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i suppose i'm boasting more than anything, but i've been getting to know my new Hemlock over the last couple of weeks, and i think it's the absolute tits.
(younger people than myself assure me this expression means i like it).
the attention to detail is superb, it's a proper 4-bar with a flat top-link meaning it works even when you use the rear brake (Think trek ABP, only better - the ABP system is just a clever way of dodging the horst link patent).
the handling is slightly odd, by which i mean it's good. usually bikes are either front-heavy xc things which try to kill you should you dare to ride it down anything steep, or rear-biased free-ridey things which rear up and refuse to be pedalled UP anything steep (think instant wheelie) My Cotic seems very neutral, i can choose to weight either the front or the rear wheel. My old enduro gave me no choice, the front wheel was always light. i do sometimes get it wrong tho' and find myself weighting the wrong wheel, but most bikes don't give me the choice...
i'm a huge fan, i wouldn't recommend it for an xc-racer, but for generally hooning around hills and forests finding tricky lines to ride off/over/down it's a hoot!
Thanks Cy.
[i]i wouldn't recommend it for an xc-racer,[/i]
Why not? I'm assuming weight but just wanted to clarify.
Is yours built up burly with 150mm rocker? What fork are you using?
Trying to decide on a Hemlock before they go out-of-stock (knowing my luck!).
Good to see an owner's opinion. Thought this thread might encourage a few people to buy one but still haven't seen much mention of new owners on STW.
Nukeproof - I bought one three weeks ago and it is the nuts. Excellent attention to detail and toally sorted all round bike. I've only got the 120mm rocker with 130mm Menjas and its mint for just about everything.
Mine comes in at 27lbs inc pedals. Its not an xc racer in that the its not 21 lbs and the steering might be a little slack for some but for your average Joe I'd say it does everything.
I got a black one as they'd sold out of the white. I was a bit disappointed at first but actually I prefer it now.
I was between a Hemlock, RC405 and a Salsa El Kaboing and more than happy and excellent vfm.
@rob2 - Cheers for that. I'd consider 27lb pretty light (same as my Inbred and my now-sold Superlight). Interested to hear you say that the steering might be a little slack for some; given you're running 130mm forks and the Hemlock sort of sits at 130mm to 160mm, I thought it might be a bit twitchy at the lower travel end. I was, for now, going to stick some 130mm Revs on.
nukeproof; the hemlock isn't quite 'arse-up, head-down' enough for a pure xc racer. (in my humble ... etc.)
i suppose if woke up one morning, and decided that there wasn't enough pain in my life, i could fit an internal headset, some shorter forks, a longer stem, and start xc racing again on what would be a very competent bike. but that would be a shocking waste of a playfull frame.
who really wants a proper xc-race bike anyway? they're uncomfortable and dangerous.
i'm running my Hemlock with the 120mm link, and some Pikes. a 70mm stem, lots of rear-sag and the pro-pedal set to 3.
(don't tell Cy, but i've got some old 170mm boxxers that will do very nicely for the alps trip this year - paired up with the 150mm link)
(the axle-crown on my boxxers is less than a pair of lyrics, so no leverage worries)
by co-incidence, i've got nukeproof hubs on it, they're also very good.
bikes are ace.
pub time.
I was thinking the small rocker with adjustable forks 110 to 160 ish. What do you all think. Don't know which forks, RS, Fox or Magura. Any ideas about getting it down to about 27lbs. I'll be fitting pro2 with flow rims for a starter.
pub time
I wish, the boss has just gone out and I'm holding the baby.
nukeproof - I meant slack compared to an anthem or similar xc bike. I think it is spot on with 130mm forks. I've got an internal headset on too.
roughneck - personlly I like magura's but I've not tried a fox. For weight saving try look's quartz pedals, Kore I-beam seatpost/saddle, on-one's wood grips - all pretty cheap but I've never had any problems and they are nice and light too. Worth a try.
I've had mine a couple of months now and i really love it. It weighs 33lb on my house scales so who knows what it really weighs.
Spec Hope xc/pro2 hubs with xm317 rims
09 Talas 36 forks
SLX chainset/xt cassette
M4 brakes/floating front 200mm rotor
The rest of the kit is all good quality Easton/Controltec/WTB type stuff, nothing too heavy.
I've got 100/160 travel and a 150 rocker for Pyrenees/Alps (not tried it yet) and its the Pearl shock. 70mm stem.
Previous bike was an 06 Wolf Ridge and to compare the two, the Marin felt lighter on the climbs, in fact there wasn't much i couldn't nail. This just feels a lot more of a grinder even with the forks dropped to 130, having said that i'm still making it up most stuff. Need to take it to Stairs Lane for a test..
Downhill is a very different story, forks upto 160, low BB and an overall solidity and playfullness the old bike couldn't match. I'm loving the slack head angle, its perfect for dropping off stuff.
So i agree, don't build it as an xc thang, build it to play, it loves it..
Cheers ahwiles & rob2: sounds like both of yours are pretty similar to how I'd wanted it. Be nice to see them though: any pics available? 🙂
Just for an alternative idea I bought my Hemlock a few months ago with a 150mm rocker (secondhand) and I was going to get the shorter rocker, but to be honest I'm not sure its necessary. With the propedal it goes uphill and along the flat fantastically, and then just flick the switch to descend with the full 150mm. Perfect for my riding round the Peak.
I have Talas 140mm on the front which are fine, but I think that Talas 36 would be a better choice. I wasn't trying to build it up at all lightly as I have a light bike but the Hemlock is still less than 29lbs, so even with 36s on it would be perfectly respectable.
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Mugboo (above) in Lakes
How easy is it to swap the plates over?
Roughneck, i've weighed my large frame, and it's somewhere less than 7lbs, i guess the rest is up to you. with enough cash i reckon you could build it around 25lbs, maybe less. but really, i'm from the 'just have a cup of coffee, wait 15 mins, and have a big poo' school of weight saving.
the 120 link, and pikes, mixed with an external (normal) headset, gives me a friendly slack head angle, steeper than my downhill bike, but slacker than my kona caldera. is just about perfick for me to hoon around the hills of sheffield and Derbyshire.
(slacker than a Pace Rc 405 with revelations, which my housemate rides)
forks, i like fox and rockshox, i think pikes are ace. cheap too. i would like to be impressed by magura forks - which seem relatively good value. but i've ridden 4 pairs in the last year, and each time all the air has leaked out in about 10 mins of riding.
i really want to like magura wotans, but i'm not buying them until i see a pair lasting at least 1 ride. (friends have had similar trouble).
no doubt, someone will be right along to tell me that Magura forks are scientifically proven to be 6 times more reliable than my ropey old pikes.
(test a pair, i bet you they work fine, i am a clueless moron)
Pic' on it's way.
New small frame here weighed on the kitchen scales 6.44lbs. Mine should be around 31/32 lbs with modest equipment. Thors LX/SLX/XT mix.
I've had Menjas for 2 years and no problems and probably reinflated 3 times in that time.
Thors on this one but too soon to tell if they are going to be fine. So far so good.
Wish I'd seen this thread a month ago...
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There's a big difference in feel between the long and short travel. Short feels quite firm and good to pump, long feels like most other longer travel bikes with a fairly linear feel. I was running mine with Pikes, but now have the new Fox Talas 32's but in 150mm guise and they're awesome for the bike. I mostly use the short travel rockers and can then go 110 - 130 - 150 on the front with the forks.
I love mine, but when your setting the cable length for your rear mech make sure you use the long rockers to set the size. I made it fit nice and snug with the 120mm rockers and when it came to trying out the 150 rockers a couple of weeks ago it was too short. D'Oh!!
ahwiles, I've got coil pikes on my Chameleon and there the best forks I've ever used by a mile, but I just want some more travel. I think its going to be Talas 36 or lyrik.
i suspect i'm thinking the same as a lot of folks - really tempted to get a Hemlock, just looks plain right, but can't quite commit. it's once in a blue moon that i get a new bike (current bike 8 years old and counting...) not mega fussy on set up etc. but want something that will last the course
would be interested to know what they climb like? happy to put on pro-pedal (or what ever it is) for long flat climbs - what are they like on lumpy twisty stuff? Probably get a 130-140 fork
As much the same as any other bike I've ridden at that weight. Pro Pedal on 2 or 3 allows you to mash the pedals on smooth climbs. 1 allows you to forget you've left it on and not get penalised too much downhill and have a bit less bobing. I prefer it off for anything but climbing. I've come from a very bobby bike uphill so it doesn't really bother me.
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just found this on 18 bikes site hope it helps.
i have found this thread facinating, partly as i know cy and partly because the only other designer who has as much contact and input with his riders and potential riders is dt over on mtbr.com.
knowing how much anal detail cy puts into his frames, from his steel hardtails to the hemlock and having seen him ride, he won't blow his own trumpet he's far too nice for that, is enough evidence for me that a hemlock would be a perfect tool for riding int he peaks, all day every day.
there you go my ten penneth.
wouldn't mine a go on one but then i met someone the other day who tore the back end off his manualling through a drainage ditch on my local DH. kinda put me off. he's on a blood now and loving it.
Good to see a bike maker who is pricing their frames competitively for once..... Not like 'some' UK producers who stick another 400-500 ontop which is piss poor to the consumers.
😉
@rickos. That bike looks stunning...spot on for how I'd build it. Didn't think I'd like the white but it looks great as there's not too much of it. Still, given Cotic have sold out of white, thats one decision thats not going to need to be made! Hoping the anodized will be harder wearing as in it can't chip like paint.
So why do you ditch the Pikes...just for the extra travel?
For any owners, hows the chainring clearance: heard it was tight and the chainstay could get a bit of chainsuck damage?
nukeproof - clearance is a bit tight - I put in two spacers on an external bottom bracket but no problems so far. I've put on a zip tie too to stop any. Photo to come!
[i]clearance is a bit tight [/i]
Thats a shame. Had enough of worrying about tight chainrings on my Inbred 853. British designers with their love of huge tyre clearance 🙄 😉 Still, there's always work arounds.
That is a very nice looking frame to be honest.
Price seems fair too specially now that I am paid in €.
Any chance to get a test bike sent over here 😉
I've got an 853 inbred as well and know what you mean, but the clearance is much better.
And a black one for balance....
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nukeproof - the Talas 32's with 150mm travel are on loan from Dirt magazine. Not sure when they want them back though...hopefully not until after my Alps trip in June!
re: chainstay/chainring clearance and chainsuck.
chainsuck is a symptom of worn out components, and a chain that's too slack. it's natures way of telling you to spend some time and money on bike maintenance you cheapskate. (guilty as charged)
i had a bit o chainsuck during my first ride (new chain, old granny ring), and i din't notice anything worse than any other bike would suffer. the chain wasn't trapped between anything, or owt like that.
it's not an issue as far as i'm concerned. you'll be missing out on a great bike if your main reason for not buying one is concern over chainsuck.
Re: captain bastard and climbing,
it climbs better than my old enduro, i know that. i suspect mainly because the cockpit is a bit shorter, i can get more weight over the front wheel to keep it down. it's very good for technical climbing. with the 120mm links and pro-pedal on, it really is like a hardtail. with the 150mm links and pro-pedal off/low and it's much more active, but that gives you more grip than a hardtail cos the wheel can track over stuff.
just to prove i'm not one of Cotic's minions, here to spread propaganda, i don't think it's perfect, i think the back end would look more elegant if the seatstays pointed at the axle not the pivot, and the bracing for the pivot under the top tube is a little 'functional', but it's mostly hidden, and it works.
has anyone ridden an Ellsworth Moment? - that was the other frame i was looking at, and i'd be interested to hear how they comare...
I rode cy's bike at the Sherwood demo day, set up was 120R 140 Thors up front, and it was bloody fantastic round there, Ok so not particularly exciting but it impressed me enough to decide it will be my next bike (have Heckler with coil pikes) just need to save the cash. I'm a big lad (6'4" and 105kg) and there was no flex at the rear, Cy only had to put 30psi in the rear shock to get it set for me (he's ~85kg)