Idly browsing last night and took a look at the Swarf website. Ooh….new frames! Both look like updated, longer travel versions of the Contour. Glad to see they have kept the same silhouette. Hands down my favourite looking frame. Anybody got a 155 on order? Anyone need any body parts so I can put a deposit down on a 130?
2.5 k frame only no shock ?
Wow.
Would look good as a mullet mind
Made by one bloke though so not exactly firing them out. Plus looks like a hardtail so even better!
Any links for the lazy?
Love these frames. Developed his own chainstay slapper thing with a built in cable guide jobbie.
Shame I've got a rocketmax on order 👀
I'm loving these. Just the weight... I dont think I'm strong enough to haul it round
As well as looking mighty fine, the 155 is very close to the geometry I'd choose myself.
Really impressed with the attention to detail, including sharing the frame weight (3.7kg with everything apart from shock).
2.5 k frame only no shock ?
Doesn't look so bad now mainstream brand prices have gone so high.
That looks really lovely. Weight isn't that bad for the intended purpose - add 500-600g for something like a Fox X2 and that's ballpark weight.
the price looks really bad when you dive into warranty details.....max user weight kitted up of 90kgs!
The bikes sure do look nice but it's a bit of a poor design and testing regime if you can't make a steel frame and stand behind it's strength unless you weigh under 14stone
The frames are thoroughly tested, maybe look into the current tube supply issues if you want an insight into prices. BTR aren't that far off the mark either.
90kg is also over 14 stone, I'd suggest that's not really an unreasonable limit for a trail bike.
90kg is also over 14 stone, I’d suggest that’s not really an unreasonable limit for a trail bike.
Spits coffee over keyboard - ONS says av uk male weight is 83.6kg......I'd suggest building/warrantying a frame only to ~8% above average weight is v poor.
It's a reasonable weight for a steel FS frame, so the rider weight limit might make sense in that context. I don't see how it impacts on value for those within the weight limit anyway.
The warranty text does seem a touch fussy, but perhaps that's a reflection of the framebuilder's very particular approach?
ONS says av uk male weight is 83.6kg
What does it say about the weight of the average MTBer?
Spits coffee over keyboard – ONS says av uk male weight is 83.6kg
Yes and have you seen the state of the average UK male. They are hardly a picture of someone who cycles/exercises are they.
Hmm, read this earlier and was going to ask about frame stiffness. Cotic and Stanton have both settled on Alu rear ends for their steel FS bikes, as steel just doesn't let them do what they want it to do in the stays and linkages.
I wonder if the 14stone limit is more about acceptable ride/stiffness than out-and-out strength.
What does it say about the weight of the average MTBer?
Yes and have you seen the state of the average UK male. They are hardly a picture of someone who cycles/exercises are they.
Exactly.
max user weight kitted up of 90kgs!
Now that's a good move. Perhaps make a frame specifically for the larger gent as well.
Now a 130mm version does sound very promising, I'll be keeping an eye on that one.
Hardtail party chap mentioned steel bikes and construction for different sized riders, a lighter rider may not need the frame as heavy or as strong and vice versa too. Making a frame strong enough for the larger rider may make it feel too stiff for smaller sized frames.
And what about the taller men? One word that would describe me is very much not 'overweight' - I have a slight 'man over 40' belly but I'd be described as skinny by pretty much everyone and yet at 6ft 3in I'm 84kg with pretty much nothing on, so easily over 90kg with 2-3l of water, knee pads, helmet, and stuff for a full day ride.
If you're a 'proper' height male, forget this bike, then.
maybe they should rebrand as dwarf cycles - as if you want to ride his bikes with clothes on you'd need to be near/under the Uk average height of 5'9" to have peace of mind coverage with the warranty!
maybe they should rebrand as dwarf cycles
😀
At 5ft 8in, I resemble that comment.
Adrian is quite a small chap (and a quick rider) and is also about as much as a perfectionist as you can imagine. If he’s rating it to 90kg then that’ll mean it’ll be basically impossible to break way beyond the warranty period for riders below that size and doubtless will survive far better with bigger riders than most frames without weight limits.
However, he has limited production capacity so he can choose to restrict the warranty to lighter riders and not worry about losing sales.
The Cotic and Swarf chainstays are alloy for ease of manufacture - steel would be stiffer because steel is a lot stiffer than aluminium!
At 193cm and 88kg, I'm out. I'm not entirely sure what the attraction is, looks pretty simplistic. The BTR has at least twice the weld length and more tubing for only £450 more. The shock/pivot mounts look awful.
Swarf have made a 20 year old Turner 5-spot replica 😉
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The BTR has at least twice the weld length and more tubing for only £450 more
Are those the key metrics for frame pricing? Explains why Orange frames cost so much now - they have welds everywhere.
I don't want to slag BTR off, but they have quite an unique aesthetic which isn't for everyone - and (I always think) a surprisingly large amount of tubing.
I haven't the cash to even consider one of these but I am chuffed to discover I am 0.16kg below UK average weight. This is rather worrying for the rest of the population as I consider myself ( and BMI agrees) overweight.
I’m not entirely sure what the attraction is, looks pretty simplistic.
You’ve answered your own question there.
I now also feel like a lightweight compared to some of you biffers. Sorry! Tall men. 5ft 9” and 12 stone. Pity I’m piss poor and couldn’t afford one. Still, I can stare longingly.
Weight seems fine for a steel full sus. I’d take the weight penalty over some space aged looking carbon or alu frame.
Adrian is quite a small chap (and a quick rider) and is also about as much as a perfectionist as you can imagine.
What's he a perfectionist in? hiding the warranty weight limit clause on his website instead of making the riding weight limit clear on the product purchase page?
However, he has limited production capacity so he can choose to restrict the warranty to lighter riders and not worry about losing sales.
Bit of a blinkered view - some might argue he's covering up a design flaw discovered in extremes of testing by applying a relatively low weight limit 'get out' in the warranty details.
Are those the key metrics for frame pricing? Explains why Orange frames cost so much now – they have welds everywhere.
I don’t want to slag BTR off, but they have quite an unique aesthetic which isn’t for everyone – and (I always think) a surprisingly large amount of tubing.
If labour and materials aren't the key metrics for costing, I've no idea what is. Care to enlighten me? Doesn't look like they spent much time on design.
Doesn’t look like they spent much time on design.
Not to you perhaps.
the Dwarf Dated?
Bit of a blinkered view – some might argue he’s covering up a design flaw discovered in extremes of testing by applying a relatively low w
spot the over 90s
Not sure how happy a steel seatstay is going to be continually being flexed due to lack of Horstlink or seatstay pivot - even if it has a slight 'flattening' of the tube.
Doesn’t look like they spent much time on design.
this either means they haven't spent a lot of time on the design, or they have spent a lot of time on the design...
I'm assuming that as there is no rear triangle brace (like on a production privee, not sure how to describe it) then it is a flex stay single pivot, normally done in carbon and on shorter travel bikes. How is it going to hold up here?
EDIT - RNP beat me by 3 minutes
Fat people getting angry here 😀
Have a look on his blog. The man clearly knows what he’s doing and tests his frames a lot. Steel has natural flex and the frames are designed with this in mind. Adrian explains how it works.
“Not sure how happy a steel seatstay is going to be continually being flexed due to lack of Horstlink or seatstay pivot – even if it has a slight ‘flattening’ of the tube.”
We all know steel hates being flexed which is why it hasn’t been used for coil and leaf springs for over a century…
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chiefgrooveguru
Free Member“Not sure how happy a steel seatstay is going to be continually being flexed due to lack of Horstlink or seatstay pivot – even if it has a slight ‘flattening’ of the tube.”
We all know steel hates being flexed which is why it hasn’t been used for coil and leaf springs for over a century…
That's a poor example, we aren't comparing a big thick chunky coil or leaf spring (both of which commonly fail) to a thin walled bicycle tube in an application that for 99% of four or faux bar frames would have a pivot. I know Yeti did a pivot less aluminium link on the old 575 and there are have been a few carbon flex links like Cannondales Scalpel but a flexed steel tube makes my rough arse back of fag packet engineering spider sense tingle a little.
I've dug into Swarfs blog and read there's a 6mm deflection for the seatstay (3mm each way) but not sure if that's the same for the 155mm travel bike?
Also would the resistance of the seatstay to bending (due to lack of pivot) reduce small bump compliance?
The guy has an engineering background and the Contour has been around for a good few years now. Never read up on one failing. Why does your spider sense tingle for steel but not alu or carbon? I’d trust steel the most out of those three.
Never mind the blog, check his Instagram if you actually want more info. Or here's a better idea, if you want one but have concerns speak to him rather than slagging him off in a place he can't readily defend himself. Have a ****ing word with yourselves.
Pity he doesn’t have an account on here. I for one think he makes great bikes. Well tested, designed for our climate and simple in the best possible sense of the word. Much nicer than the identikit carbon bikes with more bearings than gears.
If you want to get an idea of what goes into Swarf bikes, read these two blog articles:
https://www.swarfcycles.co.uk/blog/swarf-full-suspension-a-brief-history-part-1
https://www.swarfcycles.co.uk/blog/swarf-full-suspension-a-brief-history-part-15633199
I’m not against the idea of a steel flex stay, just curious how it works.
Carbon flex stays on other bikes seem to have a more exaggerated oval/rectangle profile for more vertical compliance vs side to side movement.
An interesting added point alluded to above, flexing the stays takes energy, as opposed to a bearing design where the action of the suspension is nominally resistance free.
This non-adjustable spring is then going to need to be compensated for via the shock, but interested to see how.
Pity he doesn’t have an account on here.
Pretty sure he does.
