Bit of an antagonistic heading, sorry. Bit of background - I'm after a new bike. Something thats light enough to ride for long days, touch enough to take to the Alps for endless off-piste stuff and playful enough to make trails closer to home that don't have the length or steepness to the Alps/Tweed Valley etc feel fun.
I currently ride a 2022 Orange Five Evo. Its my current in a long list of Orange single pivot bikes and I just can't get away from the fact that I love them. But I fancy something "new" with a tad more travel and 29"/MX wheelset to make lighter work of some of my riding but still be able to do a big all dayer in the Lakes etc. Looking around, theres not a lot that excites me. I'm drawn to the cheap Intense Tracer 279s at RM Cycles but there are question marks over some of the spec and jumping from a single pivot that copes with my maintenance levels/borderline neglect to something carbon with lots of bearings etc scares me a bit.
So I go to the Orange website and there are mk1 2021 Switch 6 frames for £825. I look at the geometry and theres barely any difference between that and many 2025 bikes (apart from the 145 v 160mm travel, the geometry is nigh on bang on the same as the 2024 Switch 6). And I can build up a sub £3k bike with a pretty decent spec (36s, XT, Hope wheels etc).
Any thoughts? I think in actually writing this down, its sort of clarified my thinking and I may get one ordered this aft 😀
Geometry has really settled down in recent years. Because they're literally sitting on top of their production facilities when it comes to their full sus frames, they could prototype fast and update their models early, so Orange got to grips with modern geometry pretty early on compared to many others.
As a 2022 Orange Stage Evo rider, just go ahead and do it. Geometry has settled in recent years, and as ever it is not the geometry that holds me back, it is my (lack) of skillz...
As a 2022 Orange Stage Evo rider, just go ahead and do it. Geometry has settled in recent years, and as ever it is not the geometry that holds me back, it is my (lack) of skillz...
On paper, its a slightly longer version of my (year newer!) Five Evo but with a tiny bit more rear travel, I can run a big 160mm fork and 29" front wheel with a higher front end for steep stuff (my bar height must be a good 2" as a minimum lower than all my mate's bikes!). In ticks all the boxes...
I've still not needed anything more than a 2004 Cotic Soul.
YMMV
The days of waiting for something drastic to change in geometry is over at the moment, so I wouldn't look at year models like Kelvin says, just if the geometry suits you. Those frames are a bargain.
Yep it's a bit brand-dependant but I think most smaller/more forward thinking brands like Orange, Cotic etc. really nailed things around 2019/2020 and short of a few gradually steepening seat tubes since are still as modern and capable as most people will need or want.
I think 2010-2020 was quite a steep change curve for most brands in terms of geometry but it seems largely settled from that point barring a few larger/slower or conservative brands or particular models here and there (mainly with XC bikes becoming less racey and more akin to short travel but very efficient trail bikes, this seemed to be the area that lagged the most).
So I go to the Orange website and there are mk1 2021 Switch 6 frames for £825.
I have just rebuilt and been riding mine again.
It's the best bike I've owned in terms of geometry and really good fun to ride. Like you, I've had a series of Orange FS bikes in recent years and nothing rides quite like them eh?
Perfect for off-piste stuff, totally fine in the hills as well - only real comparative weakness is long, gnarly, not-too-steep descents, where pals on full 29ers sometimes pull away from me.
I don't think you'll be disappointed.
As others have said the geo changes in the last 2 or 3 years are so small you probably wont notice. THe change to MX though you will. I did it to my stump by changing the link earlier in the year. Huge improvement imho to the bike and a fa bigger change than a couple of mm of 1/2 a degree here and there
Fellow multiple Orange owner here, and yes the various deals recently have had me thinking!
Just a thought but...
I can run a big 160mm fork and 29" front wheel with a higher front end for steep stuff
Is there anything strictly stopping you putting a bigger fork and 29" wheel in and mulleting your 27.5" Five?
(Of course, this flies strictly in the face of my own advice to myself which is always - if you want a new bike and it will make you happy, just buy the new bloody bike 🤣 )
I've still not needed anything more than a 2004 Cotic Soul.
YMMV
2007 Soda here. Taking it down the LBS for bits and bobs (as in, trying to find parts that fit), and standing back and looking at it side by side with more modern bikes, does make me realise how far things have moved on, but it's still as much bike as I can ride!
As far as I'm concerned the last 5 years have basically been
- Adoption of UDH
- In frame storage bonanza
- Playing with longer chainstays
- Slightly slacker trail bikes
- Slacker xc bikes
- Mullets (on bikes and teenage boys)
Other than that, and if the things on that list it doesn't have don't bother you, crack on.
Get the Orange, they are a proper bargain at that price, if maintenance isn't your strong point you don't want an Intense
Fellow multiple Orange owner here, and yes the various deals recently have had me thinking!
Just a thought but...
I can run a big 160mm fork and 29" front wheel with a higher front end for steep stuff
Is there anything strictly stopping you putting a bigger fork and 29" wheel in and mulleting your 27.5" Five?
(Of course, this flies strictly in the face of my own advice to myself which is always - if you want a new bike and it will make you happy, just buy the new bloody bike 🤣 )
Thought about mulleting the Five but:
- youngest minime has hit a height where he'll now fit my old Alpine 160 which means
- eldest minime can now have the Five given his little brother will be taking "his" Alpine
- which means I need a new bike 😀
Surely you'll be buying an ebike next? 😀
I've still not needed anything more than a 2004 Cotic Soul.
YMMV
2007 Soda here. Taking it down the LBS for bits and bobs (as in, trying to find parts that fit), and standing back and looking at it side by side with more modern bikes, does make me realise how far things have moved on, but it's still as much bike as I can ride!
I had a spin round the car park at Sherwood Pines on the prototype Soda. "Cotic Soda" is a saved ebay search.
If I could justify a new full-sus I'd get one! (Unfortunately my ebike is too good for my off-road commute and my hardtail too good for my local trails and I don't get enough chances to ride a normal full-sus). Total convert to mullet for long-ish travel full-sus since I mulleted my old Levo, amazed how much better it is in the turns.
I read the first paragraph and thought 'that sounds exactly like my Orange Alpine 5', that would be perfect for that.
And then read the second one and thought, oh, he's got something pretty much the same🤣
I've just sold my 2020 Stage 5 which was one of the first Orange to go over to the new style steep seat tube geometry. It was loads different to the 2016 Segment it replaced and miles better. I have replaced it with a bargain second hand 2024 Stage 6 Evo which is the same as the current model. Not much in the geometry tbh, they feel very similar so the Switch should be plenty modern enough.
One thing I will say is the shock makes a big difference. The Stage 5 had a boggo Fox Float DPS which was decent enough but the Float X2 Factory on the 6 is a huge step up and well worth the extra cost.
I was very tempted by the 6 Evo's at Sunset before they sold out of XL's
https://www.sunsetmtb.co.uk/shop/index.php?product_id=11558&category_id=21
My 'new' bike is a 2022 switch 6 with the purple formula selvas. Iv put a sprindex on the mod shock. The geometry is pretty much still cutting edge and lighter than a bunch of the other bikes I was looking at. My first orange so pretty excited.
First ride on mine today and it was lovely. XT brakes need swapping for my Hope's though and the rear mudguard is temporary!
Obviously I'm going to big-up any Switch 6. Mullet makes a significant difference to the handling. I seem to recall the main diffs the latest Switch6 has is UDH (significant), storage compartment (meh), shorter seat tube (great) and slightly more progressive rate (still nicely not-overly-progressive tho IMO). And yeah, 2021 Orange geo is pretty much where a lot of brands are in 2025.
I rode my Mk1 Soul this week. Blimey, this bike wants to kill me! That's with my Pike set at 140mm. It struggles down trails that my drop bar gravel bike (Diverge STR) handles with ease.
As a windsurfer who's been through the rapid development phase with that kit, in my opinion the raw numbers don't tell you the whole story.
Depends on the bike I suppose, my 2021 Privateer 141 still feels bang upto date. Though sometimes I miss the shorter, steeper Five29 it replaced on the tight stuff.
Still riding my 2017 g13 and 2019 G1.
Both still the right geometry for me. If the frame is the right geometry for you go for it
Very much depends on the bike/brand. Orange yes, others not always the case. TBF to Orange I've not given them another chance since the Five I owned way way back in the late 00s / early 2010s, but their geometry in the past 4-5years looks good for me. Not exclusively, but Orange and Cotic are two of the brands I think of being ahead of the curve on the modern geometry I more associate with Geometron.
My 2018 G16 was superb and I'd still be riding it now if I wasn't distracted by a deal on a newer G1.
First ride on mine today and it was lovely. XT brakes need swapping for my Hope's though and the rear mudguard is temporary!
Needs black fork, shock and dropper stanchions to go full "Batbike" with that mudguard 😉
Good to hear you're enjoying it. The long rear must work really well with the longer front end on the XL.
Ah well. Bit of a crap Sunday which resulted in a bad nights sleep which resulted in a Switch 6 and a matching Fox 36 on its way to me 🙂
In frame storage bonanza
I misread that as "bananas" and was ready to order a new frame.
My newest bike is a 2015 Kona Kula. I'm not going to go any faster or have more fun by buying a new frame.
Trust me, I think you would.
Ah well. Bit of a crap Sunday which resulted in a bad nights sleep which resulted in a Switch 6 and a matching Fox 36 on its way to me
Nice one 👍
Did you get the "root beer" colour?
First ride on mine today and it was lovely. XT brakes need swapping for my Hope's though and the rear mudguard is temporary!
Needs black fork, shock and dropper stanchions to go full "Batbike" with that mudguard 😉
Good to hear you're enjoying it. The long rear must work really well with the longer front end on the XL.
Needs me to get it repainted orange to match my other bits tbh! Yeah, it feels a lot like a better version of my Stage 5 tbh which I thought was ace. A bit burlier, a bit more stable, a bit plusher, etc.
Good work on the Switch OP, I'm sure you'll love it!
Ah well. Bit of a crap Sunday which resulted in a bad nights sleep which resulted in a Switch 6 and a matching Fox 36 on its way to me
Nice one 👍
Did you get the "root beer" colour?
Absolutely!
Silly question really, I've been tempted myself even though I love the look of my charcoal grey one.
Do share pics when you've got it built up. And good luck with the cabling 😀
Awesome choice. I really love the 'Yorkshire Teal' Stage Evo they have on the sale page, shame it doesnt have a UDH though (total convert now).
I have had a set of unused Mullet Wheels and Tyres on the rack in my garage for a year now, and I was actually tempted with the Switch purely as a reason to use them 🤣
Cabling - as mentioned, long term serial Orange owner, I'm used to it and have magical ways of dealing with it 😀
Some good deals on their page still - was half tempted by the newer Switch 6 despite it being as ugly as sin vs the older ones but it was only the Angel Delight colour available in medium that was the killer (the worst colour Orange have ever done??). The Switch 7 was tempting too but 170mm of travel I thought would be just too much for what will be a proper all-rounder of a bike.
I'm not just saying this because I have one (OK two), but I feel like that generation of frames might be peak Orange.
I really don't need in-frame storage or a bottle cage(?) enough to justify the inevitable added weight and questionable looks of the new generation frames.
But maybe I'll warm to them over time 🤔
“I feel like that generation of frames might be peak Orange”
I just had a look on their site to see the current bikes and was quite surprised! They have (logically) hugely reduced the range, they used to make so many super similar bikes but now they just have the 7 & 6 in Stage (full 29) and Switch (mullet) versions. Nothing less than 150mm!
The new versions make sense functionally - the kinked downtube allows a better shock position making them a bit more progressive, the box section will stiffen them around the BB, there’s a chance of fitting a bottle and there’s a small filing cabinet to fit owt in.
They don’t look half as nice though!
The one change I would really welcome would be a way of converting the Switch 6 between mullet and full 29.
I currently have a Stage 6 Evo and Switch 6 (because bargains) and I'm pretty sure the Switch will be the one I keep, but I've had a different bike that could convert in a few mins with just a 4mm allen key - and it was super-useful.
The one change I would really welcome would be a way of converting the Switch 6 between mullet and full 29.
I currently have a Stage 6 Evo and Switch 6 (because bargains) and I'm pretty sure the Switch will be the one I keep, but I've had a different bike that could convert in a few mins with just a 4mm allen key - and it was super-useful.
There must be some kind of dropout flip chip thing they could build in to flip between mullet and 29 and not throw the BB/HA/ST angles all out... Other manufacturers seem to be able to do it (albeit not on single pivot bikes usually??)
My Bird had a flip chip on the chainstays which was intended as a high-low adjustment, but worked well enough for mulleting.
Bit compromised for pedaling/climbing but great for descending, just like having a bike from a few years before when seat angles were slacker.
Orange might be able to do some kind of replaceable dropout set-up, or maybe not - I'm just saying what I want, not what's possible 😆
“I feel like that generation of frames might be peak Orange”
I just had a look on their site to see the current bikes and was quite surprised! They have (logically) hugely reduced the range, they used to make so many super similar bikes but now they just have the 7 & 6 in Stage (full 29) and Switch (mullet) versions. Nothing less than 150mm!
The new website only came online yesterday so I don't think it's fully populated yet (dropping the Bosch e-bikes to keep Shimano?). Seems they listened to the website feedback though?
I think it's difficult to correct for mulleting when the swing-arm meets in front of the seat tube - normally you'd want to push the swing-arm further away (with a flip-chip that increases the i2i length of the shock) but that would make it collide with the seat tube. I think this is another reason why Horst-link 4-bars are becoming so ubiquitous.
Out of interest, and not because i'm about to order one, what size would suit someone 5'11?
Out of interest, and not because i'm about to order one, what size would suit someone 5'11?
How leggy/torso-y are you?
I'm 5ft 8in with along torso and medium is perfect for me, so I'd think large would be bob-on for you - unless you are particularly short of torso.
There's a "find your size" link on the listing. It's not entirely helpful...
I'm 5'10.5 and I'd think I'd rather have the medium but I do have long limbs.
There's a "find your size" link on the listing. It's not entirely helpful...
I'm 5'10.5 and I'd think I'd rather have the medium but I do have long limbs.
😀 that's brilliant!
If its any help, I'm 5'8" as well on a medium (my Five is also a medium and my Alpine is a small though!). Looks like in the website redesign they've dropped the really useful guide that simply showed suggested height ranges for each frame size. From what I can remember, I was sort of middle/upper end of a medium and having ridden large Orange full bouncers before, don't feel massively out of place on one. I'd suggest a) giving them a call as they're dead helpful and b) probably a large at 5'11".
hmm, i was very tempted... but no (usable) bottle bosses is a deal breaker.
hmm, i was very tempted... but no (usable) bottle bosses is a deal breaker.
Yeh, would have been nice but I always ride with a camelback or bum bag thing with a water bottle holder on it so no biggy. Of the options I was looking at, the loss of a useful bottle mount was less of an issue than having something with a bazillion bearings I'd need to look after 😀
Orange might be able to do some kind of replaceable dropout set-up, or maybe not - I'm just saying what I want, not what's possible 😆
They look absolutely ideal for a high/low dropout to me but the packaging is tricky and can get ugly, too. And those swingarm tip forgings are really nice and definitely made the bikes stiffer and lighter than the old style simple beams.
I <suspect> Orange got quite badly burned with that period where so many of the new design swingarms cracked at the dropout- that was a big flagship change when they went to the new style of swingarm and then they had very public problems with that join.
Which is all resolved now, and not directly connected but is the sort of thing that sticks in your head if you're thinking of adding extra complexity in the same place. And you definitely don't want to have similar failures in the future making people go "Oh all orange dropouts break", even when they're completely unconnected, that sort of shit sticks even when it's unfair.