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How you can be as good a dad working 12 hr days as you could working 7 hr days is beyond my comprehension.
Obviously! 🙄
It's called [u]time management[/u]
When the kids were growing up, they were at school for 9hrs of the day. They also went to bed early evening. And if you knew anything about kids you would also know that they don't want to "hang" with their dad for the rest of their waking hours. Saying all that I would definitly say I spent the same time with my kids growing up as most adults do.
They are however very grateful when they were able to be educated at the best school in the area, and were taken on holidays abroad for 4 weeks of the year. Depends what motivates you TJ. Our motivations are obviously wildly different.
EDIT: TJ I just read your first post - you work 18hrs a week? Do you have any children?
Currently working a zero hour week....but this will change to an 84hr week (x2) when my rotation comes around.
We certainly don't bust ourselves...A wise spark once said to me
Efficiency = Redundancy and Chaos means Cash 🙂
Generally 50+ per week at work but commuting time puts 3+ hours on that each day (admittedly I don't work much on the train - great place to catch up on sleep).
That's an interesting point isn't it, about what money effectively gives the kids in place of their parents being there.
I was lucky enough to go to private school from 13-18 instead of the comp I'd have probably been in otherwise up to 16 which I was in before the private school and I really didn't enjoy - bored out of my brain basically. So on that basis, yes, money (in an indirect way in my case since it didn't actually involve my Dad working particularly long hours) definitely made me happier. I'm less certain that I'd have felt that way if it had involved my Dad not being around much. My Grandad ran the family business and worked long hours. My Dad always says that he'd have far preferred to have not gone on the amazing holidays and had all the nice stuff and to have actually known his Dad while he was a kid...
So, the other stuff like holidays, etc, I'm far less certain of the benefit to kids. And yes, obviously kids don't want to spend all their time with Mum and Dad but that's different to kids not wanting their parents to be around.
So your parents work hard to give you a better life, you work hard to give your children a better life, your children work hard to give their children a better life. When do the benefits actually materialise?
People have fallen into the classic trap, have no life of their own, and just believe the propaganda to keep them working (wasting) their lives away.
A point that just occurred to me - we tend to have friends with a similar outlook from a similar sphere of work - so the working / living patterns that we have tend to be similar to our friends thus appears to be the norm.
None of my friends that I see much of are involved in the long hours culture so it is not the norm to me. I guess if you work and live in that culture it becomes the norm
None of my friends that I see much of are involved in the long hours culture so it is not the norm to me. I guess if you work and live in that culture it becomes the norm
Do you have children TJ?
I have a wide variety of friends from stay at home mums and dads, doctors, teachers and traders. There are definitly differences.
So your parents work hard to give you a better life, you work hard to give your children a better life, your children work hard to give their children a better life. When do the benefits actually materialise?
At every step along the route.
Depends what motivates you TJ. Our motivations are obviously wildly different.
Clearly. I have no desire for material goods and don't care about money so long as I have enough for the basics.
EDIT: TJ I just read your first post - you work 18hrs a week? Do you have any children?
Averaged over years No kids. Lots of time to play instead and I do all most all the housework and stuff so Mrs TJ has plenty of time to play as well. We took a drop of over £20 000 pa to do this and are much happier with far more time for stuff altho we don't always make the best use of time. I have done up a couple of houses for us to live in - that sort of thing
I get a lot of pleasure out of simple things - a walk along the river on a spring morning and the like. costs nowt.
I work 37.5 hrs a week, even thats too much i reckon.
84 hrs a week, shove that right up yer chuff.
I don't always agree with what TJ says but this
I get a lot of pleasure out of simple things - a walk along the river on a spring morning and the like. costs nowt.
hits the nail ont head.
TandemJeremy - Member
A point that just occurred to me - we tend to have friends with a similar outlook from a similar sphere of work - so the working / living patterns that we have tend to be similar to our friends thus appears to be the norm
You see, I don't have that at all. I have friends who are classic slackers and others who work all the hours under the sun and earn lots. Some lefties, some righties, may centrists. Thing is they're all nice people which is more how I try to identify people to be friends with rather than just sharing the same views/outlooks/work. I think that your friends all seem to be so homogenous says a lot about you as it goes...
Not that I disagree with your views on working hours, obviously.
I am still intrigued for all the other long hour workers with kids as to exactly what benefits there really are for your kids other than the better schools one (and only secondary IME).
This is getting on to a more emotive discussion, and could be a whole different thread.
I dont see why parents think they need to earn their childrens love/respect through monetary gifts etc. Mrs FD works long hours and already feels guilty to Jnr FD so buys him stuff to compensate.
Its a cultural thing that in her job she doesnt feel that she could stay on maternity leave for a year, or work shorter hours because she wouldnt get promoted etc etc. That is probably all true, but just sadly reflects how low the family life is reflected in society that work comes before family and therefore partly why society is going down the swanny.
Yeah, I know there's a real risk of that. I'm not trying to point the finger at those who work long hours ostensibly for their kids - particularly as IME they're often driven by having had poor childhoods themselves and wanting better for their kids.
I just don't really 'get' the view, that's what I'm trying to understand. I guess part of that's down to my parents, my Dad in particular who managed to be pretty successful but in his view would have been much more so if he'd been willing to sacrifice (in his view) family life by working more hours, travelling more, relocating us, etc. He always said he didn't think it was a sacrifice worth making.
TJ, you work an 18hour week and have no kids.
Seriously? How do you think you have the right to comment about working longer hours for the good/detriment of your family?
This is definitly a subject you are not qualified to comment on.
LHS - leave it out, you don't have to have kids to be qualified to comment on this.
No benefits for kids if the parents are at work all day every day. All they really wish for un-till their teens is time spent with their parents. As adults we get too hooked up on this materialistic world and put to much emphasis on careers and ownership of things or keeping up with the jones'
All these 60-80hr weeks = early grave (and you don't even have time to enjoy your short lives!!)
LHS - Wasnt TJ once a child and therefore knows what its like to have parents that work?? (which I assume they did)
I think if I asked any work colleague/friend/child I know if they would prefer their parents to be at home more or at work more, I'm pretty positive most of them would say at home more. Of course alot would say that you have to work to get money to live, but thats where people boundaries differ. Some think its acceptable to not see their kids every day because they leave before they go to work and dont get home until after they have gone to bed, others think that is not excusable.
IMO its a compromise, but to think you can buy your kids love is just ridiculous.
Well roll up my right trouser leg, blow me and call me Grand poobah Susan the third I've seen the light!!!!!
TJ you're a bloody genius, the second coming, an Edinburghdonian soothsayer.
Every pissin' post on here you've got an alternative opinion and I can't believe it's taken me this long to realise why I'm always so wrong.
On your advice today I'm gonna quit my job, fain some kind of injury (maybe a dislocated left ball) and get me some of that incapacity benefit stuff. (you know the good stuff, not that job seekers crap)
That way I could get the council/government to pay for everything and I could stay at home all day with my kids.
I could join Britain's work shy, work to rule, it's all owed to me and I don't have to do anything, I should just get it 'cos they've got it underclass.
I could join the smug fine up standing pillars of the community they are with some of the brightest and best kids.(they are really very mature and even though they are only 6 some of the privileged kids with stay at home parents at my daughters school can swear better than a mechanic that's just caught his nob in the car door)
And when I fancy a new bike I'll just nick one, it will be okay, it will be insured right? and they'll have more money than me so that will make it okay.
And if my kids turn out to be thieving retarded scum bags I can always blame the system can't I?
Happy days....
About 40 hours a week the rest of the time I'm on call so I never really switch off, don't do this for luxury holidays (I don't have holidays or time off other than bank holidays and weekends) but I do it to provide a comfortable house for my wife and daughter, oh and the BMW.
dunc - I was created fullyfledged in my second childhood. I am a bot. 🙂
Tiger6791 - Member
Great post. That's clearly the only alternative to working lots of hours.
Well we don't do live and let live middle of the road common sense on here do we 🙂
[quote=FunkyDunc]IMO its a compromise, but to think you can buy your kids love is just ridiculous.
As is assuming that the extra hours worked (either through recompense or greater job security, whether it be perceived or otherwise) go towards trinkets etc, rather than keeping a roof over your family's heads..
Or the assumption that someone who works less hours will automatically invest them in his/her family rather than, say, riding their push-bike more..
LOL @ tiger
That way I could get the council/government to pay for everything and I could stay at home all day with my kids.I could join Britain's work shy, work to rule, it's all owed to me and I don't have to do anything, I should just get it 'cos they've got it underclass.
I could join the smug fine up standing pillars of the community they are with some of the brightest and best kids.(they are really very mature and even though they are only 6 some of the privileged kids with stay at home parents at my daughters school can swear better than a mechanic that's just caught his nob in the car door)
And when I fancy a new bike I'll just nick one, it will be okay, it will be insured right? and they'll have more money than me so that will make it okay.
And if my kids turn out to be thieving retarded scum bags I can always blame the system can't I?
Brilliant post, I'm surrounded by these people on a daily basis.
LHS - leave it out, you don't have to have kids to be qualified to comment on this.
Yes you do.
Of course you don't. I have kids now, I didn't before. My view hasn't changed. YMMV.
So how do you work 11-12 hours a day and still spend time with your children (Assumning your office based, not working from home)? I'm there for my children when they get up and when they go to bed. Our neighbour works long hours, he rarely sees much of his 6 month old daughter between weekends because of it. He's pretty miserable as a result, all because of the doing the extra "bit" every day.
I work in the oil industry, where the mentality is to work more than contracted hours. I choose not to, end of. I have on occasion worked extra, but i can count those occasions on one hand. And i get paid way over the national average.
If you work extra hours, its because you choose too, you swallowed the propoganda, got suckered in to the work more for less ethic. Your a sheep.
My father was in the military and spent a lot of time away. All the jobs he had thereafter involved long hours and being away. Whilst it was very nice having the Bentleys and Rollers parked on the drive, when my father died when i was 18 i would have traded it all to spend more time with him.
You can always earn more money, you can never get more time.
So how do you work 11-12 hours a day and still spend time with your children
When the kids were growing up my typical day would be something along the lines of
Work 5.30am to 6.30am.
Get the kids out of bed at 6.30am have breakfast with them and the wife until 8am.
Work 8am to 6.30pm
Dinner and time with the wife and kids before they go to bed at say 9pm. Follow up work if required 9pm to 10pm.
The challenge comes if you travel internationally when you are away for a week at a time. But thats not uncommon for a lot of people - up to you to manage.
If your happy with that LHS, than fair enough. But that is living to work, in my opinion.
Intersting LHS and certainly one way to manage your time. Not leaving much for you to wash, sleep, talk to adults and so on.
We all make our compromises and that would appear to be a well thought out one but IMO hardly conducive to a healthy life for you - but may well not compromise your kids
[i] LHS - leave it out, you don't have to have kids to be qualified to comment on this.
Yes you do. [/i]
Sounds like we need a union. I'll bring the brazier.
Out of interest, LHS, what did you do when they were younger and sleeping 12ish hours at night (7 to 7 give or take)?
I was wondering that too, but didnt want this to turn in to a witch hunt for LHS.
I wouldnt work in that kind of regieme for any money, but then everyones different.
We all make our compromises and that would appear to be a well thought out one but IMO hardly conducive to a healthy life for you
You see I don't see it as compromises. I get plenty of time with the kids, don't work weekends, have sent the kids to great schools and Universities, ride my bike a lot, take 4 holidays a year and will be able to retire in the next few years, at which point I will also be able to spend as much time travelling the world as I like seeing nieces, nephews, and grandkids. I've never felt healthier.
EDIT: Retiring at 50 will also enable me to have 15 years more out of work than the average person, significantly improving my life expectancy.
You're missing out on the opportunity to call fellow workers 'scabs' though.
Look at Mrs T, she never slept, worked a lot and she's still alive. Dennis had the easy life and he's not with us.
And her kids turned out pretty well. 🙂
Journo & Military coup instigator
I predict that in under 25 more responses before Godwin's law kicks in
tiger - she has multiinfarct dementia -hardly "alive"
[i]I predict that in under 25 more responses before Godwin's law kicks in [/i]
It could be argued that you've already triggered it with the third and fourth words of your post...
Just out of interest LHS what do you do for a living? I notice from your forum history you have asked about cheapish suits so I guess it's not banking. 😉
Just out of interest LHS what do you do for a living? I notice from your forum history you have asked about cheapish suits so I guess it's not banking.
Classless 😐
[i]how many hours do you work a week?[/i]
60 PLUS !.
If I do not work,.... I do not EAT.
Private sector innnit !.
big hours, no pension.
Thing is LHS, you get paid to work those hours, based on you retiring 50. Theres a lot of people out there that work those hours and dont get paid.
You can easily work an 11-12 hour day and still be around for your kids.
Not as much though, as shown in your example. If you can be flexible as shown, I can accept that it's not as detrimental as actually being out of the house from say 7am-8pm or longer like a lot of city workers.
My daughter is 5 months, generally wakes up between 6.30 and 7.30 and is in bed by 6. If I'm working a long week I rarely see her, which hurts.
ride my bike a lot
Between 10pm and 5.30am??? Do you never sleep. Or maybe you're just a weekend warrior 😉
Thing is LHS, you get paid to work those hours, based on you retiring 50. Theres a lot of people out there that work those hours and dont get paid.
And that in my mind is not acceptable.
I notice from your forum history you have asked about cheapish suits so I guess it's not banking
good to know I have a stalker, cheapish suits - yes, you don't become wealthy by being flash and wasting your money!
Guys - LHS has been very open here - don't hit him with a big stick