Cycling on the road is dangerous because car drivers have an attitude that they are being held up and so they feel thay have a right to get past.
If the OP had been stuck behind a tractor would he have followed him to the petrol station and had a word - no because its another vehicle.
and Yunki grow up your comments are purile and stupid.
and Yunki grow up your comments are purile and stupid.
yar.com of course they are 🙄
to be honest sancho son, the viewpoint that I'm expressing is only the tip of the iceberg if you consider the attitudes of many who have no empathy with cyclists..
luckily, we minuscule, disparate, ragtaggle band of brothers (and sisters) on this forum love 'em
I think you are reading something into our future 'encounter' thats not there and will not happen.
I know these people it seems or at least some of them, only by sight i.e ''hello, hows it going type thing''. Even attended one of their birthday parties (friend of my wifes) but not sure he was actually one of the riders.
There will be no confrontation (how many more times to I have to say that). It will not turn into a mass brawl, I can gaurantee that. I dont do fighting but can stand up for myself verbally when required.
Also, for fear of people identifying the riders (that may make them a target) I see no benifit in going into detail regarding location. You will just have to take my word for it.
atlaz +1
I would never recommend using a left filter lane as a passing area - it's designed for traffic turning left, not for stopping in, nor for trying to rejoin an onwards road further along it. To be honest, if a group of cyclists did use a left filter lane as a passing place it could easily lead to an accident through misleading drivers about their intentions.
OP - it does seem a bit weird that you are now so obsessed by this that you're prepared to find out what pub this group purport to frequent, on which evening, and then go there and 'discuss' it with them.
Yunki, your comments may be representative of a lot of the population, I am surprised they are the views of a fellow cyclist.
Maybe we should all stop cycling on the road and put our mountain bikes in the back of the Audi and drive to the playground (Trail centre).
however that would be even more cars on the road and more congestion so more hold ups.
The basic principle is that you are not obliged to let cars pass when on a bike, and a car is required to wait until a suitable passing place is available, if that is in ten miles then thats the way it goes.
When following tractors etc, which are often slower than the average club cyclists do you all get in a froth in farming track world looking to find the pub these groups of farmers hang out in and explain that you were held up in your car on the way to play on your bike.
Not read all of this but 2 sides to this. Yes the group could have broken into smaller groups and waved the driver on but they were not obliged to do so. Would have been nice and may have placated OP.
Had this been a tractor with a hay trailer on the back or some horses it would have been doing similar speed and you would also not have been able to pass so the OP would have had no option other that to wait until clear to pass.
I have seen artics and tractors etc use pull ins to allow faster moving traffic to pass around some of the highland roads. It is much appreciated. However if they pull in I would not remonstrate with them as to why they did not do so sooner. In the scheme of things it does not take long to safely make any lost time.
Why the rush? Enjoy the scenery and live life a bit more I reckon.
The basic principle is that you are not obliged to let cars pass when on a bike
and the only argument from me (essentially) is that although you're not obliged to.. it's actually much nicer, to be nice..
I personally prefer to give out a positive view of cycling to the non-cycling majority..
is that pu[b]e[/b]rile..?
but this is getting me down.. it's the intentional obtuseness of some [i]internet roadies[/i] that I'm calling into question here..
so as an antedote, I'm off for a ride on the moor, which unfortunately will involve a short 2 or 3 mile road section at the start and finish..
Where I will be pulling over to let cars pass if I'm obstructing their passage (fnaar fnaaar) now [b]that[/b] was puerile
FIFYand so, it won't be too long before campaigning starts to legislate against [s]road riding[/s] private car use, especially with all the money that's being spent on cycle networks..
three and a half thousand killed or seriously injured on the roads each year. i don't see a few cyclists out on a club run on a sunday, delaying one car during it's operator's leisure time by 5 mins or so, as the big culprits here.
it's actually much nicer, to be nice..
I don't think many (any) posters are arguing that it nicer to be nasty.
Some (like me) are just suggesting that in the grand scheme of things, safety should come waaaaaaay ahead of being nice.
If you can be safe [i]and[/i] nice, then marvellous, lovely, all good.
But please don't put yourself or others in increased danger to be nice.
As a driver I'd be scarred for life to find out that cyclists were killed by trying to be nice to me.
Yunki said..
''and the only argument from me (essentially) is that although you're not obliged to.. it's actually much nicer, to be nice..
I personally prefer to give out a positive view of cycling to the non-cycling majority..''
Agee totally. Thats my whole point, all it took was for them to pull over it really was as simple as that.
Looking back now what added to my frustration was they wernt head down going for it they were merrily chatting and swapping positions. As I said initially they gave the impression they really didnt care less about me.
OP.. just leave it and move on..
amazed that a fellow cyclist (OP) believes that any cyclist should move out of the roadway to allow clear passage for a motorist, if the bikes weren't going to use the left filter lane to join another road they shouldn't be in it (even if it does make your drive 30seconds quicker).
read the highway code and accept that it does apply to you and your in the wrong.
Overtake safely or not at all.
Bikes abreast only force a motorist to overtake as defined by the highway code (ie pass as though you are passing a slow moving car) leave sufficient room such that should cyclist fall off you dont run them down.
Ive no doubt wasted the time its took to right this as have most others on this thread but at least we tried.. Maybe you should give up road cycling ?
specialknees - Member
Also, for fear of people identifying the riders (that may make them a target) I see no benifit in going into detail regarding location.
Ridiculous, just say what road it is ffs.
You will just have to take my word for it.
No.
Yes the group could have broken into smaller groups and waved the driver on but they were not obliged to do so
and it would be very tricky to co-ordinate, if not impossible.
If they are there on Thursday I will introduce myself, it may get interesting but Im not the confrontational type so we will see how it goes.
a) you're mental.
b) what do you hope to achieve?
The basic principle is that you are not obliged to let cars pass when on a bike
169Do not hold up a long queue of traffic, especially if you are driving a large or slow-moving vehicle. Check your mirrors frequently, and if necessary, pull in where it is safe and let traffic pass.
When following tractors etc, which are often slower than the average club cyclists
15, 18, 23, 27mph........ sorry no matter what club you are in you are slow moving vehicles.
three and a half thousand killed or seriously injured on the roads each year.
Quite a bit more than that sadly.
Try [b]25,023 killed or seriously injured[/b] of which 1,901 killed
- [url= http://www.dft.gov.uk/statistics/releases/reported-road-casualties-gb-main-results-2011/ ]DfT Road Casualty figures for 2011[/url]
nwilko - MemberIve no doubt wasted the time its took to right this as have most others on this thread but at least we tried.. Maybe you should give up [s]road cycling [/s] driving?
FTFY
As I said initially they gave the impression they really didnt care less about me.
Which is really what this is all about no? Because you're really important.
😯
stand corrected. fortunately my point still stands 😛
BWD,
Bit OTT there I think.
Im no more important than anybody else. I started the thread simply wanting other peoples views thats all. They have been pretty enlightening... most of them sensible.
specialknees - Member
... most of them sensible.
Apart from the OP where you made it all up.
And BWD +1
[img] 
[/img]
nwilko
You seem to have totally missed the point.
This is about consideration for a fellow human being. Without going over it again they could have let me past, but couldnt be bothered (it seems).
Or there was no-where safe to pull over, which you could demonstrate by providing a link to the road...
Lifer,
Not sure why you need justifation, Why would I invent it? Perhaps you need to look within.
They pulled in (to the filling station) and you could have got past then. What you're trying to determine is whether or not they should have stopped earlier. Most of the opinion on this thread is that they had no need to - as it was, you were only held up by a couple of minutes. Why are you so important that you can't be delayed for a couple of minutes/
specialknees - Member
Lifer,
Not sure why you need justifation, Why would I invent it? Perhaps you need to look within.
Not sure why you don't provide justification, unless you're making the whole thing up?
Christ, 12 pages.....
No, no make that 13!!
I NEVER let cars pass me in a filter lane like that (i.e. I don't go into them to let cars past on the road I'm driving on). Did it a couple of times and had near misses as cars thought I was turning off the road and put their foot down.
Yes, it's a ridiculous thing to suggest. Particularly for a large group.
You can go see these people. You will probably get some similar opinions to what you've read on here. And you will acheieve nothing.
Because the problem is not in the detail.
The problem is that even cyclists think that we should put ourselves in danger to give way to more important road users. That's the top and bottom of it.
It works both ways. The demands that put us at risk are not very nice. The intimidation is not very nice. The bullying is not very nice. The danger of death is not very nice. Yet we put up with it constantly - not once in a lifetime, or a few seconds a month.
And they have the audacity to tell [i]us[/i] to be nicer.
Can people not see how wrong that is?
We're the peasants of the middle age in the eyes of some. Second class citizens. This is the 21st century, we can expect better than this, surely?
Lifer,
I have already explained why and thats my choice.
Unless your more important than me.
Well I'll provide the opposite view then and wonder why slow moving adults playing funtime on their bikes can hold cars up for miles and offer no reasonable answer why they didn't pull in, when they could have done.
SK you don't sound anywhere near as self-important as many on here.
I hope they can offer a grown up rational reason why they didn't let you pass in a safe place. Maybe they were worried about safety, maybe they were humourless, arrogant roadies.
I've followed this with interest; and told myself to stay out of it a number of times - but I'm a little unnerved that the OP [u]still[/u] thinks that they should have 'done the right thing' and let him past.
So far as evidence he's claimed there were three points they could have done this - and the one he chose as his example (and presumably the best place in his eyes; hence the choosing) was wholly inappropriate.
I'm struggling to understand why the OP thinks the group even had something to answer for; if I'd been in a group of that size and there was nowhere we deemed appropriate to safely move aside and allow a following car to make progress WITHOUT having to stop then I'd have done exactly the same. And I'd have been pretty umipressed of the driver then questioned my judgement. I'd have been even more unimpressed if he went on to explain he was a cyclist - you'd expect a fellow cyclist to at least understand your point of view.
I'd also like to ask this - Assuming they should have allowed you to pass; should they have pulled over and stopped everytime a car was stuck behind ? I like to think I'm a curteous cyclist and respectful of other road users; but this continuing "they could have pulled over somewhere" attitude says to me that you think they should be prepared to sacrifice the enjoyment of their ride every time a car comes along; which is hardly practical nor fair.
Its no wonder less carefull car drivers put cyclist in danger and take unessesary risks to pass when I read some of the comments back.
Its attitudes like some of the above are taking that puts this rirft in place between cyclists and drivers.
Sad I say.
ooOOoo - Member
Well I'll provide the opposite view then and wonder why slow moving adults playing funtime on their bikes can hold cars up for miles and offer no reasonable answer why they didn't pull in, when they could have done.
That's the crux, if specialknees posts a link to the road we'll be able to see if 'they could have done'. But as he's lying about it (sorry 'protecting' the cyclists) it's all just conjecture.
Its no wonder less carefull car drivers put cyclist in danger and take unessesary risks to pass when I read some of the comments back.
Its attitudes like some of the above are taking that puts this rirft in place between cyclists and drivers.
Of course it is. Our bad.
We should only cycle on the roads if we are prepared to risk ourselves for drivers to get to their destination quicker. Because we should all be [i]that[/i] nice.
We've been corrected again. Do accept our humble apologies.
Good points there Stevehine,
Substitute your 'should' with 'could' and you will see where Im coming from.
Not baiting for a fight just surprised by your and others reaction.
I do fear for road cyclists more now than I did to be honest.
Maybe we can put aside the whats right and wrong and agree if they consider the unknown quantity sitting behind them in a dangerous weapon it would be to their benefit to let them pass.
...it would be to their benefit to let them pass.
Of course it would. Only as soon as there is a safe chance in doing so. No one has disagreed with that.
Maybe we can put aside the whats right and wrong and agree if they consider the unknown quantity sitting behind them in a dangerous weapon it would be to their benefit to let them pass.
If the "unknown quantity" is dangerous why would I want them alongside me where there isn't sufficient room on a narrow road??
Good comments specialknees
You now have defined the car as a weapon and unfortunately people use it as such.
Therefore these people driving behind cyclists should be more considerate of the fragile slow moving traffic in front of them.
And NOT expect everyone going slower than you to get out of their way.
It's this attitude that causes motorway crashes as people tail gate a slower car etc.
Get over the view that the world has to get out your way because you can drive faster, learn to drive slower and share the road.
just a question Specialknees, can you tell me what car you drive, i just wondered if you fit a stereotype. 😉
[i]You seem to have totally missed the point.
This is about consideration for a fellow human being. Without going over it again they could have let me past, but couldnt be bothered (it seems).[/i]
do you pull over and let faster cars past ?
I'd rather have a car behind me than along side me,
My two biggest; shiniest teeth at the front of my mouth are false. They were kindly installed by a dentist after someone following me in a large chunk of metal decided that they had more right to the road than I did and then sideswiped me into a parked car when an oncoming car made him choose between a head on collision and hitting me. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt that he actually remembered I was there.
At the time; I was quite happy to keep to the side of the road and "do my bit" and allow people in cars to squeeze by. I've since learned that it is far more dangerous to do that than it is to hold a decent road position and prevent a car from passing unless there is a genuine 'safe' overtaking point.
I don't think it's reasonable to expect cyclists to come to a complete stop everytime they hold up a car; nor do I think it's reasonable to expect them to squeeze into the gutter and let you past. Yet these seem to be exactly what you were hoping they would do. For you and presumably every car on the road.
Thread just over 24 hours old and still going strong.
Keep it up guys and I'm sure you can hit 500 posts by the end of the day - we're all rooting for you.
4 miles people, 4 miles.
Christ so many of you think cyclists can do whatever they want.
I bet you jump red lights.
Aaaaaaaarrrrrrggggggggghhh !!!!!!
Please make it stop !!!
13 Pages !!!!!
13 !!!!
Christ so many of you think cyclists can do whatever they want.
No; I think cyclists have a right to use the road without having to yield to cars at every opportunity.
I bet you jump red lights.
Nope; never. But then I live in the sticks where red lights are a novelty. 🙂
What makes the car driver's time more important than the cyclists'?wonder why slow moving adults playing funtime on their bikes can hold cars up for miles and offer no reasonable answer why they didn't pull in, when they could have done.
When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments. Here was a machine of precision and balance for the convenience of man. And (unlike subsequent inventions for man’s convenience) the more he used it, the fitter his body became. Here, for once, was a product of man’s brain that was entirely beneficial to those who used it, and of no harm or irritation to others. Progress should have stopped when man invented the bicycle.
thread closed
4 miles people, 4 miles.
So maybe what, 5 minutes, probably less?
Christ so many of you think cyclists can do whatever they want.
I don't think anyone has said anything like that.
Some people have just suggested that ten cyclists are not required to put themselves in danger to let one motorist pass them.
What makes the car driver's time more important than the cyclists'?
Because the car driver was driving to ride his bike.
10 people are expected by Specialknees to pull over and inconvenience themselves for the benefit of 1, himself. And they are the arrogant ones? Yeah, ok then.
Epic, epic trolling. Bravo.
What makes the car driver's time more important than the cyclists'?
No-one's saying it is. But to pull over takes a few seconds, re-organising into more manageable groups takes no time if you agree it before heading onto that bit of road; versus 7 minutes of the driver's time.
A few seconds of your time to save minutes of someone else's is common courtesy, NOTHING TO DO WITH WHO'S DRIVING/RIDING WHAT VEHICLE.
For my argument, all you have to do is ignore the modes of transport and just consider people.
As someone has already said above, if cyclists are expected to stop/pull over every time a car come up behind them then they'll be making no progress at all.
anyone posted up the actual section of road this took place on?
if cyclists are expected to stop/pull over every time a car come up behind them then they'll be making no progress at all
Again, that's not what anyone's saying.
anyone posted up the actual section of road this took place on?
No, there's some sort of protecting the innocent clause preventing that information being disclosed.
This thread does everything (again) to reinforce the negative stereotype of the typical STW forumite.
Miserable bunch of anti-cycling, Audi driving, trial centre riding biffers.
Sad.
anyone posted up the actual section of road this took place on?
It's top secret, to [s]protect the innocent[/s] hide the fact it's only 400 yards long with nowhere to pull over.
I've had 19 cups of tea and 11 packets of Digestives whilst reading this thread.. I feel sick now, I may Vom.
Isn't it all just the same old, same old....same old...
Story.
Wow - just how many times can the same argument be circulated with no concensus or conclusion.
I've an idea! How about the OP meets the Roadies in the pub and we all agree to go out and retrace the route on Sunday and see what we all think.
Might be good for another 13 pages.........
most had some sort of team kit on
no one has pointed out that its club kit.
Also if you were behind the club for so long and you have healthy eyes why did you not get the clubs email and then email the club to complain?
Happens all the time in my club. we just laugh abouut it and then screw over some one elses driving day 😆 😆 😆
[edit] tongue in cheek for the last part [/edit]
re-organising into more manageable groups takes no time if you agree it before heading onto that bit of road
And what about the point that splitting up into pairs would mean the driver now has to make five overtakes on a hazardous stretch of road?
I've an idea! How about the OP meets the Roadies in the pub and we all agree to go out and retrace the tout on Sunday and see what we all think.
If the OP goes to the pub I demand he takes a printout of this thread with him 😀
And videos it all too...
And what about the point that splitting up into pairs would mean the driver now has to make five overtakes on a hazardous stretch of road?
It's a fair one. Personally I wouldn't take a group down a road that bad, for that exact reason. If I found myself on one accidentally I'd argue for the group to break up into single riders to allow cars to negotiate when they could safely. I certainly would not block the road for 8 minutes.
Nice one Graham
I will take some Bombers, just in case. 😀
Team kit didnt mean anything to me at the time, didnt recognise it. But now know its a fairly local club. The club is a good club, does a lot for youth cycling in the local area. A good friend has done some coaching (MTB) for them in the past. I donated some bits and bobs when they had an auction recently, Marz Bombers were part of my donation strangelly enough.! As I said this isnt a witch hunt but I will let you know the outcome of Thursday.
Will have to get the first blow in as they may come packed. 🙂 🙂
You're missing the point.
The cyclists have as much right to be on the road (any road) as the car driver.
They did not block the road, they are traffic.
If it is not safe to overtake then the vehicle behind does not overtake, whether it is a bike, horse, ped or another car.
All this insistence on courtesy does not reflect the real-life experience of being on the road, in any vehicle.
As numerous people have said it is likely to be less safe to split than it is to stay together and the OPs least controversial stopping place is a death trap.
Matt
How about the OP meets the Roadies in the pub and we all agree to go out and retrace the route on Sunday and see what we all think.
Great! Can we all wear out new bargain £15 Endura STW jerseys for that 'matching team kit' look? Then any owners of a combustion engine who get stuck behind us knows what forum to complain on.
I guess you didn't read the OP about the road not being wide enough for two cars plus a bike?No-one's saying it is. But to pull over takes a few seconds, re-organising into more manageable groups takes no time if you agree it before heading onto that bit of road; versus 7 minutes of the driver's time.
+1 Butcher
I ride both MTB, and with a club on the road, and proud of it!
The OP makes a point that considers himself and his schedule to be of more importance than the roadies at the time. He must get past because he is in a car...All road users have equal rights, they were ahead.
Druidh said:
if cyclists are expected to stop/pull over every time a car come up behind them then they'll be making no progress at allmolgrips said:
Again, that's not what anyone's saying.
But we are talking about one car getting held up here, the OPs, if they [i]should[/i] pull over for this one car, then why not by extension every car. You'd never get anywhere.
And what about the point that splitting up into pairs would mean the driver now has to make five overtakes on a hazardous stretch of road?
If the road is too hazardous to pass, they shouldn't pass. So the point is irrelevant.
If I pass into a gap between you and your mate in front, just pretend I'm the team-car and draft me. But don't expect me to hand you a bidon 😉
road not being wide enough for two cars plus a bike?
if its wide enough for two cars then surely you had enough space to overtake? You don't go round a car when there is an on coming car so just wait for there to not be an on coming car and go round. You sir are a sissy lurking driver and a massive troll.
I know we haven't identified the club yet, but I have a really urge to have a pint in this pub on Thursday.
Matt
I'd argue for the group to break up into single riders to allow cars to negotiate when they could safely
Eh?? Then cars would need to make TEN separate overtakes on a road the OP didn't feel comfortable making ONE on.
Seems fairly likely that would actually hold up cars for a lot longer overall, though granted the drivers might feel slightly happier as they'd have the illusion of making progress.
I don't quite see how so many of you have changed specialknees into toad of toad hall. It is possible for cyclists to be arrogant too you know.
168Being overtaken. If a driver is trying to overtake you, maintain a steady course and speed, slowing down if necessary to let the vehicle pass. Never obstruct drivers who wish to pass. Speeding up or driving unpredictably while someone is overtaking you is dangerous. Drop back to maintain a two-second gap if someone overtakes and pulls into the gap in front of you.
169Do not hold up a long queue of traffic, especially if you are driving a large or slow-moving vehicle. Check your mirrors frequently, and if necessary, pull in where it is safe and let traffic pass.
Posted again for fun. It's 2012 and even in club kit lycra and carbon, you are a slow moving vehicle.
Then cars would need to make TEN separate overtakes on a road the OP didn't feel comfortable making ONE on
I dunno, there could have been innumerable single cyclist opportunities in four miles, but no peleton overtaking ones.
'Long queue of traffic' do we know if one existed?
Matt
He wasn't trying to overtake (as in performing an overtaking manoeuvre) so no reason to "slow down if necessary"
Also; I don't believe he was claiming to be the lead car of a long queue of traffic.
Do not hold up a long queue of traffic, especially if you are driving a large or slow-moving vehicle. Check your mirrors frequently, and if necessary, pull in where it is safe and let traffic pass.
One car does not qualify as a [i]"long queue of traffic"[/i] and they DID [i]"pull in where it is safe and let traffic pass"[/i].
So I'm not sure what your point is.
Wait, weren't these points made on page 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12 and 13?
I dunno, there could have been innumerable single cyclist opportunities in four miles, but no peleton overtaking ones.
Unless the OP has a particularly awful car, the difference between overtaking one bike (properly) versus 5 riding two-abreast should be a matter of seconds.