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Morality, unless supported in Law, is nothing more than the onion of individuals. Who are you or anyone else to impose your moral standards on me? What makes you so self-righteous?
Holy **** Elfin! Are you about to quit STW or something??!?!?!!!??
Just went into LBS - bought (slightly expensive) inner tubes and bike cleaner. Had some ok advice on new bike BUT found out they do free demo's. So that was worth saving the £50 on most other shops. Demo booked for next wed - so do I try the top fuel, ex-8 or remedy?
Silver linings here Elfin!! Bet you didn't think your post would generate such a reaction!!!
TBH, I don't think Shimano are bothered overly about the end price - they're probably much more bothered about brand reputation and support. They want their derailleurs to be properly packed in a good box with instructions, for example, not chucked into a sandwich bag.
What was the On-One question?
I'd say you're right there Ben.
Holy **** Elfin! Are you about to quit STW or something??!?!?!!!??
No why are you?
TBH, I don't think Shimano are bothered overly about the end price - they're probably much more bothered about brand reputation and support.
I'd imagine their primary concern is to make money, tbh...
Elfinsafety - Member
What's up Hilldodger; bored of stalking folk on Facebook?
Well more fool me, I actually thought you may have some interesting photos/artwork on your page what with claiming to be a creative person and that.
And, having met once on a stw ride thought I'd send you a FR - if that's stalking then I have a half used roll of Bacofoil if your old hat has worn out...........
.......and it's really poor form to start foruming stuff that happens elsewhere, manners please 🙄
Why would you think I'd want communication with someone who's made snidey comments towards me for much of the time I've bin on this forum? I certainly don't recall ever having met you.
Email in profile if you really must discuss this.
No why are you?
No disrespect Elfy but being self-righteous and the desire to impose your personal moral standards on others is a racket you seem to have sewn up.
Or is it all done with the aim of having an argument?
I don't know, but I've got a copy of CSI to watch and those prawn vol au vents won't cook themselves.
I'd imagine their primary concern is to make money, tbh...
Well, to the extent that that's the primary concern of any business. But of course that's not just about getting the most money for your product, it's about making sure that you can sell more products in the future, and that the people who buy your products are happy with them, and with the support they get. So the end consumer price is only one part of it.
Shimano (like most other manufacturers) have worked out that it's better for their own long-term success to have one distributor handling everything, for the reasons I've given. As a retailer, it's always a pain when products shift from one distributor to the other - the new distributor needs time to build up stocks and learn about servicing, the old distributor often punts out stock and seconds cheap to get rid of them, and there's confusion about what happens to warranties and the like.
And I'm still wondering what the On-One question was 🙂
TSY; I'm not self-righteous, I'm just [i]right[/i]. 😉
I've got a copy of CSI to watch and those prawn vol au vents won't cook themselves.
Excellent! But watch out for those vol-au-vents. Don't leave them out then reheat them, or you'll be very very ill.
And I'm still wondering what the On-One question was
On-One are a small company who import stuff directly from the Far East, sell only online, and offer quite significant discounts over other retailers, quite often. I was asking how they differed from CRC, Wiggle, etc, who are 'evil' cos they undercut the LBS's all the time, leading to the 'problem' of scum like me trying stuff on in a shop then going and buying it online.
Or something.
I dunno. TSY's mentioned prawns, and I'm suddenly distracted....
I don't think On-One are much different - as you say, another online retailer selling stuff cheap, it's the retail climate we have to work in at the moment.
The stickers did fall off my Mk.1 Tinbred after a week, though - shoddy workmanship 🙂
May be relevant. https://twitter.com/bikerumor/status/152771542214914049
Interesting - yes, the barcode scanning apps take it to a whole new level, letting you order from somewhere cheaper before you're even out of the store.
That's a very interesting article actually, Brant.
Here rather than having to go via ****ter:
http://www.bikerumor.com/2011/12/30/specialized-founder-mike-sinyard-blasts-amazons-price-check-app/
Here’s how it works: when in your shop, consumers simply scan a bar code, type in the product name or take a picture to see the product and prices from a variety of online retailers. After ensuring they have the right fit by trying on the product in your store, and talking to your staff, they can buy it from somebody else with the press of a button.
😀
(Scuttles off to buy smart 'phone and download app)
Cheers Mr Elf. I was posting from my "smartphone" on the train.
This thread has just reminded me that I'm still out of pocket because of some thieving sod who took a Brompton for a test ride and never came back. Bastard.
Anyhow, carry on...
I was posting from my "smartphone" on the train.
I think a 'smartphone' might be a bit too clever for me, so I need an i(diot)Phone...
This thread has just reminded me that I'm still out of pocket because of some thieving sod who took a Brompton for a test ride and never came back. Bastard.
Console yourself with the fact that they'll need loads of spensive new bits on a regular basis, to replace the tat that's failed, plus they'll be hated and despised, even spat at in the face*, for riding a Brompton...
*And rightly so; and rightly so.
😉
Worth remembering that the bikerumour/specialized comments are written from a very US standpoint, where retail price maintenance is not illegal, rather than the EU, where it is very strictly frowned upon.
Re. The app which has upset Mr Specialized - Would anyone here actually be cheeky enough to scan the barcode of an item while in a bike shop?
I know I wouldn't.
Ha, true 🙂 Does that mean I can pimp my Rohloff Disc Bromptons? No tat on them...
[url= http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6025/5979349514_d6775890db_z.jp g" target="_blank">
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/cycleologist/5979349514/ ]Rohloff Disc Brompton 6[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/cycleologist/ ]Ben Cooper[/url], on Flickr
Re. The app which has upset Mr Specialized - Would anyone here actually be cheeky enough to scan the barcode of an item while in a bike shop?I know I wouldn't.
I wouldn't either, but having done my time working in a couple of shops I think we'd be in the minority.
Would anyone here actually be cheeky enough to scan the barcode of an item while in a bike shop?
Ooh, that's a tricky one!
Only one way to find out- [url= http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=Elf+is+a+scumbayg&word2=Elf+is+not+a+scumbayg ]FIGHT! [/url]
😀
Regarding the app - why don't bike shops themselves use it?
If they're much cheaper than their competitors... increase their prices. Much more expensive, then lower them. It would soon stop being in anyone's interest to undercut each other, unless deliberately trying to bully competitors out of the market place...
Mike Sinyard seems to be encouraging the stocking of Spesh stock over his competitor's, because they only sell through IBDs. The problem there is that there is often a price difference between IBDs on their kit anyway, and IBDs do sell online.
Amazon are not the first to do this - I've had Shop Savvy on my phone for over two years and it does more or less the same job. Give it a coupe off years and buying any medium to big ticket item without doing a price comparison will seem bizarre.
The key is to add enough value that bricks and mortar retail is worthwhile.
Why should we feel guilty for finding the best price. We work hard and want the best we can get for our hard earnt money - nothing wrong with that. Anyway when I have price matched at my LBS...........I always end up buying something else at full price so a price match results in extra revenue for the LBS. Nothing wrong in that!
Why should we feel guilty for finding the best price. We work hard and want the best we can get for our hard earnt money - nothing wrong with that.
No, but that doesn't necessarily justify taking the pi$$ out of your LBS, which is what you're doing if you go and check out the goods there first before buying from somebody who doesn't have that overhead.
Sue W covered this better earlier though.
In my experience, if the LBS is competitive in its pricing........people will pay a little more to know a) they are supporting the LBS and b) they can rely on the aftersales. However if they are pricing themselves out of the market then people will behave as you describe (MrSalmon), rightly or wrongly.
More support with regards to rent and rates for small business is whats really needed so that they have a more level playing field to compete with the larger retail organisations and thats a wider issue than just LBS.
Why should we feel guilty for finding the best price. We work hard and want the best we can get for our hard earnt money - nothing wrong with that.
Just to put that in a "normal shopping" context - would you feel it is more [b]socially responsible[/b] to shop in Waitrose, where the staff are a little better paid, own the business, get a share in the profits, are overall better treated with a better pension and health care etc, than to buy in Tesco or ASDA, where the profits go to shareholders and the staff are worse off, the farmers get a lower price, but you save, literally, a few pennies on a basket of shopping.
Zulu-Eleven I am not in a position to shop in Waitrose. I choose Sainsburys as I find the product is better quality and does not damage my wallet half as much!
There are many factors that you have to consider.......just because you are in a position to shop with such high regards to others, doesn't mean we all are. We would all like to, but what we like and what we can do are to very different things. Life is always a compromise.
Z11 - you are highlighting some interesting aspects of difficult/confused logic all over the place. Quite a fun thread really!!
Outthere - Hey, don't think for one second that I'm in a position to not look after my pennies, I'll guarantee I earn a lot less than the median, but its me who's the self avowed right wing nutter, and even I can see the principles at play here that always buying the cheapest has pretty extensive knock on effects within wider society...
THM - yeah, I think that its quite interesting that the 'lefties' are very keen to personally benefit from the evils of the cut-throat capitalist society that they constantly tell us they despise 😉
The end result is that price matching discourages cutting prices, and encourages the stabilisation of prices.You get an informal cartel where the consumer is acting to make sure every retailer gets the information they need.
Just read your posts on this thread, very interesting.
It struck me that something was wrong with these price-match apps and what you've said makes a lot of sense.
But would prices stabilise at a level that would allow the small operators to continue to exist? Is there any precedent?
I think that its quite interesting that the 'lefties' are very keen to personally benefit from the evils of the cut-throat capitalist society that they constantly tell us they despise
Lefty singular, please.
I agree but the government are the only ones who can assist here. Human nature is what it is and if people have to watch the pennies then they will go cheap.
As I said ealier though........the majority of people will pay a few pounds more to support their LBS. If the LBS are competitively priced, people will come. It doesn't mean they have to price match as people know you get more from your LBS than your online retailer and most people will repect that and pay a little more.
Outthere - Hey, don't think for one second that I'm in a position to not look after my pennies, I'll guarantee I earn a lot less than the median, but its me who's the self avowed right wing nutter, and even I can see the principles at play here that always buying the cheapest has pretty extensive knock on effects within wider society...
Well said Z-11! I find I'm continually doing battle with my conscience when buying anything these days. Yes, we all need to look at the bigger picture.
I used one of those barcode apps in my shop. A mug came up as an exhaust pipe, so not sure how good they are.
Couple of years back we had that Don't Get Done Get Dom bloke come in the shop. He wanted cheap chocolates.
One of our ladies who had no idea who was ,tore a strip off of him. Needless to say he paid full whack.
She later referred to him as a "ghastly little barrow boy"!
In our shop we don't take the piss on our pricing but we find it hard to compete with the garden centres. If the companies let the small shops have stuff at the same price as the big boys we would immediately pass on the saving.
A buyer for tesco told us that they make 500% on their non grocery stuff. The half price sale doesn't look so good now does it?
Until a few years ago we sold a lot of craft stuff. Hobby craft turned up a few miles away, took most of our business and closed 5 local craft shops. Now the Hobbycraft has closed and left no craft shops. So we get the craft people coming back and moaning that we don't sell craft anymore.
A buyer for tesco told us that they make 500% on their non grocery stuff. The half price sale doesn't look so good now does it?
I very much doubt that. They might make 500% on some lines, but by and large they'll be doing between 10-70% depending on what it is. Branded FMCG clobber, shower gel, razors etc. will be making very little for them in terms of margin but running at huge volumes.
Exceptional things like own label mobile phone chargers, cables for plugging your ipod into the car etc. will be costing them < £1 to get but sell at a fiver, but they're not moving many of them...
THM - yeah, I think that its quite interesting that the 'lefties' are very keen to personally benefit from the evils of the cut-throat capitalist society that they constantly tell us they despise
I think it's quite interesting that you make stuff up in your own head to suit your own agenda, rather than actually considering what others have to say in any intelligent manner.
Just to put that in a "normal shopping" context - would you feel it is more socially responsible to shop in Waitrose, where the staff are a little better paid, own the business, get a share in the profits, are overall better treated with a better pension and health care etc, than to buy in Tesco or ASDA, where the profits go to shareholders and the staff are worse off, the farmers get a lower price, but you save, literally, a few pennies on a basket of shopping.
Why not just go directly to the farmer, rather than them have to sell his wares to the big supermarkets? That way you can give him the best price for his meat and eggs and milk.
Loving the hypocrisy of criticising someone for using an online retailer, then banging on about a supermarket. Waitrose still exercise their economic power to drive prices down to a level they are happy to buy their produce at, make no mistake. They may be marginally better than others, but that's about it. Still a business at the end of it, aren't they?
And as I've pointed out, buying from CRC helps the economy of a deprived part of the UK. They employ quite a number of local people I'd imagine, and contribute towards the local economy of that area. Or are you going to make up some argument against that fact? 🙄
Our growth continued and by 2008 [b]we were the largest employer in the local area[/b] with even more staff than the newly built ASDA! We are Royal Mail's largest customer in Northern Ireland and Parcel Force's largest export account.
Oh nd they also sponsor race teams, and have supported cycle sport for ages:
CRC organised some of the first ever downhill races in Ireland and put together the first ever Northern Ireland Downhill series
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Help.aspx?HelpTopicID=128
All from a little family run business. Suddenly, they don't look quite so evil after all...
[b]Re the barcode apps & looking at bricks & mortar shops to then buy on the web.[/b]
First lets say this is fair & dandy to side step the arguing.
So we all toddle off to the high street to check out sizing/quality/ appearance etc, & then use our smart phones to find & order on-line. So after a few weeks/months/years the retailer calls it a day & closes, no loss he wasn't the cheapest anyway. This goes on until all the high streets are just an endless procession of coffee shops, eateries & bookmakers.
Then what happens?
And don't say the high street should just compete on prices because that doesn't work, any idiot can set up a reselling company from their bedroom with absolutely no overheads.
Cheers.
Tooundred! 😀
Comefollowme...
This goes on until all the high streets are just an endless procession of coffee shops, eateries & bookmakers.Then what happens?
We have plenty of places to get a coffee, a bite to eat and have a flutter on the 3.30 at Chepstow?
No?
Why not just go directly to the farmer
You're aware of the history of ASDA (pre wal-mart) and Morrisons I take it Fred? 😉
So Fred - like I said, is it more socially responsible to buy from Tesco or Waitrose (who own loads of farms too)? Clearly Waitrose/JLP aren't just another profit making company - the profit goes to the workers, the workers control the means of production, this is the VERY ethos of socialism. anyone with any form of left wing credentials should be firmly rooted to that goal.
I bet you buy fair-trade bananas too Fred? 😉
If your LBS was someone like, oh, I don't know, Edinburgh Bike Co-Operative, would you maybe pay a little more and use them?
I just wish you were able to see how your own argument about how you spend [b]your[/b] money shoots down [i]everything[/i] you keep telling us about society, public sector spending and all that stuff. why should [b]your[/b] money be treated any differently from [b]our[/b] money
Just imagine if I said that we should outsource the fire brigade or ambulances to the cheapest bidder, because cost was the only thing that mattered... you'd be on me like a rabid dog 🙄
Elf, you said this a number of times:
I also mentioned this, but again, no response
in relation to this:
On-One are a small company who import stuff directly from the Far East, sell only online, and offer quite significant discounts over other retailers, quite often. I was asking how they differed from CRC, Wiggle, etc, who are 'evil' cos they undercut the LBS's all the time, leading to the 'problem' of scum like me trying stuff on in a shop then going and buying it online.
Not sure if it's aimed at me, but anyway just in case:
- I've never said CRC, Wiggle etc are evil
- I haven't called you scum
- I don't think I've been snidey
I think on-one are a great example of what can be done, totally helps you have a designer called Brant designing bikes with a usp, get's the brand known upon which they can build.
But just to re-iterate; I'm not against getting the best price whether online or in a shop, but what I wouldn't do is try on something with the intention of buying online, for me this goes against a core value.
So if I see a jacket that I like online that is heavily discounted from rrp I'll buy it, if it's the wrong fit (which hasn't happened yet as I know my size) I'll get it exchanged, probably going to be still less than rrp, plus the petrol, traipsing around and time taken.
Elfinsafety - MemberTooundred!
Comefollowme...
arh shit I keep missing these 🙁
2unfit - funnily enough I was thinking something similar, but along the lines of what if the retailers stopped stocking stuff that had to be tried on for size, how would we cope?
i love going into bike shops. online dont cut it for me as i want to hold and play with stuff before i buy. i bought my cooker from the local electrical store as i saw it and went in. they delivered it that day = winner. yeah i could have probably got it cheaper in comet or somewhere but they ticked all my wants.
i hate hassle. i brought wheels once from dave hinde after seeing an ad in mbuk as the best wheelebuilder or something. never again
i brought wheels once from dave hinde
There's ya problem
So Fred - like I said, is it more socially responsible to buy from Tesco or Waitrose (who own loads of farms too)?
I shop here:
[img] 
[/img]
🙂
If your LBS was someone like, oh, I don't know, Edinburgh Bike Co-Operative, would you maybe pay a little more and use them?
Definitely (as long as it's not too much more). But they're not. My LBS is an Evans...
I just wish you were able to see how your own argument about how you spend your money shoots down everything you keep telling us about society, public sector spending and all that stuff.
Sigh. I'm on about choosing between two private sector retailers, not between a private company and a state run one. Hence your silly argument there is worthless and invalid. So please stop banging on about it, you're getting very boring.
Not sure if it's aimed at me
It probbly weren't so don't fret. 🙂
bike shops buy in stuf from distributors. the distributors chuck out the stuff at the end of the year at stoopid prices leaving the lbs stock as worthless at retail and end up selling at less than they paid.
Elfinsafety - MemberWe have plenty of places to get a coffee, a bite to eat and have a flutter on the 3.30 at Chepstow?
No?
Come on, play the game & give us your answer.
I mean, I have been courteous to you right? There have been moments that I would of liked to of said that you were a self-righteous self-serving opinionated jumped up little **** that is wrapped up in their own self-importance, but I have so far refrained... 😉
What makes you think you're worthy of a response? 😕
'How Much Does Price Matching Hurt The LBS'...causes LBS to cut overheads i.e wages which prevents attracting and keeping hold of good knowledgeable staff.
You'd think in these times people would be falling over themselves for a job,especially under 21's.Where I used to work we looked for shop floor staff for 3 months.We either got muppets who could'nt tie their own shoelaces or "I can get paid more working in Mcdonalds/Tesco".
Given most of the appalling technical (mis)advice dished out on here there's still a plenty of need for 'professionals'.
What makes you think you're worthy of a response?
That's some ego going on there 🙄
Are you new here, Woody?
🙂
Only 9 years or so Cap'n 😉
Kill file then?About 90% of the posts on my computer are blank.....
I'll say it again. Our little warrior of the people knows the cost of everything but the value of nothing.
Karma will get him if his own bile doesn't rise up and drown him first.
Rorschach - Member
Kill file then?About 90% of the posts on my computer are blank.....
Hello, hello, can you hear me? 😉
Are you using the one IanMunro done, or have things moved on?
Cheers.
(Peeks in to see if there's any intelligent responses, nope. Isn't really surprised, considering the recent posters. Goes off to make bacony courgetty auberginey mushroomy stuff for supper)
Smally update for anyone not caught in the vortex of a slagging match (which failed to make it to PM after I asked)
Where I had found the £2300, the bike shop were advertising as having them but when questioned, didn't. So I didn't have a price match from them. The shop in question however, did some research off their own backs & got back to me offering £2800. Now, tomorrow I shall phone them and happily accept that offer as £400 is a fair whack of cash still to have knocked off. Long live Cheesecake!
Cheers gents/ladies/unknowns.
I sell them at £2,100 when I don't have them in stock.
Mate, get over yerself, get a life and stop with the ad hominem crap; where have I insulted you or made insinuations as to your mental health/drug habits or whatever? Why the need to sink to such petty bitchiness? Pathetic.
As before; you got owt you want to say to me, my email's in my profile.
If you type [i]elfin safety[/i] into google images and scroll down to Page 2, it appears that this thread [url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/any-woodworking-experts-got-any-tips-for-elf ]http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/any-woodworking-experts-got-any-tips-for-elf[/url] got a bit out of hand.
Now, tomorrow I shall phone them and happily accept that offer as £400 is a fair whack of cash still to have knocked off.
I love a happy ending 😉
just some random bits:
1. Reckon new cyclists are mush more likely to use an LBS in order to get face to face advice - LBS should (if they are good) always be able to offer a better experience than online
2. Over time for enthusiasts supply of bikes and parts is likely in the main by online as euthusiasts know (or think they know!) what they want and do not need LBS help
3. LBS will have to evolve from being suppliers to service centres to fit, service bikes and parts bought elsewhere for those than either do not have the time and/or skill to do their own spannering.. Servicing is one of the things that on line will not be able to directly compete with LBSs for.
This survey makes for interesting reading
Bikebiz Indy Retailer Survey Results:
http://www.bikebiz.com/news/read/independent-retail-survey-the-results-part-one/012286
Part2
http://www.bikebiz.com/news/read/independent-retail-survey-the-results-part-two/012288
3. LBS will have to evolve from being suppliers to service centres to fit, service bikes and parts bought elsewhere for those than either do not have the time and/or skill to do their own spannering
That rather depends on a service centre being a viable proposition. I remember Johns Bikes in Bath running a separate premises for repairs, but can recall no others. Could be viable as a mobile operation maybe? I remember fondly the time that Salisbury had 6 record shops. Now it has HMV, which sells music as an afterthought and a Classical and Jazz specialist bucking the trend. It would be a shame to be reduced from 5 cycling outlets down to Halfords in the same timeframe, which was about 4 years IIRC.
I remember fondly the time that Salisbury had 6 record shops
And that awesome Classical selection in the place upstairs by the bus station....! Sadly missed.
Nope, that's the specialist I mentioned above, still there 🙂
Is it? Fleck me sideways, I thought it had closed down! Wooo! Great news! (shows how often I head down that way these days!)
On a Sarum note - Good to see Goomama in their second year! Good luck, chaps!
Isn't on-one owned by hotlines that's owned by crc? Irony...
Seems Specialized are getting in on the argument. Sorry if this link has already been posted.
[url= http://www.dirtragmag.com/webrag/specialized-warns-dealers-new-price-checking-app ]Specialized warn retailers about Amazon App[/url]
For what it's worth I come down on the retailers side. A good LBS offers a value added service and this in tern justifies a little extra expense. I think this argument is as much about honesty and standards in a new age of shopping. We all like to browse the LBS but we also like to get best price. If you know what you want then go buy it wherever, but i draw the line at using the resources of a store to then purchase on line. Someone had it right earlier, if you feel justified in this sort of activity at least tell the staff up front. Give them the option to throw you out for the penny pinching gutter wrench you are!
I used to work in retail so a little opinionated on this one.
No. That would be Ragley.bobbyatwork - Member
Isn't on-one owned by hotlines that's owned by crc? Irony...
I don't think it's acceptable to do even if you tell the staff. They will be aware that if they say no it is unlikely that they will see any more of your money. Telling them that you're taking the piss doesn't make it right.
Actually, I think it might make it worse.
Telling them that you're taking the piss doesn't make it right.
Actually, I think it might make it worse.
Agreed.
Buy it as cheap as possible, learn how to fix it all your self, sorted.
i dont do d.i.y either.
thats what the yellow pages is for 🙂
There is another side to the traditional distributor and dealer network LBS vs online brands .
Back in the day in the mid 90s before on-one was born , we were a distributor of many brands - Rocky Mountain , Powerbar , Hed , Lemond , Odyssey etc etc - and being a smallish distributor in the mid 90s when the cycle market was undergoing a distinct consolidation . Small dealers either going out of business or being swallowed up by bigger ones getting bigger, and bigger ones are not interested in niche products or small suppliers , the business back then was about consolidation and the arrival of the corporates .
Couple this with the inward invasion of big powerful brands like trek , specialised , giant - offering huge long credit lines and massive dealer support , what happened to smaller distributors like us , the LBS literally told us to f*** o** , so despite being a long established distributor albeit a small one we were left in no mans land with no dealers wishing to commit to our stock .
So forgive us for moving with the times , we have to sell our stuff and pay our staff , and when one door gets closed you have to open another, the door that opened was the online market and it revolutionised the way we all do business .
Many , in fact , most of the LBS from the early 90s that we did business with are long gone , and the wheel has turned again.
See, the thing you've missed (and it's a big one), is that whether I spend my money in a LBS or online, it's still going into the economy.
Well basically I stopped here, you're just so wrong. I appreciate you a lot, but I think that what you've done makes you no better than stoner or Z11 or CFH. You don't just walk in a shop try stuff and buy it somewhere else because it's cheaper. How would you feel if someone asked you about what kind of design you could do for a website, you did a sketch and with this sketch they'll go and get it done somewhere cheaper. You won't be a happy bunny will you. And you'll be right. People in the bike shop are not only part of the economy, but more important they are part of the community. You know the guy next door, the butcher down the road, the baker, the small hi-fi shop. All are more likely to but back in your community what you gave them. And most important they are more concern about you enjoying your bike than CRC or some bloke on a forum. I suspect, most of your local bike shops pay taxes, to both government and city council, and the more you spend in the shop, the more taxes they pay. These local taxes go toward local child care, road maintenance, bin men, local police forces and probably the local branch of the FC. So basically your local community of shops subdivides your riding. We can't really have it both ways. It's either you think it's YOUR money and you must enjoy it the WAY you want, get the best value for it. And that makes you a capitalist, whether you like it or not and all your nice talks about NHS, pension and all is just smoke and mirror. Or you accept to get less value for your money but somehow help your community and that is called socialism and yes a pair of shoes and a rear mech might not be as cheap as you get them on-line. But you do get a lot in terms of services that you don't get on-line.
Juan, why the comparison?
I'm not a socialist, should I avoid my LBS?