[Closed] How do I rationalise when out of breath on a ride (anxiety content)

Ride more, get fitter is the most sensible answer - sorry but learning to breathe better is kind of treating the symptoms

Go to the swimming pool and practice doing lengths under water.

Do you have asthma?

Make a will, at least your family will be provided for.....

I used to get that from lack of fitness, was told by my PE teacher to breathe out as if I was blowing out a candle, this makes you breathe in again afterwards automatically, it sounds counter-intuitive, but it worked for me, until I got fit and learned to enjoy the 'my lungs are about to explode' sensation...

Don't ride up it quite as hard as you are doing so you're not so out of breath when you get to the top? Can't be right. Seems a bit too simple to me........

I'd say see someone and talk about the anxiety first, really is no fun.

Derek i have done some pilates recently to help control my breathing. It has helped dramatically in panicky stressful situations.

Essentially breathe in for 5 seconds through your nose, try to fill your lungs and beyond! Hold your breath as long as possible, and then slowly breathe out for 7 seconds.

The out breath needs to be slow and controlled.

Do this a few times each day - i do it in 5 rep bursts. Also helps in situations where you need to calm down sharpish, e.g. meetings an so on

don't stop at the top for a rest/recover. seriously, keep riding - you can recover even whilst still riding at a slowwww pace. not only will this reduce your breathing more gradually it will hopefully take your mind off the fact that you're over-exhaling and it will also get you fitter.

If you know you're going to get out of breath and you know you're going to recover you've already rationalised it.

If you're really freakin' out then maybe you need to go through a physical process to relieve the anxiety. i.e. once your breathing goes above a certain rate for a period of time. stop until it falls below a given rate. As you get a bit more confident you can up the max breathing rate or the duration you sustain that rate for. Knowing you've done exactly the same thing previously without dying might help to calm your fears a little.

You're not going to die from getting out of breath. You might pass out* but I can't imagine you'll die unless you have some underlying condition that you're not aware of**.

* the uncontrolled fall from passing out could kill you if you were riding along a cliff edge or fell very unfortunately.

[edit]
** Just read that back and thought that the potential for an unknown underlying condition is going to do little to ease any anxiety. Oh well.

I'd get to a Dr. You may have asthma, and even if you dont its normal to feel like your choking.

Happened to me once though in a race in winter, basically forgot to keep control of my breathing and cold air irritated my air way just after getting rid of a cold. Wasnt a pleasent experience when all of a sudden I started feeling like I was choking. I went to see a GP and he said to lay off the bike for a bit, if that didnt work, probably exercise enduced asthma as my peak flow was way above avg. Luckily after a bit off the bike I was ok.

If its happening every ride have you thought about slowing down a bit though and getting fitter?

Thanks for the replies so far. I don't have asthma. My use of the word choke was wrong. I am not gasping and making honking noises or anything! My airway is fine. I guess I'm not too used to needing to take big breaths and am just getting anxious about it. I don't stop riding and all is well in under a minute. It's just not a nice minute.

I know the feeling you're talking about - I got it in the woods section of the Mega last year. A bit of race adrenaline had me pedalling harder than normal, still at altitude, hotter than normal because of the armour and the full face. I got a bit panicky and had to stop and take the helmet and sit down for a second.

The reason I ask about asthma is that I used to have it and it still crops up occasionally. This didn't feel exactly the same, but I wondered if there might be some link. I've certainly had the same panicky feeling during an asthma attack and it's absolutely horrible.

EDIT: Also, being anxious actually makes breathing more difficult, as you tense up. Next time it happens, try just shutting your eyes and making a deliberate mental effort to relax for a few seconds. That may settle things down. Harder than it sounds though...

You've gotta start thinking, "well nothing bad happened last time", each time you'll find the anxiety is easier to deal with. There are some really good books which will help you take a different outlook.

I used to breathe a lot more heavily than my mates on the climbs, I put this down to riding a bit harder than them to be the first up, nothing more than that. A few years ago I was diagnosed with asthma of the exercise induced flavour. Whaddya know, my self diagnosis and ignoring of the symptoms was wrong?

Have a word with yourself.

"after a longish, steep, out-of-saddle road climb, I get really panicky thinking I'm going to choke/not get enough air/die basically"

Have you ever seen this happen to anyone else? If not, can you think why? Can you accept that it's as unlikely to happen to you on that basis? The human body is quite capable of ensuring that we get enough air into lungs without our interference - it does this by having us breathe without us having to think about breathing. The big breaths are a good thing - it's those that stop you choking/not getting enough air/dying etc.

I think the breathing advice given above is all a good idea.

It is important to understand that increased co2 causes panic - for obvious reasons, it isn't the lack of oxygen, which is why carbon monoxide is so dangerous as it replaces the co2 and despite lack of oxygen your panic reflex does not kick in and you suffocate painlessly..

So with that in mind it might help you to understand what is going on and how to control it.

One of my pals [s]is[/s] was asthmatic and he learned [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buteyko_method ]buteyko breathing[/url] which seems to have cured him (ANECDOTES DO NOT MAKE SCIENCE). I also have a mate who was angry at work often, and we discovered he held his breath whilst reading, he learned to control it and was much less angry...

I once had a period of breathlessness, which turned out to be caused by diet-related anaemia - a course of iron tablets sorted it. My advice would be to see a doctor and if you check out OK then it's simply a fitness issue, I guess.

Given your follow up it all sounds perfectly normal, nobody's comfortable once they push their heart rate right up to the max. If your not as fit as you could be then you are going to hit that point earlier than you might like. Still nothing to worry about.

Take a look at the last minute of the video below. World class athletes in looking absolutely shagged after hard efforts shocker. The only difference between them and the rest of us is that we reach our limits sooner and recover slower due to being less fit.

If you're an anxious person generally then I would get some help with that underlying condition. Either GP or therapist, or maybe something like Yoga - which I find more relaxing than any other exercise. Also has the side benefit of helping make you a stronger rider as it improves strength and flexibility...
Being out of breath is normal from hard exercise so to a degree you'll have to get used to it anyway...
HTH

Can't believe I've not been MTFUed yet!

Seriously though - thanks for your replies. Reading betwixt the lines, I'm just gonna have to get used to this until it eases - i.e. when I get fitter. I'm new to roadbiking so my CV system isn't used to fast, out-of-saddle, uphill stuff. I'm fine on my mountain bike as that's usually more of a constant leg burning grind on long climbs. My CV capacity can accommodate that.

Deep breath....

MTFU*

* Wouldn't want to disappoint.

Yoga breathing is a very good idea.

Might be worth thinking about guided imagery or visualisation to help you see gasping as breathing hard, and being a sign your body is working hard, as opposed to your breathing being out of control and frightening.
All about reframing the sensation in your head which is not as easy as just being aware that this is the case, you need to internalzse it.

It is what lots of serious athletes do to improve performance allegedly.
Course the other option as stated above is to MTFU.

[i]carbon monoxide is so dangerous as it replaces the co2[/i]

Just wanted to clarify that carbon monoxide doesnt replace co2 (carbon DIoxide) What happens is due to its instability, its takes on an additional oxygen molecule thus creating co2. This has the result of removing oxygen from the air it ocupies making it hard to breath.

So it actually replaces the oxygen.

I also suffer from 'attacks' at the top of climbs sometimes. Its better than it used to be as I have learned to ride to my limits of fitness. As Ive got fitter I can ride harder without suffering.

I've heard that oil of snake works for this type of ailment.

do you have a coffee before you ride? this can cause the whole breathless panic thing.

Another thought... maybe you should ride so hard that you do actually pass out. You'll live.

i get this from time to time, it's not pleasant.

i've adopted a few mechanisms that seem to help :

i stop, take off my helmet, gloves and shades, take a few deep breaths, try and talk for a bit to take my mind away from the panic, once my breathing has relaxed, i drink a little. take your time before getting back on the bike.

Happened to me once though in a race in winter, basically forgot to keep control of my breathing and cold air irritated my air way just after getting rid of a cold.

This happened to me at a big road race. It was raining when I tried to warm up. I was also experimenting with caffeine (i'd be trying more and more amounts of it) and i think i took too much.

On the 2nd lap i was coughing up this liquid off my lungs really bad. By the 5th lap i got dropped on a climb and felt terrible the whole way. Finished the race and got back to the HQ and was told i looked like death.

Still not sure what happened but i did get a real anxious feeling and i must have coughed up about half a litre of white/redish liquid off my lungs

Just wanted to clarify that carbon monoxide doesnt replace co2 (carbon DIoxide) What happens is due to its instability, its takes on an additional oxygen molecule thus creating co2. This has the result of removing oxygen from the air it ocupies making it hard to breath

CO2 stimulates the stretch receptors in your lungs which hurts.

Breathing is easy - in and out - repeat as necessary.

You'll know if you're about to pass out as your vision will narrow to a tunnel and you'll see red stars flashing - at least that's what happened to me.

Anaemia, asthma, and anxiety sound like reasonable reasons to me.

You could take up the trumpet, that's supposed to be good for lung capacity.

[i]er no it's nothing to do with CO[/i]

Sorry. forgot to mention that CO has no place in this discussion as there is no source.

markyg82 - I have no doubt that you are correct - but it still has the same effect, ie no co2, so no panic reaction. So in cases of co poisoning if there is no co2 in your lungs you are not aware that you might be suffocating - similar with other gases that suffocate people.

i_did_dab I think you misunderstood the context, we were talking about co in like gas boiler failures etc. I was using it as an example to illustrate the role of co2 in anxiety/panic.

edit - marky got there first..

As an old asthmatic the elastic part of my lungs(I believe? ), the it that puts the oxygen into the blood is only at 75% efficiency. The rest of my lung function figures are over 100% 😆

Have been doing the breathing exercises as described as a above long before they became known as the buteyko system, or at least before I had heard of them. My son was, also asthmatic was into rowing and suffered from the same symptoms until he got the hang of the breathing technique. Also before a race and on the start line he would start doing some breathing exercise to get his lungs working before the start which is quite explosive.

A mate has the same problem and he is the anxious type and starts to worry about the symptoms before they start!! We have worked on his breathing and he is also getting better but at 50+ , 6` 5" and 16st he can only keep riding to get fitter.

I also have high blood pressure which does`nt help.

Maybe getting a heart rate monitor and working with the zones would help, did for me when I was doing time trials. That was before I found out I had high BP which maybe exlpained some of my dizziness 💡
Just knock back the effort a bit till you get fitter
[url= http://www.roadcycling.com/training/Climbing_to_the_Top_002486.shtml ]short article[/url]
[url= http://easycycling.com/?p=2640 ]another one[/url]
[url= http://www.hcs.harvard.edu/huca/training_skills_hillclimb.htm ]and another[/url]
No idea if they are any good but take out of them what you can

its takes on an additional oxygen molecule thus creating co2.

Soooo at the risk of getting the piss taken, anyone else got to the top of a hill breathing very very hard and taken a slightly too long swig from their camelbak and get a funny feeling [i]down there[/i]?

I guess it's due to lack of oxygen and that's what them there autoasphyxiation-ers do for kicks.

Aye, don`t do it now. Once bitten, twice shy 💡

[i]is chemical gibberish [/i]

How so? I may have the terminology wrong but the science is correct surely?

Derek, do you smoke?

You'll know if you're about to pass out as your vision will narrow to a tunnel and you'll see red stars flashing - at least that's what happened to me.

I get purple swirlies in my vision when i'm getting towards passing out, circuit training used to be 15minutes of agony, then 45 minutes of swirlies...

Old Chinese proverb. "To breathe in first you must breathe fully out".
Most of the time we only exchange the top 20% of our lung volume and the what's left is poorly oxygenated or stale air. Here's a little experiment, breathe in now and see how long you can hold your breath for. Your average Joe will manage around 30 seconds before the strong desire to breathe kicks in. Now try breathing in and out for about 2 minutes and make a conscious effort to try and breathe from the diaphragm so that you are fully exchanging your lung contents from the bottom to the top. Now fully exhale and then inhale as much as you can. You should easily manage a minute breath hold.
Now back to the OP's issue. When you get stressed breathe out as much as you can and try to fill the full lung volume when inhaling. Do this repeatedly whilst "thinking bad air out good air in"
If it doesn't work then how about moving to Holland, it's pretty flat there!

How so?

TSY - I smoke 5 a day.

I_did_dab/markyg82 at the risk of being a bit radical maybe this is irrelevant? I only raised it to point out the role of CO2 in panic and yes I was bit loose with the words/terminology, but this pedantry will not help the OP.

Derek... I don't need to tell you what to do...

I smoke 5 a day

stop and it could take 6mths or more and a lot of pain before you get/notice the benefits 🙄
Used to ride with a mate who had to have a smoke at the top of every hill. Between that and a crates of wife beater he now no longer cycles 🙄

A family member is a sports psychologist. They recommend using the concept of "self-efficacy." In lay-mans terms, people who have high self-efficacy KNOW that they can perform a certain task. People who have low self-efficacy DO NOT THINK they can perform a certain task.

To create high self-efficacy, you have to look at your past performance ie have you attempted the task before and have you been successful.

In your example you would have to think carefully and remember a time when you undertook a gut-busting hill climb. Remember how it felt when you got to the top. Remember the searing pains in your legs, the thump of your heart as it tried to rip its way out of your chest cavity, the little bit of white drool that dribbled down the side of your cheek and the over-riding thought that death was imminent and that you had to kiss goodbye to your favourite hamster Joey.

Then, and this is the important part, ask yourself this question. "Did I actually die?" If you didnt then there is a good chance that you wont die if you find yourself in the same situation again.

If you did die (even for a few seconds) then it may be a good idea to have yourself checked out at the nearest A&E.

This technique really helped me when I got freaked out when using pelican crossings and sharp kitchen utensils. (but not at the same time.)

Good luck with the cycling. Remember its not dying on the bike you have to worry about, its the monsters hiding behind the curtains and under your bed that you should be concerned about.

Have a nice one.

It seems the question being asked here isn't "how do I stop getting short of puff after physical exertion", but "how do I stop panicking about being short of puff", no?

Basic management of panic disorder, and problems like yours, is to rationalise your thinking and challenge the 'damaging thoughts':
You worry that getting short of breath after a hill means that you might then die...you need to remind yourself (out loud if need be) that "this is natural, has happened many times before, and I didn't die then". Also, control the breathing - turn short sharp breaths into long, deep, slower breaths - this also will calm you down.
Keep reminding yourself that [b]you aren't going to die, and that increased resp rate is natural after exertion,and not a sign of illness...[/b]

Hope this helps!

DrP

Smoke some weed, does wonder for paranoia 😈

DrP and SimonSemtex are on the money for my personal issue. I am not fit enough for physiological factors like CO, CO2, gas exchange efficiency etc. to be part of my problem. It is managing the INEVITABLE shortness of breath that occurs on exertion.

I did find the "blowiing out a candle" thing worked to re-boot my breathing.

Thanks chaps.
Best regards fromn Holland 😛

Derek,

Have you tried breathing in/out by using your stomach/diaphragm instead of sucking/blowing using your chest.

That horrible raspy noise when you are out of breath disappears completely and personally I also find it relaxes me a lot more on the bike.