Got a link? Reckon I’d struggle to commit north of 100k into a single bike.
haha me too, typo, meant 4 and 5 figures!!
weeksy - unless that vid is flattening it all out much more than is obvious I as a really old mincer would happily ride that on my hardtail - slower of course but it looks easier than laggan black which I have been down on my hardtail
LOL yeah…. ummmmm errrrrm. Sure.
I'm shit at riding but I'd happily ride that on my 100mm travel hardtail without a dropper.
weeksy – unless that vid is flattening it all out much more than is obvious I as a really old mincer would happily ride that on my hardtail – slower of course but it looks easier than laggan black which I have been down on my hardtail
HArdtail woudn't be nice, but yes is completely OK...
But it makes me laught with things like the BMX track, when BPW is so far from that it's ridiculous... but the internet heros tell me all the time that FoD is the easiest place in the world and Southern Enduros are for 6 year old girls on pink basket bikes 🙂
I just find it amusing.
I as a really old mincer would happily ride that on my hardtail – slower of course
Most things can be ridden slowly on any bike but who wants to ride slowly? 😉
Yes. Two bikes ,rigid on one 29er, still fine for be bashing, old giant reign, really struggled now even with some modernisation as my most ridden mtb, bike parks, winch and plummet, woods funs trails. A second hand replacement is looking like £1700. Usually I would have upgraded as I went but the standards change have made that impossible so the bike has just got more and more out of date with the push to make bikes more like cars that you replace the entire bike.
It's getting pricy isn't it?
On the plus side, R&D seems to have completely stopped in the non-E bike world so my 2019 bike is, as far as I can tell, still up to date with all the current standards and fashions, other than I went with a 275, I've been window shopping and aside from some shiny paint I don't think I'd gain much from a new bike at the moment... well unless I want a motor or bigger wheels.
I'll be happier when consumables are more available, and hopefully we'll go back to a time when RRPs were sort of a guide and not set in stone.
Most things can be ridden slowly on any bike but who wants to ride slowly?
me. the longer you are riding the more fun 😉
with the push to make bikes more like cars that you replace the entire bike.
This +1, my only complete new bike was 30 odd yrs ago, now I'm just sticking with 9sd & qr axles, can't be bothered with keeping up with the arms race for the riding I do. Recon I've got enough bikes & spares to see me until I have to go E bike in my old age
with the push to make bikes more like cars that you replace the entire bike.
Buying a frame and components separately is very much a UK thing. The two biggest markets for MTB USA and Germany, buying a complete new bike is more the norm.
The new stuff is silly prices especially consumables like drivetrains. Im still happy on my bikes with 10 speed and also happily still run a 2x9 speed. Some complete new bike prices seem way too high now. 6k is crazy money. The industry is forever getting cleverer at convincing people to "change and upgrade". in the main the improvements are quite marginal.
Depends where you expenditure priorities are I'd say. I don't spend a lot on anything else, so have pretty decent bikes. Other people spend on leasing a car, or have a wife that insists they need a new extension on the house, etc.
in the main the improvements are quite marginal
Not always. Each year the geometry is slightly tweaked but my current trail bike is from 2007 and all those tweaks add up to a huge change between that bike and any I could buy now.
or have a wife that insists they need a new extension on the house
Sexist much?
LOL yeah…. ummmmm errrrrm. Sure.
The really big stuff is, yeah, otherwise it would be lethal.
That isn't but also not at all that worrying for a hardtail. My point about seemingly not being able to do blacks on a hardtail sans dropper still stands, you are right though, I worded it badly.
6k is crazy money
I bought a £6K bike back in 2018 after saving and a bit of a bonus from work. It's not totally crazy, and I don't think that I'm somehow an outlier for wages or commitment of my monthly wage. What I will say is that for the £6K I've not had to change a thing (other than some cockpit changes) and I've just replaced worn parts.
Oh, and while you can ride BPW on a hardtail, some of the drops on the blacker trails would test my ankles fo'shure I don't think I'd want to do all day on one
Buying a frame and components separately is very much a UK thing. The two biggest markets for MTB USA and Germany, buying a complete new bike is more the norm.
I'm not on about building a custom new bike more the ability to triggers broom your bike that have been lost. As a part breaks wearout renew with the updated version then every so often a new frame to fully pull yourself upto date.
Depends where you expenditure priorities are I’d say
Depends on your expenditure commitments I would say.
30k single living in a cheap area can have much much more disposal income than 50+k, kids, parents in an expensive area.
I’m not on about building a custom new bike more the ability to triggers broom your bike that have been lost. As a part breaks wearout renew with the updated version then every so often a new frame to fully pull yourself upto date.
There seems to be a reluctance to triggers broom stuff too, based on what I’ve read on more NA centric forums. ‘Why spend xxx on a part when xxxx will get me a whole new, up to date bike’. On stuff that’s rarely more than 3 years old.
Horses for courses.
I paid £675 for a Voodoo Bizango hardtail and another £80 (Maxxis Forekaster) on new tires when the originals (Maxxis Ardent OEM) had sidewall tears. I only do XC/bridleways and low speed trails (I'm unskilled!). The bike has been brilliant and got me out into the fresh air and kept me fit. The only issues I have now are comfort on long rides (saddle!) and brake performance on very steep hills (rotors and better pads?).
I'd say I've been priced into biking!
I'd say that the only thing preventing a 26" full suspension Trigger's broom would be linkage or rear triangle related and that's not due to changing standards. It'll be difficult enough to find a chainstay for a 3 year old boost 29er for example, let alone something pre 2015.
or have a wife that insists they need a new extension on the house
Sexist much?
Maybe. Realist from what I've seen in my own family.
There seems to be a reluctance to triggers broom stuff too
Consumerism push, buy on credit etc, spend yourself poor mentality, then moan about the rich you have just given all you income to in subscriptions, loans etc.
It part of the own, nothing, the model of ownership is dead it's good for the consumer, it's what customers want bullshit
I’d say that the only thing preventing a 26″ full suspension Trigger’s broom would be linkage or rear triangle related
Add tapered forks , so you're at new wheels, frame forks to upgrade in one hit so even if you have tapered steer I think that removes the triggers broom
Add taped forks , so you’re at new wheels, frame forks to upgrade in one hit so even if you have tapered steer I think that removes the triggers broom
But as long as the steerer is long enough you can fit tapered forks into a straight frame can't you with a headset spacer thing ?
Edit : That may be completely wrong and completely daft.... dunnno now.
No.
Wheel will not fit though, so you will need to upgrade wheels
Well they will fit but 26" in 29er will be a bit odd!
A Marin Team Titanium was £5k back in the early 90s. No suspension, cantis, skinny tyres.
I paid £2k for a Mount Vision in 1999 - 83mm travel, 3x8 XT (40th Birthday). £2.4k for an Anthem X1 in 2009 - 100mm travel, 3x9 XT (50th birthday). I paid £3.5k for a Jeffsy CF Pro in late 2016 - 140mm both ends, full carbon, carbon cranks, carbon wheels, 1x11 X01, Reverb (wasn't sure I'd make it to 60). Of these, the Jeffsy is the standout for value and things have clearly gone in the wrong direction since then. But look at it like this - the £2k that the Mount Vision cost would be £3693 today, and anything you could buy today for that would be a massively better bike, whether or not it had XT on it. So I'm really not sure about the 'priced out' bit, you will get a better bike for the same money adjusted for inflation. And as many have pointed out, riding your bike doesn't really depend so much on money - I get just as much pleasure out of riding my 26" rigid steel singlespeed as I do out of riding the Jeffsy. Any bike is better than no bike.
I have a confession to make, which might either label me as a pauper or a tight-arse (or it might not, who knows?) but in 35 years of riding and sometimes racing mountain bikes I have never, ever gone out and bought a new bike, or even a new frame.
This whole “factory fresh” idea is, for some odd reason, one that has no special appeal for me - it’s not just bikes either, all but one of my electric basses were bought second hand - and I have some pretty nice basses....
I was out riding a few days ago with an old friend ( both on RM Altitude e-mtbs, both purchased used) and I managed to rip the rear mech clean off mine.( 80 of my finest pounds then) So I shortened the chain and rode it home as a singlespeed - it worked surprisingly well tbh....
Anyway, it got me thinking back to how some of my best and most enjoyable rides were maybe ten or twelve years ago when all I rode were rigid singlespeeds - nice ones, but rigid steel singlespeeds nonetheless. No suspension to faff with, no mechs to rip off in the middle of nowhere, no endless bloody cleaning after every winter ride but just fun, as I said to my mate -like being kids again playing about on pushbikes.
I do still ride singlespeeds but only alone - at 70 I’m not out with the young ‘duro dudes (not on a rigid SS) or xc racing whippets and pretty much everyone else I know rides e-bikes 100% of the times, including my mate.
It’s probably one of the things that most saddens me - that I’ll never be able to relive those days.
More random bullshit from an old man then.....
Frustrating OP hasn't at least set out his budget and current ride.
5 pages over how long is a piece of string.
As for rear cassettes as a measure of value, its doing more heavy lifting now than in the 3x and 2x era, of course it will be more expensive. Manufacturers have effectively moved the front rings onto the cassette, so we’re still paying for them.
True, but I think 1x leads to more expensive, less durable drivetrain components overall. Cassettes now have massive, alloy low gears, and relying on n/w teeth for chain retention means that chainrings are more sensitive to wear. And, of course, you spend more time riding with worse chainlines.
Maybe. Realist from what I’ve seen in my own family.
At the risk of derailing the thread, taking what one woman has done and extrapolating it to the rest of womankind is literally sexist, and then claiming it's realism is even more so.
Anyway. Last year we had to change two cars and we also landscaped the garden which cost as much as a decent bike. We could have ignored the garden and I could have blown the lot on a bike for myself, but I don't think I could be that selfish. If I spend money on a bike it has to be truly disposable. We need a new carpet and a new sofa, these are things that will benefit the family as our house will be nicer. Then I need to start putting a fair bit more money into my pension, as it's quite crap atm; and we need to save for a new house as ours isn't ideal.
All more important than toys for me. That's where money goes.
I think 1x leads to more expensive, less durable drivetrain components overall.
Only the cassette is significantly more. And last time I bought one it was only about £45 for SLX which is what, double the cost of 9sp? Admittedly this was before the big price shocks.
Add tapered forks , so you’re at new wheels, frame forks to upgrade in one hit so even if you have tapered steer I think that removes the triggers broom
It'll be more practical to change the fork internals. If the stantions are damaged, that's another kettle of fish, but let's be honest; few people are going to buy a brand new fork for a bike that old.
Yes its got daft. I'm hoping more bands offer the customisation options like Cotic or Bird where you can buy the base spec and then just upgrade the bits that you think count (i.e. Forks / Shock). I have no interest in XT / XTR or a Burgtec Stem etc.
Ok, I'll reword my sentence slightly so as not to upset molgrip's delicate feminist sensibilities:
"Other people have a wife or husband that insists they need a new extension on the house, or spend on leasing a car" 😆
the fuel costs going up I feel priced out of getting to places to ride
Timely email from my energy company - [i]You’re currently paying £95.00 a month for your energy. To cover your usage, we believe this needs to increase to £130.00 a month.[/i]
You can buy a boardman hardtail for £650 which would be perfectly fine for most of the riding most of us do. Sure its not enough for the riding gods and the fork will be pretty basic but there is nowt actually wrong with it. a fine base to up0grade from I would have thought
I’ll be happier when consumables are more available, and hopefully we’ll go back to a time when RRPs were sort of a guide and not set in stone.
Yes this last year all my spares / consumables have been bought at RRP when I can find them in stock somewhere. But that's only a temporary supply/demand missmatch caused by Covid etc.
There seems to be a reluctance to triggers broom stuff too,
which seems bizzare.
If I wanted to "upgrade" my current trail bike, the only meaningful upgrade would be to go to a big wheeler, unless I was to drastically switch disciplines and required a xc or enduro race machine.
so I'd probably be doing the following.
New frame ~1400 to match the current level of blingness of my current frame
New forks £700 which would be an improvement over my current forks
New rims and a relace ~200?
£2300 minus what I could sell the older stuff for (£600 maybe? for a 3 year old bird with paint damage, and non-boost 650b pikes)
So £1700, and I'll have a trail bike with top end suspension, fully kitted out with Hope, saint and AXS bits. Just if I'm willing (or rather, have the knowledge and ability and contacts) to put the effort in.
TWO HUNDRED!
(It used to be one hundred but everything has gone up)
You can buy a boardman hardtail for £650 which would be perfectly fine for most of the riding most of us do.
What riding is that?
I think 1x leads to more expensive, less durable drivetrain components overall.
Only the cassette is significantly more. And last time I bought one it was only about £45 for SLX which is what, double the cost of 9sp? Admittedly this was before the big price shocks.
Posted 15 minutes ago
Cheap compared with SRAM Red Road cassette at £340!
https://www.sigmasports.com/item/SRAM/XG-1290-AXS-12-Speed-Cassette/KXF6
There seems to be a reluctance to triggers broom stuff too,
Lot's of cash-rich, time-poor people out there - so just drop it off at the bike shop.
And probably a lot who won't risk their cack-handedness on frames costing £2.5k upwards and forks costing £1k.
So £1700
So about the same as the hit on selling a reasonably new bike to fund an actual new bike?
Cheap compared with SRAM Red Road cassette at £340!
IIRC the RRP of an XX1 rainbow cassette starts with a 4.
Edit Yep, not even the latest version
My regular reminder that the average price of a new bike in the UK is (probably?) still less than £500.
There seems to be a reluctance to triggers broom stuff too,
I've always done this but my 2007 bike is just too old to upgrade. Only the drivetrain, brakes and bar/stem/saddle are transferrable. Assuming I don't want to go 1x12, which I would prefer...!
When I got back into bikes I bought pretty battered frame and got a new paint job, looked and felt like a brand new bike. Sometimes that's all it takes, although I appreciate it's a little pricier these days. But I'm planning that with my current bikes.
There seems to be a reluctance to triggers broom stuff too,
This +1, my only complete new bike was 30 odd yrs ago, now I’m just sticking with 9sd & qr axles, can’t be bothered with keeping up with the arms race for the riding I do
For the riding you do.
For the riding I do it'd be crap/dangerous/un-comfy/slow etc.
“relying on n/w teeth for chain retention means that chainrings are more sensitive to wear”
I’ve found that one steel narrow-wide ring lasts about as long as six cassettes. Even the alloy ones will handle a lot of mileage because the teeth are so much thicker than shifting chainrings.
However I’m about to try singlespeed on my forthcoming 160mm 29” hardtail and although it isn’t a cost thing I’m sure that’s had a subsconscious effect on this (possibly silly) idea…
I think we're about to enter the hammerited singlespeed pub bike being the unicorn that can satisfy everyone from DH racing to XC racing snakes ;o)
What riding is that?
the riding that most of us ( not all do). You know bimbling out in the woods, mucking around on bridleways / paths,
It might not suit how you ride now but that boardman will be as competent if not more so than a posh bike from many years ago. 120 mm of oil damped travel compared to 80mm of elastomers etc etc. Proper disc brakes as well
sure if you are doing big jumps and so on then its not enough bike but for an entry level bike is perfectly competent and usable and at £650 is not expensive at all
the riding that most of us ( not all do). You know bimbling out in the woods, mucking around on bridleways / paths,
How do you know what most STWers do?
I agree about the Boardman, and I'd ride one if I didn't have the choice. Although I'd rather have a Whyte 604. More hardcore geo. There are loads and loads of great hardtails around for decent money with modern geo. It's FS that gets expensive.
“ the riding that most of us ( not all do). You know bimbling out in the woods, mucking around on bridleways / paths”
This is an excellent example of observer bias! If this what most on STW do, who are the people starting most of the threads in the bike forum?
Surely TJ is just using a more inclusive version of "we" than just the inhabitants of this forum? I can't see the need for the aggressive responses.
Anyway, a £500 MTB will easily cope with all the grrravel stuff.
the riding that most of us ( not all do)
You may be correct, but that is quite a big assumption. Whilst I could ride a bike like that and get away with it, it would be pretty crap for a lot of the peaks/lakes/n.wales routes i do. And i certainly don't see my riding as gnarr to the max or wildly different to what a lot of folks on here seem to ride etc.
MOst MTBers. You know - the same folk that make blues more popular than black runs at trail centres. the same folk that ride bridleways not DH tracks. The people that buy MTBs
STW is not representative and those starting threads on the bike from are not representative either
If I was racing I'd say yeah, for sure. Enduro FS bikes are getting wildly expensive and the abuse they take over a season is incredible even just as a weekend warrior.
I don't race any more (more to do with the fact that I didn't really enjoy it, especially as children came along) and I'm happy with what I have. My main bike is a Stooge so it's a bit out there anyway which stops it going 'obsolete' to a certain extent. I guess I'm in a lucky position where I can do all my own work and I couldn't really care less what gear it runs on it so long as it works
You can buy a boardman hardtail for £650 which would be perfectly fine for most of the riding most of us do. .....there is nowt actually wrong with it. a fine base to up0grade from I would have thought
Which is it?
It's either fine, or it needs upgrades.
If it needs upgrades then it's, by definition, not fine.
MOst MTBers. You know – the same folk that make blues more popular than black runs at trail centres. the same folk that ride bridleways not DH tracks. The people that buy MTBs
STW is not representative and those starting threads on the bike from are not representative either
But they are most representitive on the forum on which you're discussing the exact subject ?
Brand new cassette for £30: https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m8b0s150p3255/SHIMANO-9spd-Alivio-CS-HG400
I built up a new bike last summer. I deliberately got one with "out of date" specs (QR wheels, 27.2mm seatpost, 1 1/8" headset, etc) so that it would be cheaper to keep running and for cross compatibility with my other bikes. The brake levers were second hand when I bought them 15 years ago, the front wheel is shared between two bikes as is the saddle and seatpost, stem was a spare after a swap on another bike.
I'd happily ride it down the stuff in that Rob Warner video. In fact, I'd ride my 'road' bike down that.
I'd like to know what trails you could get down on a more expensive bike with similar travel that you couldn't get down on these.
or this
https://alpkit.com/products/sonder-evol-29-xt.
One of these is going to be my next bike as I try to keep up with my kids
MOst MTBers. You know – the same folk that make blues more popular than black runs at trail centres. the same folk that ride bridleways not DH tracks. The people that buy MTBs
When I am out that way I see by far the most MTBers at places like Wylie, coming out of the scary looking steep trails down the mountainside. I see far fewer on the 'normal' trails.
There are of course loads of people trundling around easy trails on any old bike, which is fine, but this is an enthusiast MTB forum and there are lots of people who ride technical trails regularly and quickly, so that is who the question is aimed at.
I’d like to know what trails you could get down on a more expensive bike with similar travel that you couldn’t get down on these.
As we've said dozens of times, it's not about simply getting down a trail, it's about enjoying it. I got down Cwmcarn downhill on a 21lb super light XC 26er, and I could do it all day. And whilst it was reasonably entertaining it wasn't as much fun as pushing myself on a 180mm bike.
it will be a basic fork. Upgrading the fork would be worthwhile
Ok tho - you are right. Its impossible to ride offroad at all unless you have a five grand gnarpoon. I obviously dreamed that I have enjoyed GT red and laggan black on my 25 yr old hardtail with a ten yr old fork and that my five year old 800 quid fatbike is a fine thing to ride out in the mountains and at trail centres
Molgrips - there was some FC research a few years ago that showed the blue trails were by far the most used IIRC
I obviously dreamed that I have enjoyed GT red and laggan black on my 25 yr old hardtail with a ten yr old fork and that my five year old 800 quid fatbike is a fine thing to ride out in the mountains and at trail centres
YOU enjoyed it, yes. Great. Others though might have different expectations and desires.
Nope. I mean, I definitely won't be buying a new bike! But then I've only ever bought 3 new bikes in my life and none of them was over £500. Used, a couple of years old, has always been the way. Build it how you want it, better than how the brand manager wants it.
And my dh bike is 15 years old! With a bunch of more modern upgrades. Is it cutting edge? No. Is it better than it was when it was new? Yes. Was that good enough to do anything I'd do on a brand new bike? Absolutely.
Consumables are my only "HOW MUCH" moment really, because I have a taste for good tyres, it's the one thing I hate to compromise on. Good tyres aren't always expensive of course but even cheap good tyres are getting pricier
TL;DR- it's mostly an issue for magpies and people who NEED the latest and greatest or the exact same thing as they wore out or whatever they've been recommended.
Surely TJ is just using a more inclusive version of “we” than just the inhabitants of this forum? I can’t see the need for the aggressive responses.
It's all just wahwahwah I'm more extreme than you! silliness.
[£1700] So about the same as the hit on selling a reasonably new bike to fund an actual new bike?
the slightly eclectic spec means my current bike would never fetch anywhere near £2k. A savvy buyer could probably profit off it buy buying and breaking it up though.
getting as close as I can on spec on the Bird online builder, plus adding on the AXS dropper means well north of £4.5k for an equivilent new bike. And that from a brand known for good value builds.
@tjagain i do exactly that type of riding that you mentioned earlier.
even though i have been riding on and off mountain biking since 1988 i will happily admit i am not a riding god. i also have never been to a trail centre or ridden abroad in my life.
my kinesis sync ti ht will be deemed ancient now even though i only bought it 4 years ago (the frame was on special offer on the kenesis web site hence why i bought it).
it is 27.5" wheel size and also doesn't have a wheelbase that stretches 2 counties but i love the bike and have no intention of getting rid of it. it is a way better bike than my riding skill will ever be.
am not knocking the new bikes i will also add. just that my bike is more than good enough for me.
i ride the ridgeway/marlbrough downs/salisbury plain as my local offroad rides (no car so cannot travel further afield).
Add tapered forks , so you’re at new wheels, frame forks to upgrade in one hit so even if you have tapered steer I think that removes the triggers broom
You can get aftermarket straight steerers for tapered forks.
You can get aftermarket straight steerers for tapered forks.
Where's that from? The only ones I've seen say maximum recommended 120mm travel.
https://www.ndtuned.com/en/tubo-de-direccao.php
Could I buy a modern 27.5 frame, fit a straight steerer fork and somehow adapt my 15x135 rear hub to it? And run 26" wheels?
Edit: I think I've asked this before. I don't think I can boostinate Hope ProIIs
Anyway, this thread sent me on a tour of ebay and I may have found a decent source of 2nd hand straight steerer forks for cheap but not crapped out so I'm going to give them a try, I reckon.
15×135 rear hub
Bollocks, another standard I've never heard of!
Could I buy a modern 27.5 frame, fit a straight steerer fork and somehow adapt my 15×135 rear hub to it? And run 26″ wheels?
depends on the hub but yes. Would recommend overforking - or in your case, getting a frame with less recommended travel than your current 26er, and running the rear suspension firm to compensate for the low BB height though.
It’s good to hear that many of the replies are from people who have not been priced out of it and are finding ways to keep rolling, some that seem to need massive dedication or time.
I still think there are plenty of us who know EXACTLY what we want, brands/spec/components/bikes/whatever and now have to choose to pay more for less. Several times in the past year I’ve chosen to not pay more and ride less. Which sucks for me.
‘Just get a budget hardtail from Aldi’ is missing the point completely.
i ride the ridgeway/marlbrough downs/salisbury plain as my local offroad rides (no car so cannot travel further afield).
Trains are available...
Thread hijack, but I wonder about this Vitus Sommet 27.5 with a Marzocchi 66 SL with travel adjust and 26" wheels... It apparently has a flip chip which might have a higher BB setting. Would need new boost cranks tho, and maybe a new rear hub but that's not so bad.
Or the Reactor for a bit less travel and more climbing ability.
I run an old (1998 or 1999) lightweight 26" 100mm HT and a 27.5" 130mm full sus and can't see me replacing either any time soon although I will have to at some point.
It used to be easy to upgrade MTB's with all bikes having 9mm QR axles, 26" wheels etc etc. now the only parts I can swap between the bikes I own are the handlebars, saddle and brakes. I will struggle to get good wheels for the 26" when I pancake my last set and will have the same problem with the 27.5" at some point as its not a boost axle frame.
I think this has been the plan all along, through obsolescence force those of us that buy parts and service bikes forever to buy a new bike. Evil capitalist bike companies! Lol
I still think there are plenty of us who know EXACTLY what we want, brands/spec/components/bikes/whatever and now have to choose to pay more for less.
I want loads of stuff. Instead I race enduro on an uncool cheaper frame. Still Rips though