[Closed] Interesting article from the states about a change in mtb culture

Interesting, I think the authour cannot see the positive in MTB's popularity. I think the article it is full of his own fallacies about what MTB culture is, I've been doing it since 1989 and my idea of MTB is not the same as his. Live n let live I say. It's all riding and everyone is having fun.

Meh. Old bloke doesn't like what he perceives as poor behaviour. Nothing new there.

Old man doesn't like all these kids going around having a good time with their music and their hair...

He lives a mile from his trails but criticises those who have to drive, a bit over-grumpy to be honest. In the 30 years I've been MTB'ing, I haven't noticed a massive increase in the amount of a'holes.

Ah, another purist.

Grumpy, but fair enough.
Same here. Having seen the 'support' some recently expressed for those carelessly shredding Scottish trails in a video, I got annoyed but held my tongue at the time. I teach mountain biking to large kids and adults regularly and always try to instil a sense of respect for the whole environment, including the trails themselves.
Damaging trails and scaring walkers is neither big nor clever. Every action has an impact; it is our choice to make this large or to make it small. As the code makes clear, access privileges bring with them responsibility.
Enduro activity has a place and that place is on the trails that are built for this purpose by those who understand the racer mind and accept that the trail is a temporary thing and will be trashed by sloppy, fast riding. Everywhere else, there is no place for ignorant, selfish, inconsiderate trail wrecking behaviour. Respecting the trail is as important as respecting every other aspect of the environment, including wildlife, access rights, pollution, litter etc....
Here's an example of impact. Anyone who has ridden in Torridon for a few years will have seen the gradually creeping damage to what were, just a few years ago, amazingly well preserved stalkers' paths from a previous century. Now, surfaces are gradually breaking up and smaller surface material broken up and washed away. Trail use requires respect and the more of us out there, the higher the potential impact of our collective actions. Don't hurt the dirt. Skids are for kids. But not in any group that I am with..

The sport is changing. With technology its become far less elitist. If you do want to be a grumpy old man about it you can still head off into the wilds and find a bit of peace. The only thing I don't like is that I've been riding for 30 years and all these johnny-come-lately types are way better than me.

Wait until he gets overtaken by a few ebikes 😆

Article is from 2018, hes probably exploded with rage by now

Wait until he gets overtaken by a few ebikes 😆

Oh, so this!

That article has been posted a couple of times on here already... can't recall the outcome each time but I think a few sort of agree with it, but pretty much everyone thought he was far too grumpy.

A case of anyone that doesn't do it like me is doing it wrong.
Plenty of them on here too.
It's all just pissing about on bikes.

I think the author is a grumpy old sod with an over-inflated sense of his own intelligence.

Yes there are negatives about the increasing popularity of MTB (e.g. all the bloody YouTube videos), but young people have always been lazy, selfish ****s. I know 'cos I used to be one.

Classic gatekeeping. There's room for everyone.

Except Ebikes, obviously.

As long as rule one is observed, then this;

It’s all just pissing about on bikes.

What a spectacularly self-obsessed sanctimonious judgemental whine that was. If there is a problem with MTBing I suspect he and others like him are complicit through their narrow-minded attitudes.

He should take up golf.

Got bored half way through.

Did he move on to trail dogs? They’re owned by the Devil’s apostles apparently

Dont see what problem people have with the article, he is saying he and we are not helping the next generation understand how to behave.

he is saying he and we are not helping the next generation understand how to behave.

I blame teachers, myself. 🙂

Seriously, though, at what point of modern history did the entirety of yoof listen to old farts moaning about their antisocial behaviour? The origins of MTBing was started in part by weed-smoking eejits racing downhill.

There is room for everyone. If I want solitude, no litter, and no Strava lines, I don't head for Gisburn then whine about the state of the place.

“Dont see what problem people have with the article, he is saying he and we are not helping the next generation understand how to behave.“

The entire implication is that the problem is that newer riders are not behaving like him. But having read the article I don’t think that riders behaving like him is a good thing.

“I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond words. When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly disrespectful and impatient of restraint.”

Hesiod, 8th Century BC

Who writes this drivel? And just as important who reads it....oh, hang on 😒

First paragraph confirmed moaning ****ism so stopped after that.

People who moan about not having a hobby to themselves "cause they're a purist, man" are dicks.

@highlandman - I agree with you. Do what you want if it doesn't cause conflict or more importantly irreparably damage the resource you're using. Mates of mine were stopped on a ride in Torridon by a local fella who had worked on the estate for decades. He explained the damage being caused to the trails/paths he'd helped keep in such good condition. It isn't bikes, it's the number of riders 'shredding' when the weather has left the trails in a delicate state and the crap riding technique (I paraphrase) of a significant number of recent riders - wannabe Steve Peats and Danny Macs I believe he called them. He clearly understood that environment and threats to it better than anyone (almost certainly...) here.
The same is true of several social media highlight trails near me in N Lakes - groups riding there, without care, because it's a must do trail. They whinge about and hate the uphill and wouldn't choose to be in the mountains otherwise.

I read so much bullshit and sensationalism in the 2nd and 3rd paragraphs that I lost interest.

I think the article confuses two things. People not respecting the environment is a valid concern (in most cases they don't know any better, even if they've been told, they don't have the background to understand). Having to share that environment with others is not valid; that's a different problem, potentially much harder to solve, as more people become interested in the outdoors.

Article was drivel. Got to the end of it without really knowing what it was he was whining about.

And since it seems to be the trend in this thread...
33 years since I took up MTB 😉

I had a scan of the other article linked in the main one. Safe to say I think the Adventure Journal is a bit 'red socked' for me.

The moment I opened the article and saw the name I knew what was coming. He's very well known at the MTBR forums, where he frequently comes up as a perfectly insufferable character.
The guy has a remarkable career, but instead of inspiring he prefers to non stop criticise everyone who's not in the exact same page as him and often with a good deal of nonsense.

I've seen this kind of thing at other sports. People need to realise that their niche within a sport is not that special, it's not a "way of life", there are more ways to enjoy things.

Thats a real old duffer moan about how its not like it used to be in his day, but he does make some perfectly valid points.

Its a shame his delivery denigrates them.

He's moved, to be alone - probably best place for him...

http://lacemine29.blogspot.com/2020/03/moving-on.html

I'm disturbed by people playing music on the trails as much as the next man, but I'm not sure I'd move to Idaho to get away from it...

“He’s moved, to be alone – probably best place for him…”

I will never cease to be amazed by the ability of Americans to complain about the number of people in the countryside in:

1. One of the least densely populated countries on the planet
2. A country that was stolen by their ancestors from its original inhabitants

@chiefgrooveguru , as much as I'm not a fan of the guy in question, I'll have to play a little devils advocate here:
- most countries were at some point conquered and occupied from outside forces. The "original inhabitants" argument is quite trickier than it seems. Not saying that conquering and occupying other territories is right or wrong, only that there's nothing exceptionally nefarious about the US compared to the rest of the world, including us here.

- many people in the US are particularly touchy about this trail use topic because of their access regulations. Many of their rules might sound weird for us here in the UK/EU but the fact is that certain situations can end up in denied access for certain areas there

I see the point about grumpy old men etc but it really doesn't have to be like this. I came to MTB from climbing which on the surface are similar 'extreme sports' but that's all they have in common. In the climbing world ethics and respect for the environment are ingrained in everyone, young or old. You don't see young turk climbers chipping holds or bolting grit, or dropping litter or acting like dicks at the crag. And when someone does step out of line they are quickly shut down by the wider community. We probably need a bit/lot of that in mountain biking.

Very whiny ... must be one of the regulars on here ....

You don’t see young turk climbers chipping holds or bolting grit, or dropping litter...

Everyone? I thought the Everest camps were pretty well known as rubbish tips? Google suggest Mont Blanc has had similar issues

I wheeled my bike out the back door of the shop

When did we become this crowd?

When shops sold loads of expensive kit to newbies and the newbies hit the trails.

I thought the Everest camps were pretty well known as rubbish tips?

But that's not climbing, that's mountaineering...

I think for most people, and especially teenagers, climbing has a higher barrier to entry compared to mountain biking. It's easier to ride whatever bike you have to hand in the local woods with your mates than it is to find a rock face and figure out how to get up it without dying. This leads to a stronger community that can show new initiates "the way". I've seen plenty of people being dicks at indoor bouldering walls, where that barrier is removed.

Reading the original article reminded me of 90s videos like Dirt, Mud Cows, Kranked etc. and how not that much has changed. If anything slids are less of a thing than they used to be.

But that’s not climbing, that’s mountaineering

Is there a difference - genuine question? At the end of the day it’s all ropes and mountains, ledges, etc to me, like dh, enduro, xc, bike packing etc are all mountain biking

In the climbing world ethics and respect for the environment are ingrained in everyone, young or old. You don’t see young turk climbers chipping holds or bolting grit, or dropping litter or acting like dicks at the crag. And when someone does step out of line they are quickly shut down by the wider community. We probably need a bit/lot of that in mountain biking.

Whilst there are issues within climbing, like litter at the crag (finger tape etc, so clearly climbers), human crap, chalk and tick lines everywhere and even music, I think that the smaller overall numbers lessen the impact.

I think that the key point you make is "when someone does step out of line they are quickly shut down by the wider community". In mountain biking I kind of get the feeling that the wider 'community' doesn't give a crap about much except their latest youtube upload or strava segment. Of course, mountain biking has moved on immensely from the rambling on two wheels of old, and that is inevitable, but it is certainly putting a lot more pressure on the environment than was present 20 years ago.

Some people and groups, such as Ride Sheffield, do fantastic work, but mountain biking lacks any cohesive body to both represent and influence riders in UK.

Climbing has issues too.

https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/crag_access/almscliff-727853

The issue seems to be more about what happens in honeypot areas rather than overall degeneracy. There are no more arseholes than there used to be, but if you have hundreds of people in one area, you've more chance of encountering one.

I think the article author used to live somewhere where he had the trails to himself, more or less, they became popular, and he didn't like it. Which is fine, he's moved somewhere quieter.

Is there a difference – genuine question? At the end of the day it’s all ropes and mountains, ledges, etc to me, like dh, enduro, xc, bike packing etc are all mountain biking

I'd say Everest mountaineering and bouldering are much further apart than DH and bikepacking, but it's a fair point. The Everest litter is caused by inaccessibility and costs, but it is still unforgivable.

First time I went to glentress in 1999 we drive down with music blaring, my mate pushed straight up the climb and had a couple of interesting cigarrette on the way up.

My early MTB heros- Palmer, missy giove...

Socrates (469–399 bc): ‘The children now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise.’

Not much has changed in 2500 years