[Closed] Help with fit when no bike to try

ignore the size and go with the numbers. i always start with reach as i care more about how it will feel stood up on the pedals. then i look at the seat tube length, there is no point getting the right reach if the seatpost is too long to get the saddle properly out of the way.

a more modern seat tube/head tube will likely make a longer reach feel shorter sat down due to the steeper seat tube angle.

i would always opt for the longer bike and run a shorter stem than the shorter bike with a longer stem. i wouldnt want to go above 50mm with a stem. having said that i prioritise fast over playful, so if you are not racing then you might opt for the shorter reach

its all very personal

Simples...
Where do you live?
What bike you buying?

I reckon there must be someone close with one to try.

PS. TBH I'd be surprised if you were anything but a XL at six foot three...

I'm 6'2 🙂 so I suspect XL but the reach makes the new bike (Pivot Trail 429 - good luck finding a new one as I have to order for July delivery thanks 2021) is just 24mm longer, given the current bike has a 60mm stem I am pretty sure that's the best option but that doesn't allow for much steeper seat tube angles but then that would bring it in relative to current bike.

All views helpful, thanks

I used this https://bikeinsights.com/compare?geometries=60389977f9df2b00172f140c,5e3d7a976db044001733b9fb, for a good visual comparison but reach versus reach to grip doesn't include seat tube unless you know a tool that does that?

Ta

James

Look on geometrygeeks and compare with your current bike.

I checked Geometrygeeks, really good resource, bit like the one I linked to above but the there is no calculation for seat to grips, so the additional reach of the XL new bike (24mm) could be offset by reduced steeper seat tube angle but no way to check that I know of but open to any suggestion or perhaps I am not thinking along the right line.

James

“ the additional reach of the XL new bike (24mm) could be offset by reduced steeper seat tube angle”

The effective top tube should give you a rough idea of that distance.

reach is the horizontal distance between the BB and the centre of the top of the head tube. it describes how big the bike will feel when out of the saddle.

the seat angle will not have any influence on the reach.

the top tube measurement indicates how big the bike will feel when in the saddle.

generally, on new bikes the reach has been lengthened and the seat tube steeped, but top tube measurements for a given size are similar to what they have always been. some bikes with radically steep seat angles have shorter top tubes than old bikes.

the pivot is not a radical design (unless it has been updated in the last 2 years).

edit: by which i’m suggesting that the XL would be the better fit

the new bike Pivot Trail 429

You already sort-of decided on geo if your being picky... my experience is different makes tend to have a different geo of rider they use... OR they just make a M/L then stretch/shrink... (so a S in that model is actually a completely different bike to a L/XL) that's not necessarily good or bad just how it is.

That said at 5'10" and short legs ... I ride bikes from a S to L (partly because I share some bikes with my 11yr old) one of which is the same model in S and ML

It's all different ... riding a S lacks a bit of stability at the edge when railing downhill... but pops superbly over jumps... the front is expectedly light when climbing.

The large on the other hand is stable and lacks fun on anything not "extreme" but its a completely different bike to the Pivot (170/160 front/rear)

Those are somewhat extreme differences so I can't see the L/XL being anything like that.
The only bike I find the length lacking is my XC HT... this is where I end up riding long bridleways etc say in the saddle. On most singletrack/trails however its not such a big deal as I'm in/out of the saddle.

https://store.pivotcycles.com/en/bike-trail-429-2

The reach is 2cm different from L to XL (460 vs 480mm). Neither are particularly long by modern standards, although 480 is probably about middle-of-the-road for an XL. For comparison, my XL Santa Cruz is 500mm, and a (notoriously long) Bird Aether 9c in XL is 540 (L is 512 and even the M at 484 is longer than the Pivot)!

you can make large frame larger

No you can't. You can't make a frame longer, and you can't do much for the wheelbase either. Plus, longer stems do bad stuff to the handling. Buy the correct size frame.

Whilst I think people around 6' can agonise over L vs XL, I don't think there's an issue at your height, it's XL every time! If Pivot did an XXL (I don't think they do?) that might be something to consider. If you buy anything other than XL you'll be buying a bike that is very short compared to modern trends. Obviously you don't have to stick to trends.

Thanks all for the views really helpful, I've been out and looked in detail over current setup and mulled a lot.

Thanks for the comments, all appreciated, the link that @superficial was using was for the older model (new one in xL is 495) but the comment was none the less helpful to shape my thinking 🙂

I think at 6’2 I’d be going for the one with the reach of 495mm unless the seat tube is particularly long and doesn’t allow you to fit a long enough dropper in.

6’2 doesn’t say if you’re long of leg / short of arm, or the other way round. That’s a real consideration.

At 5’9 I bought an ML Bird Aeris 145 but always found it a bit long when stood up (fine when sat down) because I have a 32” leg but short arms. When I replaced it with a Bird Aether I sized down to a medium and it’s much better for me.

But then other people at my height would think a bike with 457mm reach is a bit short and would go ML and would be fine.

the top tube measurement indicates how big the bike will feel when in the saddle.

There is some adjustment available through sliding the saddle forwards or backwards, plus some saddles have longer rails, plus there is some difference in seatpost offsets, so there is a couple of inches of ETT adjustment possible. This will depend on the seattube angle, obviously. If it has a very steep seattube, you can run the saddle further back for a slacker effective seat tube angle.

I've always found a bike that is slightly too small is much better than one that is slightly too big, but this will depend on the type of terrain you ride. Very long bikes with very wide bars feel like you're trying to steer a supertanker on tight trails. Fast, sweeping descents are a different matter.

I read a couple of years ago that arm span should be considered when between sizes as well as height, with standover not being as much of an issue as it used to be on most frames. Im 5'8 and comfortably 'ride' a large 29er with around 465 reach (shorter than specced stem/low rise bars) but pretty sure Sam Hill and Richie Rude, both 5'10, both 'race' on medium frames and the seem to manage pretty well despite probably being on a size below what their sponsors would recommend to the paying customer. Personally I'd always go larger but I don't race much and used to own a Mondraker, their medium was longer than the large YT I'm riding now

At 6ft2, you are on an xl all day long. The only caveat is seat tube height and dropper insertion if you are wanting to run a long dropper post.

Bikes with bigger stack heights come out bigger, as you dont put as many spacers under the stem, so not losing reach that way.

I'm 6ft, and anything around the 500mm reach point is perfect for me. Smuggler is 500, Geometron is 515 and eRansom is 500.

At 6-2 you may even be on the closer to xxl size in some frames.
Im 6-3 and run an xl ragley big al and megatwower both have 490+- 3mm reaches but one has a 460mm seat tube the other 500mm . I could have got away with a xxl mega but that would have been a beast to manhandle.