[Closed] How to make cyclists behave better...

Shout immigrants a few times, they'll shuffle back in to their net curtain reinforced lairs until the dangers passed

Or

Give them all roles in a cycling safety liaison committee and hold monthly meetings (that you don't go to)

Fit rear view mirrors to walkers.

Safety padding for all old people.

Poor cycling, especially on footpaths and pavements does cause alarm. Especially to elderly people whose balance is poor and aren't so aware of what is happening around them. They feel vulnerable and bicycles which to them suddenly appear out of nowhere genuinely cause them distress.
Bells do actually help, but can't change a dick by giving him a free bell, they are what they are on bikes, in a car or walking the dog 🙁

All new bikes come fitted with a bell if you buy them complete, I thought ttha was the rules? There's no excuse for not having one.

They are uncool though. And to be fair, most people don't or pretend not to hear them.

I chastised my mate for not using one, he preferes to shout a warning rather than a polite tinkle, it seems to be more effective on balance.

All new bikes come fitted with a bell if you buy them complete, I thought that was the rules? There's no excuse for not having one.

You buy your bicycles pre-assembled by someone else? How quaint...

TBH it's perception, I ride on the local NCR and bridleways with and without my kids (with bells fitted to all our bikes), people seem to be a lot more pleasant when you have children cycling with you... Strange really as we're probably more of an inconvenience / wobbly danger to passing ped's with the kids than without.

Of course on my own I'm a "[i]cyclist[/i]" whereas with the kids I'm a more relatable and socialy accepted "[i]Dad[/i]"...

People see and respond to the stereotypes/labels that they are used to, and lazy thinkers, looking for something to object to, are seldom placated by the 'ding' of a bell...

Its OK though, eventually all these baby-boomers will die off and the next generation of old people are bound to be more progressive, inclusive and non-judgemental... Right?

Bells or not, I've had a bell and used the "excuse me" method and people have complained about both, and been startled by both. It doesn't seem to make much difference, some people just want to be annoyed by everything that isn't them.

Strange really as we're probably more of an inconvenience / wobbly danger to passing ped's with the kids than without.

Good point, I've seen that first hand. Toddler knocks an elderly lady flying and it's all smiles. Polish guy safely coasts past at 10mph on his way to work and he's the enemy.

Mind you, I'm not sure what I want to acheive here is improving cyclists.

I'm looking to reassure people that positive steps are being taken without annoying/patronising the cyclists.

I was wondering if other areas have tried anything that was well received by cyclists...

They feel vulnerable and bicycles which to them suddenly appear out of nowhere genuinely cause them distress.

Spot on IMHO. It's taken me a long time to work this out but it finally clicked a couple of years back.

I was anti bell for ages, it felt like a rude "get out of my way" signal.

I was wrong. Older people really appreciate it as a "there's a bike around" signal and sincerely like a few seconds to process that fact.

I'm convinced it's sincere. (Although I'm sure a few people use absence of bell as an excuse to complain.)

Very hard to explain to a 20yo that they won't always be able to hear a bike on a trail at 30m distance and process what to to in 0.005 seconds.

Very hard to explain to a 20yo that they won't always be able to hear a bike on a trail at 30m distance and process what to to in 0.005 seconds

In some of this you need to discount the always going to complain mod, the others need to be considered I do prefer a hello, or excuse me as a bell sounds more rude to me, speaking causes less heart attack jumps

Get the local complainants to fill out a lengthy questionnaire so they feel their concerns are being listened to.

Dish out a flyer with the bell highlighting the results of the questionnaire.

Run a workshop with complainants where you help them realise that they don't need to get out of the way of bikes. If they carry on in a predictable manner, the bike will find its way around. Same with motorcycles and cars.

Of course, I don't know exactly what your issues are, how significant or how actual/perceived so my comments may/may not be of any use at all.

Around here a bell makes sod all differerance.

I even have a loud ding dong style bell and they just ignore. Some of them still shout get a bell.......yes they may be deaf but thats not grounds to complain about cyclists "sneaking" up on them on shared use paths,

The dogs not on leada or on extendomatic leads ignore bells.

Da youth with their headphones in hear nothing.......

I've always wanted one of these fitted to my car for comedy value, a bike version would be pretty handy for these situations. Not sure where you would mount the tank and air compressor though 😆

Largely depends on the walkers own individual attitude to cyclists as well. I have a bell on my XC bike as I often end up on canal tow paths etc. If I ding the bell quite often I get "a simple excuse me please would have been nice" and if I say excuse me please then I seem to get an angry "you should have a bell on that"

"Too fast" and "without a bell" are not really linked. The issue is probably the speed, i.e if the cyclist slowed down to 4 mph and then passed at walking speed the issue would go away. Ringing a bell and then riding past at 20+mph doesn't make people feel much better does it.

I just freewheel and let my Hope hub act as a sound for them to hear which works most of the time. Ultimately on a shared path it is as much their job to be aware of what is around them as it is yours to have bells and whistles.

Limit cycling speed to 4mph around people. 😉

I slow to nearly walking pace and do a ex uzse me but few LEDs on my route. I think he's can be useful used from a distance and excuse me. Lose up. However the drops on my computer are narrow and a bell on that bike gets in the way.

The Brick has it, slow right down be courteous and considerate and you wont have a problem.

Theres probably no one single approach that fits all circumstances but being considerate always works.

I got shouted at by a golfer as I rode down through a golf course on a bridleway last weekend, I appeared as he had swung the club and I could see the golf ball going up and over directly inline with me, but I was doing about 18-20mph so carried on, (it's wide and open apart from the foliage/woodland that had obscured my view as I went round a long wide bend in the 2-3 metre wide path

This golfer starts shouting and swearing at me, that I should have stopped.. But I wasn't braking hard to stop for the chance of a gold ball to then hit me..

I politely called him a "bell end" and was on my way..
It annoyed me as I didn't feel I had done anything wrong, maybe it's an unwritten rule I stop and not give a distraction

I've got a bell on my gnarmac bike and it gets a fair amount of use and generally a positive response. But, and this is the key, it's also accompanied by me slowing down to not much more than walking pace. If you race past their going to be annoyed.

One thing ive noticed that even at busy time my non cyclist pub bike (a 1980s cruiser three speed which can still go a fair clip) never seems to get any comments or issue....perhaps its because im not a lycra lout when im on that , im a person in casual clothes on a bike.

Targeting a minority group springs to mind.

Just to add a boringly serious note.... the fourth reply from taxi25 above hits the nail on the head. Having just survived a 6 month stint of caring for an elderly and sick relative I can understand why old folk are nervous of cyclists. In fact an elderly friend on my relative got knocked flying by a woman running for a bus and broke her hip, which will probably finish off her independence because for anybody over 65 a week in hospital ages them by 10 years.

Unfortunately old folk often can't hear a high-pitched bell. Cyclists and runners need to take care around peds and call out a polite warning if approaching from behind.

À problem which reflects society as a whole I'm afraid. A bigger issue than a bell . Ding ding!

I often talk with my neighbour about this - She's 80 , and a very keen & active redsock. She complains of not hearing the bell or warning so I've stopped riding past her on the pavement at speed. 😉

It's easy to walk to one side of a path when there are cyclists about. I've no idea why most pedestrians don't do it though.

Taser or Pepper Spray for pedestrians to use against cyclists, it's the only solution..

Globalti - an acquaintance got knocked over by a ped and that makes oldies nervous...of cyclists?

Makes sense ... 🙄

I'm a bell user, my experience is that they are better received than shouting. However, bear in mind that old people loose their high frequency hearing a lot sooner than mid tones, so they still may not hear your little bell. Small ones are high pitched.

Be considerate to others?

Simple rule "give way" to the most vulnerable user....

I just slow down and say hello and excuse me. On the couple of occasions when people have said I should have a bell I've explained that I've slowed down and politely said hello and they can't argue with it. Ringing a bell whilst refusing to slow down isn't much better than shouting get out my way in my book.

Limit cycling speed to 4mph around people.

In the same way we would like cars to drive around us, slowly and considerately.

Bells may help, but it's about educating cyclists how to ride near more vulnerable users.

And some will always moan, and some will always ride like dicks.

Ridicule - if any biker is riding on a trail where 'old people' are walking, they simply are not Gnarrr enough and deserve to have their bike taken off them.

Give them empathy pills?

I got shouted at by a golfer as I rode down through a golf course on a bridleway last weekend, I appeared as he had swung the club and I could see the golf ball going up and over directly inline with me, but I was doing about 18-20mph so carried on, (it's wide and open apart from the foliage/woodland that had obscured my view as I went round a long wide bend in the 2-3 metre wide path

This golfer starts shouting and swearing at me, that I should have stopped.. But I wasn't braking hard to stop for the chance of a gold ball to then hit me..

I politely called him a "bell end" and was on my way..
It annoyed me as I didn't feel I had done anything wrong, maybe it's an unwritten rule I stop and not give a distraction

Got to say i'm with the golfer on this one. The difference in a swing which sends a golf ball soaring gracefully above your head and one which shanks it unpredictably towards your face, is tiny.
You were lucky that your sudden appearance didn't throw his swing off enough for him to send a daisy cutter in your direction at 130 mph.

Trust me, having done both, i'd rather take a tumble off a bike any day than take a direct hit fom a golf ball. It stings a bit.

You were on a golf course so there was a reasonable expectation that you would encounter a golfer. The responsibility is on you to be careful, for your own safety.

The analogy would be you unexpectedly encountering a rambler on a black trail at a trail center. Who's the "bell end" in that scenario?

You were on a golf course so there was a reasonable expectation that you would encounter a golfer. The responsibility is on you to be careful, for your own safety.

No he was on a bridleway that someone built a golf course around.

The analogy would be you unexpectedly encountering a rambler on a black trail at a trail center. Who's the "bell end" in that scenario?

That's a poor analogy and the rambler shouldn't be on a dedicated trail so it is not reasonable to expect there to be one whereas it is entirely reasonable to expect there to be cyclist, as well as walkers and horse riders on a bridleway.

Silly me! I do apologise.

I forgot that bridleways have invisible force field around them to protect dumbasses from being struck by fast moving objects. I do hope that there aren't any bridleways which cross train tracks anywhere near you.
If there are, best of luck arguing the point about right of way when you've blindly charged over the tracks and been turned into a red mist by two hundred tons of metal travelling at a hundred miles an hour.

I used to ride with a bell but it dinged every time I went over a bump and got annoying, and my friends started complaining about it. Also, with a brake lever and dropper post button it had to be mounted so far inboard it'd be difficult to use on anything properly rough.

Has anyone found a decent slim bell that doesn't constantly make noise?

Although I did find the effectiveness of a bell to be limited; people aren't used to hearing them anymore so think they've heard something else so don't move, or it just confuses them. Or they're in a big enough group (which seems to be over 3 people) that they're oblivious to their surroundings. I don't think it's hard- when I run on the canal towpath I keep to one side so even if I am in my own world people on bikes can get by, but I generally try and stay aware or my surroundings, as I would walking along a country lane or similar.

Instead of a bell i sort of flick the brake levers to make a clicking noise, its a bit more gentle than a bell and causes less surprise. Also it comes across like you are just changeing gear and not saying get out the way like a bell does. As well as that ive learnt that just slowing right down is best, still get angry looks from grumpy old men even then.

You're all rong..

Just shout..

Str.....

I just say excuse me please as i don't want a bell that dings every time I go over a kerb sized bump.

after they ignore my second attempt and just barge through at the next gap I see.

I think the correct solution is to round up all of the old timers and send them to the Isle of wight,then build a big wall around so prevent them escaping, at least it will stop them driving too.

Percy, if you are playing over an highway then the person with the high speed projectile takes the most care. Bit like shooting on or near one really.

Can we send anyone wearing 'beats audio' headphones too,

Hello
On your left
Excuse me
Oi
[b]EXCUSE ME[/b]

Percy, if you are playing over an highway then the person with the high speed projectile takes the most care. Bit like shooting on or near one really.

Maybe, but you'd give way to cars before stepping off the kerb wouldn't you?

Same with any other landowner (except cars, car's don't own the road), you wouldn't get in a farmers way just because it's a bridleway. It's a right of way, not a right to be a tool, usually someone still owns the land and it still has a use beyond your right to pass through it.

I think golf is as much a waste of a nice walk as anyone, but tearing down the fairway without checking it's clear is just being a weapons grade tool.

Percy, if you are playing over an highway then the person with the high speed projectile takes the most care. Bit like shooting on or near one really.

Couldn't agree more... but that's not what was described.

Golfer checks way is clear. Golfer pulls trigger on swing. Biker emerges from behind trees at full tilt and blindly charges along bridleway, without looking, directly across path of golf ball. Biker calls golfer a bell end.

Both parties in this scenario should have been mindful of the potential presence of the other.
It would seem that, in the instance described, the golfer has taken care to ensure that there is no one in his path, Biker has not taken care to ensure that there are no reasonably forseeable missiles headed his way before breaking cover at 20mph.

Had it been me in that scenario, I would have apologised to the golfer for not looking rather than branding him a helmet.

The analogy is rules of the road for me. As the slower moving vehicle on the road, it's up to the car driver to pass when it's appropriate and safe to do so.

On a path, you are effectively the car. Slow down and pass safely - but take into account your perception of what this is. In reality this is probably different to that of the average pedestrian. The "inconvenienced by all of 30 seconds" argument applies to a cyclist in this situation as much as a car passing a cyclist on the road.

Whilst you "could" pass by at a rate of knots whilst perfectly in control, doing so is intimidating. We're not happy with a car whipping past too close at high speed - this is the equivalent for walkers.