getting 8 speed having grown up on 7 speed. I was amazed it didn't really seem to make too much difference.
but completely and utterly not revolutionary and really quite dull. I love biking but hate being told i need to buy stuff to be happy (mainly as i am too stupid to not buy stuff) i do tend to get stuff second hand so maybe i should be happy i can get lots of nice 9 speed stuff.
well, we could go round in this circle all day. It's fairly revolutionary in that you no longer need any of the gubbins for a front mech.
Never understood the close ratio business. I just pedal slightly faster or slower. I'd like 9sp 11/36, then I'd risk going 1x9. But I guess the manufacturers don't want that.
It's fairly revolutionary in that you no longer need any of the gubbins for a front mech.
No, YOU no longer need the gubbins. WE do as WE would have to pay full retail 😀
I'd go back to 8 speed if it was made available properly at decent quality and @ current 9 speed prices
Uh?
it is a lot cheaper for an 8speed cassette of similar weight but way stronger than current XT cassette.
decent 8speed shifters are still available, I run sram attack (or is it rocket, can't remember but the higher level of the two which I'd say is X7/9 level but shimano compatable), X7 and XT (got a wee stash of these)
You can buy the bits cheaper on CRC than I got 'em for!
Why didn't you just buy them from CRC then?
We got them in before they did.
SpokesCycles - Member
well, we could go round in this circle all day. It's fairly revolutionary in that you no longer need any of the gubbins for a front mech.
Apart from it does not mean that. You do not get as low a gear as you do with a granny gear - nothing like.
For a reasonably fit rider, you do have a lowest gear that's suitable now though.
My "it's not for everyone" comment is angled at the fact that there are places to ride and people who ride who will need a lower gear than that. In which case any old 36T cassette would do combined with a normal set front set up.
I am quite fit and need my granny. She is very helpful at getting me up techy steep climbs. I suppose I must have been right and all the gushing was not really appropriate as nobody has really said what the real benefit is. Upping the number of gears is always actually going to be a law of diminishing returns as the fractions between the gears gets less each time.
Fractionally the difference Between 11-36 in 9 steps compared to 10 steps is bugger all.
Yeah, when I showed my shiny new Remedy to the roadies at work a couple of years back, they were totally underwhelmed by it, prefering instead to excitedly talk about the new 11 speed gears they were getting, and how it 'increased granularity'.....BIIIGGGG yawn from me at that point.
I run a triple and use all 3 on a normal ride. I get the impression 10 speed, or the 1x10 option, is trying to tell me I need to spin more on the descents, and spin less on the climbs. That's the complete opposite of how I ride!
It might make a difference for the racing crowd in a similar way to roadies as they like to maintain a set cadence regardless of terrain so smaller gaps between gears helps do that.
For the everyday rider its just more cost and more chance of something failing as it all gets smaller and tighter. As has been said before, if they did a 9 speed 11-36 I think it would do a lot of people.
It's fairly revolutionary in that you no longer need any of the gubbins for a front mech.
Well, apart from a bashguard, chain catcher, downhill rollers etc. etc. that everybody then puts on the stop the chain coming off now the front mech isn't there. Though, to be fair I do appreciate they are lighter/simpler than a mech/shifter.
That Canyon three speed internal hub looks interesting - three speed hub with the facility to put a normal cassette over the top.
[i]No, YOU no longer need the gubbins. WE do as WE would have to pay full retail [/i]
LOL, as if anyone on here pays full retail for bike bits.
SpokesCycles - Member
"For a reasonably fit rider, you do have a lowest gear that's suitable now though."
Ah now that depends on all manner of things. I'm reasonably fit and around here my 1x9 32T front, 11-34 rear) is fine, but if I'd tried to use 1x9 in france it would have had to be on a 26T front or something, otherwise I just wouldn't have got up the mountains.