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There are just too many of us doing stuff that wouldn't be a problem if it wasn't for the fact that there are too many of us.
We need to reduce that number, a cull perhaps. Weed out the reckless idiots in the population.
I’m disturbed by people playing music on the trails as much as the next man, but I’m not sure I’d move to Idaho to get away from it…
I spent a year in Idaho, it's a lovely place with best potatoes known to man. And I include Ireland in that statement.
I don't know, I was running under the assumption that you would be disturbing the deeper stuff and thus churning more of it up rather than letting it settle and thus taking longer to recover. It's a fair point and you may well be right though.
The article author looks at mountain biking in a very selective way from what I read. He’s picking on what he sees as “less knowledgeable” riders accessing “his environment” and doing it “wrong”, basically.
It wouldn’t be nice for him to run into another version of himself in those environments I reckon.
I don't know about that, he makes a very good point:
We are failing.
Failing to educate new riders on etiquette.
Failing to criticize the actions of fellow riders.
Failing to listen when they criticize us.
I've highlighted the last part as that's the most relevant here I think. How often do you see threads on here where somebody calls someone out, legitimately, and rather than accepting challenge it turns into fingers in ears screaming match? Remember when you couldn't say anything about log burners because by jove they are brilliant for the environment, until of course the whole thing about particulates in towns became a hot topic? And how often does someone get utterly torn to shreds by a baying mob because they said something off colour? It's the failure to properly give and accept challenge that is the problem here and I don't think our demographic is wildly different to elsewhere.
Essay points:
I regret that our sport hit the mainstream doing 100 mph and totally unprepared for the havoc that was about to be wrought. That our trails are being flooded by people who don’t understand what it took to get said trails, nor what it takes to keep them, nor do they seem to care.
Maybe they do care but are just too proud, stubborn or arrogant to accept that they may just be in the wrong.
Our trails are being systematically shredded—yes, by skidding endurbros, straightlining shuttle monkeys, and shortsighted stravassholes. And by an industry that “sells” the sport largely by glorifying the above abusers. But also by you, and by me, by remaining complicit in the shadows and not saying “enough.”
All points already made. But I think Burke nailed it better:
Whilst men are linked together, they easily and speedily communicate the alarm of any evil design. They are enabled to fathom it with common counsel, and to oppose it with united strength. Whereas, when they lie dispersed, without concert, order, or discipline, communication is uncertain, counsel difficult, and resistance impracticable. Where men are not acquainted with each other’s principles, nor experienced in each other’s talents, nor at all practised in their mutual habitudes and dispositions by joint efforts in business; no personal confidence, no friendship, no common interest, subsisting among them; it is evidently impossible that they can act a public part with uniformity, perseverance, or efficacy. In a connection, the most inconsiderable man, by adding to the weight of the whole, has his value, and his use; out of it, the greatest talents are wholly unserviceable to the public. No man, who is not inflamed by vain-glory into enthusiasm, can flatter himself that his single, unsupported, desultory, unsystematic endeavours, are of power to defeat the subtle designs and united cabals of ambitious citizens. When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.
Now I'm obviously not suggesting that this is literally evil but if you just change that to bad or misguided behaviour then I'm hard pressed to see why the argument is any different.
So how do we challenge? Clearly just heckling from the sidelines isn't going to do anything at the individual level, that just gets peoples backs up, gets them defensive and you've achieved nothing. In many ways we should just give them our knowledge, help them understand how and why and welcome them rather than standing on the sidelines like playground monitors. But at the higher level we need to be calling out the people being sponsored and sponsors that encourage bad behaviours. Rad crew leave trails an utter tip? Call them out. Vandalise a sensitive area for the likes? Call them out. As soon as it starts hitting revenue or such they are quick to change.
“And how often does someone get utterly torn to shreds by a baying mob because they said something off colour? It’s the failure to properly give and accept challenge that is the problem here and I don’t think our demographic is wildly different to elsewhere.”
This isn’t a MTBing problem. This is a problem across the whole of social media (which includes forums). Human brains, culture and etiquette are at best poorly compatible with social media based interaction.
This isn’t a MTBing problem. This is a problem across the whole of social media (which includes forums). Human brains, culture and etiquette are at best poorly compatible with social media based interaction.
Oh I know, I'm not suggesting it's something unique to us. So much nuance gets lost in the text.
I don’t know, I was running under the assumption that you would be disturbing the deeper stuff and thus churning more of it up rather than letting it settle and thus taking longer to recover. It’s a fair point and you may well be right though.
In reality it probably varies, but we all bring our prejudices and respective axes to grind to debates like this. That's not a swipe at you BTW, I'm just as guilty.
My current pet peeve is all the YouTube channels springing up showing off cheeky trails, and being spammed all over MTB groups on FB. Maybe I'm just trying to "gatekeep" trails, but maybe there is value in trail knowledge spreading by word of mouth - so that info like "dont ride this one in the wet" can be included.
Some in the MTB advocacy community get very vexed about unsacntioned trail digging, claiming it compromises their legitimate negotiations, while others have a bugbear about MTB marketing featuring "shredding".
In some cases I think there are achievable goals related to the complaints, but in others it feels more like people trying to turn back the tide.
This thread reminds me of a YT video I saw before Christmas.
I kind of hoped it was a piss-take but I’m not so sure...
“I’m re-branding Lickey Hills as Birmingham bike park.”
Do you own it Dave? No.
In that case, I’m renaming the kerb outside my house as Whistler Bike Park. I don’t own the kerb - but why let that stop me.
“Got some great downhills here! 30 second trails and then an easy push-up to the top”.
30 seconds! 30 seconds! Dave, that’s not a downhill. It might be twice the length of the sex with your other half, but it’s still not a downhill.
In reality it probably varies, but we all bring our prejudices and respective axes to grind to debates like this. That’s not a swipe at you BTW, I’m just as guilty.
Yup, you're right and happy to be set straight.
My current pet peeve is all the YouTube channels springing up showing off cheeky trails, and being spammed all over MTB groups on FB. Maybe I’m just trying to “gatekeep” trails, but maybe there is value in trail knowledge spreading by word of mouth – so that info like “dont ride this one in the wet” can be included.
Yep, Trailforks at least tries to get round that by requiring verification before they will publish anything. There are still things that don't need sharing though, the whole trail etiquette that was build around no dig no ride seems to have long been fobbed off (I've seen the usual "I'm too busy to help" stuff from folk that just expect to rock up to someone else's trails, batter them and sod off again without lifting a finger).
Culturally we could do well to take a leaf from BMX, they don't seem to have the same sense of entitlement that we do and seems far less marketing driven.
This is a very good listen regarding many of these points.
On this episode of the podcast Davi is joined by Sam Bowell. Sam is the manager of Rogate Bike Park and a founding member of the B1KE organisation which is made up of mountain bike sites across the South of England. During this episode we discuss what it takes to be a responsible mountain bike rider and user of outdoor spaces. From public liability, litter, land ownership through to how we interact with other outdoor enthusiasts. We hope this episode acts as a thought provoking episode and a framework for how the mountain bike community can have a positive impact on our environment.