1.7 Are there restrictions on how far I can travel for my exercise or outdoor activity?
No. You can travel to outdoor open space irrespective of distance. You shouldn’t travel with someone from outside your household unless you can practise social distancing - for example by cycling. Leaving your home - the place you live - to stay at another home is not allowed.
So looks like you can cycle with one other person now.
Well that’s pretty clear to me.
now.
But you can’t drive with the person not from your household, obvs.
Unless they're on the roof.
This thread does illustrate the problems the government will face getting out of his mess. A scared/nervous population is quite useful when you are trying to get people to voluntarily lockddown, but a pain when you want to tempt them back out.
I am depressed by the lack of people prepared to question anything though. Everyone now seems to be obsessed with the R number, for example, but hardly anybody seems to be asking whether it is actually a useful number. Can it be measured accurately (on a region, by region level) in the middle of an epidemic? If not, how accurate are the estimates? Are we basing public policy on guesses?
Mind you, everyone seemed happy to accept going into lockdown (with all the consequences) based on predictions that hadn't even been peer reviewed let alone replicated. Still, it's OK, cos we're following the science 🙂
roverpig
SubscriberI am depressed by the lack of people prepared to question anything though. Everyone now seems to be obsessed with the R number, for example, but hardly anybody seems to be asking whether it is actually a useful number. Can it be measured accurately (on a region, by region level) in the middle of an epidemic? If not, how accurate are the estimates? Are we basing public policy on guesses?
It is very useful, in fact, it's pretty much essential. The fact that we'll never actually know what it is doesn't change that. Yes it's always the best guess we can make, and that's all it can be, and that still is valuable and essential.
A pretty good way to look at it is that we don't need to know what it is- but we need to know if it's above or below one, and we need to know if it's much more above or below one. Where we needed it to be before making any changes was much below one, and it wasn't. Now we can be confident it's either above or much above one.
Well that’s pretty clear to me.
Give it a while for others to interpret
The whole issue is that it should never have been called a lockdown. It never was
Thank **** for that, I thought I was the only one that thought that!!
On the whole driving to leisure spots thing. Are car parks open now?
I'm assuming some car parks will reopen after the guidance comes into affect on Wednesday. Probably up to land owner / counncil though.
@Northwind I agree that it would be a great number to know. What I don’t understand is how you can get a decent estimate of R when we don’t have validated serological tests and there is so much we don’t know (percentage of asymptomatic cases, whether they can transmit it, inside vs outside etc).
I don’t know whether the current guidance is correct or not, but I’m not sure anyone does.
roverpig
Subscriber@Northwind I agree that it would be a great number to know. What I don’t understand is how you can get a decent estimate of R when we don’t have validated serological tests and there is so much we don’t know (percentage of asymptomatic cases, whether they can transmit it, inside vs outside etc).
New cases is probably the best indicator. (because it's a rate of change indicator rather than a total volume indicator, it doesn't really matter if it captures asymtomatics etc, as long as it's consistent.
We've had between 4000 and 6000 new cases per day since early April, so that in isolation R of 1-ish. Take into account improved testing and rates of diagnosis and actually we'll be below 1, and we could analyse the test rates and methodology to see trends if our testing wasn't so dysfunctional, but instead we can only say "it's somewhere below, but not massively below 1".
We can very confortably say it's not massively below 1, which is where it has to be. What's harder, is knowing when it does reach that point, which is problematic because you want to act as soon as you can when it does. But knowing when you're not there yet is as important, because it tells us there's more to do before we even think about doing anything that'll increase rates.
Oops.
The whole issue is that it should never have been called a lockdown. It never was
Thank **** for that, I thought I was the only one that thought that!!
We need some sort of (socially distanced) support group.
The car park question is interesting. If you open them up, there's greater chance of big groups congregating in breach of the guidelines, either deliberately or just accidentally by weight of numbers. If you don't open them, you have illegal and potentially dangerous parking, and a loss of parking revenue.
Personally, I'm not sure opening up honeypot car parks right now would be supportive of the overall "be careful with social distancing" message. I'm assuming the FC wouldn't open trail centre car parks until they were happy for people to ride the more "gnar" bits, with all the emergency services access potentially required if there's an increase in crashes
I’m assuming some car parks will reopen after the guidance comes into affect on Wednesday. Probably up to land owner / counncil though.
Forestry England have been saying still don't drive so assume their related car parks shut. Many or most trail centres staying shut.
Peaslake telling non locals to stay away still. Though their car parks have been mostly open anyway, just not the big van park (sorry Walking Bottom).
The tactics haven't really changed. It's a special blend of herd immunity and darwinism. The idea is that idiots mingle and catch Covid, some die and some don't, then herd immunity protects everyone else who kept away from each other a bit longer. The unfortunate casualties in all this will be those on the frontline or in manual jobs (i.e. not the rich) who will have to mingle or lose their jobs.
If you communicated to the public that you were looking for volunteers to mingle and potentially catch it on behalf of the rest of the population, then everyone would stay in.
If we’re carrying out four times as many tests per day but the number of new infections per day is roughly constant can we really say that R is close to 1?
Trail centres are unlikely to re-open yet IMO.
They tend to attract a good number of less-experienced riders, leading to the inevitable casualties that places like Llandegla and Swinley are known for.
I imagine lots of landowners are having discussuions right now about whether or not to re-open car parks.
There's a main thread other there ------> for the general Covid theorising anyway.
Trail centres are unlikely to re-open yet IMO.
Trail centres and National Parks have been quite vocal on social media in response to what I suspect will be a massive influx of ****wits who all think "wahey, end of lockdown, happy Monday, off to ride/walk in [insert honeypot area of choice]"
This is then going to butt up against their policy of keeping car parks closed vs the ****wits who are now parking all over verges, in residential streets, blocking laybys and access and then wondering why they're being fined.
Let's see some parking fines issued then to deter the idiots.
Derbyshire have been quite proactive even down here outside the Peak. Last weekend they had a team at Elvaston Castle not only stopping people parking on the roadside, but also with a speed camera* to catch those who sped up to pretend that wasn't why they were driving that way.
*18.6mph he shouted at me as I went past. It was a slow morning.
This is then going to butt up against their policy of keeping car parks closed vs the **** who are now parking all over verges, in residential streets, blocking laybys and access and then wondering why they’re being fined.
Yep. The opportunity to gravitate to extremes will make things turn a bit nasty in some places methinks.
A combination of blase townie parking on a verge on a blind corner with his <insert stereotypical brand name here> gnarpoon on top of his company Audi meeting pitchfork-wielding local NIMBY will make the headlines at some point.
I will be staying local for the time being.
I will be staying local for the time being.
Seems the easiest, safest and dullest option for me
Yeah I can see that angling is a very low-risk activity that a significant proportion of the population enjoy so why not? It’ll get people out of their houses being active.
I’m sure if some people saw me inching my bike up a gentle incline they might not think it wasn’t actually exercise
Indeed, it’s best not to judge others’ choice of exercise lest we are told we must all become joggers.
The reason to avoid the area is because of your social responsibility to limit the spread as much as is possible.
The reported Tweet that I read from South Lakes Police was:
“Before considering travelling to #Cumbria #LakeDistrict please grab a brew, examine this map, and take a long hard look at your own conscience. We urge you to use common sense and to continue to exercise close to your own home. We need to break the cycle of infection #lockdown.”
which I read as saying very clearly, don't bring the virus into an area that already has high infection rates, not "stay away or you will die".
Yeah I can see that angling is a very low-risk activity that a significant proportion of the population enjoy so why not? It’ll get people out of their houses being active.
Active? Anglers? We've obviously been watching different anglers. The ones I've seen sit on a river bank unmoving for hours except to get another can of beer out the cooler.
The problem with angling on towpaths is it severely restricts what is already a narrow pathway and makes social distancing almost impossible. Although I appreciate that the overall risk outdoors seems pretty minimal, it does seem somewhat selfish to sit on a towpath effectively "blocking" it to everyone passing.
I haven't driven to ride since this kicked off. Even when it was kind-of allowed, I felt it'd be a bit sneaky (especially after I'd written a public statement encouraging other MTBers not to look for loopholes).
Now I'll probably drive to ride a little further afield sometimes, but only where I know parking won't be an issue.
1.7 Are there restrictions on how far I can travel for my exercise or outdoor activity?
No. You can travel to outdoor open space irrespective of distance.
So I can now drive to a beach to surf, even though that would be a 400+ mile round trip, as long as I go by myself?
I'm not going to, as that would be breaking rule number 1.
So I can now drive to a beach to surf, even though that would be a 400+ mile round trip, as long as I go by myself?
Provided that you use gloves at the petrol station and pay-at-pump then you can drive as far as you like without breaking rule #1 in my opinion. Greta Thunberg may not be impressed but that's a separate discussion entirely.
So I can now drive to a beach to surf, even though that would be a 400+ mile round trip, as long as I go by myself?
I’m not going to, as that would be breaking rule number 1.
Whereas the 60 mile round trip for me I think is perfectly justifiable. I tend to surf pretty early or pretty late so expect it to still be very quiet.
And I also expect a prolonged flat spell starting on Wednesday morning.
North Westerly wind so might actually be great conditions.
I see the chief executive of the Lake District National Park has released a statement to the effect of 'please don't come here right now, we're not ready for that.'
The reason to avoid the area is because of your social responsibility to limit the spread as much as is possible.
The reported Tweet that I read from South Lakes Police was:
“Before considering travelling to #Cumbria #LakeDistrict please grab a brew, examine this map, and take a long hard look at your own conscience. We urge you to use common sense and to continue to exercise close to your own home. We need to break the cycle of infection #lockdown.”
which I read as saying very clearly, don’t bring the virus into an area that already has high infection rates, not “stay away or you will die”.
Problem is Gov guidance implies I could drive to Lakes from Somerset - it would be within new guidelines. I feel sorry for the police - how on earth can they work with this??
I see the chief executive of the Lake District National Park has released a statement to the effect of ‘please don’t come here right now, we’re not ready for that.’
Peak District has put out something similar but marginally less draconian, I think they've sort of accepted that people will now be driving into it. They have however reminded people that no cafes, pubs etc are open - presumably hoping that'll keep some people away.
Now there’s tourists to monetize again I’m sure that party line will fracture this week.
So basically I can drive 20 minutes to the beach with my kayak and go for a paddle....and take my fishing rod...without breaking any written or unwritten rules?
Happy days.
Peak District has put out something similar but marginally less draconian
I predict ugly scenes, it's already pretty ugly on social media. If major organisations in rural areas feel the need to release statements saying we're not ready for this then surely the time was not right for such wide reaching relaxation?
There is the chance that it'll be reasonably self regulating. After all if there's no tourist attractions, pubs etc open, there's not really a lot to do other than walking or cycling. That's going to be dependent on how much food and drink you can carry - to be honest that's been the deciding factor in how long I ride for, it's basically how far can I go on a flapjack, gel and a bottle of water knowing that I can't restock.
There's a chance people will start rock climbing, paragliding again I suppose which again is more traffic into the area, more parking issues. But tourists, families...? Those people who want to drive on, sit at a cafe and drive home again, hopefully not. Guess we'll find out this weekend.
There is the chance that it’ll be reasonably self regulating. After all if there’s no tourist attractions, pubs etc open, there’s not really a lot to do other than walking or cycling. That’s going to be dependent on how much food and drink you can carry – to be honest that’s been the deciding factor in how long I ride for, it’s basically how far can I go on a flapjack, gel and a bottle of water knowing that I can’t restock.
I don't see how it will be self regulating. It's not very hard for people to lug a coolbox 100m from their car. Cue haphazard parking along the verges near popular stopping places and crowds picnicking within easy walking distance of the the road.
Even on the bike you can easily carry a day of food and water.
There’s a chance people will start rock climbing
This is a definite and you can probably say the same for every activity not explicitly excluded.
Every layby occupied by feral pikey families having BBQs; nothing water cannon and a bit of tear gas couldn't sort out. I've suggested to a mate in Keswick he organise the construction of a large, welcoming Wicker Man in Hope Park.
You do have to wonder though... Our local spots are forestry and they have a post saying 'were coming up with a plan to re-open' following the rule change. You have to wonder what they've been up to for the last 2 months, did they think they were staying closed forever? Surely 2 months is enough time to have this worked out? Or AIBU?
@jam bo / @Mister_P
Whereas I live a 10 minute jog from a beach but cannot surf cos the Welsh Govt deem it a high risk activity 😢😢
I know Welsh govt have said you can't drive from England to Wales for exercise- wonder if I can go the other way 😂
The Peak car parks have had cars in them (or parked along the verge outside if closed) for weeks now. I think there was only a quiet couple of weeks then people continued to drive. Padley Gorge parking has been full the last couple of times I’ve been past.
I’m expecting the ice cream van next time.
I'll be out on my bike in the hills around Hayfield /kinder with a mate on wednesday.
I don't live far away, but I'd still need to drive a short distance.
I have just been doing road rides from the door on my own up to this point.
Looking forward to it. With lockdown combined with loads of free time due to cv19 related redundancy My bike has never been in such good condition apart from when it was brand new.
If the Peak Park keep the toilets closed, it will be unpleasant.....
Isn’t this another case or simply “don’t be a dick”?
Throw the bike in the car for an hour to drive somewhere quiet, yeah, why not.
Throw the bike in the car and drive for 4 hours to a busy spot, no.
Can I meet my Dad in the park for 20 mins for a chat? Yep.
Should I spend an hour or 2 running round the park with a fella from the running club, nah.
And yes, others may not take the same approach, but we can only control what we do. So don’t push your luck, don’t try to find loopholes, and don’t be a dick.
