A little over 7 weeks ago i purchased a set of Juicy ultimates off the classifieds. They were described as in VGC. They arrived, eventually, i checked the contents and they seemed fine. Now, 4-5 weeks ago i got round to fitting the brakes on the slowly progressing build (it took this long as i was in hospital for some fairly major operation on my leg and then a badly timed house move). Upon fitting i found out both pads needed replacing, clamp and bodies were scuffed/ chipped more than first inspection. This i could deal with, but the worst part is the one of the clamp bolt holes is bored(?) and wont bite. The same clamp, other thread, is also corroded. I have had them inspected by a local avid dealer and an engineering company just to confirm this.
Now, i contacted the seller 4 weeks ago, no reply. I have tried to contact in the last couple weeks via email and posting on the sellers threads. Still no reply.
I will state these brakes have [u]not[/u] been used or indeed fitted.
Is it fair to ask for a refund?, hell even if its 80%-90% of a refund. I cant afford another set!!!
I have an XTR caliper with one of the threads gone from readjusting sticking caliper. I wouldn't think of selling it.
If the seller knew this then they just ripped you off. They could have gone when the seller unscrewed them and hence -you only know when retightening and if the seller thought they were ok they could say you did it.
The only thing you can do is contact the seller and ask them but if they knew they will just blame you.
Never buy 2nd items like brakes?
Mmmmmm. It seems like another bustafjones special 🙁
Good luck with it.
I'd say that it is something you should have raised within a week of receiving them. Seven weeks is a little long and you should probably have tested them right away, regardless of circumstances.
Not ideal, but you could get the threads helicoiled for not much money rather than trying to chase down an elusive seller.
fwiw too long between recieving and using ....irrespective of excuses for it.
I think you should always check anything you buy ASAP. That said I leave stuff for ages all the time before checking. A lot of used MTB parts are useless it's why people sell them.
I wouldn't use the classified adds, buy from ebay then you have 45 days to check the item and make sure it works.
That said simply repair the brakes and make sure you put procedures into place that you learn from the experience and stick to them for any future buys.
Hope your feeling better after you hospital stay.
name and shame.
I understand 7 weeks is a long time. But the seller was contacted after about 4 weeks, only really 28 days, which isnt that long.
Loddrik, i see you point but they were bought as being in "VGC". They seemed fine when i looked them over, except as i said for some scuffs and worn pads. I didnt have the parts for the rest of the build as it wasnt going to be many weeks until i could walk properly, let alone build a bike. I didnt expect to have to check all the bolts etc considering the apparent vgc.
Trail_rat it has been sometime since buying, but not since first attempt to contact seller. Plus they have not been used. Not excuses, fact.
Stormwind, i see your point for ebay, but ive used stw classifieds for years and never had a bother. I not one for complaining,but i dont feel this is right.
Im not going to name and shame as i dont feel it is necessary at this time, im waiting for a reply....
Is it this one?
http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/fs-juicy-ultimate-carbons
if so, you wouldn't be the first one to complain about him - try a search
uplink freeform5spots ad is for Elixirs - the OP's complaining about Juicys?
[Edit] Never disagree with anyone prior to first espresso of the day. 😳
Wwaswas, read the ad again, you've still got time to edit:)
wwaswas - the ad is for Juicys, FF5spot had just got some elixirs for himself.
As above, search on bustafajones...loads of history. I wouldn't buy from him.
Sorry. OP its your 'word'. Someone selling to a mate then yes you could reproach a friend as he could trust what your saying is true.
From someone on the internet how the hell does the seller know you haven't botched the brakes up etc etc yourself and looking for some damage-limitation?
As for cosmetics- you could see these when you opened the package. You would have checked them right when you received? If you didn't thats tough.
On the pads- unless the seller described the pads 'as new' then theres no comeback. Hes describing the brakes as VGC not 'pads as new'?
Maybe they were washed before packing and due to lack of use the corrosion has occured?
Sorry when you buy something used you really do have to check it out properly.
Imagine you bought a quilt cover and didn't opened it 40days later to discover a tear in the fabric. Do you think the shop would be reasonable in refusing your refund request?
Agree with general opinion. After 4 weeks most sellers will have spent the money, I know I would have.
Only problem I ever had was with a set of olf forks I sold, the guy that bought them was giving them a service and said they were mashed inside. Took his word for it and refunded him. But that was within a week of me posting them.
Basically I would say you need to check the item properly when you get them. Not starting an arguement but would you expect the seller to keep the cash lying around for 4 weeks? I certainly wouldn't!
STW classifieds are good for getting good used parts and if most folk are decent they wiill tell you if there is a problem with the part. But in essence its still a gamble as you have no binding contract with the seller, just a general hope that the seller is a "decent person".
OP- I've had issues with three items bought on STW. On all three occasions as soon as I've received the items I've contacted the sellers ASAP.
I wouldn't wait going on two months then start a thread about how I could create sly awareness to the seller in the hope he'd feel suitably subtly threatened into giving in.
Sorry. This (to me) is how this thread reads.
On all three occasions as soon as I've received the items I've contacted the sellers ASAP.
The OP did too. As soon as he found the stripped thread! (Which you wouldn't see until you tried to fit the brakes)
Just a thought, but Juicy Ultimates, are they not postmount? So all you'd need would be a new adaptor, NOT a whole new caliper?
I know but it goes back to my early comment- you need to check a secondhand item as soon as you receive it. Theres only limited comeback/goodwill as it is with a private sale.
If a seller sends something that they believe to be in working condition then receive an email 4 weeks later I'd be inclined to reply 'oh let me just pass you to my customer services dept.....'
Too long to wait. Check stuff the day it lands. Can't do that, sorry but thats hard luck. maybe less than perfect but you could have been reasonable about it. I doubt I would take them back now, where as within a few days I might well have.
uplink's link is spot on, the ads for Ultimate carbons because the seller had bought some elixirs
7 weeks is a bit of a long time to leave it. Not as bad as someone I had who left it over a year to get in touch!!! He had the parts sitting in his garage for a year before he got round to using them and found he'd bought the wrong ones.
Right, time for a bacon butty me thinks.
7 weeks ago he bought them, they arrived some time after that and 4 weeks ago he got in touch. He hasn't waited 7 weeks at all probably just over a week. The seller hasn't answered him just ignored him which no good.
Drac then it doesnt make sense:
-A little over 7 weeks ago.
-They arrived
-(eventually i checked the contents and they seemed fine)
-Now, 4-5 weeks ago
So using that it says he checked them within a week of buying them?!! Even using the word 'eventually'.
Drac has it. Hora, read the post again.
-Ordered 7 weeks ago
-They arrived, eventually
-Gave them the once over when they came, seemed fine
-4-5 weeks ago (so possibly a few days after they came) went to fit them, found they were shagged. Contacted bustafajones/freeform5spot
-Seller doesn't respond, but continues to trade
That's how I read it.
one of the clamp bolt holes is bored
Problems like this only become apparent when fitting to the bike. When I buy parts of STW they often go unfitted for weeks and I would have thought it completely reasonable to contact the seller regarding this problem. And completely unreasonable for the seller to offer no explanation.
From a sellers point of view I'd tell you to do one. 7 weeks you could have been doing anything with them. Best of luck but I can't see you getting refund.
Problems like this only become apparent when fitting to the bike. When I buy parts of STW they often go unfitted for weeks and I would have thought it completely reasonable to contact the seller regarding this problem. And completely unreasonable for the seller to offer no explanation.
+1
From a sellers point of view I'd tell you to do one. 7 weeks you could have been doing anything with them. Best of luck but I can't see you getting refund.
but it wasn't 7 weeks was it? It was probably around a week.
I think PP has a point!
Post mount - just get a new adapter! If not helicoil.
Lesson learned!
Honest sellers should be able to stand over their goods regardless. Even 4-5 weeks isnt unreasonable if the parts havent been fitted.
Most people on here are familiar with Bustafajones/freefrom5spot. Myself and a friend have bought off him in the knowledge that he 'trades'. Both items were fine. If you look at sellers posting history you usually get a good idea or wether they are shifting their old gear or wether they are trading.
I think that due to the elapsed time it is just a lesson learnt. I can think of 2 others that frequent the classifieds that 'trade' and are tolerated too.
I examine stuff as soon as I get it. That way, if it's not right, you can start a paypal dispute whilst there's still come hope of the money still being in the seller's account.
I'd photograph the problem areas and see if the seller will provide a refund, or a partial refund to fund a repair. I've been done once on classifieds, and it's the only way to go, unless you live nearby. If you don't want to fix it, flog it on ebay and view it as a lesson learned.
When I come to sell stuff, I always clean it up, give it a look over and make sure it's functional. That way I know what I've sold is sound, and where I stand if the buyer comes back to me, so the timeframe wouldn't really matter. On the other hand, if the seller took the brakes off and chucked them straight in the post, then he might have no idea of the faults.
I also check it straight away but don't always fit them for awhile as can be for future projects.
So freeform is bustafa ok. Mind I bought a frame from Bustfa way back and it was in excellent condition but he was very very slow in sending it out. He's definitely trade though.
you can start a paypal dispute
If the money was a personal payment - that is unlikely.
7 weeks you could have been doing anything with them
Damage could be done within minutes of receipt too.
but it wasn't 7 weeks was it? It was probably around a week
+1
Start a post on stw where everyone can name and shame ! Doesn't matter how long it takes to discover the item is damaged he still sold u a useless item. Take the issue up with paypal against the seller. I think you can still do this as you can on eBay.
Good luck at getting the issue resolved
Isn't the problem with someone like bustafajones that they're just breaking bikes so may not have known there was a problem. This means he is taking a risk that there is a problem and the buyer wants a refund but if it doesn't stop him trading he won't want to give it as he'll be making a loss as bought the item to sell.
tiger_roach. I think that you've hit the nail on the head right there. As he hasn't used a lot of the kit he sells (or if he has used it, certainly not for long) he can't actually vouch for the operating condition.
Cheers for all points gents, and indeed any ladies. I can see both sides of the arguement. However it hasnt been 7 weeks since i have tried to doing anything about it.I have tried for the passed few weeks, with no success. Even before he went off on holiday. Thats why i have sought advice so-to-speak from the stw'rs.
They were definitely not in "VGC" as described, werent clean, and had certainly been used. The asthetics i can deal with if i could actually use them. Hora, you arguement as to my word against his is a fair point. Thats unfortunately what it boils down to. However if i was to post pics of the rest of the brakes "problem" it would show that they are certainly not in "VGC". Iregardless of the thread problem. Which incidently is on the lever body part of the clamp....
I do check over the items i purchase off here. They seemed fine until i fitted them. the clamps came bolted on and there was enough thread to hold them in place, but when you fit them to the bars theres a gap between the body and the clamp. Its here there is no thread. This is why it wasnt noticed when they first arrived.
People say i shouldve checked them throroughly. Its easy to say that from their point now and hindsight is a wonderful thing....
Its not fair to name and shame as it could be retified if the seller was indeed to reply to my emails / thread post.
What I would do is start a thread on a forum, secure in the knowledge that others would work out who the perp was and name and shame them for me... 😉
Poor communication is a pain. Possibly just keep posting in any threads he starts selling anything else until he answers you?
In general as a newb around here I have found the classifieds way better and more honest than ebay. Fingers crossed.
Hmmm, 4 weeks even is a long time. I'm not sure how I'd feel if it was me who sold them TBH but at the very least I'd reply to mails.
We all know bustafajones/freeform5spots history, he's clearly a dealer.
If no one buys from him on here, he'll soon stop bothering.
Doesnt help me much though. To make matters worse i have even sold a complete road bike to the seller. I had it boxed up and couriered to him in 2 days. So hopefully he knows i am true to my word. I gave him exceptional service (no s****ing please 🙂 ) so would expect the same in return.
Why not get the engineering company to helicoil the thread as required it's not a difficult job I would probably do all four while I was there
It's not an uncommon failure on those brakes and threads sometimes go as a bolt is removed not always as it's tightened.
Get some new pads and go for a ride :-))
There's still no excuse for not replying by the seller but leaving things that long !
Used does mean used and sometimes bargains ain't as good as we hope.
Used does mean used and sometimes bargains ain't as good as we hope
Very true. You think she's going to be a firecracker in bed because she's been around the block a few times, but it turns out she is a starfish.
thankyou for your valuable input Quirrel.... 😆
If the guy's "dealing" in used parts he's got to conform to the Sale of Goods act.
There's a subsection of the act c.1984 entitled "implied terms" which states "Goods sold must be of [u]satisfactory quality[/u] for a period of up to but not exceeding [u]90 days[/u] after the date of purchase.
For new items it is "implied". But in this case the seller has stated the goods are in VGC in a public forum. So there's your proof.
Depending on the type of outfit he's running, I don't think he's going to want Trading Standards and the Inland Revenue on his case.
I@m not sure how the law applies if it's just a private sale, and it's going to be difficult to prove anything but you could go to small claims court. From what I've seen, dodgy sellers rely on the fact that it's such a pain in the nads to chase them for your money back and most people give up.
I guess it depends how far you want to take it. But it could be worth giving Consumer Direct a call to find out out what your rights actually are.
Best of luck with it.
Skyline - I think that you are getting the wrong end of the stick with 'trading'.
He is someone who funds his biking hobby by buying bikes and splitting them for a profit. There is no law against it. However it is frowned upon on the forum.
Again just to reiterate. I and a friend have bought off him with no problems and he's also a nice guy. Communication is a bit slow sometimes but he will come back to you. Failing email me and I may have some further details.
By definition he's trading in used goods. Repeatedly selling goods for profit is classed as a business. I'm not against someone making a couple of quid from selling parts to fund a new bike. The government have other ideas though. And doing it in such a public way is sure to attract the wrong kind of attention at some point.
I'd have thought it'd be in his best interests to keep his customers happy. Because if you piss off the wrong person with the right knowledge of the law it can open up a whole can of worms with the taxman.
If I was in this situation, I'd be keen to sort it out without too much fuss for my reputation at least.
When I sell my used parts on, it's usually at a loss because I make sure they work properly before passing them on. Particularly on safety critical components like brakes.
Where there's blame......
I don't want to be responsible for injuries, let alone be sued for it.
You've got to cover your ass ets.
I think that you are being overly serious. I seriously doubt that the government would be interested in the said person buying and selling a few 2nd hand bikes. It's not a business.Stop being so dramatic.
Where there's blame...- I tell you what. I'll sell you some shit brakes. When YOU have fitted them to YOUR bike and they fail good luck coming after me in any legal way. The legal repercussions just aren't there.
Used does mean used and sometimes bargains ain't as good as we hope
Very true. You think she's going to be a firecracker in bed because she's been around the block a few times, but it turns out she is a starfish.
she's givin up the starfish? - horny bitch!
Drac - MemberI also check it straight away but don't always fit them for awhile as can be for future projects.
So freeform is bustafa ok. Mind I bought a frame from Bustfa way back and it was in excellent condition but he was very very slow in sending it out. [b]He's definitely trade though. [/b]
As i actually KNOW him i can 100% assure you he is NOT a trader - he buys bikes to get parts he wants cheaper and flogs the rest on. We all know that a full bike is cheaper than parts
Doesnt help me much though. To make matters worse i have even sold a complete road bike to the seller. I had it boxed up and couriered to him in 2 days. So hopefully he knows i am true to my word. I gave him exceptional service (no s****ing please ) so would expect the same in return.
In the mens public toilets when you give a man a reach around and he comes, hes less inclined to finish you off properly afterwards...
2nd hand gear is bought as seen, if its posted then it is reasonable for the seller to assume all is ok within a few days of receipt, this certainly shouldnt take more than a week. Even if you dont intend to fit an item properly you can still give it a good check over. Otherwise how long is the seller supposed to hang on for before considering the sale completed? Private sellers are not businesses, 28 day return policys dont apply, nor do they offer 3 month warranties against defects etc. Add to that people selling used gear are usually doing it because they need the cash then its unlikely to still be available some 6 weeks later.
Buying 2nd hand will always have an element of risk, the items are used and you dont know what sort of abuse they have been put through, and as mentioned already there is no warranty etc. However you are paying a fraction of the original RRP, this is what makes the deal so attractive.
So, my advice is to check items as soon as they arrive and take up any issues immediately. If they fail after a few weeks then you have probably been unlucky but this is the risk you take if you dont want to pay shop prices.
As far as what to do now with these brake, a local bike shop should be able to cut a slightly bigger thread and you can buy a replacement larger bolt from a DIY shop. Brake pads are consumables so as long as there is some use left in them then there isnt too much you can do about it.
sailor74, have you read the op?
Neil
Responded to your email yesterday. Have been away for a while hence lack of response.
Sorry you felt the need to air grievencess on the forum.
I stand by my original description of the item and the offer to send new branded Juicy pads out to you.
The brakes came off my own bike and, as you said in your email, mechanically are fine. The ad that there were chips and photos were sent. As for the issue with the threads, it was not noticed or I would have stated it it. there was no issue with it fitting correctly or when loosened and removed from the bars of my bike.
In your email you said that someone off here (no prizes for who!) kindly sent you all my details. However, you have my email and mobile number so I dont know the relevance of that statement to be honest.
As stated in my email, perhaps the best way to resolve is through the small claims process so that they can act as an arbitrator.
buyer beware! you should of checked more carefully. after all it was used.
Agree with caveat emptor etc, but feel that the classifieds are too open to abuse.
Suggestion for STW forum bods, perhaps some parts (brakes as an example) shouldn't be sold via classfieds due to risk of failiure etc, and sellers can then use the likes of e-bay to dispose of such items?
I've accumulated various Formula disc brakes over the last year or so, none have been usuable in their entirity, a situation that I'm not entirely unhappy with as I wanted spares more than usable brakes anyway.
surely the issue is description. one persons VGC may not be someone elses and can cause grief.
missing, arguably most bike parts are critical. I'd rather have a brake fail than a bar/stem snap! I know of motorcycle forums that ban helmet sales but nothing more.
I have no axe to grind with FF5spot, but he is clearly a "trader" in as much as he buys stuff purely with the intention of selling it on. A brief scan of his posting history shows 25 FS threads in 2 months. If someone buys a bike off ebay cos they just want, say, the wheels and then break up and sell the bits, the seller cannot vouch for the item's service/use/abuse/maintenance history other than to comment on appearance.
there is no feedback function here but it is easy enough for potential buyers to review a sellers history, see if theres any chasing-up or gripe posts, or to even email a buyer for feedback if they chose.
If this guys not a trader then I'm a monkeys uncle
Look at his history on here
He practically owns the classifieds
He's only been posting on the bike forum since this thread surfaced
Any comments about selling the odd bike to fund his hobby Is laughable
Look at his history
He must have made thousands last year
He's a bit quieter in 2010 for sure so must have found a new outlet without the abuse that running an Arthur Daley business on here for as years would bring
Or has he done a dr who and regenerated a new ID lol
No point in STW regulating the classifieds, then they would have to start charging for it, which is what we don't want!
Check items over when you get them even if not fitting. Then ping a mail back to the seller saying all is well / or not well. Personally if no mail within a 2 weeks of selling then that is that. Tough crap if they haven't fitted them, can't hold onto the money for ever.
Seems like seller has offered a pretty good option to you and if he did not notice any problems when taking them off then you just have to take his word for it.
If you want items that are perfect condition - pay full price in a shop. Then if any problems they have the cashflow to refund / replace. Private sellers are not usually in it to make monet but to fund old / un-needed bits to but new shiny bits!
In the mens public toilets when you give a man a reach around and he comes, hes less inclined to finish you off properly afterwards...
The bitter voice of experience...........................
FAO thatsmyyeti....
[url= http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/profile/thatsmyyeti ]how come you only post or reply to my threads.....are you Pastit in disguise or was that username no longer available??!![/url]
just out of interest 5spot - are you a trader?
by that, I mean buying stuff with the intention of selling it on for a profit?
er no I'm not.
but I am borderline OCD about all things bikes and their bits!
thatsmyyeti - yes, you appear to have a point and from what you and others have said it does seem that FFS is trading and possibly using, how can I put this, less than scrupulous methods of obtaining goods at a reasonable price.
As has been said above, buying a bike supposedly for 'bits for another build' and selling the rest on such a regular basis is definitely constitutes trading.
by that, I mean buying stuff with the intention of selling it on for a profit?
So what if he is? I've done it. I funded my Lyriks buying and selling bike parts from mates/eBay/STW classifides.
I can bought 2 pairs of forks for £40 & £75, serviced them and sold them on for £95 and £155 (good prices) in prefect working order, and I see nothing at all wrong with it, sorry. 🙂
I wouldn't class freeform5spot as a trader!
Just someone who likes changing bike bits a lot. Pretty sure there is a lot of folk on here that would be classed as traders if ff5s is!!
Did the jury decide on the OP?
IMO there's no way you can strip threads by removing bolts without knowing about it, so it seems the brakes were mis-described.
I change my bikes a lot but rarely make a profit. By profit I do not necessarily mean gaining financially in 'hard cash' but by gaining in asset value ie. a bike which is worth more than the initial value prior to commencing trade.
Edit> PP nothing wrong with that and it's swings and roundabouts for most people on here. The point is that at the level FFS is doing it, it should come under a different classification, especially when the goods are knowingly mis-sold or he misrepresents himself to buyers and sellers alike.
So what if he is?
Er.... nothing [does there have to be?], simply asking to clear things up
I agree with Al - the key point is the stripped thread making the brake unusable therefore valueless.
A stripped thread is very obvious when a part is dismantled.
And is the seller bustafajones and did he hump lots of buyers?
Oh and what happened to that guy that DID hump lots of buyers and got gifted stw's biggest ever thread?
For once I agree with TJ. You could not describe something in good condition if it is not functional. That said, the OP should have checked them sooner. Full refund and no hard feelings IMO.
I wouldn't take parts for free off Freeformfivespot, I've had history with him but that's what the search facility is for
but 4 weeks after receiving a second hand part and 7 weeks before you decide to sort it out is a joke, if you want new buy new, I got caught out but you live and learn
Does freeformfivespot post on Bikeradar as Scotts5e or something like that?
A stripped thread is very obvious when a part is dismantled
I beg to differ. It's only obvious when you come to do it up again!
What thread was stripped again? Hang on a minute.........
Right, I've had a reread of the OP
but the worst part is the one of the clamp bolt holes is bored(?) and wont bite
I'm assuming that's lever clamp?
D'ya know what I'd do? I'd go bolt hunting for one a bit longer or with a different thread pitch.
Sometimes a longer bolt will find a purchase on it's own (This is how my back brake caliper is currently held on, and has been for a year or more!)
Sometimes you can put a nut on the other end (Did this on a stripped Hope disc thread)
Sometimes a finer thread will bite in a stripped one
That doesn't really help though does it? 😉
I agree with TJ too. A stripped thread would have been obvious.
From memory (and it is going back 10 weeks now I guess), the bolts were loosened but not removed when taking off my bike and i dont recall re-tightening them before posting out.
I just can't get over the cheek!!!
20 odd pages selling xtr xo chris king boutique bikes and general carbon fiber lovelyness just to fund your hobby?
Over to you again I think