MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
Yesterday as I rode down a forestry commission designated mountain bike trail I saw two people walking on the trail ahead of me. I went onto the grass verge as I approached to give them a wide berth, but didn’t reduce my speed. As I was coming alongside, one walker shouted to the other to get out of the way, which caused her to jump off the trail and right into my path. I braked as hard as I could, but hit her before coming off and hitting the ground quite hard. Luckily neither of us were badly hurt. She got a sore knee and I’ve tweaked my wrist. I might have said something rude about the fact that there were miles of trails there that weren’t for mountain bikes, and her friend said that I should have shouted to them from further up the trail to say I was coming. It was all fairly good natured, but it could have worked out a lot worse.
In hindsight I feel quite bad about it, as had it been anywhere else I would have slowed right down behind walkers. Whether or not I was in the right, it could have ended in tragedy. Anyone else had similar experiences? Was I being an arse?
Saw thread title and thought...is that an instruction?
(opens packet of Hob Nobs)
Yes, you were an arse. No need to pile into them if you had seen them.
Your remorse suggest you were a bit. Easy to be tied up in the moment on the trail in a way you wouldn’t be on a paved dual use cycle path. Glad you’re both OK. Could have been very serious.
You didn't let them know you were there and caused a panic resulting in the collision. Reflect on this and shout a warning in future.
I thought the title was also an instruction - I know I upset a few folk on here but I didn't think it would result in an incitement to me getting thumped 🙂
Is the fact she’s withdrawing her pension important?
Ooo, it's like one of those AITA threads off Reddit...YTA
Cant pretend though that havent been in a similar situation (although never hit anyone) when you're flowing down a nice trail with the adrenaline going and then you meet a walker but you don't drop as much speed or go as wide as you really should
Remember that what ever walkers are doing they will always jump to the opposite side when you call out, and if they are side by side they will both swap over.
Always stop, it might be a pain but it's a lot easier in the long run.
Anything slower than me on the trail, be it waymarked bikes only or otherwise, I always slow down and announce my presence with a loud 'excuse me please'
If it is a walker on a bike trail, I do normally say 'you're not supposed to be here, this is bikes only'. Most of the time it is met with nothing but, I've done my bit and nobody got injured or upset.
On public routes (ie not cycle trails) I generally use a Timber bell. Even that is occasionally missed, usually by runners with headphones in. In which case I slow down and still startle them. Have little sympathy for such runners, they should be alert, although I still slow down and give them a wide berth.
Sure it's annoying if you meet walkers on a nice flowy section but, we are just riding bikes, not answering an emergency calls.
Ah, it's an accident, no real harm, everyone happy, just forget it and use it as a warning for future, in 30 years of biking, one thing has always been true, people are unpredictable, either jumping in your way like this woman did, or taking umbrage at you telling them you're approaching, best bet is always slow down to walking pace and be pleasant, then if they're being arsey you can feel better about being arsey back 😁
I do normally slow right down and often get off and wait on shared trails. It was certainly a lesson learned the hard way. <br /><br />
painoFull Member<br />Is the fact she’s withdrawing her pension important?<br /><br />
No. But she was quite elderly, which made me all the more conscious of how it could have turned out.
It sounds like the mountain bike equivalent of a close pass by a car on road. Maybe you think they shouldn't be there but I'd always slow down, make them aware and be polite. I do ride a lot a shared trails and there's a right way and a wrong way to go about it. Slow down, be polite, smile is my mantra. I would never say you are not supposed to be here - probably as it's something I hear even when I have every right to be. I may give advice about being aware bikes can be going fast and not expect walkers on a designated bike trail, so just be visible and cautious. We all like to explore right?
Hmmmm. I think this is a bit like close passing a cyclist and hitting them when they swerve around a pothole. Driver takes a chance and doesn't leave a safety margin.
Saying she shouldn't be there is a bit like saying you shouldn't be cycling on the road when there is a perfectly good cycle path. No walking signs on a cycling route are probably no more than advisory in the eyes of the law.
On the flip side, if it's a proper graded route at a bike park you could liken it to wandering about on a motorway so the driver could be seen to be less at fault.
Avoiding hitting walkers is the best way to prevent trails being closed to cyclists. Making sure that walkers know you're there and stopping and dismounting just to show courtesy is the smart long-term thing. Yelling "Strava" and ploughing on at full speed is what gets trails closed.
I have never needed to"stop and dismount". Just let them know I am there in plenty of time for them to react and slow down as needed.
My approach to seeing anything ahead that is alive and capable of movement is to assure that it might be stupid and that being potentially stupid does not in any way impede it’s capability to find a way to hurt me.
Yes, I had a near miss with a wild boar. There were two of them on a fast fire road section. They saw me and bolted off the side of the road, but each chose a different side. Then one panicked and decided to follow the other so it jumped back onto the road right in front of me. Missed me by metres rather than inches, but still scared the living shit out of me.
Seeing as you had time to change course and consciously didn't slow down I'd say that was a bit of a dick move, regardless of who was in the right. Even if you had still hit them it would have been at a slower speed.
Have had a few close calls with walkers over the years riding that trail centres so know how quickly it can suddenly happen. Was riding the original Twrch trail at Cwmcarn the week after it officially opened and came down the final descent and there was a smooth drop going round a right hand kink as you got back to the car park with the view slightly blocked by a big bush (this was before the last section was reprofiled when they finished the car park a few months later). Behind this bush was a flat area where the builders had stored the gravel used to build it and a family had decided to set up a picnic on this spot. As it was quiet they had enough time to just about settle in right in time for me and the other riders I was with to come through their picnic at waist height. When I say through I mean smashing through their table in mid air! Incredibly lucky we didn't take them all out and that the only damage was a flat front tyre of the first rider, a smashed picnic table and their food and drink scattered everywhere. Cue a massive argument about who was in the wrong that was only diffused by a NRW worker (then still Forestry Commission) coming along and sorting it all out.
Another was in Avoriaz in the French Alps, riding a boardwalk section that you came on to blind and fast. Was a bit of a surprise to see a group of German walkers in it and how well they scattered when the first rider yelled 'Velo!' at them. Sadly for them it was rather boggy on both sides so they got muddy. We stopped to help them out and make sure they were ok, well as good as we could as I had tagged on to a pair of Lithuanians for that lap and between the lot of us we only had a few common words to communicate with!
Even though you're on a dedicated bike trail still expect the unexpected.
People have a right to expect not to be unnecessarily assaulted wherever they are walking. If it was possible for you to stop (and it sounds like it was) and you didn’t, then I think you’d be liable if she was injured. Also it’s pretty antisocial to knock people down with your bike.
If it had been on a blind landing or similar then it may be different.
When not on a racetrack, you should always ride or drive at a speed where you’re able to stop within the distance that you can see IMO. To not be able to do so means that you’re not in control.
Pedestrians are more vulnerable than cyclusts in the Highway Code heirarchy, and I tend to take the same approach off road. I'd like to think I'd have slowed down/shouted before hitting them, but I wasn't there at the time, so who knows.
My normal view is you never go so fast that cannot stop in the distance you can see to be clear.
However, the one place I'd accept you should consider hooning it properly is on a dedicated mountain bike trail. There should be clear "No Entry" signs to stop people wandering up the trail, those that ignore it, well, volenti is still a defence I think.
I have a busy shared use tow path nearby that I use frequently. You preemptively win any arguments if you ping a bell at them multiple times, ideally starting as soon as they come into view, slowing down helps too.
I'd certainly have slowed down from what you described, walkers invariably panic and jump all over the place, better to be prepared to just stop.
Still everyone lived and presumably learned a little too.
If one learns to trackstand one doesn’t need to dismount.
In hindsight I feel quite bad about it, as had it been anywhere else I would have slowed right down behind walkers. Whether or not I was in the right, it could have ended in tragedy. Anyone else had similar experiences? Was I being an arse?
We all make stupid decisions, but just to be clear, if it had ended in tragedy (and that is really just about where her head landed rather than anything you did - so pure luck) you'd currently be sitting in a police station whilst the solicitor you just met explained the law on manslaughter to you.
On the flip side, if it’s a proper graded route at a bike park you could liken it to wandering about on a motorway so the driver could be seen to be less at fault.
A few weeks ago I drove along a 50mph section of the M8 in the dark when something my brain wouldn't quite process appeared in front of me in lane 1. As I got closer I realised it was a cyclist with no lights (but some reflective clothing), probably a chipped e-bike as it was doing ~20 mph and didn't look like a road bike. If I had chosen to blast past him and he'd wobbled into my path I don't think "he shouldn't have been there" would have made a great defence to the death by dangerous driving charge. I put my hazard lights on, dialled 999 and followed at a distance where I could stop but where I was warning other drivers of the hazard. He pulled off at the next exit and I continued on my way, no idea if the cops found him to issue some "advice". As soon as you see the hazard, whether in your car or on a bike, the onus is on you.
Was I being an arse?
It was a bad decision. Three possibilities on their part:
Either the signing was a bit crap and hence they missed it (or they managed to join between signs) and so should be treated like any other walker.
The signing was perfectly good but they missed it. In which case since they are unobservant best to be extra careful round them.
The signing was fine and they are just an arsehole who decided to walk on it to teach cyclists a lesson. In which case they are a liability to avoid.
(opens packet of Hob Nobs)
FIFY
Worthers originals or a boiled sweets covered in pocket/handbag fluff.Older people like those...
A bell is the best thing I’ve fitted to my bike this year.
I remember riding down Yoghurt Pots in the Surrey Hills and meeting a couple pushing a pram up the trail!
Expect the unexpected.
Walkers will always jump to the wrong side or split fire and jump both ways. <br />Get a a loud annoying bell, you can thank them after you’ve passed.
I really do need a bell now my new freewheel is so quiet. Can anyone recommend one?
I have a bell on all my bikes - the best small one is a spurcycle one ( actually looking at the add linked I might have a copy - I wouldn't pay that much) https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/bells-horns/spurcycle-bell-raw/ I also have a far eastern brass one that is really loud
the ones I find fail are the ones with a spring between the pinger and the mount - they fail
Saw thread title and thought…is that an instruction?<br /><br />
It’s up there with eat five a day, just behind the Ten Commandments
You can't just run people over, you were definatly being a dick, your decision making is very poor, learn from it, move on and stop seeking attention on here.
thats rather harsh fergusd
Don't be too hard on yourself, despite what many on here would have you believe, none of us are perfect 🙂
In the wise words of Elia Kazan (1909 - 2003), Turkish-born American Film and Theatre Director: "What's called a difficult decision is a difficult decision because either way you go there are penalties."
And "Good decisions come from experience. Experience comes from making bad decisions." - Mark Twain (1835 - 1910), American Novelist and Journalist.
Bloody walkers thinking they own the trails. Won't they think about your Strava?
You forgot to shout Strrrraaaaaavvvvaaa, didn't you?
In seriousness, I have mixed opinions about walkers on shared trails. They do seem to have an imposed opinion that they have the exclusive use of it with no comprehension that there may be other users that don't want them taking up a 4mtr wide piece of trail with two people. On the other hand, you probably should be skilled enough to not mow old dears down, however stupid they are
I treat walkers like people on horses, slow down and give them a wide berth, always make a noise to let them know I'm approaching, if they've not looked back I won't pass at any speed I can't stop abruptly at.
I really do need a bell now my new freewheel is so quiet. Can anyone recommend one?
I’d recommend the Timber bell. Though I can’t see it in the STW shop.
I’d also recommend the Lion Bell Works bell https://lionbellworks.co.uk/lb/index.php
Bells are great, until they antagonise and 'scare' walkers, used to get told off for aggressively ringing my bell on the canal path between Bath and BoA 🤣
Yep, you can’t win whatever you do.
I think you always have to take a look at these things from the alternate viewpoint. It's no different from when you get an unnecessary and dangerous close pass on the road, because you shouldn't be there and you run red lights, and yada, yada, yada. It doesn't really matter who is right or wrong, it's the same beliefs and justification processes that steer the actions. It's very probable they weren't aware they were on a dedicated mountain bike trail and were just enjoying the outdoors. Everyone will have a better day and the world will be a little better off if you slow down and treat people with respect.
Bad call on your part although at least you seem to know it. Ultimately the faster person should slow down or stop. Should be in full control. Even in a middle of a race if on normally public land as it will never be fully sign posted. If they had walked under the marking tape I would see things differently of course. I don't know any FC track with a no walkers sign and most don't even have directional impositions. May be stacks else where.
Several years ago hubby and I were riding down a section of trail at Penmachno. Even though all the exits have 'No entry to Walkers' signs', there were a couple of people hiking up. We stopped, explained that they must have 'accidentally' come off the fire road and 'accidentally', not seen the sign. All was well in the end, but had I not been riding that day (I'm much slower than hubby) it wouldn't have ended well.
OP luckily you've learnt a lesson and this won't happen again
Over the summer whilst out with my son we came across people walking along K-line at Hamsterley on a couple of occasions. One couple had missed the no entry sign and were grateful for the info. More worrying was a group of kids walking up the trail towards some of the fastest bits with blind drops - they didn’t seem that bothered when told that people come really fast along that section and might not see them. I think for the FC sites there’s always going to be a few who wander on to dedicated trails and the best approach where possible is to slow down and politely warn them of the dangers.
This reminds me of the time I knocked an old guy off his bike at FoD on the Verderers. Was waiting at the start of the descent for some gap between the rider Infront and an older guy came past and straight on to the trail Infront of us. We waited about 30 seconds and set off. I quickly caught the guy up and as the trail opened up to a straight line I shouted 'rider on your right' and overtook, just as he moved directly Infront of me. Nowhere to go and we both end up on the floor with him in worse condition and he lost his £2K hearing aid. Bit of back and forth between us and I spent 30 mins searching the mud for a brown hearing aid. Never found and when his younger riding partner appeared I was told that he probably lost it earlier in the ride and that's why he didn't hear me. He was already covered with a cut face from an earlier off.
Yeah, there were things I should have done differently, but shit happens and that old man should have moved out the way faster.
I think if there are walkers on the trail, then you have every right to knock them down and they should be grateful for it.
I'm all seriousness tho, you should have shouted out and slowed down, but sometimes these things just happen quickly. Big difference if it's on sanctioned and signed trails tho. If it's unsanctioned trails then walkers can be anywhere and you need to be able to stop before ploughing into anyone.
I like
"Excuse me, can I come past on your right hand side, thank you very much"
If they don't twitch at excuse me- headphones are in, slow right down.
The length of it gives time for people to place me, am I behind them, how fast am I moving.it gives people time to move out the way.
If they don't respond after two of those, they are not listening and will jump unexpectedly when they see my wheel come past.
I tried a bell, people jumped out the way, for scared, got cross and were everyone was annoyed.
This has two bits of politeness in, or four if I have to repeat myself.
I have had no trouble on the trails with this. A few scowls and a bunch of you should have a bell. But, critically, after people are out of my way.
that old man should have moved out the way faster.<br />
The rider in front should always have priority. You can see them, they can’t see you.
To be honest I don't do trail centres etc any more due to people like peter1979.
that old man should have moved out the way faster.
Bit douchey, you need to accept people of all skill levels will be on free public trails and your Strava times aren't more important than their safety.
My partner is very new to MTB and if you'd done that to her I'd have put you in the hospital frankly.
I think some people overestimate how clear and understandable their “onyarite” is to civilians wandering along a path. And as for bloody roadies doing their stupid little hand signals on the morning commute… grr
I sometimes do some duathlons and multi-sports events that have participants from lots of different formats of events on the course overlapping at the same time...i.e guys on 6k TT rigs aiming to qualify for some championship or another on the same course as people doing a 5k taster triathlon on their mates mountain bike or whatever.
One thing I've come to realise is that saying "on your right" in this scenario is probably more dangerous than not saying anything and just picking a spot as so many people go kind of rigid and then clunkily/instinctively move to *their* right.
Can't really blame them as I'm fairly sure when I did my first XC race years ago I think I did the same thing first time I heard it, so yeah extra caution needed really whenever random public people are involved.
but shit happens and that old man should have moved out the way faster.
what a idiot you are. You would be culbable for any injuries caused and damage to the bike. You are at fault for hitting him - simple as
Sense of humour seriously lacking in the STW community as always.
Absolutely pleased you avoid trail centres because of people like me, Bruce. I would hate to bump into you too.
Great thanks! nice to avoid you.
The troll wants fed more!
?
Thanks airvent, myname's not Frankly, and I seriously doubt you would put me in hospital even on your best day. But more importantly, It was an absolute accident, I helped the guy look for his hearing aid and we left on good terms, I overtook as he was going very slowly and the guy happened to wobble at the wrong time.
You lot must be an absolute pain to live with. Jesus! 😫
Slow Down, let them pass. Even if they are in the wrong.
I follow the Green, Amber and Red rules. Ask yourself:
Green: Move on in a happy state 🙂
Amber: Inner bitch and grump....Move on.
Red: Do something about it. Quite rare when you start thinking about it.
Nearly always Amber for me, life is to short.
PS: Get an ebike and do the trail again :-))))
But more importantly, It was an absolute accident
No it wasn't, you shouted at him, didn't give him a chance to act then rode into the back of him?
Or are you explaining it wrong because all I'm seeing here is an impatient knobber bashing someone off the trail because he couldnt be arsed to wait.
You said he should have gotten out the way faster, looking at your past posts don't you ride an eeb? Not surprised he couldn't get out the way quick enough if you were chasing him down on a motorised bike.
It was an absolute accident,
NO it wasn't. It was negligence on your behalf. Your actions led to YOU crashing into him. An accident is where is was unavoidable. this was perfectly avoidable if you have not behaved like Richard Cranium
If I were you I would invoke Hattersleys rule " when in a hole stop digging"
Damn I was hoping this was going to be the new version of punch a nazi. I was going to suggest a name change to Batter a Boomer.
It's ok, if things start going badly we can just distract you with werther's originals and make a run for it.
It’s ok, if things start going badly we can just distract you with werther’s originals and make a run for it.
Or throw them off the side of the trail in front of him, and overtake whilst he goes looking for them?
Incredible, not slowing down, or for that matter shouting a warning in plenty of time. But mainly the slowing down bit as many people potter along minding their own with earphones in.
.
Though the old dear will spend a number of weeks recuperating from that. A knee injury to the elderly isnt something they'll shrug off in a day or two.
And broken ribs have a nasty habit of becoming pneumonia and worse in the elderly population. I know of an old guy who took a tumble from his Honda C90, broke a few ribs and was His waiting room for a while, he did recover
dyna-tiFull Member
Incredible, not slowing down, or for that matter shouting a warning in plenty of time. But mainly the slowing down bit as many people potter along minding their own with earphones in..
Though the old dear will spend a number of weeks recuperating from that. A knee injury to the elderly isnt something they’ll shrug off in a day or two.
Just to be clear, I was not going fast enough to knock the woman off her feet. I did not mow her down, or run her over. When she unexpectedly jumped into my path I braked hard and bailed. She was certainly well enough to carry on with her walk, and once I’d dusted myself down and straightened my bars I passed them with a wave about 300m up the track.
You lot must be an absolute pain to live with.
That's what my wife tells me.
As for riding around walkers (even worse with dogs) it is just something that is a pain to be endured really. I ride on the road, get pissed off as the poorly treated vulnerable user so I can not really then go on gravel to avoid than and piss of the vulnerable users on the gravel roads.
I find a bell does actually work most of the time and don't get any aggression from using it. Some people pretend not to hear it though and they are probably the same dicks who will get back to their cars and then treat me badly on the road but nobody's know.
Hierarchy of users innit. It's our responsibility to avoid them, not the other way around. I've seen this image with Horses and cyclists swapped, and I think that's probs a better prespective
