[Closed] how many cx riders will change to discs on there next purchase?

already done 🙂

don't race and it saves on rims and actually stops me too
so I can ride faster, and steeper trails.

27

No

Been there, done that.

Canti's on the next one, racing only.

No plans to do anything for a while but if the choice is good I would think about it. Better for muddy races, rim wear and general use (as i ride my bike more than just in races).

Yeah, would be an automatic choice for me (don't race though). Had a front disk for a good while on the DC-19 fork which works well, but if upgrading the frame would probably go for rear disk mounts as well.

Me

Already on discs. First cross bike, and discs seemed liked a no brainer. Consisent power and good lever feel, they work on wet roads, save rim wear and most of all, they stopped my wheels jamming up in muddy cross races!

I did with my X

We did for our race bikes this year using the v-twin adapters, can't say I'd ever be in a rush to change back. Cantilevers look so retro now!

As much as I'd dispute the idea that discs are the best thing since sliced bread on drop barred bikes, if I got a new crosser it would have discs.

Definitely a no-brainer. I'm riding a Spesh Tricross disc at the mo but it's a wee bit heavy for my liking so I'm waiting for Shimano to bring out a hydraulic road brake then I'm going to sell it and build my perfect crosser with a carbon frame, lightweight brakes and capable of cutting it as a tourer, winter trainer and maybe even occasional cross racer. There's loads of good frames out there now.

At the moment I plan to race one more season with canti's then when the big boys bring out proper integrated hydraulic brakes/shifters, (2013), I'll change. At that point it will most likely be electronic shifting as well.

My Tricross is canti-only so, as with globalti, I'll wait until there is a consistent approach and then change the bike. It's all 9-speed kit as well so it'd be best to change everything together rather than upgrade to 10-sp now.

I think things are going to get expensive!

if buying a frame with disc mounts now do you lot reckon it will be easy enough to throw some proper disc brakes on once they are available?

I race (well, haven't this year but do normally) and use my cross bike for commuting. I would have disks as my next purchase. I'm not in any rush to go out an get them though as cantis work ok.

I've no doubt that I'll change eventually but I'm in no rush, particularly as I bought a load of non-disc wheels before this season.

Already done!

[IMG] [/IMG]

I am in the final assembly process of my CX bike, which is fitted out with Shimano XT deore DCLs on 160 rotors.
Mavic Open Pro disc only wheels.
I have riser bars too.

I will not be participating in any UCI controlled / ranked races, etc.

However, my next bike will be a road bike, and I am going to have hydraulic brakes, even if I have to design and commission the lever assemblies.

No
Mainly race and would cost a fortune in new wheels
I'm hoping that I can get a couple of extra sets of tub wheels cheap as more people switch over though
I really haven't found braking to be a big issue on any of the cross courses

Quite a few then.
I can see their value though for road/touring and trail use, but for racing I like as minimal as possible in both weight and effectiveness.

Still I wouldn't turn down a bike with them, and my only dislikes are the way you suffer friction when grime gets in them and the aesthetics...the look dreadful.

Edit; and of course wheels, it's handy to have a spare set, perhaps a cheap training set and the ability to scrounge a wheel race day.

After riding a Dirty Disco and the 'other bike' about TodCross at the weekend I have to say I am sold on the idea.

Have already build tubs on disc hubs as it was the next inevitable step, once it gets lighter I will be all over it.

whats the "other bike"

Of course if we ride faster the mud doesn't stick....have you noticed that.

not a hope, i've never had an issue with good ol' froggslegs. just take the time to set them up well. however, i would try a set of tektro cr720.

and the aesthetics...the look dreadful.

Most things take a bit of getting used to, i'm sure the same was said of mountain bikes.

Word on the street is...road bikes will have them in the pro teams very shortly:

http://road.cc/content/news/49670-2012-cycling-trends-predictions

Road discs

This little lot is getting hidden away in 2012

4. Next up a technical prediction. Almost feel bad about calling this one a prediction, but I'm sticking it in to keep the average up… all that talk about disc brakes on road bikes? It ain't talk.

The UCI technical bods may not have had any enquiries on the matter but they'd better start sharpening their pencils and designing the relevant sticker cos they are definitely coming. After all, they opened the door for all of this when they approved disc brakes for cross something everybody else and especially the bike industry spotted from the get-go.

Our industry spies tell us new road disc set ups have already been tested by some bike manufacturers, oh and get this while we've all been banging on about low weight and 140 or even 120 rotors… they're actually going to be more like 180, with maybe 160 on the back. On a road bike it isn't just about outright stopping power: it's modulation, reliability and dependability in all weathers that counts. As the man we spoke to told us, the heat from an alpine descent just won't dissipate through a small rotor. Of course you can make big discs light and there's no reason disc brakes on a road bike should be at the cost of any real weight penalty at all particularly when most top end bikes are already easily lighter than the UCI's 6.8Kg limit.

Some people aren't going to like all this but basically disc brakes are simply another braking system and one that works better than the ones we've currently got. At the end of the day good brakes help you go faster, and while they might look odd at first, like other stuff that really works they won't look odd for long.

Bonus prediction: Looking slightly further ahead, we wouldn't be surprised to see some sort of integrated set up of a Di2/hydraulic brake kind at Eurobike this year, technically it surely isn't a biggie. Indeed sticking the master cylinder in to the hoods and then hooking the brakes up to the 'brain' opens up the possibility of ABS braking for bikes… which would be nice.

The only thing we don't know is which of the big three component manufacturers is going to be first to market. We can probably discount Campagnolo because they don't really have the background in this technology for bikes. That leaves SRAM and Shimano both of whom definitely do – SRAM own Avid. SRAM definitely have the incentive to pull something out of the bag because they have been totally left behind on electronic shifting, and word is that they have a big surprise in store when new Red launches in February, maybe this is it. Problem is if they are launching an integrated hydraulic road set up where will they put the master cylinder cos the lever hoods are full of mechanical bits - something that isn't a problem for Shimano – unless SRAM shock us all by going electric too.

As we reported last month there are persistent rumours that the new Dura Ace Di2 will go 11 speed this year and disc brake compatible. Knowing Shimano if it's them we'll all be sworn to silence. So look out for a lot of nodding and winking come their 2012 press briefing in a few weeks time.

Hard graft this divination lark but pausing only for a revivifying slurp of flat prosecco I'll press on. Next it's events.

whats the "other bike"

Something that won't happen, don't worry about it 🙂

I can see their value though for road/touring and trail use, but for racing I like as minimal as possible in both weight and effectiveness.

After my first and only cross race my bog standard shimano cantis were more than enough however knocking about on mtb trails a set of discs would be nice

Mine's been all-disc for years.

when you've used them, especially when you still ride your first set of still-true rims, it's hard to imagine any other way.

I shall not be requesting drums on my next Golf, that's for sure!

Will spare disk wheels work? Presumably they're gonna have to be identical hubs to get spacing perfectly between the pads. At least with cantis I know swapping wheels with similar rims is no hassle.

Will spare disk wheels work? Presumably they're gonna have to be identical hubs to get spacing perfectly between the pads. At least with cantis I know swapping wheels with similar rims is no hassle.

use disc spacers. thats what i do for my mtb.

yes definitely.. peak district road descents behind cars are terrifying on cantis when you're 95kg!

Not CX racing but the commuter is now disc'd up (it's a CX bike if that counts). The pure joy of decent brakes....

I agree with flip, discs on road bikes are coming and thanks heavens for that.

Flip.

Good post. Glad I won't have to sort my own bespoke hydraulic brake solution for my next road bike.
😉

I also agree that now I ride only with hydraulic disc brakes, I do not wish to go back to cable stuff.
Sorry, but it just aint funny in the wet, down hill, and you grab all the brake you can, yet you are still convinced its the [i]end[/i].

Flip
Can't help think that disc are being driven by the general market. The manufacturers see a profit opportunity, but need the pros to be using them before they arrive at their 'Ta Daaaa' moment.

use disc spacers. thats what i do for my mtb.

I think, I know I am talking about pit wheel changes. Just means more new wheels.

Edit. It'll be interesting to see how the likes of Cervelo deal with the weight/strength and aero issues that discs will bring.
You can probably tell I don't want this to happen. I really really think that this is driven by want not need by completely useless folk who can't ride and are mechanically inept.
This forum is full of threads like my road brakes are crap, my discs don't work and so on. It's not the gear it's the riders.
Technology used to come from inside the sport, now it seems the bike industry has to follow the demands of happy shoppers.
Hmmmph

Can't help think that disc are being driven by the general market. The manufacturers see a profit opportunity, but need the pros to be using them before they arrive at their 'Ta Daaaa' moment.

I totally agree, i like caliper brakes on road bikes and won't swap to discs i see little need for them. But i think they are coming anyway.

is there a clear "best" cx cani brake then?

top 3?

I really really think that this is driven by want not need by completely useless folk who can't ride and are mechanically inept.

I'm not convinced hydraulic disc brakes are required though, I'd prefer a lot of R&D went into cable discs - I'm sure they could make something better than the BB7's (and even they are pretty good).

Beru F1 systems already did it on the F001
Di2 with Master cylinders incorporated under the hoods, the Calipers were lovely too.
Had a good look at them where they were machined, after it was in the public domain.

I can't see the need full stop, but I'm looking at from the 'racing' bike side.
Right now riders can sit two inches off a wheel at race pace, they can descend an Alp without hardly touching the brakes. And current dual pivot brakes have the ideal balance of performance...not too much and not too little.
If I think about the few times the bunch has crashed in front of me, the brakes have been superb, that balance of power almost acts like a cycle ABS system. I think you'd get a few moments if you grabbed a fistfull of disc in the heat of the moment.

Oh and turn up at a 4th cat race with your brakes QR open thinking that's how they should be and I'll punch you in the face.....

Very very common...the brakes thing, not me punching people.

Agree that some people are clueless on the QR thing however a lot of people also do it because they have different rim widths on their training wheels, if they're narrower then they'll need the QR open when using their race wheels and the performance will be the same.

Oldgit.

You're full of shyt.

wet weather braking, and not grinding away a rim brake surface on the wheel, are just two very valid reasons for the bike scene to rise to the challenge and get hydraulic brakes onto road bikes.
All that BS about skill is just that. [b]BS[/b]
A gifted rider will still pull away from an [i]average[/i] rider, whatever braking / frame / tyre / any new tech / applications prevails.
Numpty !.

Bet you use to cry out against the introduction air filled tyres too.
🙄

solo - I think you have some very odd understanding of road biking - I normally get about 12-15000 miles out of a pair of wheels, used in all conditions, even in the wet. I usually get about 5,000 miles out of brake blocks. There really, really isn't any need to have hydraulic disc brakes on road bikes - commuter and touring bikes maybe, but not fast road bikes.
To change means throwing away a lot of stuff - frames/ forks and wheels - and changing the designs of things substantially to make them work with the new system.
I moved to discs on mtbs in 98 so its not like I don't adopt useful technology, and I've had a disc'd road bike for the last 2 years - it requires much more maintenance than any of my other road bikes or cx bikes to either stop the pads rubbing or just not working at all.

A gifted rider will still pull away from an average rider, whatever braking / frame / tyre / any new tech / applications prevails.

Exactly...no need for discs then? that we agree on.

And what has rim wear to do with it? just buy new rims. Rims are consumables, they wear out. I can't see the point of re designing frames, developing totally new braking systems just to save a pair of rims.
Is it the cost? how many new rims could you buy instead of a new frame, new wheels and new hydro/STI system?

aP I had a cross bike with HYDRO brakes up and running, great on trails and stuff.
Total overkill for cross, but then we are Southern crossers and we don't all ow that dreadful Northern weather down here.
Wet weather braking isn't a problem at all. Never raced and I doubt I ever will race where the riders are worried about their brakes.

I'd still prefer discs on road bikes but I certainly wouldn't spend money specifically for it - eg if I had a choice of two road bikes that were the same price and spec'd the same other than having disc or standard road brakes, I'd go for the discs.

Why - discs are fundamentally better but for road bikes, as oldgit pointed out, the benefits are much less than say for a cross bike or mtbs.

Solo you're doing yourself no favours resorting to personal insults 🙄

Bickering aside, it probably will have it's day. But when pro teams ( or so I'm lead to believe)clean out the grease from stock hubs and exchange it for light oil to get less friction, they'd surely have a full retard if a speck of grit came between a disc and pad. I've had that on my MTB. It would make the worth of something like a Dura Ace hub zero.

Anybody tried the Hope V-Twin or TRP hydro/cable brakes yet?

If so care to give a review? Not seen any reviews yet or even in the flesh....

aracer, why the contradiction?

oldgit - Member
I really really think that this is driven by want not need by completely useless folk who can't ride and are mechanically inept.

You run cantis on your mtb of course? EDIT 🙄

FURTHER EDIT: Your own bike choices are of course driven by need only, so you have no suspension, clipless pedals, gears, freewheel or pneumatic tyres? 🙄

Been on discs for the past 5 years now on my crosser after a 6 months ownership of canti crosser I would never go back. I was using a full set of pads every ride and a wheel rebuild every three months due to worn out rims.
Sure if I was trundling round a bit of parkland for 60 mins canties are fine but here in the real with big hills,kids to feed and bill to pay it makes more sense oh and wanting to stop consistently every lap ect ect discs are the only way.
Just wait they will appear in the pro peloton before long when the weight is sorted.

You run cantis on your mtb of course? EDIT

Not anymore, I was given some discs but as I only wanted an MTB for racing I was considering Avid Black Ops prior to that.
But honestly MTB'ing is a world away from cyclocross.

Perhaps it's different depending on where you are. When I race XC it's stop start, bottlenecks on singletrack, bombholes, switchbacks etc so discs make good sense. Cross races seem far more fluid, easy overtaking, wide courses and few obstacles to ride around and hard braking is positively avoided.
Road racing, for me it's simply not an issue. Wet or dry the racing is as close and fast.
I also save a bike for racing so I wear very little out. I did the thing of fart arsing about turning MTBs into road bikes and crossers into MTBs, but came to this conclusion; road bike for the road, cross bike for cross and an mtb for the trails.
Two things. How come the need for discs on crossers coincides with cross bikes becoming popular with punters, a year ago no one gave a toss.
How will discs benefit the likes of Cavendish and the pro peloton?

Anybody tried the Hope V-Twin or TRP hydro/cable brakes yet?

If so care to give a review? Not seen any reviews yet or even in the flesh....

Yes, me. as mentioned earlier in the thread. not sure I should so's not to be accused having a (not so) hidden agenda, but, It makes me laugh the way people have their preconceptions about how they will/won't work despite never having tried them so....

I have been using the Hope V-twin system all season, paired with a Deda full carbon frameset and std carbon rims built onto std 6 bolt 24h hubs with 140mm rotors front and rear.

You'll be lucky to see many in the flesh, so far only about 50 sets have been made.

The best way to describe the power would be a well set up cantilever on an alu rim in the dry with Gore cables, not chuck you over the bars with the slightest touch of the lever type power. The difference being however, it's the same everytime you pull the lever no matter what you've been riding through, how dry/wet/icy/muddy the ground is.

Weight, is approx 200g per bike extra over our old set ups, this is all in converter, rotors, calipers everything.

Drag, not noticable, set them up well at the start and you can't tell anything is different, do you think the National Champion (despite his sponsor) would run discs if they were slowing him down through drag or extra weight? NO! we run the V-twins by choice and not at the request of our sponsors to sell more units, infact they hadn't even started making them when we requested them and all our carbon wheels had to be built for us from scratch.

Do you suffer from screeching brakes, fork judder, in effective brakes on carbon rims in the wet, not with these puppies! I used to suffer terrible fork judder on my old bikes due to the size of them, I used to have to start braking ages before I wanted to slow down just in case, not anymore!

Give it a couple of years and they'll be everywhere. our bikes got a LOT of interest when at the Super prestige races in Belgium, mechanics from both Sven Nijs and Stybar came over and took photo's and asked a lot of questions, the pro's want discs no matter what people think!

I reckon you're just making all that up. Race with me in top 30 and you'll be perfectly fine on cantis.

I reckon you're just making all that up. Race with me in top 30 and you'll be perfectly fine on cantis.

😆

🙄

Not top thirty, in the 30s I meant.

I machined some Shimano hydros last year, it did mean having to use bar end shifters (just like cx racing in the 70's) but the results on like for like routes were fantastic. I never raced it because I had to build it around a rather heavy Croix De fer, but it made certain terrain far easier to handle and therefore faster, but at my level it's always been about the tyre. You would lap me so perhaps requirements of top riders 'are' far greater.

My goats up because this thread sort of reminds me about the one where folk thought better riders should be handicapped, and generally lots of comments about changing stuff in sports they don't even compete in.

oldgit - Member
Two things. How come the need for discs on crossers coincides with cross bikes becoming popular with punters, a year ago no one gave a toss.
How will discs benefit the likes of Cavendish and the pro peloton?

I gave a toss 5 years ago, as did many others, you still don't see the benefits so there will be no convincing you for a couple of years until you get them and rave about them...you're only a few years behind the UCI tho.

The same way as dual pivots, indexing, clipless pedals...

I'd agree that a lot of this is down to the recent popularity of cx bikes outside of cx racing, and people's perceptions (right or wrong) of the braking power available. A lot of new 'cx' riders will have come from an MTB background so aren't familiar with cantis and their differences/inefficiencies (witness the thread the other day about road bike brakes).

But, when someone like Blazin-saddles says he won't go back, then I'm going to listen. I'm not going to rush out and change - I'll wait until full hydros are available and de-bugged as my current bikes and wheels will want replacing by then.

Cheers Blazing excellent stuff and on my list to buy.

Blazing - Any chance you could do us a favour as i cant see one in the flesh yet? Could you measure how far the reservoir extends in front of the steerer tube. I only run an 80mm stem and im worried the reservoir is quite long once attached to the bracket and will extend in front of the stem making cable routing from the bar tape awkard.

Cheers again if you can.

Sorry, do the 5x Elite World CX Championships, Numerous World Cup and International races, 12 National Championships and 12 years of National Trophies I've ridden in obviously don't give me any insight into cyclocross racing. my mistake. I'll go now!

C'mon 5 years ago? I'd not even heard mention of it three years ago. Since then this is the first season I've seen them in use. One disc on a (i think) Genesis 'aided' rider and a few blokes on Boardmans. Talking about my region BTW.

Rik. I've not seen the Hope version, but there were images around of the TRP converter. I'm guessing as TRP already have an interest in cross braking products they'll be keen to get something out PDQ

200g! that's peanuts. Is that a unique caliper and disc? Is anything imminent? as I'm racing a new frame next season. Still torn between as technically advanced as poss or fun loving luddite steel to suit my aging powers 😕

I'd agree that a lot of this is down to the recent popularity of cx bikes

Isn't that just down to the time of year?? i remember talking about it in 2005 on here.

I've had BB7's on my commuter for a year now and they've been great. I don't know if anyone can remember the start of 2010 but it literally rained every day in January and was very glad of them. They do sometimes rub and take a bit of fiddling, but that seem to be peculiar to road BB7's, the ones on the MTB don't need to the same adjusting.

i've no idea about CX/road racing scene. Would like to try CX though.

It is cross season.

And anyway how the **** am I going to sell my canti cross frame in the ads now 😡

Not sure if anyones seen it but Dave Moulton didn't seem in favour of them either (in 2010):
http://davesbikeblog.squarespace.com/blog/2010/10/5/why-disc-brakes.html

It'll make the wheels heavier due to tangential rather than radial spokes!

[img] [/img]
🙂

[img] [/img]

TRP
[img] [/img]

How will they benefit the pros ? reduced rotational mass on the rim ,better aerodynamics have you noticed how rims are getting fatter? If the breaking surface is removed the designer if free to play with all that extra space You could pull the fork legs intowards the tyre and reduce profile no worrying about mounting the calliper at the top of the fork no heating up rims we can all remember Lance doing a bit of CX to avoid Beloki whose rim had over heated and melted the tub glue dumping him on the tarmac and again better consistent breaking in the wet and that just for the road boys.

oldgit - those pics give me the horn 😉

HoratioHufnagel - Member
Not sure if anyones seen it but Dave Moulton didn't seem in favour of them either (in 2010):
http://davesbikeblog.squarespace.com/blog/2010/10/5/why-disc-brakes.html

It'll make the wheels heavier due to tangential rather than radial spokes!

Jebus, what a plum.

Yep toroidial rims.

You bunch of ******* thank God I get a good discount on Van Dessels. Sorry Sam the swingometer is starting to point toward the disc Gim & Trombones.

I guess 'oldgit' is extracting the michael and an alias I'm not familiar with.

I'll do some measurements for those that want to know tomorrow.

They use a std MTB x2 race calliper and 140mm lightweight floating rotor.

Those pics of the hope v-twin do look like is pretty long in length. That looks like a 120mm stem so with an 80mm it does look like the cable routing will be awkward with a stem that short.

Cheers Blazin - 'waits with baited breath'........

Nah just a grumpy old bastard and weary of changes. Cynical and rightly so of developments especialy until I know who's benefit they're for. And always keeping an eye out for anything that might bastardize the sport.

Anyway you are Mick Ives and I claim my £5 🙂

Mick Ives! How very dare you 😉

Yes it's a 120mm stem, 80mm might make things harder but v brake noodles or Nokon type cables would help, ours are a bit trial and error as no one had built them up before so we'd no one to copy!