[Closed] "Horse riders and cyclists go to war over bridleways"

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I do love that the article is illustrated by a picture of a horse rider and some cyclists on a road.

Are cyclists to be banned from there too?

So, just to make sure I don't spook a horse, every time this scot ventures south for a bit of riding, I shall ride only footpaths from now on. Never seen a single horse on Ill bell yesterday....

Flame me but I can see a horse riders point of view.

More and more cyclists, ride quick and round bends etc- you can startle a horse.

You literally have to stop on a bike and wait for a horse to slowly ride past. Crazy but we are dealing with an animal here. If a horse is startled guess what? The human being ontop could have life changing injuries.

It only takes a few berks to dis-proportionally cause a bigger problem.

Surrey Hills does have its element of go-get em/cut throat Londoners on expensive bikes maybe.....

We aren't 1 ton of metal but the effect is the same - a horse is startled/spooked by a sudden noise, close or riding past quickly.

If I'm approaching one on my bike I'll pull to the side and WAIT. If I'm approaching from the rear (far worse) I'll start talking, let the horse actually turn abit to clock/see me before I reach them).

Like a impatient driver on the road we can have the exact affect (difference in size means **** all to a horse unlike us humans).

...you can startle a horse.

Which can also be done by looking at them funny.

[i]Which can also be done by looking at them funny. [/i]

This applies to baby robins too.

Got tangled (not quite literally) up in a '2 horses on narrow bridleway between fences startled by bull protecting his cows in field beside it' scenario a week or two back. I reckon the safest place locally was on top of the horses tbh. They can't half go backwards fast when they want to.

Flame me but I can see a horse riders point of view.

I also think they have have a point, I just think they are over exaggerating the point or rather over exaggerating the level of risk caused by cyclists on the Surrey Hills to horse riders. Not saying there hasn't been any but I can't remember any previous examples in the Surrey Hills of a horse rider being injured due to a mountain biker and given how much use the Surrey Hills sees from mountain bikers.

To summarise the article; Horse riders can't control their horses, therefore mountain bikes shouldn't be allowed near them.

I can't control my bicycle on the road, so can we please ban all the cars, motorbikes, vans, buses & lorries.

I'd argue that if a horse is that easily spooked it shouldn't be on a public right of way.
Might be a dog, or a baby robin taking its first flight that rounds a corner and spooks dobbin....

The riders round my way have all seemed to be quite good, and the horses are used to bikes. Slowing down and saying hello seems to go a long way.

It's as bad as the car vs bike argument. Everyone simply needs more common sense. Ride to the conditions.

If you can't see round a corner, then assume the worst and slow down. Applies to cars on the road and bikes on a trail (legal or otherwise)

But equally if you can't control the horse, get off the public right of way

nuke I think the particular point the horse riders are making in the Surrey hills is the proximity of the new trail/where it sits etc next to where horses have always used.

Ever ridden a horse? Not a pony on the seafront but one that is big enough for you/your height? Its hardwork on rough ground (thats not tarmac)- and feels quite high up....Great fun though 🙂

love the comment "Cyclist should dismount and walk past when they come up behind a horse".

There's a complete lack of education on this subject and it's not helped by the rambler led "why didn't you ring your bell?" brigade. If you see a horse ahead of you call out "Hello!" or something similar until you see the horse has noticed you.

If you don't make sufficient noise then the horse may not hear you until the last minute, at which point it will be spooked. If you just ring a bell then the horse may be scared by the weird scary clattery up close but surprisingly silent vehicle with a strange bell dinging - speak to the horse like a human and it will realise you're a human which it isn't scared of.

Horses have very good hearing but if there's a strong headwind they'll have much more trouble hearing you. Even if the horse sees you before you see it you need to speak to reassure it that you're a human and not a scary bicycle.

Most horse riders will also have noticed you in good time if you take this approach - I don't think there's much you can do for the gormless/deaf ones who fail to notice that the horse has spotted a bike, get surprised themselves and in the process scare the horse! But fortunately they're in the minority.

"SAY HELLO TO HORSES!" would be a good message to all cyclists.

Unfortunately the horsey people who've kicked up this fuss have failed to make use of their platform to educate cyclists and are just trying to ban them - which will never work in practice.

[i]"SAY HELLO TO HORSES!" would be a good message to all cyclists.[/i]

I talk to all the farm animals I meet.

Really.

Although I try to remember not to on group rides.

Mostly they just give me a funny look and I get spooked.

I find that the horse knows there's a bike in the vicinity way earlier than the horse rider 🙂

Speaking to the horse rider helps, the horse then associates the large thing on wheels with a human.

I've been riding mountain bikes on bridleways for years and have never had a problem with horses or their riders. But I have starting viewing such issues from a horse riders perspective (my girlfriend rides and has even got me out once or twice!). I never knew, for instance that people on bikes scare more horses than people or even cars...something about them not understanding that it's a person. Some horses also struggle with kids on parents shoulders as apparently they see a person with two heads :). A spooked horse gallops! A little common sense and awareness is all that's required. We're all probably guilty of giving walkers 'just enough' space on bridleways (I know I certainly am) when we know that they can see us. It would be easy to approach passing horses in the same way. Mountain bikers and roadies just need to show a lttle more caution when they see a horse.

Is this really a massive problem in the New Forest? I see horse riders all the time when I'm biking over Cannock Chase and have never seen a horse spooked (or even a disgruntled rider - they're usually quite cheery).

Maybe they need to increase the number of cyclists over the New Forest, so that they're not so surprising and alien! 😛

I love this country

..."You're all too fat and costing the NHS a fortune - Everybody start riding bikes."

..."You cant ride there its a footpath"
..."You cant ride there its a bridleway"
..."No we wont invest any money in cycle lanes"

People from all walks of life should understand and respect people from other walks of life shocker!!

As with all of these very 2 way people with horses need to consider that other people use the shared spaces, people on 2 wheels do to. People building infrastructure need to understand that lots of people use the space.

If you see a horse ahead of you call out "Hello!" or something similar until you see the horse has noticed you.

Agreed. This is what I try and do after a chat with a horse rider about what would be best to do.

nuke I think the particular point the horse riders are making in the Surrey hills is the proximity of the new trail/where it sits etc next to where horses have always used.

Yep and there's always been a trail (Personal Hygiene) down from the tower that intersects with the BW in question for as long as I can remember...again, not saying there has been any incidents but I can't recall any incidents on that trail relating to horse riders, only incident I can recall on that trail was when I fell and hurt my thumb on the chute section 😥

Personally I can't even remember seeing any horses on the BW in question and I use it a fair bit

It seems the obvious solution, is to get horses into cycling.

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I see horse riders all the time when I'm biking over Cannock Chase and have never seen a horse spooked (or even a disgruntled rider - they're usually quite cheery).

edit: having said that the other week there were a couple of them riding the wrong way on the trail towards Watch Out Trolls. They were very apologetic 😆

Not like D-Bag:
http://www.pinkbike.com/news/It-Pays-to-be-Courteous-video-2013.html

Is this really a massive problem in the New Forest?

disgruntled rider - they're usually quite cheery.).

Maybe they need to increase the number of cyclists over the New Forest, so that they're not so surprising and alien!

Much of the NF is boggy and unsuitable for bikes and seeing a trench dug by someone's wheels is bad PR but the same observer takes no offence at all at massive hoof-churned quagmires in the same location

Most horse riders I meet are pretty friendly so long as you're not acting like a cock. Slowing down, saying hello and smiling seem to be very effective (surprise, surprise). Talking to the horse can work too - some of them get freaked by bikes but calm down once they realize the spinny whirry thing is just another human. Mind you, they're not exactly rational. When I overtook a horse last weekend I said hello to the rider before I caught up and she said it was OK to pass, the reason the horse was acting jumpy was because it was scared of the two shetland ponies in the field 😆

War? awwwww... fair enough.

Just in the new forest or do I need to attack horsists I encounter in Yorkshire as well? Can anyone provide me with a copy of the articles of war to which we should abiding. Are any forms of weaponry considered not cricket?

I should probably get some new body armour...

People from all walks of life should understand and respect people from other walks of life shocker!!

As with all of these very 2 way people with horses need to consider that other people use the shared spaces, people on 2 wheels do to. People building infrastructure need to understand that lots of people use the space.

Hush that voice of reason you!

There's talk of War War! WAR!!!

The most useful bit of advice was from a LBS owner in the lakes before a large number of us set off on a demo ride.
"Be offensively polite out there, it's really hard to get annoyed at really polite nice people"

It works and for those still grumpy and angry it makes them look worse.

Flame me but

But equally if you can't control the horse, get off the public right of way

How about riders who crash or go off-line due to speed or lack of skillz? : )

Strange animals, I've seen a horse that used to take people out day after day paralysed in fear by a crisp packet on the other side of the yard. Also seen horses wade into crowds of rioting Chelsea fans.

Awe fek this again.. 🙄

If you are ridin out, meet a horse rider, give em' the right of way.
Ask the horse rider if it's ok to pass, they will offer thanks and say Yes or No, if No wait until they say Yes.

I meet thousands of horsey types on my routes, the lanes and bridleways are covered in them, and quite right too..

It's all our countryside, just give a bit of a shite and help everyone else out there have a good time yeah..

Dear God 🙄

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Have to say, this is a problem we have less of because our land access laws aren't designed to funnel all the traffic into a too-small network of trails. But I still get 2 things fairly often...

One is, groups of horses where they don't know what they want you to do. One person complains because you go too fast, another because you go too slow. One because you rang a bell or called out, startling the horses, the other because you approached quietly, startling the horses. That sort of thing. There's no concensus from the horsyclists as to what they want me to do, so how can I do it? I try and act courteously but it's like rolling a dice

The other is unskilled riders out on public paths- instructors taking novices out when they're barely in any control, so any distraction or event at all causes problems. That one probably speaks for itself.

One person complains because you go too fast, another because you go too slow. One because you [s]rang a bell or [/s]called out, startling the horses, the other because you approached quietly, startling the horses.

grauniad desperate for a story? dropping ot bbc levels there.

probably the most cheerful people I meet on the trails.

dog walkers with extended leads (or no leads in the nature reserve areas 👿 ), nordic walkist troops, and families going for a sunday afternoon stroll with granddma and the grandkids on the #13 cycle path thru the forest are probably those I have most issue with.

i'd say most horse riders/horses i meet are absolutely fine, however i've seen what can happen when they loose control and it's seriously not worth it for the rider (i've worked with people who had to give up horses due to being thrown off badly, one had a broken back 🙁 ) also after the only and ever time i've ridden a full size horse i would not want to be on a spooked one!

over at chopwell a few months ago i was riding up one of the fireroads that link between trails, there was a lad riding a horse on another fireroad coming up a junction with the one i was one. he saw me at distance, i slowed to walking pace and shouted 'alright' to him as i approached the junction and he shouted 'alreet' back, then the horse clocked me, reared up with the lad going off the back, horse turned and stood on the poor lads stomach with a front leg 😕 😯 made my stomach wretch! he still had hold of the reins and managed to jump up and control the horse, i dumped the bike, ran over and checked he was ok and he was pretty startled. turned out it was the first time the horse had been out of a field and it didn't even have a saddle on! up close with the horse it was cool, so we reckoned it just doesn't like bikes and went off our own ways

however a couple of times i've seen utter dicks (actually women/girls in small groups) riding horses on the Derwent Walk and Tanfield Railway multi use paths, galloping at speed round blind corners and past walkers/cyclists (including me!). yeah going fast and not giving people space on a bike is one thing, but doing that on a horse is beyond stupid!!! does anyone know what the law is with galloping/speed of horses on bridleways? do they have STRAW-VA?

One thing I have noticed in my area is the number of middle aged women riding fancy horses with every known accessory. Rather like us middle aged cyclists! My sister in law is one such. She says she always wanted to do this when a kid but couldn't afford it and now she can. However if one's fancy bicycle gets frisky you can just get off and leave it, a frisky horse needs controlling.

tbh- you can't go far wrong with announcing that you are there in a polite and friendly way, and if it's tight [u]ask[/u] the rider to let you know when to pass. I see the same riders fairly regularly, so I want to get on in a friendly manner.

I rather agree with this chap in the comments:

A first world issue if ever I saw it but beyond that I've always wondered why people in the modern age ride horses. Ok well I get why but it's kind of like those people who jump off really high shit and glide down....each to their own but when something inevitably goes wrong there should be no complaints. You a 70kg and let's face it, physically vulnerable human are riding a giant 500kg animal that has the ability to crush your tiny bones in one brief moment. And the horse certainly isn't to blame its a feeling animal capable of fight or flight and being scared by noises or fast movement etc.

The rest of the world is obviously aware of this and try's to accommodate the people who still choose to ride horses but how far can others be responsible for the risk of someone who chooses to ride the animal knowing their propensity for reactionary movement when frightened?

I wonder how many of these people would get in a vehicle if they knew maybe once in a few hundred hours it might just decide to stop responding or dart left or right across lanes?

I'd much rather see horses not used for transport or sport, they are beautiful creatures that man has callously exploited for thousands of years but the world we live in means this is unlikely to ever cease. That being said I think those who still continue to ride them need to accept the responsibility of their own actions a bit more and accept the risk without seeking to lay that burden at others door so often.

They're just maintaining a stock of hosses, plus the basic skills to utilise them for when the oil runs out 😉

Interesting point about the bell. I commute on v narrow country lanes and always started dinging the bell (one of those cr@p freebie ping bells) a good couple hundred yards from the rear of the horse. I presumed I was doing it for the benefit of the rider and not the animal itself.
Every day's a school day. I shall start talking to them more from now on.

Yeah - I did ask a horse rider years ago about this and she said that talking loudly, (but not shouting) to announce your presence from a reasonable distance back was preferable to bells. Done this ever since.

You have to wonder if a:

"SAY HELLO TO HORSES!"

campaign could make a useful difference? Like one of those newfangled twitbook viral thingies...

#sayhellotohorses

jameso - Member

Bells aren't the right thing to use at all - horses need to know you're a human and not 'something' they don't understand.

Kind of proves the point tbh, since I've had "Ring your bell" off some riders. Like mccett says it seems to be for the rider's benefit not the horse. Oh I've also had "don't talk to my horse, it'll confuse her" and from an instructor "please don't distract my pupils". It just feels like whatever you do, sometimes you should have done the opposite, you can ride past a group and have the first rider be delighted with you and the last rider furious.

Kind of proves the point tbh, since I've had "Ring your bell" off some riders. Like mccett says it seems to be for the rider's benefit not the horse. Oh I've also had "don't talk to my horse, it'll confuse her"

Unfortunately you get as many fools on horses as on bikes or in cars. And I suspect most of the horsey complainees are inexperienced middle-aged women who are somewhat scared of their horses (my MIL's yard is full of them!)

Good horse riders wouldn't say any of that rubbish.

#Say hellooooo to horses

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I posted a fairly detailed critique of mr Milton's claims of illegality [url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/surrey-hills-would-be-a-shame-if-all-that-hard-work-was-for-nothing#post-5860865 ]on here[/url] a few weeks ago

Some of the other claims made are simply outlandish [i]"jumping ramps above horses' heads, around an established sunken horse track" [/i]

in addition, the 'hangout' for Mr Milton and his friends (Horseytalk dot net) where you can see some of their letters - there is one contributor who is properly fruit loop, and writes in 'stream of conciousness' style in caps lock, who seems to have a particular bugbear in quoting random interpretations of pseudo legal jargonese, and constantly repeating that riding bicycles offroad is illegal under Sched 7 CROW 2000 and S34 Road Traffic Act 1988, even though both these acts specifically refer to mechanically propelled vehicles rather than bicycles.

MTBers (or anyone else) tear arseing around a corner and spooking a horse is a bad thing - obviously.
Thing is

Some horses also struggle with kids on parents shoulders as apparently they see a person with two heads

Horseists are too big a lobby group to upset tho.

See horse riders frequently on my commute, we seem to get along ok, was only recently reminded of the importance of shouting hello (on here?) ie human sounds not a bell.

Old story - paper filling for The Guardian
Just ride sensibly
No need for militancy on any side - riders, horses, cars etc - just a bit of common sense

I always slow for horses whether in a car, on a bike or even running. It's just courtesy and common sense.

Horseists are too big a lobby group to upset tho.

but they have more right to the trails than a 29'er does

The bit I've never quite understood is that there are some horses who are incredibly docile and wouldn't notice if the bomb hit, they'd just get back to scratching themselves on the charred remains of a fence post. These are not the horses which people ride, instead they ride the ones who are the equivalent of that guy in the corner of a wetherspoons with facial scars, a twitch and a collection of knitting needles up his sleeve.

Surely horses can be bred which are both reasonably passive and still fun to ride?

but they have more right to the trails than a 29'er does

they are a bigger lobbying group coz they are more organised, mtbers probably outnumber them but are lazy/antisocial sods, I can live with that. One legit trail user have more right than another (ignoring the who gives way to whom bit) seems wrong.

and the "we've been here longer" argument doesn't wash, bikes have been on roads longer than cars but cyclists still get massively marginalised.

Have to say, this is a problem we have less of because our land access laws aren't designed to funnel all the traffic into a too-small network of trails.

[img] http://ducatiforum.co.uk/forum/attachments/stock-photo-2634771-hitting-a-nail-on-the-head-1-jpg.8074/ [/img]

#Say hellooooo to horses

but they have more right to the trails than a 29'er does

why?

they are a bigger lobbying group coz they are more organised,

The bit I've never quite understood is that there are some horses who are incredibly docile and wouldn't notice if the bomb hit, they'd just get back to scratching themselves on the charred remains of a fence post. These are not the horses which people ride...

They're the ones that most people buying a horse want to buy - "bombproof" is the word they tend to use in ads! Unfortunately stick a scared idiot on the top of said bombproof horse and the horse (being a very perceptive herd animal) notices that the animal on top of it is scared so there must be something to be scared of. Horses survive by running away - staying cool when your rider is not being cool is totally against all their instincts.

or else they have wealthier and more influnetial friends and neighbours

They're the ones that most people buying a horse want to buy - "bombproof" is the word they tend to use in ads! Unfortunately stick a scared idiot on the top of said bombproof horse and the horse (being a very perceptive herd animal) notices that the animal on top of it is scared so there must be something to be scared of. Horses survive by running away - staying cool when your rider is not being cool is totally against all their instincts.

That makes sense. I've only ever ridden horses as part of trekking groups and I guess they're used to having nervous idiots on board.

lemonysam: the docile ones are probably the lively ones from ten years ago but have been "put out to grass" to live out their days.

Horses have individual traits - one round us gets spooked by aubretia, probably its smell - others aren't bothered by petrol driven lawnmowers. Ideally the owner knows (most) of the traits of the animal they are riding but it may be that it isn't their horse so don't know how it reacts to novel stimulii.

why?

ninfan - Member

there is one contributor who is properly fruit loop, and writes in 'stream of conciousness' style in caps lock,

Does he call everyone zombie maggots, or accuse people of shooting him with lazorz?

and the "we've been here longer" argument doesn't wash,

This is Britain. There's a queue, you know!

Some horse owners do own large swathes of land and are in the right place to exercise a bit of leverage, but the majority of them are normal people. It's just the same as any other pressure group that the only voices you hear are the loud over-opinionated ones.

after 15 years riding around Surrey Hills I've only come across one spooked horse, even the rider then said she was trying to get it used to [u]people[/u]. I've never come across a militant rider on the trails, all of this hoorahh is down to about 3 people who seem to be getting a stupid amount of airtime. The article is old, it's referencing old issues that have been rectified (i.e. the blind spots have had fencing put around). Its a slow news day for Granuid..

Northwind - nah, he's better than that - here's a choice example, a letter to the county solicitor:

I HAVE THE LR DOCUMENTS WHICH ARE BY-WAY OF DIS-CREDITED LEASES.

STILL YOU FAIL TO DISCLOSE THE "PROPER" LEASE AGREEMENTS" FROM NT, WHICH OF COURSE THEY HAVE ISSED A DIS-CLAIMER.

READ THE APPLICATION BY JANE BOWDEN, THE APPLICATION ALTHOUGH MADE UNDER FALSE REPRESENTATION WAS ONLY FOR THE BARROWS.

AS THE LGO DO NOT INVESTIGATE FRAUD, THE CLAIMS BY ME HAVE NOW GONE BACK TO THE FRAUD SQUAD TO INVESTIGATE THE LEASEING OF COMMONERS RIGHTS FOR PROFIT.

AS THE SIGNAGE IS ALSO UNLAWFUL, STEPS ARE BEING TAKEN UNDER SCHEDULE 4 PARA 6..

CONTACT THE REDISTRATION AUTHORITIES HELEN GILBERT, SHE HAS STATED THERE IS NO, DEFINITIVE OWNER REGISTERED TO FRENSHAM COMMON CL87, THIS WILL BE THEAT THE CENTRE OF ANY COURT HEARING.

We should get him over here, he'd be a valuable addition to the community.

There are lots of horses ridden around the north downs where I live. Very few are skilled and courteous enough not to cause themselves all manner of problems.

Most seem unnable to control their beast which leads to panic, loss of bladder control and lots of yelling. This upsets the poor nag as it doesn't like it's passenger to yell or excrete onto it.

Others stand still and shout for the path to be cleared so that they can make the poor horsey run along quickly for a bit.

One woman (described harshly but accurately as a wrinkled old witch by my brother) wanted us to dismount and stand in the brambles and bracken so they could pass by on a country lane as, and I guote "this horse kicked at one of you cyclists last week so you'd better move!"

Quite rediculous really, if my bike randomly attacked dog walkers I'd be forced to destroy it! They should also be made to pick up all that poo.

Here in the rural idyll that is Ilkeston we are blessed with miles of bridleways, and an understanding community of horse riders. Never had a problem on the whole. Given that most of the horse riders where jodhpurs and strappy vest tops to show off their tattoos, it's often more traumatic for the cyclists when we meet.

Though occassionally when I see my mates haring round bends I wonder what might happen if there was a horse rider coming the other way.

Personally I think the person in "control" of the half tonne animal that can kick people to death bears the greater responsibility.

That being said Rule #1 still applies

Doesn't a lot of this fall into the category of just being courteous to other trail users?

When faced with horses, I normal slow down, and keep to a safe distance until the rider has noticed me and then pass or get off and wait for them to be clear. But then, I don't use Strava.

Only time I've had bother was when some madwoman started berating me about her horse being scared of bikes, while I was off the bike and sat on the wall by a gate having a drink. I did have to point out the southern section of the Towneley possibly wasn't a great choice of place to be riding it, then.

Edit:

Personally I think the person in "control" of the half tonne animal that can kick people to death bears the greater responsibility.

Agreed, but I've seen some pretty horrendous horse related injuries in the course of my job, and I'd rather not feel responsible for another one.

When faced with horses, I normal slow down, and keep to a safe distance until the rider has noticed me and then pass or get off and wait for them to be clear. But then, I don't use Strava.

As I Strava rider I aim for the heads, oh hang on I don't.

Back to rule 1
Don't be a dick

[quote=mwleeds ]A spooked horse gallops!

Could have done with some cyclists to spook some of the horses I've ridden.

[quote=chiefgrooveguru ]The bit I've never quite understood is that there are some horses who are incredibly docile and wouldn't notice if the bomb hit, they'd just get back to scratching themselves on the charred remains of a fence post. These are not the horses which people ride...
They're the ones that most people buying a horse want to buy - "bombproof" is the word they tend to use in ads!

Not that I've ever bought a horse, or am ever likely to, but IME those which have been described to me as "bombproof" or "docile" are just lazy, and could do with a bit of spooking (see above).

Then again whilst I haven't done much horseriding I'm not your typical middle aged woman out for a gentle trot - got mostly taught to ride on a retired top level showjumper which could shift a bit given enough space.

As I Strava rider I aim for the heads, oh hang on I don't.

I'd obviously missed the 😛 smiley off the end...

Back to rule 1
Don't be a dick

This

[/quotePersonally I think the person in "control" of the half tonne animal that can kick people to death bears the greater responsibility.]

Totally agree. Common sense applies to all trail users. What would possess a novice horse rider to take a scared animal down a steep narrow trail covered in tyre tracks?

I used to ride horses when I was younger.

I don't think you can say just control your animal like it is a dog. Most dogs are small people can control them with a lead. A horse is very big and can be spooked easily.

When I see them when I'm riding I always make sure I pass at a sensible speed and in a sensible manner. I know if I was on that horse it is what I would want cyclists to do.

Have to say, this is a problem we have less of because our land access laws aren't designed to funnel all the traffic into a too-small network of trails.

re bells for the rider, fair point but I think the best action around horses is what works for most or the norm. There's people that want you to do what only they seem to think is reasonable or normal but you can't let that affect how you react to the rest.
I used to ride horses when I was younger, while I also rode MTBs. Bells really aren't a help and will spook some horses, slowing down to say hi as you approach, saying hi again if they don't hear you, won't. Or if it does the horse and owner have issues and it's their responsibility to manage that. You won't have any problems as you slowed right down and gave space, right? )

I hate bells, and always say 'Hello' to other riders, walkers and horses (and BB robins).

It's about respect to other users. You would never drive fast or rev your engine when passing a horse in a car, so why on a bike.

I'm kind of sitting on the fence on this one.

I was riding on Pitch Hill a couple of years ago. There's a steep, rooty trail over there that leads down onto a bridleway (I think its called Root Of All Evil on strava). It's divided into two sections - one short, sharp descent, which then levels off, then there's a drop off in to the second section, which is full of roots and loose rocks down to the fireroad junction below.

I hit the drop off, and just as I committed I saw that there was a horse and rider down on the bridleway. Straight away I could see that the horse was startled, and so I managed to brake and kind of managed to lie the bike down without doing myself too much harm(actually managed to burp the front tyre clean off the rim in the process).

When I got up I could see the horse further down the bridleway with no rider. Then the female rider pulled herself out of a ditch which ran next to the bridleway.

Fortunately she was unhurt, and was actually blaming herself - saying that the horse had been easily spooked all day. However, I felt pretty crap about it as I felt she had fallen a long way from the top of the horse to the bottom of the ditch, and had she landed awkwardly, the situation could have been a lot worse.

Since then though, I am a bit more careful on blind singletrack, leading to fireroads. I'm a good enough rider, with good enough brakes to avoid hitting someone (I hope), but these things do get startled, and its not like controlling a dog.

Scott - one of the key factors there is of course that if a trail is properly made, and the trail and crossing point etc are designed to scrub speed and give adequate sight lines - then the risk of exactly what you describe is reduced.

Its the unofficial trails that have been 'ridden in' without planning or design that cause the problems, not the ones that have been designed to minimise them - and thats why this whole 'campaign' misses the mark entirely, as what you see is the landowner doing something to reduce the problems that are already there, not create new ones.

ninfan - yes, that is a good point. The trail I was on was certainly not a 'manufactured' trail and is more of simply a fall line.

Unfortunately this falls once again into that modern problem of not understanding the difference between "perceived" risk, and "actual" risk.

The horse riders perceive there to be a risk, that MTBers could cause an accident when someone gets hurt. And they are correct.

BUT, the actual risk includes the probability of it actually occurring.

So, to date, how many people have been injured by horses getting spooked by MTBers in the whole of the UK in say the last 20 years.

Until that figure is know, this is more hot air from people with too much time on their hands!

And then, we get to that thorny issue of personal responsibility. If you think it is too risky to ride your horse (or bike) for fear of getting hurt, then you must stop doing that. It is not for anyone else to make that decision for you.