Just thinking out loud, I wonder how and when the first e-bike/pedestrian accident will be reported, and whether it and subsequent collisions will perhaps trigger a change of rules from the policy makers.
It's been a few years now and we're still waiting on this wean getting its eye poked out! 😆
I don’t think an e-mtb passing over the ground causes any more erosion than a normal mtb,
It does. Maybe not "passing over the ground", but in other scenarios they definitely make a bigger mark on the ground.
Saw a big group of old lads (and ladies) started the climb up Cragg Road this morning. About 50/50 ebikes and not. Looked happy enough riding together to me. If you're super competitive or impatient, then perhaps buying an ebike might lead to you wanting to only ride with other people on ebikes, no one else should care.
Outside the rarified atmosphere of STW are many thousands of people who have neither the money or the desire to spend it on £500 of bike let alone several thousands so let’s just keep some perspective.
true, but ride-to-work schemes can sell a lot of bikes for retailers and the limit can go over £1000 now. E bikes can be had for £1000 already, most aren't that great but it will improve and putting them in front of people in shops vs online only bans will help. E-MTB will be carried or helped along by the growth of E bikes generally, plenty of E-MTBs are bought and used as the bike equivalent of an SUV rather than for 'mountain biking' as such.
RE all the sky-falling-in stuff about licensing after any accident backlash etc, they're already in law as bikes if they're EPAC spec, highly unlikely to change. DfT released a report not long ago suggesting little interest in further legislation on electric transport like bikes and scooters. Resource or political will unlikely to be there anyway. Can't see how that would happen just based on a rut 10% deeper than current bikes make either.
Round my way E-Bikes are being ridden on trails that are rubbish in the wet on a normal bike and so subsequently would be left alone until dry. Now the erosion caused by a group of +tyred mopeds plowing through the mud has wrecked a number of trails beyond repair.
In reality, they’ll be more expensive, less demand, less manufactured, more expensive.
I presume you mean fewer manufactured. How can a bike be less manufactured?
As for the OP, "social outcasts" seems to be putting it a bit strong. In a minority, possibly.
Now the erosion caused by a group of +tyred mopeds plowing through the mud has wrecked a number of trails beyond repair.
I remember a few years ago spending about 3 hours digging out slop and packing down good earth on a DH section of trail before a jump. Just as I’m stood there leaning on my spade admiring my work a group of maybe 15 Lycra clad XC boys churned their way up the trail right through my just repaired section.
This was pre-ebike days.
Wadda ya gona do?
Way to go with the pedant points nico.
As for the erosion issue, what exactly is the issue? If it wasn't for erosion that wee ribbon of singletrack you love so much on your local trails wouldn't exist.
Or is your level of erosion acceptable, wholesome, almost righteous? 🤣
It’s really not, and I ride my Bronson with a few mates on ebikes. Keeps me on my toes!.
I would suggest that perhaps they're very patient or you're a fair bit quicker uphill.
And it simply is a different pursuit. The two can be combined, but you can't say you're getting the same experience as them for a variety of reasons. (Not that I have any objection to them being out there and used by folk).
If you have absolutely no interest or take no enjoyment out of riding up a hill I see that an ebike would be the way forward. But for those that get enjoyment from going both up and down i cant see an ebike holding much appeal, at least not if you are physically able to pedal a normal bike.
I can see the market therefore for those long travel ebikes, however I fail to see why anyone, other than someone old or with a medical condition, would choose a road ebike over a normal one. The only exception being if a super keen roadie bought his wife one (or vice versa) so they could go riding together.
I joined one of my local groups, Calderdale MTB for a rare group ride on Wed night, 18 riders no e-bikes and a mixed bunch age wise, although mostly under 50 yrs old. In fact, so far not one of the people I ride with has succumbed.
On the flip side another local group of riders who are over 50yrs old are now over 50% e bikes.
Most people I know seem to agree that they look fun and as somebody already said if you lived near somewhere like the Golfie it would be a no brainer.
On a personal note I'm not really the target audience as while I can probably afford to buy a decent one I couldn't bring myself to spend that much money.
Ach, I'm out, another e-groundhog thread.
Do what you want, and stop moaning about what others are doing*.
*Though, I love a moan as much as the next man! 🙂
With the introduction of ebikes for kids, we may well end up with people who would never need to consider a non-bike.
My local riding "Group" IS now two groups, those with e and those without. In reality, with riders of similar fitness, the non e's can't hope to keep up with the e's, because they have twice the power, and you'd have to be a World class XC rider to keep up.
The other interesting thing is that in the e group, everyone also has an off road motorcycle, and had been an off road motor cyclist for years. Not sure what that shows but there is a strong correlation?
I think on bigger rides evokes can really push a gap in between abilities, both positively ie you can now keep up with your fitter mates or negatively you’re basically riding in your own as you don’t produce 250watts let alone have them on tap!! But it all comes down to not being a tool about it on a group ride, line if you’re a lot fitter then you don’t need to hammer everyone every time!
As for making things easier realistically there’s not many MTBers who recreationally ride once twice a week say that will be able to know out a day long Lakes ride and feel fresh as a daisy afterwards!! The Ebike fills that gap and that’s cool.
I’m prob the ideal Ebike candidate but Ive just bought a “analogue” (I love that phrase! 😂) bike as I want to use it to get fitter and don’t Mind that my rides will get proportionally longer as I do.
I’m surprised at how many Enikes are about mind you they almost rival Santa Cruz at Whinlatter now....😈
“E-bikes are an increasing problem,” said Gale Gould, vice-chairwoman of the Friends of the New Forest in Hampshire.
Interesting. All my riding is in the New Forest and I would estimate the number of E-Bikes to non E-Bikes that I see is well under 1%. Gale sounds like a typical bitter and entitled New Forest resident, they also hate immigrants but we don't have those either.
I want more E-Bikes on road and gravel as they give me something to pace going uphill.
You have to remember that motorbikes have been around for more than 100 years. There's a reason people still pedal around on bicycles rather than just jumping in a car and having the highest level of comfort possible.
The appeal of eBikes is understandable, and it will continue to grow. There was a time I probably would have lusted after one, but nowadays I go out more for the pedal up the hills than the ride back down.
There was a time I probably would have lusted after one, but nowadays I go out more for the pedal up the hills than the ride back down.
I'm nearly at that point as well. Nearly 60 and I'm finding it harder to go fast on narrow downhill singletrack, my eyes seem to loose focuse and my balance starts to go. The faster and more bumby things are the worse it gets. My fitness is still good so attacking climbs and taking things a bit easier descending makes sense for me at the moment.
E-biking up the hills would remove that challenge and enjoyment.
I wonder how many of you have ridden an ebike? You have to pedal or it doesn’t go! If you like pedalling you still pedal hard, you just go faster.
Today I rode 14 miles with 1400’ of climbing for commuting reasons, both on and off road and jumped some doubles - in under an hour of cycling.
Tell us more about those sweet commuter doubles Chief.
Middle aged fitness snobbery and deluded fitness pride bores me rigid.
er... wait. no.. not rigid. limp!
honestly I'm not aroused at all.
well.. ok. maybe a little.
I think/hope e-bikes will fizzle out as people get fed up with their whizzy little motors wearing out and their 5K toy not working any more. They probably won't feel like stumping up for another one every few years, well some will but not the majority.
Just like I'd love all car drivers to be forced into riding a bike for a while, I'd love all mtb'ers to be forced to ride a single speed for a winter. Aaahh, the silence! Something that's been lost in the new generation of assisted cycles. Whrrrrrrr, whrrrrr, whrrrrrr, the sound of an electric drill taped to your bike. Great!
I'm not saying riding an ebike is "easy" because all they do is boost the riders input, but in the uk, where more time is spent going up (because the average speed is much lower) an ebike provides, ime, an un-beatable advantage. On my local loop, the guys on ebikes can actually ride every "run" twice in the time it takes me to ride it once, and whilst i'm no cross country whippet, i'm not that slow either! This isn't necessarily a bad thing, they get twice the miles (if not twice the smiles...) but it does preclude riding together ime, because waiting for a normal non e'd up rider to get up a climb feels like an eternity, time there riders would rather spend doing more riding!
I’d love all mtb’ers to be forced to ride a single speed for a winter.
Bloody hell, the purist caliphate is forming right here on STW.
I’d love all mtb’ers to be forced to ride a single speed for a winter.
I've done over a decades worth of that shit before realising how shit it was.😁
Been up in Inners this week and ridden 7 days on the trot with around 1300 meters of descending every day apart from today when we did 1900 meters
All on ebikes apart from 1 day on a non assisted bike.
Did I miss my single speed at any point?
I'll let you guess 😆
Just checking something, are you saying you’ve spent an entire week riding at Innerleithen?
Inners,Golfie,GT and Yair.
Still not riden all the trails.
Didn't have time to get over Thornielee this trip.
Why?
See I like the challenge of riding up hill, I like a not too heavy bike (especially off road) but I can see one use that would completely drive me to E-Bikery...
Commuting, if I ride to work its 16-20 miles each way with a laptop and a few other bits (say 5-10kg of luggage, tools and water), it's undulating and plenty of stopping at lights etc. I reckon the shortest distance commute at rush hour is easily 30 miles worth of "riding in the countryside" road riding because of the constant stopping and starting and compromising on flow to deal with other traffic.
An e-tourer or e-hybrid using a low-ish assist setting would I think be a really interesting way to make that commute viable for someone (me) who is not mega fit but loves riding a bike but doesn't want to take 90minutes to get to work and arrive tired. This for me is the potential future of e-bikes.
Going back to the original question, i think we've past the tipping point now, a lot of focus and money is being spent on developing E-Bikes, take up is getting better and with the cycle to work scheme and others assisting sales, i can't see it falling away, only getting more of a demand which will in turn drive more innovation.
As for my opinion, i love E-Bikes, never had one, or used one, but i think they get people who wouldn't normally do stuff out and about, up FoD, Cwmcarn, etc i see people enjoying mountain biking that wouldn't be at those places without the assist, i also see people who are way fitter than me using them and still burning as much energy as i do, they just get twice the distance in a day. There's definitely a place for E-Bikes in almost every avenue of cycling, just wish they were cheaper!
I have done 3 mtb events this year that had ebike classes ( Boltby bash enduro and a couple of mtb challenges) very few ebikes entered on any of them,I think there is a long way to go before they become the norm, I bought a Vitus e sommet last July and although it's fun to ride I prefer my Pace RC529 hardtail
" plenty of E-MTBs are bought and used as the bike equivalent of an SUV rather than for ‘mountain biking’ as such."
Yo. Buying a full suspension ebike with suspended rack for comfort/commuting, that's an SUV if ever there was one. Nearly bought a full suspension cargo bike but it wouldn't fit in the work bike racks.
Seriously though I'm obese class 2 (there are no obese-r classes) and riding my acoustic bike is too much effort for me to do every day, I end up drenched with sweat and entirely inappropriate for an office environment so I just don't do it. The few times I've done it with a rented ebike have been amazing. It's knocked tens of minutes off my usually hour or so commute and I've arrived fresh as a daisy. If I want to put some effort in on the way home I still can, as evidenced by a recent ebike hire in the lakes. While on full assistance (to catch up with my wife who had given up halfway and was going back) I was dripping with sweat from a trip starting at the ferry crossing by Bowness, going up to High Wray, then on to Wray Castle and back again. It was great fun and not something I'd have ever been able/willing to tackle on an acoustic bike.
Are ebikes reaching a critical mass? I don't think so, but I hope so, there are an awful lot of fat folk in the world who could do with fun exercise enabling for them. If it takes money to do so, so be it.
.
I wonder how many of you have ridden an ebike? You have to pedal or it doesn’t go!
I have ridden one and although you have to pedal going up a hill at 15mph is A LOT less work than going up a hill at 15mph on a non e-bike. I have also followed one up a mostly uphill 3 mile gravel road and while I was putting in everything I have to maintain 15mph the e-bike rider was sat up just casually spinning the pedals around.
“I have ridden one and although you have to pedal going up a hill at 15mph is A LOT less work than going up a hill at 15mph on a non e-bike.“
Well, duh!
But you’re looking at it the wrong way around. I pedal just as hard a lot of the time but go faster.
Or when I’m with my mates on non-e bikes, most of the time I turn the assistance off.
Inners,Golfie,GT and Yair.
Still not riden all the trails.
Didn’t have time to get over Thornielee this trip.
Why?
Just me gaining a little insight. That’s the sort of trip I’d never consider and have no interest in. Although I can see the appeal, I can’t recall empathise with it.
Why would it be an issue? E bikes don’t have higher top speeds, they just go faster up climbs. I spend a lot of my rides going 15mph or more on my normal bike.
Ah, but it it doesn't stop there. As per my recent thread. The deristricted ones are troubling. Max Power mind-set.
I’d never consider and have no interest in.
You're missing out then.
All those miles of hand built trails are a lot more interesting than any gravel road.😉
Ebikes aren't for me, yes I've tried them - they're fun but I prefer my normal full suspension bike as an all rounder. I don't think the general public are going to be all that aware of what an ebike is vs a normal bike - especially the way development is going. What can and does happen though is that irresponsible behaviour is amplified when using ebikes.
Example - couple of weekends ago I took a walk up and around Conic hill. It was midday and busy as usual with walkers. Two lads on ebikes thought it the perfect time and place to do laps - going up the back of the hill via the WHW and DH the front into Balmaha straight into the walkers comming up the narrow steps. Do this once on a normal bike and you're a knob to X amount of people you annoy, do it 3-4 times on an ebike because you can then you're a knob to 3-4X amount of people. Do it early morning or in the evening when it's quiet and no-one is going to care.
You’re missing out then.
All those miles of hand built trails are a lot more interesting than any gravel road.😉
You’d think so but no. I’ve ridden GT and Inners, along with a couple of the D&G Stans, Dalby, Whinlatter, and the topographically challenged Thetford. I’ve even ridden them on an e bike(off the back of one of these threads*). The last two occasions I was in Glentress, I actually completely bypassed the trails as I was using the forest roads to access the far edge of the forest for hill runs.
Anyway, I’m reliably informed by one of the other frequent topics that there aren’t any gravel roads in the UK 🚲🙃
*I did something similar with McDonalds after claims it wasn’t as bad as I was making out. Turned out my recollections were accurate. McDonalds are still ****.
Two of my (older) mates have just bought one each. Both Giant, both have said that they’re best thing they’ve ever done.
Both have been riding road bikes for years, but mostly sail. They’ve organised some long rides on them, done the SDW on them and just generally hack around Kingly Vale on them.
Hard to critique anything when all I see is them having fun.
I myself have always embraced them, thing they’re a good solution for folk that just want a bit of help to get outside and enjoy having fun.
Philosophically, I think that we cross a line when we move from manual anything to motor-assisted.
If MTB is just an activity for thrills, then making the thrills more accessible is fine. But if MTB is a sport... a genuine, physically-demanding sport... then it is diminished by motorising it.
There is a difference, for example, between archery and rifle shooting. If your only purpose is to hit the bullseye, then the tool you use doesn’t matter. But if it is as much about the means of hitting the bullseye, then you can’t say that one instrument will overtake the other. They’re similar, but different. If hunting, the two users can even go out side by side, but the archer who gets the game at 50 yards with a perfect shot will have accomplished something different than the gun user.
In other words, they can exist side by side, but they will always be different.
SaxonRider
In other words, they can exist side by side, but they will always be different.
Spot on, end of thread?👍
piemonster.
I think we rode less than 2 miles of the actual official trails as they're not very interesting.
Being able to ride back to the top at 10mph instead of 5 and being fresh for the next descent meant we could fit in a hell of a lot more trails and also get 7 days in without a rest.
I can't do that on one of my non assisted bikes.
Ah, but it it doesn’t stop there. As per my retarded thread. The deristricted ones are troubling. Max Power mind-set.
You've clearly never actually ridden a derestricted Emtb
They're actually quite hard work to hold at high 20s (mph) on the flat off road. clue: they don't cheat wind resistance or rolling resistance but simply offer a top up in power output.
The assistance also doesn't actually output high torque at high cadences so on normal mtb gearing (which all Emtbs have) above 25mph the motor doesn't actually give a crazy amount of assistance. even in boost/turbo
As already covered a fit rider can hold 20-25mph on the flat on an mtb for short periods of time (dependent on tyre choice and terrain conditions) and sprint to well above 30mph.
I'm not sure why you're even referencing your recent thread when your views (and many others) there were laced with complete ignorance. It's not really the bike that's the problem (derestricted or not) It's the etiquate/common sense/manners of the rider(s) you encountered.
As already covered a fit rider can hold 20-25mph on the flat on an mtb for short periods of time
Yeah. A real short period of time. Very few can hold > 20mph off road on the flat for anything much distance let alone 25 mph.
