... what would you have built for you?
After ideas on what people would expect from a purpose built trail (not talking about free parking or cafe - but the actual riding)
like the very best bits of South Downs singletrack but that went on for 20 miles on a gentle downward slope.
Brechfa only longer
Most imprtant thing is to have stuff that allows people to progress.
If you are going to have a double, put a table the same size next to it, same goes for drops, steep rolldowns and really rocky bits
Something like carn mor ban but without the climb that goes on for ever!
No effing pine trees thats for sure & view that actually lets me get a feel for the part of the world that i am in, maybe some rocks & roots, a trig point would be nice. A trail thats been there for a hundred years or more, a smattering of historical feel, may be some tumbled down buildings from the industrial revolution.
If only such trails already existed eh? Then i wouldn't have to schlep up and down the M5/6/74 just to go for a ride.
OK... hold on guys...
Great to suggest places that you've ridden but what makes those places great to ride for you??
MrMichaelwright has the right idea in saying....
If you are going to have a double, put a table the same size next to it, same goes for drops, steep rolldowns and really rocky bits
Good point, i like trail obstacles of increasing severity to build confidence eg. 2 ft drop then a 3ft & maybe a 4. Same thing with the jumps too, practice the tabletop then do the double.
Ok - for me. good view from the top. Plenty of down for your climb - steep up and more gentle down so you can let the bike run and not spend a lot of time on the brakes. A mix of feels / types of trail. Some rock sections, some smooth flowing sections, some steep bits some not so steep. Chicken runs for doubles.
The main thing tho is to get good value for money. If I climb for an hour I want an hours descent. So short steep climb but winding less steep descent
Things to suit a wide range of abilities, any big stuff should have an easier option so that everyone can stay on their bike (you have to start somewhere).
Flowing downhill with a few technical bits is always good, means you can concentrate on the technique, and you can get your pedals in the right place and everything (again good for beginners but more advanced riders can still do it...only faster!).
So in summary a variety of stuff to keep everyone occupied!
If it was built [i]for me[/i] I wouldn't have chicken lines, cos everything would be just about do-able for me. A mix of fast and open then some natural slow tech with plenty of jumps etc smattered along would be perfect 🙂
Nobody has suggested mile upon mile of wintery slop to trudge through.
technical switch-back climbing, up a gentle gradient (1:10 - the trail that is, not the hill)
swoopy contouring between the trees.
flat corners (not bermed).
ok, some berms.
swoopy descending - not too steep (i like steep, but don't like burning height too quickly - it all has to be payed for on the way back up).
mix of open views, and wooded speeder-bike sections.
one fire road climb so you can have a chat and practise wheelies.
quite a lot like kirroughtree actually...
(or, quite a lot like the peak district, only with open access for bikes)
MrMichaelwright was also right in saying Brechfa...
... swoopy, whoopy, flowing singletrack, through the trees, focused, fast, pedally - in and out of the light, slalom tree-line skiing, flick left flick right, narrow, fluid, rhythm and no blues, heart pounding roller coaster, hollering, no breath grin fest.
Forget the drops, rock steps, trail armour and all that - make it like it said on the back of the old "Dictionary" Singletrack T- Shirt.
Very much like Brechfa, Penhydd, the original Karrimor....
[b]And why don't they RE-RELEASE That Shirt - Start the Appeal HERE[/b]
woodland spots to stop for a chat.
good viewpoints for photos of other riders
couple of technical climbs
NO false summits
something akinf to whites level descent really. but with more interesting woodland.
🙂
Firstly something built mainly from natural obstacles rather than being obviously man-made. Secondly have some obstacles that have black, red and blue routes through/over/round them so you can practise different skills and so that groups of different skill levels can ride the same route together
Edit - actually as TJ said Carn Ban Mor is almost perfect but not sure how you are going to get a 670m vertical drop over almost 5km without having to do some climbing?
A good mix but def need some slow techie rocky stuff.
Tight, slow, technical singletrack; roots & rock! Sounds like bliss. 😀
If you;re going to have doubles/table tops, put them on a straight section rather than into a berm, so I can concentrate on one skill at a time - I can corner (badly) or jump (badly) but one cannot immmediately follow the other - I need time to switch modes 😉
Various 'offshoots' and different lines all linking up again at the bottom of a track, e.g. a little hip jump into a nice twisty bermed section accross and down or straight over into something steep and technical.
not brechfa. loses height too quickly and is smooth with jumps. like a 4x run but longer. i prefer trails where you dictate the speed by pumping and a few kicks of the pedals so it flows rather than letting go of the brakes and you doing 30mph into a tabletop with a shitty transition straight into a berm. fine if you are rowan sorell riding god but not if you are a riding cod.
the beast at coedy has some bits that seem like they have been there for years (i guess they have) bit rocky but not enough to slow the flow.
I'd like all my favourite pices of trail swen together to make one long epic singletrack.
It would be..........
The rocky decent to the bottom of the west side of jacobs ladder, coming in from the south west round the woods (hard to describe without a map, but by far my bit of that ride) then turning left to do the fast singletrack down to the road with the drops every so often.
Followed by Sections 13-16 of Cannock. Only with some properly built step-ups please?
Coming out of the twisty bit in section 16 it'd be into Lady Cannings plantation for the super quick bit before bearing left for the usualy muddier bit but with some nice easy drops in summer leading to the bridge.
From there it's down Blaka Moor, with all three options swen into one long descent ending with the half mile of water bars to bunny hop over down to the stream.
After crossing the dtream it's down Cut Gate heading south, with all the nice drops at the start followed by the flagstones with a view befor epicking up speed into the stitchback'd decent to the stream.
From there its back into the woods for the relatively flat singletrack that marks the south/east edge of Robins Wood, heading north becasue it flows better before decending the hollybush run into the big 8ft kicker at the end 🙂
I think the blue/red/black elements next to each other in the same trail is a good idea, as a definite 'novice' who tends to ride with people way above my skill level.
That way you don't feel like you are holding people up if they have to wait for you to walk elements you can't ride or forcing them to ride trails too easy for them.
Water crossings!
Not of the pishy open drain variety - something you disappear up to the top tube in. Throw in some random football sized boulders at the deepest point to add to the challenge
Two features that I would have would be either side of the trail would be nice soft landings so when it goes pear shaped (as it usually does for me) then nothing gets broken and the other is an obvious one that no one has suggested.......a plane on a tread mill so you can see if it takes off 😉
Innerliethen red with the bottom of the trail outside my front door. Which is unlikely as its pretty flat for about 20 miles arounf here.
Something like this, but with trail instead of stairs.
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Edit: actually, did anyone ever play portal on Xbox? One portal at the bottom of dunkeld, another at the top. Continuous shredfest!*
*Might need to wait a couple of years for the technology, mind
La Varda from my back door and ridable all year round.
It already exists. The trail of 10 million steep, tight (downhill) switchbacks in France that I rode with the bike village people. It gives me sexy dreams 2 years later.
A smooth fireroad climb which never ends, with great views throught the tress.
Variety
A mostly singletrack climb like White's Level, but with some fireroad sections that give you a chance to chat and take in the views. Some Brechfa descents with the berms and the jumps, but also more natural stuff - like hidden valley. Some swoopy forest stuff like FOD and the odd scary section to really test you. Oh and a pebblebed descent, with big loose pebbles that make that lovely noise as you ride over them - I can think of one on Woodbury that starts as a narrow, steep deer track, before opening out again at the bottom 😀
I think switchbacky, not-too-technical narrow singletrack on the way up with occasional viewpoints, and then a nice mix of short, steep and longer, gentler gradient sections with a good mix of rocks and roots and drop-offs on the way back down - again, with a bench or two at good viewpoints. Personally, I'm not a fan of doubles and tabletops and all that BMX, 4X stuff.
One of my favourite things about the Carn Ban Mor descent is the transition from barren, open big-viewed descending into tighter forested stuff at the bottom - gives a real sense of coming down a full mountain.
You need to be concentrating on the way up and the way down.
In an ideal world I would stitch together the Whyte's Level ascent with the whole red run at Laggan on the way down - oh, yeah, chuck in a bit of boardwalk for variety.
Really long, very gradual downhill singletrack though trees with lots of twists around them - the sort of gradient that allows you to keep your speed up but doesn't really require lots of braking to slow you down for the tight stuff. I'm not really fussed about high speed stuff - I just love the twisty stuff.
Various trails at Killington in Vermont USofA were/are exactly like that - 45mins of singletrack was just brilliant.
In an ideal world, I'd like someone to make an exact replica of Bike Village's Grobag built right nextdoor. 🙂
As for realistically, well I'd like a mix of flowing, swoopy stuff and more technical stuff. Not just mixed randomly, though! Options allowing you to choose technical or flowing paths would be great.
Also don't just have technical sections appearing suddenly and full-on. They should generally start with milder features and build up. Kirroughtree does a good job of this. The qualifier and Slab at Dalbeattie are the opposite - they're just plonked there, off a fire road. The first few drops at Caddon Bank at Innerleithen are similar. I wonder if I'd be more capable of doing them if they appeared further down the trail, once I'd been mentally prepared by some smaller features.
Views are nice but not as important as the trails to me!
I like climbs with some twists, turns and technical features as they help me take my mind off the effort of going uphill. If there's a lot of hill to get up though, perhaps something smooth to make it as quick and as painless as possible?
dunno to be honest
Jedi - How about if I said if you were building a trail for yourself?
Some great suggestions. I also really like the idea of maybe a dual section mid way through the downhill where if you wanted you could race your mate almost side by side (maybe a tree width in between)
I also really enjoy technical gully rides. I still dream about 'the gully' in morzine. That was superb.
Bit of tamish / wide northshore too - (under headheight no skinnies)
This is what I would build.
i have never built a trail for myself so have no idea
Come and have a look at Lee Quarry 😀
i have wooden constructions in my head i need to build
Perfect trail.
Leave flocks of sheep on a mountain for 100 years.
Result, loads of proper mountainbike singletrack with uncertainty about what's round the corner or at the bottom of that dropoff or how deep that boggy bit is etc...
After all it is mountainbiking, not path riding.
No wooden north shore, no berms, no artificial jumps.
I can build uncertainty - but it wouldn't have any flow 😉
Smething that uses the landscape to its fullest effect. It could be steep, twisty, natural jumps and drops, or it could just have a lovely view. 🙂
It would be really chugging difficult! With techy climbs, hard descents, jumps, drops, difficult tooth bits, all with decent flowy singletrack like you get in the south east and south west alot. LOADS of corners. There would be sections that were too hard for me to ride right now. It would be awesome.
If I had a trail built for me, without wishing to sound cliched, there's only one thing I'd be after...
Flow
Forget pretty much everything else, the best trails in the world in my mind can be as flat as a pancake, or as steep as Mt Everest, but they all have flow.
And flow comes and goes as I've witnessed too. Cwm Carn Twrch trail for instance, sections of it used to flow brilliantly to my mind, and perhaps because of its popularity it seems to have worn quite a bit and lost a heck of a lot of the flow it used to have, particularly once you start descending from the top...
If it's only for me, I'll have something much lie Pie Run at Glentress but make it a little narrower, and have it go on for miles, break out of the trees occasionally to give it a bit of a view, more big roots, a load of rock gardens, some techy climbing, some bedrock stuff and give it some terrifying rocky steps/drops and a little bit of balancey woodwork to finish up.
OK, so I've effectively just said "Take Glentress, Drumlanrig and Kirroughtree and squash them all together" but that sounds like a pretty good recipe to me.