[Closed] How Much Does Price Matching Hurt The LBS?

So here is a question for you; there's a jacket you would like rrp £120, you know the online retailers have it at £72 (40% discount unlikely to be price matched by an indy lbs). Do you buy it online or do you go try them out for size first in an indy lbs?

Solve that and you can become a real capitalist - the most informed consultant for the retail industry - and you can buy whatever bike you want! Elfin the new Mary Portas!!

Elfin the new Mary Portas!!

Yay! 😀

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Your oversimplification to get your weasely words to fit your arguement gets worse with every post.

Right. You go into a shop with the intention of buying something, try it on, don't like it, walk out without purchasing.

Tell me what the difference is with me trying it on with no intention of buying it? Cos, like, the shop still does not in any way get a sale.

Have you bought every single item you've ever tried on? No. So please, don't lecture me, eh?

I think Z_11 is the Nemesis to your Torqetoomuch and he is actually getting to you now.

No; he's just Wrong to my Right, is all. 😀

Well. I think a little less of you than I did, not that I expect you're at all concerned.

That's something that you can't tell me I'm wrong about.

🙁

I went to buy an oak faced bookcase yesterday at a major office suppliers, Staples, asked if they had one in stock , no they said, only to order, and the warehouse is closed till 3 jan, then possibly 10 days delivery time.

So they failed on shed sale and male order sale.

Went to Band Q in stock ,bought and asembeled, bit not available for home delivery, no stock it appears.

Evenin' gents. Would you mind taking your slagging match to PM. Its becoming a ball ache trying to find the posts that aren't a E-peen contest. Cheers.

not that I expect you're at all concerned.

Actually I'm absolutely devastated and from this moment on, I shall vow to change my ways and become the fine upstanding moral citizen all youse lot obviously are. 😥

Would you mind taking your slagging match to PM.

Fair point. Email in profile. Actually I must go and sort my prawns out....

Chickenman

that the folk at the bottom who did most of the work didn't actually get paid at all. Is this not where unfettered capitalism leads to as a logical conclusion? Surely like any other model it can't work in isolation?

I'm not necessarily going to agree or disagree with you, however the paradoxical situation we've gotten into here, is that its Fred/Elfin being the one promoting the free market capitalist vision of "buy wherever is cheapest and damn the wider social consequences" - I'm just calling him a hippocryte for taking that position as it fundamentally conflicts with his self promoted left wing ideology 😉

however the paradoxical situation we've gotten into here, is that its Fred/Elfin being the one promoting the free market capitalist vision of "buy wherever is cheapest and damn the wider social consequences"

No, let's have it right, eh? That's something you've made up in your own head, it's not what I've said at all.

What I did say, was that in a situation where it's one Capitalist Enterprise versus another, I'll probbly go with the one which offers me the best deal according to my economic situation. Which I'd imagine is what the vast majority of people would also go with.

Other people understood this, but that's probbly cos they're not clouded with the pathetic need to get one over someone on the internet.

So, don't be misquoting me and making up crap to suit yer own narrow minded agenda, eh?

Right, prawns are defrosted....

This moral question works both ways. When I went in to ask for a price match at my LBS they were more than happy to do it..the reason they stated was that a: they'd rather make some profit than no profit, and B: they be putting it in the sale after christmas anyway (its now down at 1600, I paid 1400 (in Nov), it was 2150 originally). The point is that if I hadn't asked I'd have lost out on £550 quid and they wouldn't have thought twice about it. And this was regardless of the fact that I spend a small fortune in there over the past 12 months.

Ultimatly as a consumer the biking population get shafted by prices. An equally you are entirely justified to walk away. If any of the people on here would honestly pay the 900 extra for the LBS shop service then good luck to you, you're obviously much richer than me. I suspect the vast majority of the population can't afford such luxury when it comes to morals...

No, let's have it right, eh? That's something you've made up in your own head, it's not what I've said at all.

I think pwople can make up their own mind what you said - and here's some choice [b]quotes
[/b]

[i]Simple economics, innit? Buy wherever is cheapest
[/i]

[i]Business is business; dog eat dog. My priority is to myself, I can't be concerned with the profit margins of others.

Most of the time I just want the problem fixed for the cheapest price though, innit?

My financial resources are finite and limited. I, and most people I suspect, do not have sufficient disposable income to act charitably towards a private business. Are they going to give me a significant discount because i have less money than someone else? No. Ergo, I go where I can get a better deal for me. I don't have the luxury of choice. And neither do most others.[/i]

ElfinPwned 😆

100

What, for favouring one capitalist enterprise over another? [b]Since when was a bike shop a lovely wooly socialist enterprise anyway?[/b] It's a business whose principal function is to generate profit for it's owners, not some altruistic charity. Please explain how I can further Socialism by favouring one Capitalist Enterprise over another, cos I'd love to know...

eerrrrr..... http://www.bicycledoctor.co.uk/ 😉

I'll get some servicing down if I can't do it myself at the LBS. my local LBS' are all chains though (zeroG and cycle surgery). I'll also buy consumables (tubes, cables, lubes etc) sometimes gloves, jerseys etc if they have what I want in stock. I'll never order anything from the LBS though, that defeats the object and even the offer pisses me off as much as requesting price match pisses them off. I don't request price match any more, it upsets them so I just go online straight away.
Ultimately I'll buy online if it saves me a good bit of money (by my standards) but try not to mess the LBS around.
In answer to the OP, I would feel a little conflicted but £900 is a lot of money. Money which you have worked hard for.

Should we now mention that STW's own angry young mayn (sic) used to earn his pennies at a bike shop? 🙂

Money which you have worked hard for.

Well that's debatable 😆

Cheers for the input guys and gals. I think I'm going to at least try to come to some sort of compromise as I doubt they want to lose the business & I'd like to continue using them after this purchase.

What's the prawn defence?

(As per the tags).

I think this thread pretty much sums up why you lot are the worst kind of bike shop customers, and makes me happy I'm not running a normal bike shop 🙂

The LBS is caught between a rock and a hard place - the real advantage the LBS has is that you can actually go in and try stuff on or take it for a test ride. But they can't stop you then taking that valuable information and going elsewhere. But then, if something goes wrong, again it's the local LBS who often has to sort it out.

I guess there are several answers - one answer is that not everyone values money above everything else, and is perfectly fine to pay a bit extra to support a local shop. Not support in an altruistic way, but support so they're still in business for warranty work, and for the next time you need them.

But hey, my MTB is built around a Tomac frame I got for silly money from CRC, so I'm a bit hypocritical about this 🙂

Is there a law against trying something on in one shop yet buying it somewhere else?

Of course there isn't a law against it. This may seem strange, but I asked the question to get an idea of your attitude towards this sort of thing, which is quite clear. Bringing in the manufacturer is irrelevant is this.

I woon't be doing anything anyone else on here woon't do, no matter how self-righteous they pretend to be. At least I'm honest about it.

Well you're doing something I won't do; I have never gone into a shop to try something on for size knowing I had every intention of buying online. Whether you believe me or not is up to you, but I'm being honest.

Like I said before, if I want an online price I'll buy online, I don't bother asking for a price match. Because if you think about it there is no need.

Should we now mention that STW's own angry young mayn (sic) used to earn his pennies at a bike shop?

As did your good self, iirc. 😉

Oh btw, thanks for the tip about Boisdales; my mum loves jazz, dun't she, so she's definitely going to check it out. She said to thank you for your help. She also told me to tell you something which was in Latin, but I'm afraid I'm a bit rusty on that score, and have forgotten what it was. Never mind. I'm sure it was something suitably complimentary.

We ended up going to that most sophisticated of venues; Wetherspoons in Victoria Station. Had a burger each, plus some fantastic dark German beer and a pint of Blue Moon American wheat beer, which is really nice.

Of course, it meant we had to mix with some ghastly lower class types, but one must grin and bear it, mussunt one?

X

What's the prawn defence?

It's when I've said what's what, and others have just descended into talking cobblers once more/having snidey pops at me cos they've run out of owt intelligent to say, and I've got bored and toddled off to cook some prawns. Happens quite a bit tbh.

Proper lovely prawns they are too. Love the way they're 'Scottish' blue, then go pink in seconds! 😆

Bought from an Independent LPS (Local Prawn Shop) rather than one of those horrible beastly online prawn dealers, you'll all be very relieved to hear. 😀

Mmm.. prawns.

Frozen Planet on iPlayer- sorted. 🙂

Elfin - you played the prawn defence brilliantly. Well done on keeping cool under pressure and for avoiding a slagging match - impressive for STW. You dug deeper with excellent humour!!

And you buy Apple stuff.........!?!!

Personally (and I may be alone in this) I think Elfinsafety has been hijacked by a Troll. I'm serious - previously I have thought he had a valid opinion. Tonight I do not. In addition to that he seems to be adding a y to every third word e.g. 'thayt'. WTF?

We used to have standards on here but tonight it feels as if I'm listening to my 9 year-old daughter's friends.

Whilst I'm having a rant, STOP USING "does not in any way" AND "IZZENT" THEY ARE NOT REAL WORDS YOU ****WITS! Rant over.

TBH having read a fair few of the posts on this thread I find myself in general agreement with Elfin...

As much as some of you seem keen to turn buying a bike at the cheapest possible price into some sort of Socio-political, Thatcherite Mission statement, it's simply being sensible with your own financial resources...

I'd contend that those who can actually afford to pay full RRP in their LBS and do so for the touchy-feely "personal touch" of buying a bike from a person rather than an interweb page are perhaps paid too highly to qualify as proper "socialists". I wish I earned enough to have your high moral values...

Where do the great and the good stand on companies like on-one - direct retailers of far eastern produced goods?
Where do they figure in the great STW socialist republic?
I don't suppose they've had any money from a single one of you have they?

cookeaa - While most folk appreciate that the online model is correct for many purchases, that doesn't mean taking the piss out of local shops by using them as a handy changing room or a place to try out your proposed purchase. If you think the online retail system is the one for you, then at least let them bear the cost of sending you the wrong size, going through the re-stocking and sending you out the right one. If they need to increase their margins slightly to accommodate this overhead, that's just making it more "fair" all round. Your small local shop isn't being paid by CRC, Merlin or Wiggle to provide this service for you.

I don't use my LBS as "Google's Show room" I normally know what I want I find a reasonable price for it online first, I'll go into a shop and discuss the price match options, and I'd be willing to pay a bit more than the cheapest price to walk away with the item then and there, but I'm not going to cut my own throat just like the retailer won't.

If I go into browse I'm more than likely not going to make a purchase and I won't try anything on I'm not serious about buying...

You can sentimentalize it all you want but its a simply business transaction if either party doesn't get what they need from it they can simply turn the deal down.

I appreciate the difference in overheads between CRC and my LBS and understand they offer some things that an online retailer simply can't but often the consumer proposition of the online retailer fits my needs better...

Each man has a price for his morals. Mine is certainly less than £900, but more than a pair of shoes 🙂

cookeaa - Member
I don't use my LBS as "Google's Show room"

I'll go into a shop and discuss the price match options

This is the bit I don't get. Today, my car wiper blade was flapping about. Looked online, and could get one for £10, but needed one right away, so went to Halfords and paid £18. It just didn't occur to me to ask them to price-match. Perhaps I'm old-fashioned, but to me the price that's on the ticket is the price. If that price is acceptable to me, I buy it, if it's not then I don't. It just seems rude to haggle.

It just seems rude to haggle

[img] [/img]

Sounds like your manners are costing you money then...

So you think if I'd shown the Halfords checkout girl the online price, I could have got some money off?

[url= http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_14552_productId_563158_langId_-1_categoryId_173017 ]See here...[/url]

Halfords Guarantees
Price Promise

If you can buy the same product cheaper, within seven days and 20 miles of the store, Halfords will match the price. Even against trade outlets! Please ask in your local Halfords store for details of terms and conditions. Excludes online and catalogue orders.

Shop about a bit Halford ain't the only ones in the wiper blade game... and they do have a price matching policy...

Do you get my point, though? Why is haggling acceptable in some situations and not in others? Is it really because with an LBS you are dealing with a small company who perhaps needs your money more? I'm honestly interested in the psychology.

And do you do a full cost-benefit analysis, working out how much time you spend shopping around to save some money? Is it alwas worth shopping around, or isn't it often better to just pay the first price and then go do something better with your time?

If Fred thinks it's OK to try something in a bricks & mortar shop & then buy elsewhere, then why not have the balls to tell the shop your intentions when you walk in & see how happy they are about it.
You could of gone in & asked about the price first, then tried them on if you were happy, by doing it the other way around you have shown your mettle.

People have changed, the world has changed. You would be amazed how brazen people are getting, I often have people phoning up asking how to fix something so they can do it themselves or get a cheaper mechanic to do it, or test a car with no intention of buying from us, & by default costing us money. DIY is fine, but do your own research on the net or in a library, don't use others payed for resources, you don't go to work for free so don't expect others to give their time & experience for free.

Cheers.

If Fred thinks it's OK to try something in a bricks & mortar shop & then buy elsewhere, then why not have the balls to tell the shop your intentions when you walk in & see how happy they are about it.

I have done this. Read what I posted:

I've asked to try stuff on I have no intention of buying at full RRP, they've let me.

Mind telling me what I've done that's [b]illegal[/b] in any way?

See, what I'm actually doing, is showing shops that if they want my custom, and that of many many others, they need to recognise that they are losing sales to online retailers, and act accordingly. As I said earlier, I'm not going to lose sleep over the struggles of one sector of a Capitalist Enterprise over another.

you don't go to work for free so don't expect others to give their time & experience for free.

I've done loads of things for others, for nowt. As many people do. Not everything I do for others, I expect payment for. I'm not that nasty and selfish and capitalist...

Here's how Elfinomics works:

I have fifty pounds. I need some new shoes. Online they are forty pounds, in a shop they are fifty pounds.

I buy them online, and with the ten pounds saved, I can then buy a kebab and a six pack of lager.

Elfinomics = more small businesses benefit, wealth spread round more people = Socialist. 😀

ElfinPwned

No, you've bin [b][i]Prawned[/i][/b]!

Can I ask a stupid question? The rates that high street shops pay - do online retailers pay these too?

c_g, many of the larger online operations will be run from out of town locations. In some cases, they may well have rates relief or other incentives from local councils. If they are really lucky they get government assistance too - especially if setting up in an area struggling to attract investment for such as terrorist activity 🙂

Oh, and let's look at how two businesses that started off as LBS's have 'suffered' over the years:

Cycle Surgery; started as one tatty shop in Islington, now a chain of 24 shops nationwide.

Evans Cycles; started out as one shop in Kennington, now a chain with 45 shops nationwide.

Both have swallowed up loads of small independent LBS's in London especially, over the last 10 years or so. They now operate almost a cartel in London; surely their increased purchasing power must be hurting other indy shops? I've certainly known of a few shops which have closed due to an Evans opening nearby, for sure.

So do we not shop at Evans or Cycle Surgery because of the 'damage' they have done to the indy LBS industry?

But what if we do patronise a particular LBS, they become wealthy and powerful and put other LBS's out of business?

Oh what to do, it's all so confusing.... 🙁

Thanks druidh. 🙂

Just trying to understand whether there's a level playing field.

I support my lbs for bike builds/part swops/repairs due to complete ineptitude of all things mechanical. What I think is a shame is that they are governed by some manufacturers with regard to quantity of stock. For example, my lbs are unable to order further from Gore Bike Wear once their seasonal order has been fulfilled.

I've needed to order clothing online and if something doesn't fit then it's expensive to return particularly if by registered post.

If you believe the grim trigger strategy is applied day to day (and I expect it is by the larger operators like CRC), then price matching is bad for the consumer.

As an example, Merlin cycles and CRC may both sell the same set of Deore brakes. Merlin might be happy to sell them at £100 a set, whilst CRC already has them on sale at £120 a set.

But CRC operate a price match policy. If Merlin sell the brakes, pretty quickly CRC will be matching that price, and Merlin will have derived very little advantage from selling at the lower price. In the long run, they'd have probably been better off selling all their sets of brakes at £120.

The end result is that price matching discourages cutting prices, and encourages the stabilisation of prices.

You get an informal cartel where the consumer is acting to make sure every retailer gets the information they need.

Elf - surely the independant lbs need to raise their game? I've only once been in an Evans and was distinctly unimpressed. The layout was messy and not a huge selection either.

Aren't Cycle Surgery now owned by Snow & Rock?

I'm with Elfin on this one. Amazing to see how much money people have to throw away because they feel obliged to buy at their LBS.

I'll pay a few more quid to buy from LBS, as it saves me having to order online, possibly go and collect parcel from post office, and then return it if it's not what I want. However, if it's more than £5 more, I'll shop online for the best price.

LBS's tend to make most of their money from punters coming in off the street, with no idea what they want. I'd suggest most people know how to build/fix and run their own bikes, needing very little input or help from the LBS? I think the only thing I'd use mine for is for truing wheels (although, once I learn how to do it myself, that'll be one more thing I won't need them for).

cinnamon_girl - Member
surely the independant lbs need to [b]raise their game[/b]?

druidh - see my comments about my lbs and Gore Bike Wear. I obviously don't know whether this is typical of a manufacturer but surely an lbs should be able to order what a customer needs and not be dictated to?

price matching is bad for the consumer

I have no idea how you've worked that out, I'll be perfectly honest.

Elf - surely the independant lbs need to raise their game?

This is what I said from the start. But how do they do that? I'm not a LBS owner (thankfully), so I don't know the answer. Obviously servicing rakes in a fair bit, and stuff like innertubes and essentials, but how do they become more competitive against online retailers? I've suggested a couple of ideas earlier, but they seemed to get ignored in the wave of vitriol which swept my way...

See, this bit is more pertinent; if LBS's offer say local guided rides, organised biking holidays and stuff, as well as things like cycling awareness/proficiency courses for local kids, maybe do mechanics training for disaffected yute dem, helped out with local charities and thayt, then fair enough. Maybe there are some that do, but how many?

People seemed to be too busy accusing me of being a Thatcherite to bother thinking about that bit. 😆

Where do the great and the good stand on companies like on-one - direct retailers of far eastern produced goods?

I also mentioned this, but again, no response:

What about companies like On-One, what source stuff directly from abroad, sell only online, undercut the competition and I'd imagine do ok? Aren't they the same as the Evil CRC etc?

Surprise surprise...

Aren't Cycle Surgery now owned by Snow & Rock?

Yeah, bought out a few years ago. Made the founders, Ben and Steve, a rather tidy sum apparently. Fair play to them; they started a small business which provided for the specialist market, but din't lose sight of their bread and butter customers, and provided an excellent service for commuters etc. Offered a refreshing alternative to the slick corporate machine that Evans became. Great little business, and I'm pleased I worked there for a bit. As a former employee, I even got a nice discount on stuff after I'd left, but that stopped when S+R took over, sadly. 🙁

IMO they're just another big chain like Evans; charge full RRP on just about everything, and nowhere near the 'friendly local bike shop' feel they once had. Ah well that's progress I spose. Capitalism in action.

c_g - That's a rather strange tale. I don't know of any reason that a small shop couldn't order one or two items at a time from Gore. I certainly used to do this when I worked in a shop. However, it might have been that Gore themselves were out of stock after the initial orders were placed and fulfilled. This quite often happens, especially as the manufacturers don't want to be sitting on expensive, unsold stock.

What about companies like On-One, what source stuff directly from abroad,[b] sell only online,[/b] undercut the competition and I'd imagine do ok? Aren't they the same as the Evil CRC etc?

Haven't you answered your own question?