[Closed] He's back in the news

Urgh why is he still being given screen time?

Psychopath

Oh him. You could have given those of us who don't care what he says a clue not to bother clicking.

A habitual cheater, and he think being banned is unfair. What a massive cock

yank: "Who the hell is this Bradley Wiggins?"

Brit: "A bit like Lance Armstrong but not a cheating c**t"

incredible quote.

Hmmm - I'm not so sure it's so clear cut - you could argue that he is actually being honest (yes I know it is too little too late and before the keyboard warriors start whining - I'm not justifying or agreeing with him!)

Playing devil's advocate here, but if we consider cycling (or any sport for that matter) as being purely entertainment. That is, it's not really essential to my life etc but I love to look in and watch and find it really entertaining, all he's doing is contributing to the spectacle.

Whether he's taken seriously or not, and whether you despise him and all he stands for is your choice. I've sort of come to look a the whole debacle as being akin to some sort of reality show - I don't like myself for this, but I enjoy watching it. A bit like watching Jeremy Kyle or Big Brother et al makes the wife feel a bit grubby and unclean, but she enjoys the spectacle all the same.

He's a roadie, who cares lol

[i]"I would want to change the man that did those things, maybe not the decision, but the way he acted," he continued.
"The way he treated people, the way he couldn't stop fighting. It was unacceptable, inexcusable."[/i]

Interesting that he choses to use the thrid person when talking about his experiences directly, but then reverts back to talking about himself when talking about re-habilitation and forgivness

[i]As for whether the world was ready to accept his return to public life, Armstrong said: "Selfishly, I would say 'yeah, we're getting close to that time'.[/i]

I suspect he has some way to go yet...

There's nothing new there. Most people made up their mind a long time ago. The interview just seems irrelevant.

I think Armstrong should just keep as low a profile as possible and not put himself back in front of the press. He comes over as a complete arsehole which, while to an extent forgiveable in those that are 100% focused on winning, doesn't really make it easy for folks to accept him back as having served his time.

I think Armstrong should just keep as low a profile as possible and not put himself back in front of the press.

I think he probably craves the limelight.

Dont blame him really. If your going to do alot of road riding then some form of drugs is going to needed.

He has brought a massively good contribution tothe sport regardless of his doping amongst others!

Why bring him up on it so far into the future after the event! Ffs, what's done is just that DONE!

I agree with where he's coming from, in a cycling career and team where there's pressure to perform and not much knowledge on damage of doping I assume back then.

We should be aware that with role models, it works both ways, they achieve, we learn that it can be done.
They fail, we learn that that's not the way it should be done from this point on. Simples in my eyes.

To put him down time and time again is not the way forward and to make an example of just him is a scandal in itself!
Bloody outrage imo.

Tbh I just think how much he has contributed to the sport. : )

Tbh I just think how much he has contributed to the sport. : )

Same old, same old from LA.

Multiple disingenuous attempts at evading the blame.

The man is a disgusting liar & now he's looking for sympathy!

An egomaniacal sociopath now acting the victim.

Disgusting.

Not changed in the slightest!

I meant by bringing the masses to apreciate the sport from when he started his career to a errmm certain point.

Maybe I'm easily led... Even though at times he does come across cocky and wanting empathy to his situation and what he found himself doing all those years ago.

Ok ok so he's not as awesome as the dude who jumped off at the edge of space down to
Earth but nothing could top that unless that was staged and never was real...!? ;-d

Ok ok so he's not as awesome as the dude who jumped off at the edge of space down to
Earth but nothing could top that unless that was staged and never was real...!? ;-d

He's not awesome at all! (LA that is)

He's a fekin bar steward of the highest order.

I don't mind him and yes I've read all the books, he's a sportsperson focused on winning, doing whatever it takes.

It's a common characteristic, some get rumbled, some don't, but lots of successful people leave a bit of carnage in their wake.

IMO he played the game well and won.

IMO he played the game well and won.

You mean cheating is ok as long as you don't get caught??

The man was content to ruin innocent lives in his quest for personal glory - he's despicable.

IMO he played the game well and won.

So what your saying is to be better than everyone else do what you have to.
Be it lie, take performance enhancing drug, lead by fear.
What a crock of poo.
Why not go riding with a pistol so if anyone's quicker than you just shoot them.
Or at least poison them before the race.

I'm a fan, don't care what you think TBH.

A guy doing what most others were doing, riding the same game like a great many others in an era that was fraught with Drug taking in many other sports too. I'd lift the ban if I had my way, he's confessed and should be given what all the others given when they confessed.

Glad he's still training, he paces out a few young up and comings and still puts 50% of his available time on the bike.

Don't like the bullying mind, he clearly was a proper hard and impossible man if you got on the wrong side of him, that I can't stand about him.

Heyho, each to their own.

I'm a fan, don't care what you think TBH.

You need to read [url= http://www.waterstones.com/waterstonesweb/products/david+walsh/seven+deadly+sins/9498681/ ]this: David Walsh, Seven Deadly Sins[/url]

You might learn something about the qualities of the man you admire...

The game then included peds, they achieve the same now by using more subtle methods.

He was just good at riding a bike and good managing the team. The reason the others were second is because they weren't as good at one Thing or the other.

I'll leave it to you though bash away at your keyboards all you like.

he's confessed and should be given what all the others given when they confessed.

because he was caught.

I'll leave it to you though bash away at your keyboards all you like.

& I'll leave you to your sad delusions - deal?

PS I know whose right....& it aint you.

The man was content to ruin innocent lives in his quest for personal glory

This is the real issue. He has a bit of a point when he says everyone else was doing drugs. I'm not aware of anyone else doing what he did to conceal it. That's the unforgivable part.

I think what a few of you aren't getting its the scale of the deception & the insidious, nasty bullying nature of the man. Nothing was considered beneath him, he would rubbish, intimidate & bully ANY who dared to challenge him.

Read that book.

It's in your best interests.

The cult of Lance Armstrong should & needs to be debunked - it's all built on lies.

Lebowski ..er.. dude, his ability to bother plonkers like you makes me admire him even more. You need to get over yourself and read some different books.

I really don't think mrlebowski is the plonker on this thread.

Lance is Still the king in my eyes, anyone who can come back from deaths door with cancer and better a field of CHEATS by cheating himself cancels its self out for me.
and I respect that he doesn't feel sorry for doing it Only the getting caught, if only everyone was really that honest with their Dishonesty.
unfortunately this world Loves a good witch hunt and He being the winner he is was the prime target, if some other peleton hero else was the 7 time winner then no one would bat an eyelid in his direction.
Cheating goes on in almost every professional sport and much of Amateur sport too, we all know that really but he is a great
Hate figure.
vive la Lance 🙂

So who here would cheat to win a race?

I do wish he would **** off.

Why is this being covered anyway?! Just ignore him.

Dont blame him really. If your going to do alot of road riding then some form of drugs is going to needed.

Only because other people had the same thought before him - 'because other people are doing it' is not an excuse.

Similarly - "That the way things are" is only true because of people's propensity to say "That's the way things are"

---

"The secret in life is not to fail because of adversity, but to succeed despite it"

I don't know who said that, but they were a better person than LA

" I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics: I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles." and "Who the **** keeps putting their used syringes in my can of coke ,that's for my used syringes,get your own dude!!!" ,two great lance quotes(I may have made one up).

It's not the cheating per se. It was the willingness to ride roughshod over any and all opposition or viewpoints and destroy people's reputations and, in some cases, careers so he could carry on cheating and by doing so winning.

If he had stuck to just cheating and taken it on the chin when he was caught then *maybe* he might deserve a chance a rehabilitation. But, as it stands he deserves nothing. Not even pity. He's a cock.

I have no issues with people disliking him, but i do hate the hypocrisy that prevails towards him (not aimed specifically at anyone on this thread btw)

As far as I'm aware most of the peleton were cheats, especially the good ones, and most by default then were also liars. Lance was this, and he was also a bully and a nasty sounding individual, but I fail to see why being a dick is a reason for a lifetime ban and your titles being stripped from history, whilst being a nice guy and cheating appears to warrant no more than slap on the wrist.

Sure punish him for breaking the rules but don't punishing him for being a total asshat.

So if he cheated his way to all his victories but was a nicer guy would that be easier to swallow?

I think what he did on the bike was amazing (drugs or no) and, as horrible people go, he doesn't even register on my radar.

I'm not certain that any narcissistic bully, deserves any more airtime than he's already been given.

He lied under oath. He got people sacked. He tried to insinuate that Greg Lemond was an alcoholic and had also cheated. He took/stole A LOT of money from sponsors and backers. His whole 'Livestrong' schtick was self-aggrandizing and self-promoting.
I can't honestly see how any sane person can hold him up as a hero or role model.

I don't see him as any worse than any other drug cheat. Most get 2 year bans, of 4 years, rarely life bans. Some, like Contador, get their past brushed under the carpet and continue to rack up titles.

I don't see him as any worse than any other drug cheat

I just can't understand that thinking. Surely the way he was so vocally anti drug and then bullied people (destroying careers along the way) to maintain his public image makes him worse?

ajantom.
its easy really, he personally generated over a billion in sponsorship/TV interest/bike sales and much more, so as far as Stealing money I think Not! all winners/yanks are bred to self promote and Anyone who can come back from cancer that's CANCER and perform against a field full of cheats AND WIN! then I doft my unjudgemental cap towards him 😉 Lol

He took/stole A LOT of money from sponsors and backers

he also made an awful lot of money for them as well. I very much doubt trek, US Postal and Oakley lost out because of their association with him.

Likewise you can criticise his charity work, but there is a flip side that he did provide inspiration to fellow cancer sufferers, whether you like it or not.

I personally could take him or leave him. There are plenty of dicks in life, i've met a number of particularly nasty, bullying individuals in my time. As someone above said he barely registers on my radar when it comes to 'bad people'.

Anyone who can come back from cancer that's CANCER

And steal money given to cancer, that's CANCER sufferers who desperately needed it.
He would charge an extraordinary fee to turn up at LIVESTRONG events. Not just the one time but every single time.

I don't see him as any worse than any other drug cheat. Most get 2 year bans, of 4 years, rarely life bans. Some, like Contador, get their past brushed under the carpet and continue to rack up titles.

That's what annoys me, the total hypocrisy and inconsistency of it all. Virenque cheated his way to 7 KOM Jerseys and he seems to have a primetime job of commentating for French TV on the TdF...

Lemond is no better to be honest, he's been banging on about being anti-doping but then he's in a car swanning up the Champs Elysees with Indurain and Hinault. Combine that with his comments last year that Pantani was one of the greatest ever cyclists... Hmm, bit two-faced of him there - is he anti-doping or just anti-Lance?

He lied under oath.

So did pretty much every rider, doctor, team manager caught in the last decade.

He got people sacked.

So did every team manager or doctor who told young riders that if they weren't willing to dope, if they didn't toe the team line then they'd be on the next plane home. How many promising careers ruined, how many young riders' dreams shattered but that no-one will ever hear about?

He tried to insinuate that Greg Lemond was an alcoholic and had also cheated.

I seem to recall that Trek had a fair hand in that too...

He took/stole A LOT of money from sponsors and backers. His whole 'Livestrong' schtick was self-aggrandizing and self-promoting.

So did every cheating rider - if one cheat is "stealing" money from sponsors then surely a peloton of cheats is exactly the same? The cancer charity is an interesting one, most UK people don't get it due to the different ways that healthcare works in the US to the UK but actually most Americans still see LiveStrong as a really positive thing although I don't doubt for a second that LA was benefitting from it too, whether directly or through related sponsorship/media exposure.

I don't really care one way or another - the whole story is like a soap opera and it genuinely has some fascinating moments but don't for one second believe that Lance = all bad and everyone else = all good cos it's not that clear cut at all. Everyone knew to some extent what was going on - the sponsors, the media, the peloton, the team staff, even the US Cycling Federation and the UCI and everyone benefitted nicely from it at some point even if it came back to bite them later.

The documentary on Thursday should be interesting anyway! To me, one of the most interesting things in the BBC interview was the switch between first and third person when he was talking about himself. Classic dissociation technique, a way of absolving oneself from blame. Sociopathic. He's an interesting character, give him that much.

Damage was done to the sport of cycling............

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

here's the line to be drawn under it

LA should foxtrot oscar really

Mike Tyson
Micheal Shumacher
Muhammad Ali
Dago Maradona
Steve Jobs
Walt Disney
Henry Ford
Tony Blair

A little list of liars, cheats, racist, bullying ****s, all winners though and depending on the book you read hero's or villains. Some of my favourite people are ****s.

I wasn't trying to excuse anyone else, and I definitely wasn't saying LA = bad, everyone else = good. My opinion is that if you're caught doping in sport that you are out, life-time ban, bye-bye.

This year was the first year in quite a while that I've watched the Tour, as events of the last few (quite a few!) years had tainted my enjoyment of it.

I have a sister who competed professionally (2 Olympics, 10 year of WC racing) in a sport where many of the athletes knew there was doping going on and pretty much who was doing it. But people are clever, and if you're a clean athlete, but sponsorship and prize money pay your bills, you don't rock the boat.
I know for a fact my sister enjoyed her time, but is very much of the opinion that she would have won more WC events if it had been a level playing field.

Why are people so offended and shocked by his personality ie he is high flying d1ckh3ad.

Selfishness, huge ego, willing to do anything to win, manipulative, etc etc All traits found in plenty of the top 1% in sport/finance/Music/TV.

Clearly he isn't a top bloke and not someone who you would have a care free pint with. However he has been made a scapegoat by the UCI, WADA, the peloton. Plenty of riders happy to slip away, who undoubtedly will have benefited in a round about way via the lance effect.

And as someone has said already his ability to wind up the people who view the world as black and white and who love to be offended is slightly endearing, much like clarksons persona.

And anyone who thinks doping isn't going on, I am sorry to tell you that Santa isn't real either.

[quote=saynotobasemiles ]And as someone has said already his ability to wind up the people who view the world as black and white and who love to be offended is slightly endearing, much like clarksons persona.

If being a cock is slightly endearing, what do you have to do to be totally lovable?

If being a cock is slightly endearing, what do you have to do to be totally lovable?

Stand up for LA?

aracer- Some hyperbole on my part of course. I just find it says more about them, when people are surprised/offended at someone who is clearly a cock or in the process of being a cock, than the person they are taking offense at. (this is whilst the person is not in the immediate vicinity) ie Katie Hopkins, clarkson essentially professional trolls and people still bite. AS for Lance/other not so nice folk, it's obvious they are so why be offended, particularly if he has never personally wronged you.

After reading that, I've gained a little more respect for him. At least he has the courage to say that while he's sorry for ruining peoples lives, he's not sorry for doping and would do it again.

I think that in that respect at least he's been far more honest than many other dopers.

You're falling into the trap of believing a single word he says.

Of course I am following the standard STW line of not having read what he said, but in this case I doubt it would provide much enlightenment.

After reading that, I've gained a little more respect for him. At least he has the courage to say that while he's sorry for ruining peoples lives, he's not sorry for doping and would do it again.

I think that in that respect at least he's been far more honest than many other dopers.

Thing is, I doubt he's really sorry. He's only saying it as he thinks it might get him some sort of rehabilitation in the public eye.

Fair point.

I can appreciate why he thinks he now [i]deserves[/i] forgiveness, because all the other cheats that got caught, got off relatively lightly...

The fact that he's back in the press, pushing his case and his version of events yet again, coupled with his apparent lack of humility or willingness to accept any real responsibility. Constantly justifying his previous actions/conduct by "context".
That just proves to me that he's not a reformed character, it's still all about self interest... that he's still using the charity angle as a flimsy justification, claiming that keeping him out of sport is hurting charity and the needy, that makes it that bit more distasteful IMO...

The most telling point for me was that he regrets his 2009 "Comeback".
Reading between the lines it's because it put him back on USADA/WADA's Radar, He got greedy for the limelight and for the money that goes with it and that was his undoing... And deep down He knows it.

The other thing I noted was how much older he's looking, two years of being the main "villain" in cycling's little purge of the past has clearly taken it's toll, maybe it's time Lance moved on rather than the rest of the world, it's not a fight he's going to win...

Didn't think the revisionist view would start so soon TBH.

I thought it was interesting that he countered that he hardly knows anyone with integrity. He must have a fine group of friends!

At least he admitted to being a bumhole for fifteen years.

Get it into perspective perhaps...Mercks,Roche,Vino (former cheat that managed Nibali to TDF last year ) and others were all at it to survive,win,call it what you want....dark times and bad habits were rife in this sport,as well as others in that era.....main question is how clean is it now? No denying the levels that Armstrong went to with his solicitors (they can cause people pain without concience) and advisors, perhaps aiding this...maybe his mistake was winning 7 Tours and making it obvious,not to mention annoying the French....might have got away with one or two? Just a thought...It seems as though we give sportsmen who cheat and lie a harder time than politicians who do it for a living with much greater consequences and suffering.

I've yet to read the full transcript and am wondering if anyone has asked him:

In the light of your experience, what measures, procedures, systems would you put in place to ensure that doping is as limited as it can be?

Still a great rider in my eyes, massive 'C' but a splendid cheat among cheats.

So if he cheated his way to all his victories but was a nicer guy would that be easier to swallow?

Possibly yes like Merckx another famous bully and cheat. Or a failed cheat like Millar or one that takes his life like Pantani, all cheats but all adored.

iolo - Member

So who here would cheat to win a race?

Of course. If I were racing and it was the difference between 4th and 1st for me to cheat.. then yes, I'm afraid I would cheat. I have the desire to win, the desire to be the best (I know I know, prove it... but life gets in the way) if there was an easy fix... I'd take it in a heartbeat.

Even more so when it was my job, my wage, my bonus, contract, would I take the drugs that gave my family 100% more money to live on... hell yes... without a seconds thought.

Cheat, no never. Winning has to matter to me and no one else.

Lebowski ..er.. dude, his ability to bother plonkers like you makes me admire him even more. You need to get over yourself and read some different books.

I've read plenty of books about LA & plenty about cycling.

You want to put a man on a pedestal who most think is a complete @rsehole of the lowest possible kind?

Says a lot about you..

Like he can think for himself, don't think anyone want's to put him on a pedestal.

I am (slightly) looking forward to the first race he commentates. I'd much rather he did that than become a DS.

The 'everyone was doing it' argument doesn't wash. Especially today.

Spin - Member

The 'everyone was doing it' argument doesn't wash. Especially today.

Why doesn't it ? Were they not then ?

The part of the "story" I'd really like to see exposed is how a promising young sportsperson gets into drugs in the first place. Is it whispers in the dressing rooms of "anyone got any gear" or unscrupulous coaches/team doctors giving "vitamin shots".

Take a hyper competitive personality, put them on a hard training regime and pump them full of drugs with known mood altering side effects, then chuck in a pinch of paranoia, and stir until cooked - you're not going to get the most balanced and rational person at the end.

Not trying to excuse LA's behaviour but there's always another side and I suspect there's more than a few shady characters who'll never face any comeback for their role in sports doping who are the real wrong'uns in all this.

Aren't the same haematocrit and testosterone levels achieved today by using oxygen tents, altitude training and diet?

@hilldodger - have a read of David Millar's book "Racing Through the Dark". Another would be the book about Tommy Simpson - "Put me back on my Bike".

As for LA, it's not so much the drug taking that has led to his current situation but his attitude to others both in the past and present. If he had simply taken PEDs, got caught, served the ban then he should be allowed back but he went out of his way to twist the system both to ensure that his own cheating wasn't found out and to denigrate others.

In a way he's backed himself in to a corner: he more than likely lied before a Grand Jury and that carries a pretty hefty prison sentence so he's obviously trying to avoid that. Yes, others were doping during that period but using that as an excuse is like claiming that because others were shoplifting you thought it was OK to do it.

@hilldodger - have a read of David Millar's book "Racing Through the Dark".

would rather hear it from someone who's not a cheat - but I guess that'll never happen

As has been pointed out by others, the doping IMHO has become almost incidental, when compared to the rest of the vile, sociopathic shit he got up to. The bloke is an unmitigated * of the highest order. An obnoxious, vainglorious bully, who didn't give a flying * about who's careers he destroyed, or the damage he did to peoples lives, as long as he came out on top. As long as he 'won'. The *er is completely devoid of empathy or even the slightest shred of or humanity or decency.

Everything and anything, or indeed everyone and anyone was sacrificed on the alter of his *ing enormous, all-pervasive ego! And this latest chapter is no different. Is this contrition? Do me a *ing favour! Its all still about ME, ME, ME, and * everyone else!

He's an utter and complete ****! They should punish him in a way that would really hit him. By completely depriving him of what he craves the most. Publicity. Let him rot without giving him any more air-time

@hilldodger, surely its best to hear the story from someone who has been through it ?

Athletes in all sports take supplements, there is a cross over from legal to banned. Remember the British skier who failed a drug test losing an Olympic Bronze medal as the vics inhailer he used contained a banned substance. The one sold in the UK in legal the one he bought (in Sweden ?) was not. He is now a drugs "cheat". There is of course a world of difference between that and the industrial scale operations we've seen in cycling or Eastern European athletics. My point is getting started is easy and a subtle switch.

I'm just watching Auschwitz anniversary.
The awful things that happened there by so many Nazi soldiers.
Soldiers who probably had wives and kids at home.
They killed and tortured these poor Jews including women, children, even shooting babies in front of their mother.
According to some views on this thread it must have been alright because "at that time everyone was doing it"

im sensing a little bit of hostility towards LA from Binners 😆
so What are you trying to say ??? 😉 Lol

iolo - Member

I'm just watching Auschwitz anniversary.
The awful things that happened there by so many Nazi soldiers.
Soldiers who probably had wives and kids at home.
They killed and tortured these poor Jews including women, children, even shooting babies in front of their mother.
According to some views on this thread it must have been alright because "at that time everyone was doing it"

Yeah, talking about someone and verbally abusing them is only 1 step away from slaughtering children.