[Closed] How to make cyclists behave better...

My son's school is on a dead end with an alleyway footpath running between his school and another, it's tight with a blind bend in it. Commuting cyclists use it as a rat run. None get off.

I've challenged a few. Being 220lb and 6ft2 they don't swear at me because funnily a few mums at the school say they have to them when challenged.

I'm not a cyclist. I'm a human and a bloody nice one who doesn't like anti social behaviour like this. I even pointed out the two 'cyclists dismount' signs (couldn't see them mate).

Some cyclists are like children who never grew up.

Both parties in this scenario should have been mindful of the potential presence of the other.
It would seem that, in the instance described, the golfer has taken care to ensure that there is no one in his path, Biker has not taken care to ensure that there are no reasonably forseeable missiles headed his way before breaking cover at 20mph.

Perhaps the golf course should have been designed so that is less likely to happen, viz, there are clear sight lines from the tee rather than the potential for cyclists to 'appear from nowhere' or rather from tree cover. It sounds like bad course design as much as anything.

Perhaps the golf course should have been designed so that is less likely to happen, viz, there are clear sight lines from the tee rather than the potential for cyclists to 'appear from nowhere' or rather from tree cover. It sounds like bad course design as much as anything.

'Well the course shouldn't have been laid out that way, the tree's were in the way and I rode out in front of him and called him a bell end. I could have slowed down to check for golfers, but I was on Strava and doing 20mph'

That's only slightly more valid than:

'Well the road shouldn't have been laid out east/west, the sun got in my eyes and I ran him over. I could have slowed down to check for cyclists, but I was in a hurry'

I think the problem still lies with the golfer- he's whacking something that would hurt, a lot, over a public right of way. It's up to him to be 100% certain it's clear. The cyclist meanwhile can't do any harm to the golfer.

The cyclist is at least as entitled to be there as the golfer is. Neither have priority and as a non-golfer the cyclist certainly does not have to observe the niceties of the game.
Had the golfer already hit the ball before the rider appeared, a nice loud "FORE!" would have been the most suitable thing to say.

Had a long off road ride at the weekend along the SDW which is a shared trail, mostly bridleway status. Must have passed dozens of walkers of all types. Often, as is natural they'll spread out across the trail, walking two or three abreast. No bell on my bike (oops!) so I slow down and give a cheery 'on your left' or 'on your right'. Didn't get any grumbles, but frequently they'd be startled, as if a bike was the last thing they expected to see. Gonna fit a bell.

My local trails are well used by the red sock brigade and by local dog walkers alike.

I find the best method is a very friendly "Hello there! I'm just passing you on your left/right" with a good thirty yards warning to give other trail users plenty of time to react and/or get their dog in harness. If you're too close you'll startle folk or worry their animals.

While a bell is a good idea, they're invariably not loud enough, nor tell anyone else using your trails what your intentions are. I prefer a friendlier, more personal touch and it gets good results.

Only twice have I ever had a grumpy "didn't hear your bell", the stock response is always a robust "Ding-A-F***ing-Ling!".

I think the problem still lies with the [s]golfer[/s] driver - he's [s]whacking[/s] driving something that would hurt, a lot, over a public right of way. It's up to him to be 100% certain it's clear. The cyclist meanwhile can't do any harm to the [s]golfer[/s] driver.

Still like this logic if ,as in the circumstances described, the "driver" did check it was clear before the cyclist blindly pulled out in front of him from a concealed position at 20mph without looking?

I agree about slowing down & being courteous, but I still think there is an attitude problem. If you are on a shared use path you should at least be aware that there may be bikes on it. That doesn't mean you have to look over your shoulder the whole time, but it does mean that the presence of a bike on a cycle path shouldn't come as a shock. Too often you come across pedestrians who act as if the last thing they ever expected to see was a bloke on a bike. Granted if you ride like an a-hole it isn't going to help, but the fact remains the very presence of bikes on paths they have ever right to be on seems to generate rage in some people.

"Too fast" and "without a bell" are not really linked. The issue is probably the speed, i.e if the cyclist slowed down to 4 mph and then passed at walking speed the issue would go away. Ringing a bell and then riding past at 20+mph doesn't make people feel much better does it.

This is how I see it too

Everyone likes a comedy horn

defeats the purpose of shared use paths then.

might as well walk if im doing 4mph.

they manage it in holland - by having white lines and rules in busy areas about walking to one side or the other.....

over here its a freeforall lets walk 5 abreast with the dug on an extendomatic with our headphones in looking at our iphones.

and wonder why there is conflict.

and before you say use the roads if you want to go faster than 4mph.... i tried that - i got pulled over twice by the rozzers for being on the a92 dualer when there was a perfectly good "cycle path" (shared use - with lots of the above on)

the bell was a waste of time , the mega horn worked but isnt really socially acceptable although muppets with headphones in and dogs completely blocking the path deserve it imo.

ive gone down a pro 2 and freewheel up to them method - as generally im slowing down anyway to pass them as is curteous but im not slowing down to 4mph for everythign on the shared use path i exercise judgement on the appropriate speed - 1 person on their own .... ill slow down a bit a family with freerange children and dogs - walking pace is cool.

I just shout "morning!" as soon as in ear shot. If they acknowledge they've heard me - I slow down a little. If they don't acknowledge I slow down a lot - normally its cos they've got headphones on.

No-one is likely to hear you from 30 yards away unless you are shouting mega loud though. best to shout at more like 10 yards.

What I would like is a nice airhorn on the bars for the situation where you are approaching them head on and they're on the side of the white line that is reserved for bikes - can clearly see you coming and don't shift across.....PAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRPPPPPPP! 🙂

Still like this logic if ,as in the circumstances described, the "driver" did check it was clear before the cyclist blindly pulled out in front of him from a concealed position at 20mph without looking?

But by that logic, the scenario that has actually occurred is a driver pulling out on a cyclist using the main road. Not the other way round. The driver/golfer should have taken more care to ensure the way was clear.

Riding along I tend to just shout "mind your back". No need (legal or otherwise) for a bell (audible warning of approach is all that's required legally - as those who know me will attest I have a loud voice).

I did notice that the schoolkids I encountered on the canal towpath this morning were far more accommodating than old people/dog walkers.

I suspect the solution would be to re-educate the old people about shared use paths.

Did a 2 hours XC early this morning. Was timing myself but still able to slow down for walkers with dogs and got off to walk past a nervous horse/rider. What's the problem?

The only tricky one was lady jogger who didn't react to my first two verbal warnings - good old earphones!!!

I suspect the solution would be to re-educate the old people about shared use paths.

True but we're trying to placate the old people with some positive action without discouraging cycling which we want to encourage.

Only twice have I ever had a grumpy "didn't hear your bell", the stock response is always a robust "Ding-A-F***ing-Ling!".

I go for "ding dong" in the style of Leslie Phillips.

thanks for the input guys, its a tricky one, i wasnt going overly fast, its nice and open (strava lot go twice the speed),

just found this

clip which at 2mins 4-6 seconds

i would have appeared as the golfer had swung, he was aproximately 10-15m from the bridleway edge 30-35 metres ahead of me on the left.

his argument was i should have stopped. but the abuse he was hurling my direction was overkill, he had hit it before i became visible to him, i could see the ball up high overhead. so i felt no need to stop and as it was inline with the golfer i peddled on to avoid the line of flight.

bad timing, my fault, a golfer ****, to be honest the regular tee off is much further down, the majority of golders if they looked to be ready to swing i'll stop, or they'll wave me through, just one bad attitude,

i'm not having an old man stamping up and down shouting abuse, but same time he looked that angry i wasnt stopping for a chat

ollybus - fitting a bell still won't help with the walkers on the SDW 🙂
you're damned if you do, damned if you don't and they still startle at anything.

Fortunately IME the sheep on the SDW are a lot smarter & less likely to startle than the walkers.

I'm not saying having a bell (I have a couple) and or slowing down (I do) are bad things but neither will solve the issue of [i]some[/i] other people being grumpy ****s when they see cyclists.
I've been abused for ringing my bell and also been moaned at for saying "excuse me" while veeeery slowly riding behind walkers (having not heard my approach or earlier calls of morning, hello, etc)

I appreciate walkers don't understand how bikes handle nowadays and a cyclist stood on pedals can seem quite imposing and yes in the past I have on occasion acted like a bit of a nobber myself, I like to think I'm more of a well behaved, model cyclist nowadays.
(except for the whole fp thing obviously)

and before you say use the roads if you want to go faster than 4mph.... i tried that - i got pulled over twice by the rozzers for being on the a92 dualer when there was a perfectly good "cycle path" (shared use - with lots of the above on)

You need to report them as they are stopping you for no valid reason. Just because there is a cycle path doesn't mean you have to use it (and they would know that so bordering on harassment) Guessing they couldn't find any black motorists to annoy...

One thing I don't recommend is to do what the canal and river trust have done around here, putting big signs up saying "pedestrian priority". Since the signs went up I barely go a day without some (usually elderly) idiot pointing at said sign as justification for him and Doris taking up the whole path and refusing to move.
I think it is impossible to do much more to educate people who use bikes about shared use paths. I think there's a lot of education needed amongst pedestrians on shared use infrastructure.
I don't think people who complain about having to share should be indulged, it only seems to make them complain louder.
Try my response.
"If you don't like sharing space, there's a whole nationwide network of dedicated footpaths where you have every right to be surprised to see a cyclist. Piss off and use them."

I used to have a bell but to be honest, about 80% of the time people either ignored it or didn't hear it.

Hope hubs + shouting a cheery hello/"ding" seems to work quite well but you do get the "you should have a bell!" occasionally.

as a volunteer for SUSTRANS the cycling charity who build most of the off road cycle routes, we held an event in Blacon Chester, giving out free bells to cyclists, most gratefully recieved.Blacon now also has 3 sets of double speed humps on the cycle track

3 sets of double speed humps on the cycle track

have you done a knack knack while gapping the doubles they have built you 😀

as a volunteer for SUSTRANS the cycling charity who build most of the off road cycle routes, we held an event in Blacon Chester, giving out free bells to cyclists, most gratefully recieved.Blacon now also has 3 sets of double speed humps on the cycle track

Thanks, 3 pages in this is the first that actually offers something practical that's worked elsewhere.

they manage it in holland - by having white lines and rules in busy areas about walking to one side or the other.....

Most cyclists in Holland are commuting in civvies on sit up and beg bikes, not arse up head down shouting "Stravaaaaaaa...."

I believe that's where the issue lies. Cyclists in the UK are not looked upon in the same way (or behave in the same way) as Dutch cyclists.

Is this question to make cyclists behave better or improve the non cycling public's perception of cyclists behavior?

slowoldman - Member
they manage it in holland - by having white lines and rules in busy areas about walking to one side or the other.....
Most cyclists in Holland are commuting in civvies on sit up and beg bikes, not arse up head down shouting "Stravaaaaaaa...."

I believe that's where the issue lies. Cyclists in the UK are not looked upon in the same way (or behave in the same way) as Dutch cyclists

This and the comments regarding having kids along for the ride are issues. I've found myself doing it - you see someone in lycra on a shared use path and (regardless of their speed) regard them as a bit of a nobber. Problem is now I cycle further to work, lycra really is the best option even if some of it is on shared paths.

I've had some truly inexplicable encounters with a miserable minority of walkers. As I alluded to in my previous post, I really think educating other users is now a priority as whilst I do see a bit of nobbish riding, there is a general attitude particularly from miserable old git type walkers that cyclists are second class and less important, even if, for instance, cyclists are using the path to get to work vs walkers having a wander with their dogs (not that I don't think they have every right to be there, just being respectful of other users is a necessity for all users, not just cyclists).

I have even been told that I wasn't allowed to cycle somewhere in Scotland as it was "a footpath". I'm happy to share. I even have lost out on getting some Strava segments slowing down to be courteous to other users FFS! But some people have a genuine attitude problem, and no matter how courteous I am, they'll think I'm a bell end.

Regarding having bells, I had some, they all got damaged and fell off, so now I've got my voice/Hope hubs on some bikes.

Most important thing is to stop councils and Sustrans from building shared use paths..they are shit and everybody hates them. They make getting around an average UK town a confusing bit of a mess. Proper protected cycle tracks separate from road and pavement are the way to go. If there is a road scheme out for Consultation near you involving shared pavements email/write in and tell them don't do it. A cycnic might suggest they are actually being built in some areas to deliberately build up an anti cycling head of steam amongst certain groups

Re "Cyclists Dismount" sign comment on last page - it's perfectly legal to cycle somewhere if there is a "cyclists dismount" sign. It doesn't mean cyclists have to dismount, although many people think it does and get shirty with cyclists when they don't.

Walkers shoild wear helmets to protect them incase they are hit by bikes. Also if they wear hi vis we would see them more easily.

Do they have insurance my mate dave's mum's brother's sun crashed when a walker stepped and in front of him. He could have hit a child in the face!

There's nothing more joyous than a group with their expando dog lead taking up the entire width of a shared path. I like it even more so when they grumble and moan at you having the audacity for wanting them to move over. It's sad but some folk are just tossers.

I rounded a corner on a country lane that's seldom used by vehicles at the weekend whilst I had "Ahem" STRAVA running, these two elderly ladies seemed to be enjoying the chitter chat so living in a small rural community I did what I would have wanted someone to do if it was my mother meandering about the lane without a care in the world,

As folk have said above my Hope Hub alerted them without causing fear or putting them in danger, I'd slowed to a snails pace anyway and the two turned round without concern so I had the opportunity to tell them that I didn't want to rush up on them, at this point the oldest one made it quite clear that I could acost her at anytime with legs like that and tight fitting shorts, and the slightly younger looking one still in her 60's replied with a rather disgruntled "MOTHER"

That said I've previously had all sorts of issues in the past mostly with dog walkers on Hampstead Heath...........
I'm not sure what goes on with the dog walking types across there but they are ALL proper nasty and very very ignorant,
I did have a KOM on there a few years back, that wasn't easy to achieve I'll tell ya so whoever took that I hope you got as much grief as I did dodging the dog shit and Hunter wellies.

Anyway just to conclude, I've found that slowing right down for walkers, families, kids on bikes and even stopping for horse riders provides the best results. Sometimes this leads on to what could constitute a conversation,
Riding with a bell just gives dullards who complain anyway time to become offensive.
Slowing down and killing them with kindness makes for a much more enjoyable ride.

It always takes me half an hour to calm down and settle back into a rhythm when I'm enjoying a ride, most of the time it ruins it completely so to avoid disappointment I just behave accordingly.

Thanks, 3 pages in this is the first that actually offers something practical that's worked elsewhere.

You suggested that yourself in your original post. Maybe if you're going to do a bell giveaway, you could combine it with a simple, non-patronising flyer with a simple 'shared path code' - when I said 'empathy pills' earlier in the thread, I did sort of mean it.

If cyclists can understand why some walkers find bikes unnerving, they're more likely to ride in a sympathetic way. Ditto car drivers vis a vis cyclists. As for bloody golfers though, stuff 'em, I've just been out on my cross bike and had some wrinkly old tosser tee off towards me despite the fact that I was clearly visible. Some of you golf sympathisers need to get a grip...

I noticed more no cycling signs in Avenham Park in Preston this morning. The biggest problem with Avenham Park is litter, it resembles a landfill when the sun comes out. Can't help but thinking the purchase of signs saying 'Stop dropping litter you uneducated chav, dog walker or smoker(or all of the above)' would have been a better use of the money.

Some of you golf sympathisers need to get a grip.

Already have one thanks.... 😀

[img] [/img]

If cyclists can understand why some walkers find bikes unnerving, they're more likely to ride in a sympathetic way.

On good friday i was enjoying a nice ride down a quiet country lane, when i chanced upon a large party of walkers (20+) one of whom was carrying a large cross, I naturally slowed down to pass them upon which i was shouted at by a Margaret Rutherford lookalike next time use your bell, to which I replied I don't have to this is a road ! Made me chuckle.

I don't know what the answer is, some people just don't like cyclists. Someone got arsey with my partner on Sunday, he was going slower than walking pace, she had 3 dogs that were running around all over the place and wasn't in control of any of them. This was on a NCN route. Another time we were sat on a bench at the top of a hill. Some woman started ranting to her husband about cyclists not being allowed there, there's children and dogs that they could run over. She was clearly saying it loud enough for our benefit. We'd just ridden up a track that is sign posted horse and cycle track, there's a gate to the car park and a left turn up to the bench, there's nothing to say that cyclists aren't allowed on the bit up to the bench and we hadn't seen a single child on the way up and have never run any over in over 20 years of cycling.

I'm not sure why people are saying cyclists are so much better behaved in Holland. I've never seen so many bellends on bikes as in Amsterdam.

I've never seen so many bellends on bikes as in Amsterdam.

Sounds like a great weekend, but can we try to stay on topic.