After all if there’s no tourist attractions, pubs etc open, there’s not really a lot to do other than walking or cycling.
Car-touring, road-racing, public BBQs and picnicking/on the piss are the majority British Summer Games. Now we’re all unable to fly or ferry abroad then there’s a very high chance this ‘opportunity’ will be seen and treated as the Staycation of Staycations. The Year of the Uninvited? I really really hope not, for everyone‘s sake. Personally speaking it’s of great-concern as our remaining parents all live in rural (and currently low-risk) areas, even though they are Very High Risk individuals for not surviving infection. Unfortunately, where they live are both seasonal high-volume honeypots for holidaymakers. Anxiety is currently through the roof.
I feel sorry for the shop workers and fuel station workers in honey pot areas of the country who will be inundated with every version of COVID going
it’s basically how far can I go on a flapjack, gel and a bottle of water knowing that I can’t restock.
Get yourself a nice saddlebag for some sandwiches, pork pie and cake.
But tourists, families…? Those people who want to drive on, sit at a cafe and drive home again, hopefully not
Picnics?
Padley Gorge parking has been full the last couple of times I’ve been past.
Precisely the spot that came to mind.
I reckon it's going to be ugly around the honey pots.
I reckon it’s going to be ugly around the honey pots.
It creates a situation where locals from rural areas are put at increased risk as they simply continue take exercise from their doors, yet now into a circus. Time to stay in some more, while the ****ers who think that the last 6 weeks somehow equates to 6yrs/WW2-level deprivation and now their cup of entitlement runneth over.
Nice weather forecast for the weekend too...
I reckon it’s going to be ugly around the honey pots.
In no particular order for Peak District honey pot bingo madness in the coming days;
1. Yorkshire Bridge lay-by and A57 lay-by at Ladybower
2. Every parking space heading up to Fairholmes
3. Surprise View car park
4. Fox House car park and roadside
5. Burbage North
6. All the Stanage Car Parks (inc. Causeway)
7. Leadmill Bridge, Hathersage
8. Every parking space near Mam Tor.
Sure I’ve missed loads though.
I don't want to imagine the litter left across the countryside this coming weekend. You know the self-entitled will be out in force, leaving their crap behind.
In no particular order for Peak District honey pot bingo madness in the coming days;
Goyt Valley.
There's already been a significant increase in cars parked randomly up along verges, in laybys and so on. Massive groups of walkers all miraculously meeting up at the same time, what are the chances?!
I may have Lolled at Norwich vs Ipswich 😀
Anyway, those of us who were taking a cautious but pragmatic approach will carry on doing so until we see how the relaxation pans out, and in the meantime there's nothing much you can do about other people being arseholes, whether it's in this scenario or any other: arseholes will always be arseholes and they won't change. The best you can do is to not vote them back in.
As an Ipswich fan, I've shared the football gag 😄😄
Here we go! Malvern hills carparks to reopen from 13th. Anybody else seeing things opening up?
Malvern is reasonably local to us but the new guidelines won't change our plans, stay at home and only exercise locally.
I've already been getting messages asking to come on rides round FOD etc. How long exactly before we see a resurgence in cases?
It was a few days betwwen easing lock down and an increase in cases in Germany. And as we pride ourselves on beating the Germans, I'd say less than that.
On a related note, Gisburn Forest MTB have posted up to say that all their car parks are CLOSED and basically please stay the **** at home. There was a further list of Forestry England car parks closed and it included Whinlatter plus everything in Grizedale and Kielder Forests.
There was a further line begging people not to park in laybys.
If only the rest of the UK were as amazing as here.
Everyone else are arseholes though hey.
Nothing like a bit of stw superiority
Chicksands open from tomorrow. Limit of 90 people on site per session. Seems quite a high quota to me?
How ;long before the police are patrolling the welsh and scottish borders? Driving any non essential journey is still banned here so anyone driving u from England to ride will be breaking the law. ( or just the guidence?)
I really see this one escalating badly.
Anyone contemplated a bivvy yet, then?
Anyone contemplated a bivvy yet, then?
How would that be different from camping, which is still not allowed?
This is theoretical as rules haven't really changed in Scotland yet so still riding from the door.
Should the fact that I am as sure as I can be that my family and I have had the virus over a month ago (without a confirmatory test) make any difference as to where my son and I choose to ride?
Or is the main priority not getting injured?
Remember that you can still transfer the virus by touch.
What if it turns out any immunity is short-lived?
And yes, worth thinking about risks at the mo IMO, you don't want to have to be carried off a mountain with a broken collarbone.
The first ride of the spring/summer for me this eve, can't wait.
Yorkshire Dales park authority are re-opening their carparks to try to avoid issues with cars parked in village centre's and laybys,Leeds Council are also re-opening their carparks and gardens
https://www.forestryengland.uk/dalby-forest
Dalby forest carparks open from today
What if it turns out any immunity is short-lived?
We lock down the vulnerable while the rest of us just get on with it, accept life has some risk attached and build herd immunity. But that belongs in another forum.
We lock down the vulnerable while the rest of us just get on with it
Me and the wife are both in the vulnerable group - guess you're saying I can't go on that ride tonight then!
So long as you understand and accept the possible consequences of your actions I think you should be allowed to do whatever you like.
So long as you understand and accept the possible consequences of your actions I think you should be allowed to do whatever you like.
Trouble is, people are generally really bad at this. Risks either get over estimated or under estimated. The human brain is very binary, either it's going to kill us, or it's only ever going to happen to other people.
"I won't ride on the roads it's too dangerous" cue 99.something% of cycle commuters and club roadies pointing out that they've never had an accident
"I'l just go out and take it steady on the trails" cue me saying I've broken my arm three times, once riding downhill, the second and third on a fire road and at very low speed at a junction on the road!
I do, but if the guidance was 'we lock down the vulnerable while the rest of us just get on with it' my actions would be different.
So long as you understand and accept the possible consequences of your actions I think you should be allowed to do whatever you like.
Hundreds of thousands dead - thats the price of herd immunity and / or allowing everyone out of lockdown too soon.
We lock down the vulnerable while the rest of us just get on with it, accept life has some risk attached and build herd immunity.
It has killed people who were not considered vulnerable. Do you want to take that risk for yourself or risk passing it on to someone not in a vulnerable group who it might kill?
So long as you understand and accept the possible consequences of your actions I think you should be allowed to do whatever you like.
This only works for personal consequences not for ones that have an impact on others.
TNIS, I agree completely, but my reply was aimed specifically at Jamze in this context: he should be allowed to go out and exercise even though he states he's in the vulnerable category, so long as he appreciates the risks attached. What I left unsaid, but which can be inferred, is that he should also not expect the vast majority of healthy people for whom the virus poses minimal risk to be restricted indefinitely so he can pursue his hobbies. Accept the risk, or self isolate.
I'm a postman, about to start my shift. I'm not coming at this from a theoretical standpoint, typing in my underpants at home. As a society, we're just going to have to nut up and get on with this. Even with the virus at large, life's a lot safer than it was for my grandparents' generation. Again - it's that risk perception thing.
This:
We lock down the vulnerable while the rest of us just get on with it, accept life has some risk attached and build herd immunity.
Is not an answer to this:
What if it turns out any immunity is short-lived?
Because if immunity is only short lived then we will have perpetual cycles of infection like a seasonal flu but worse.
As a society, we’re just going to have to nut up and get on with this
Sounds a bit like "perhaps you could take it on the chin, take it all in one go and allow the disease, as it were, to move through the population" It didn't really work out like that did it?
. Even with the virus at large, life’s a lot safer than it was for my grandparents’ generation. Again – it’s that risk perception thing.
Balderdash. I think you fail to understand the basics of this. Its highly infectious, there is no real treatment, it kills significant numbers of people. "Just get on with life" means hundreds of thousands to die in this country. We can already see this in the US - states resisting any lockdown have rising infection rates. States that went into lockdown have plateaued.
It will make the spanish flu epidemic look like nothing.
Even with the virus at large, life’s a lot safer than it was for my grandparents’ generation.
Even if that's true things being worse 2 generations ago isn't really a great basis for policy making today.
Look at it this way, what other things should we tolerate a bit of today because they were worse 2 generations ago? Should we tolerate a bit of sexism because your granny put up with worse?
and for what it's worth, I am sitting at home in my underpants. 🙂
* strangest boner *
Aren't we a bit off topic ? most of this should be on the other thread
Regarding the gno gnar (and the gnot far), this just plopped onto my FB feed from Coniston Mountain Rescue Team. (my bolds here on specific C-19 risks and knock-ons):
Hello All,
Hopefully you’re all managing to stay safe and healthy through the Covid-19 pandemic.
We know that many of you will be desperate to get back on the fells and trails, and to get your Lake District “fix”. The relaxation of the Coronavirus lockdown may have been music to your ears, when the Prime Minister stated that it is now Ok to drive any distance to take your exercise. This came as a total surprise to us as a Mountain Rescue Team (MRT), Cumbria Police, Cumbria Tourist Board, The Lake District National Park and also The National Trust. Simply, the Lake District is NOT ready for a large influx of visitors.The hospitality sector remains closed, some car parks may be re-opening, along with some toilet facilities, but this is an enforced opening due to this announcement to cater for those that do decide to come, rather than an invitation.
Why are we, Coniston Mountain Rescue Team, so concerned about the relaxation of the travel to exercise rules? Maybe if we talk you through what happens it may explain why we’re worried.
Firstly, we are all volunteers – most of us have day jobs from which we take time off to deal with incidents during work hours, or time out of the rest of our lives “out of hours”, and secondly most of us have families who we need to protect.
How a rescue might play out during the Covid-19 pandemic:-
1. Paul and Sarah came up from Preston, and have summited the Old Man of Coniston, had their lunch and set off down towards Goats Water.2. Paul slips and hears a crack from his left ankle, Sarah tries to help, but Paul can’t put weight on his ankle which is at a funny angle anyway. Paul is 15 stone and 6ft 2 tall. Sarah is fit but no way could she help Paul back down.
3. Sarah dials 999, remembers to ask for Police and then Mountain Rescue, the operator takes the details and asks a lot of questions to assess the Covid-19 risk posed by both Paul & Sarah to the MRT, and subsequently to Ambulance and medical staff that will need to treat Paul.
4. In the meantime, four groups of people come by, they all say they’d love to help but haven’t got any Personal Protective Equipment (PPE) and must socially distance themselves by at least 2 metres.
5. The Police alert Coniston MRT to the incident via SARCALL, and the Duty Team Leader (TL) calls Sarah, having sent her a link by text for her to click on to confirm their exact position, and asks more questions, to work out the resources needed.
6. The TL then calls other members of the Leader Group to discuss the requirements and decides a 10 member group is required on the hill, and alerts the Team to that requirement.
7. The Team numbers are depleted anyway, we have a number of people who contribute massively to the Team generally but are over 70 years old, i.e. higher risk group, we have people who may be shielding a family member, or at risk themselves due to underlying medical conditions that normally wouldn’t be an issue. So a team of 10 assemble at the MRT base, plus someone to run the base – this person is important as it helps with coordination of other services letting the hill party get on with the job.
8. All members are briefed regarding the incident, and check all are happy with the unknown invisible risk posed by the incident; the risk of walking up the fell is taken as read and a baseline anyway. All PPE is checked.
9. Team members climb aboard two of the Team’s three vehicles. Why only two when social distancing could be better in 3 vehicles? The need to decontaminate the vehicles on return probably outweighs the advantage of social distancing, and it leaves another vehicle able to respond to any other incidents.
10. Normally the Team would mobilise within 10-15 minutes of this type of call, due to all the pre-checks, personnel checks etc., time elapsed thus far is 45 minutes.
11. The vehicles arrive at the road head, one last check on PPE and kit for the incident, including radios, and the Team sets off for the casualty site. Walking time to site is around 45-60 minutes.
12. The Team can’t call on the Air Ambulance for support as they're off-line for this type of incident due to staff being redeployed elsewhere in the NHS or due to other priorities and risk factors so cannot support. Similar with Coastguard Helicopters...
13. On site, one casualty carer and one assistant will approach the casualty with as much PPE on as possible, and may well apply PPE to the patient before carrying out a full primary survey, in this case that’s simple, Paul’s ankle is (probably) broken, and there are no other underlying medical factors like a head injury, multiple other injuries or catastrophic bleeding.
14. The casualty carer and helper would normally give Paul some Entonox (pain killing gas) while they straighten his ankle to ensure a pulse at the foot and also maybe a pain killing injection. The injection takes 15 mins or so to work, but Entonox is not given because of the potential risk of contamination. However, the foot needs straightening ASAP to restore the pulse in Paul’s foot. Paul screams as the casualty carer re-aligns the foot (it’s called reducing the injury) to restore circulation and allow for splinting.
15. Paul’s ankle is splinted and although he’s still in pain, it’s less than it was and the painkilling injection is starting to take effect. Time elapsed since Paul fell is now 2 hours 15 mins.
16. The Team moves in and helps Paul on to the stretcher, the stretcher is made of stainless steel and heavy, it is about 2.5 metres long and maybe 0.6 metre wide, usually it takes 8 people to carry a loaded stretcher, they cannot socially distance.
17. The Team carries Paul down to the Walna Scar road, where they’ve asked a North West Ambulance Service land ambulance to meet them to reduce potential contamination at base. The carry down has taken 2 hours, so now it’s 4 hrs 15 since Paul fell. Paul is transferred to the Ambulance and taken to Furness General Hospital. Sarah can’t drive, but can’t go in the Ambulance either. How can the Team get Sarah re-united with Paul and then how do they both get home to Preston when Paul is fixed? What happens to their car? In normal circumstances we can fix these issues, not so easy in the Covid-19 pandemic.
18. The Team returns to base and starts to decontaminate the stretcher, the vehicles, the non-disposable medical equipment, the splint and themselves. Jackets and other clothing are all bagged ready to go in their washing machines when they get home, which takes a further 1 hour 15 minutes. Total time elapsed 5hrs 30 minutes. Total man hours 10 folk on the hill plus 1 running base = 60.5 man hours.
19. Paul is admitted to Furness General Hospital after a wait of 1 hour at A&E. He is taken to cubicles and X Rayed to understand his ankle injury better. He is also routinely tested for Covid-19. Paul’s ankle needs an operation to pin it as the break is a bad one.
20. Paul’s Covid-19 test comes back positive. Oh dear! Paul is asymptomatic, he has the virus but is either naturally immune or has not yet developed symptoms. The message is passed back to Coniston MRT, who then have to check the records of those on the incident. Every one of them, the ten people on the incident and the base controller, must now self isolate and so must their families, so now we have maybe 35 people all having to self-isolate. Plus possibly the Ambulance crew and their families.
21. Three days later Eric from Essex decides he wants to come to Coniston to do the 7 Wainwrights in the Coniston Fells. He sets off, and completes Dow Crag, the Old Man, Brim Fell along to Swirl How and Great Carrs and across to Grey Friar, then on up to Wetherlam. Eric puts his foot down on a rock, the rock moves and Eric is in a heap on the floor, his foot is at a funny angle...he gets his phone out and dials for Mountain Rescue... but there are only three people available from the Coniston Team now, so the decision needs to be taken by the Coniston MRT duty leader which Team to call to support, Neighbouring Teams are Langdale-Ambleside and Duddon & Furness MRT’s.
The issue is, they’re in the same situation as Coniston with people self-isolating due to potential contamination, or their members are keyworkers in the NHS and can’t deploy on MRT incidents.
So – we’re asking you to think twice, even three times before you embark upon travelling to the Lake District for your exercise. The risk, however small, is real, and I write this as a MRT member for over 30 years with probably around 1000 incidents under my belt, I know, accidents happen.
TNIS, I agree completely, but my reply was aimed specifically at Jamze in this context: he should be allowed to go out and exercise even though he states he’s in the vulnerable category, so long as he appreciates the risks attached. What I left unsaid, but which can be inferred, is that he should also not expect the vast majority of healthy people for whom the virus poses minimal risk to be restricted indefinitely so he can pursue his hobbies. Accept the risk, or self isolate.
Agreed. I'm not asking for anything to be indefinite. But my analysis of the risk does assume 'don't be a dick' is still being followed by the majority, rather than 'just get on with it'.
I must admit, I'm getting a bit fed up with Mountain Rescue, which is a shame as I've always supported them in the past.
I have no problem with them concluding that it's not safe for their volunteers to carry out rescues at the current time. By all means put out a statement to the effect that there will be no mountain rescue cover. But don't try to act as gatekeepers to the hills. It not what they were set up for. In fact, it seems to be the opposite.
I get that people are nervous and that's understandable. But some of it does seem to be over the top. Every time I get in my car I put myself at risk. I also put other young healthy people at risk. That's life. We don't know what the infection fatality rate for this disease is yet. We don't know what the risk of infection is in different environments. In fact there is so much we don't know. Yes, these changes may have a negative effect, but they may not. We'll just have to wait and see and probably have to wait quite a while.
Sorry, I dare say a lot of that is off topic, so I'll shut up now.
Just back from my ride. Didn't seem any busier than usual. The car parks were still shut. In town I did see a car with two bike on the roof heading somewhere so someone was making the most of the relaxation.
I'm staying local for a bit longer. Partly because most of places I want to go are in Wales, partly the lack of facilities (one of the joys of going further afield is finding a nice pub or cafe)
Sorry, I dare say a lot of that is off topic, so I’ll shut up now.
It's not so much off topic as a complete misinterpretation of what the MRTs are saying.
