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[s]Mountain[/s] biking has become a bit of a fashion accessory.
Does it matter though, I think the whole world has woken up to cycling, that's great, in fact that's amazing.
Mountain Biking requires a significantly more complex set of skills to master than Skiing of Snowboarding
Yes, as an MTBer, Skier and Snowboarder at broadly similar standard (intermediate) I agree. For comparison:
Skiing: 15 days coaching, ~35 days riding before quitting to take up...
Snowboarding: 6 days coaching, ~60 days riding
Cycling: 3 days coaching (dad, cycling proficiency, forestfreeride), ~250 days riding
Im not middle aged as far as im aware, what im trying to say is surely some people dont need a skills course as much as some other people. ive not come accross much in the UK that i would think ide need a skills course to ride! What happened to your belief in natural ability.
i'm booked on a skills course, but only because mrsconsequence hasnt stopped raving about it since, its improved her riding and confidence massively.... i watched her do a small jump and get some air on sunday... i can't do that.... yet
Phil where/which course you on I found one site offering courses in swinley but they never appear to have any dates.
What happened to your belief in natural ability
I had zero abilities to begin with; all I can do I have learned.
The idea that some people have a "magical" natural ability, discourages everyone else from the commitment needed to improve; me included.
An inspiring quote from the great Reinhold Messner:
I am not a genius climber; I am not a high-altitude superman [doctors have proved it]. My success is down to my enthusiasm
lol..whatever next, skills courses for babies for walking tips, and they could do a pre walking, crawling skills course too!
"More fashion in MTB'ing than on the catwalk these days"
No more now than before - do you remember the londoners on Muddy Foxes back in the 80s?
Seeing more fashion in riding "these days" may say more about your perception of it all than the riding 'scene' itself. It always has had a fashion element - more in DH - DJ than anywhere else, look at all the Fort Bill groms with their Lacondeguy-alike caps and vests and jeans. It's a style. It's cool, BMX-like.
I don't see how a skills session for trail riding is fashionable tho. I don't see how trail riding or XC is cool / fashionable full stop, it's a tech-geek's or outdoor-types pass-time and i love it for that.
"skills courses for babies for walking tips, and they could do a pre walking, crawling skills course too!"
😀 Parents provide a lot of walking coaching to toddlers, don't they?
it's a good point, but we learn to do all these things ourselves don't we? you can encourage a baby to walk but ultimately it will do it itself. Do you think Danny MacAskill had a skills course on doing front flips? I think they are useful for some people and less useful for others..maybe ive stereotyped what i think is your average skills course attendee... fat, 5k bike, office job, unfit and sh1t on a bike..
maybe ive stereotyped what i think is your average skills course attendee
Yes, I think you'll find you have.
Are they being suggested anymore than "buy component X it will improve your riding" or "you need a *blank* it will solve your problem"??
Myself, my partner and her daughter have all been on courses at the Dales Bike Centre.
I've beeen riding for years, they were roadies and pretty new to it all.
I got my ingrained bad habits sorted out, they got a great core set of skills to practise.
We all gained a huge amount of confidence, met some decent people and had a great time.
Not cheap mind, but still good value, if that makes sense.
Do you think Danny MacAskill had a skills course on doing front flips? I think they are useful for some people and less useful for others
Do you think you'd know Danny MacAskill's name if he wasn't the pinnacle of what he does? 99% of bike riders could never do that. I've seen him race before - he was beaten by a few people who were better than him at racing. Some coaching would probably improve that.
Did you get taught to drive, or were you god's gift at that as well?
Who taught the teachers/coaches?
I've been riding bikes for years, and used to bmx a lot, and I still found a skills course very worthwhile. There's no point practicing and riding loads if what you're practicing is wrong.. I still feel like I have a few bad habits that I need to work on ironing out. And now when I fall I know why it happened which is nice rather than wondering what actually went wrong 🙂
beanieripper - at some point to prove you're not a troll you need to put your money where your mouth is... have you any footage of your awesomeness? Without it, you should just get back in your box.
xiphon - MemberYou won't get better, unless you ride with more 'experienced' riders.
Clearly not true.
beanieripper - Memberive not come accross much in the UK that i would think ide need a skills course to ride!
The coaching I've had hasn't made any difference to what I'll ride or not ride- it's just made a difference to how I ride it. I'm not a bad rider but I think just about everyone has their bad habits and gaps, for me coaching was (is) about taking off the rough edges.
And yeah, I think it was better value than bike parts. But it's all just part of the bigger picture.
[quote=don simon]Who taught the teachers/coaches?
Who says the teachers/coaches can't learn an equal amount (perhaps more) from their students?
If you're not a coach/teacher with industry qualifications, how do you measure your skill level against theirs?
What makes them a 'better' rider if you remove the teaching element?
( Not trollin'.... just askin' )
EDIT:
I don't want to get too entrenched in this, but a couple of factual points from real experience:
First, most people I coach are either outdoor types who want to have a go at mountain biking as well as the other sports they enjoy. Or people who have been riding for a while and want to improve. Sometimes because they can't figure out how some of their riding buddies are quicker, or just because they feel their skills are holding them back.
A fat IT professional on an expensive talent compensator is a rare beast, in my experience. Having said that, I bet that nearly no-one I have seen is on STW (which probably reflects mountain bikers as a whole).
Second, the coach needs to be good at coaching and riding. But not necessarily faster/"better" than the person they are coaching. I've ridden with XC racers who would certainly lap quicker than me, but have spots of poor technique that would make them even quicker if they could fix them. Does it matter that my aerobic speed is lower? No. I've also ridden with people who can do all sorts of clever tricks on a BMX and jump better than me, but they don't corner as well at XC riding as I do. That's the area they can be helped in. You quickly realise that comparing riders against each other doesn't make sense except in a very limited context e.g. a race or a particular feature
Coaching does frequently seem to be offered up as a solution on here. Doesn't mean that it's wrong.
Not so sure about skills courses, but apart from confidence boosting, what exactly do you learn ??? Aidan above says cornering, but thats body position, weighting etc. with practise that just comes ( doesn't it ? ) For a novice being shown the basics could help, but everyones a bit different, there's not one perfect style that makes everyone better. Look at the pro's hardly any ride exactly the same. At the end of the day your riding will be limeted to your physical abiliities, balance , coordination, strenght and stamina.
What goes on during a days training to improve those attributes ?? I could go on a 100 training courses on how to slam dunk a basketball, but I could never do it.
Practise will make you better, not so sure about the psycological placebo of a days skills course.
but the easiest way to improve your riding is surely just to ride more
only if you can video yourself whilst doing it, review the video while still out there, recognise the faults in your riding, be honest enough to admit to them, know how to correct them and advise yourself on applying them.
It's easier to just ride with a skills coach once in a while.
Without teaching you may just be reinforcing bad habits and positioning if you "just go out and ride"
taxi25 - MemberNot so sure about skills courses, but apart from confidence boosting, what exactly do you learn ??? Aidan above says cornering, but thats body position, weighting etc. with practise that just comes ( doesn't it ? )
No, not neccesarily... What happened with me was that with practice I got really good at cornering wrong. Practice sometimes just hones and cements the bad habits.
I could go on a 100 training courses on how to slam dunk a basketball, but I could never do it.
I really hope you are not claiming that as any form of logic to support your arguement. It isn't and it doesn't.
life is about choices. i could drive a car before i ws old enough (mis spent youth ) but needed instruction to do it correctly. its about how/why you learn and what aspirations you have.
i have bmx coaching 🙂
Perhaps skills courses can give you too much confidence in your ability, only to all end in tears soon after....
Any coaches interested in spending an afternoon up Gisburn/Lee Quarry, and being analysed where their technique might need working?
See it as a free gift from all those people who you've coached yourselves 🙂
if im up that way yea. if not come down to me 🙂
@Jedi - yup no probs. Sounds fun 🙂
Don't worry, I'm not thinking about changing careers into coaching... I like clicking buttons on those computery thingys too much.
sweet.
i have spent years trying to get better. thats why i get bmx coaching. i teach atkins mtb and he does the same for me at bmx. as he knows my learning style and vice versa.
i had coaching for triathlon etc...
I dont think skills courses are a bad thing and it is a matter of personal choice if you want to go on one or not.
It must be a nice way of making a living if you have the ability.
Personally i have improved no end by following the better riders in our club but my biggest improvement camefrom riding all winter in the mud and ice
This is the sort of thread that really depresses me
the whole tone is wrong. Fair enough you make think coaching is a silly idea, but so what. Its not like skills coaching is ruining your day out is it. Its not like skills coaching shuts your local trails or causes extra punctures
I will probably do a skills course at some point, I fit the box of a bit over weight and with a 5" bike for trails I can ride just as well on a 3" hard tail, so why not.
But when I was younger and thinner I use to climb. Ok I wasn't great but I was in the game and had mates who were good.Thats talking in code. I lead loads of E3s and a few E4s and even an E5 in North Wales in the 1990s. I had mates who were cruising E5 and E6. I did the odd route with some one who'd put up E7s. I did the whole university climbing club bit. I done loads of learning from my mates who were better than me
After all this is I went with a bunch of colleagues on an outdoor pursuits course with some colleagues. The instrutor realised I was a climber and spent the day teaching me stuff about rope work. I was just dump founded that there was so much I didn't know and didn't even realise I didn't know.
So I'm convinced that structured tuition has its place for almost everyone in outdoor pursuits.
I don't mind if you don't agree thats fine. Just don't start a thread whinging about it because its really pritty harmless isn't it?
I guess I may be about to become fashionable for the first time then because I'm booked on in august
Why?
Because I've been riding with lots of people better than me for last two years now, I've learned alot and improved but I sometimes feel it's a fluke, and I'm struggling to get rid of bad habits I know I have that just feel natural now I just need someone to inspire some confidence in me, and I think it's a small price to pay if it helps me enjoy my riding more, I don't want to go faster, higher or more gnarr, (that would be a nice side effect) I just want to have more fun doing what I like doing and I think a skills course will help with my mental state right now
If you're happy not riding as well as you can I wouldn't worry about it.
If you'd like to ride well, smoothly, confidently, do things that scare you, fall off less then they seem like a great idea to me.
Why are they popular now? I don't think it's fashion tbh. I think the bike skills profession has worked out how to teach people the various techniques and also lots of us have bought fs and realised it doesn't make us better riders and maybe it would be worth learning how to ride it so the £2k+ we've spent doesn't seem like a waste.
I've done a few days training with Cycleactive and it changed my riding beyond expectation. I can do stuff I've not been able to do for 20+ years e.g. drops, bunnyhops on flats. I love the sense of achievement that comes from that. I also fall off less which after 2 broken shoulders a few years ago means there's no debate of the worth of a bit of training...
If you'd like to ride well, smoothly, confidently, do things that scare you, fall off less then they seem like a great idea to me.
Can you not do these without going on a course? 😕
I think the golfing analogy is flawed because it comes to the wrong conclusion. In comparison to our European and US cousins, Brits in general have very low appetites for coaching and training. Yes, people have lessons to start with and then seem happy to settle into mediocrity. When this fails they think that more expensive kit is the solution - this is the correct analogy with golf not the idea that people use pros for lessons a lot. They don't. Ditto cycling, tennis, skiing etc. Lots of kit but flawed basic techniques limit potential.
Its seems a cultural thing because the French love their courses and spend far more time on learning technique (et la philosophie du spprt!) than kit. But ski resorts are full of well meaning brits pottering down red runs and then stumbling down blacks and off piste with their self taught technique. For all the improvements in golf equipment the average handicap has got worse not better, ditto tennis.
So I cant see what is wrong with learning the correct technique for mtb - why waste 000s of £s on a fancy bike if you cant use it properly. Save the money on the bike and spend it on learning the correct technique, surely?
beanieripper - Member
best bet for people needing a skills course is a hardtail, or a bmx..
This does raise an interesting point, and certainly seems to have ruffled a few feathers 🙂
All the young lads down at my local skate / bmx park spend every free minute they have hanging out down there. Being youthful types with few responsibilities, they seem to have an awful lot of free time. They are constantly learning new tricks off each other, and there are several loose 'groupings' of riders - each group brings fresh perspectives and new ideas.
So they spend [i]a lot[/i]of time either riding, or watching others riding. They could be said to be quite commited. They ride with loads of different folk. Us weekend warriors perhaps don't have the same amount of free time to do that - a skills course is just an intensive short cut to acheiving the same end. I'd do one if I could make the time / money....
Can you not do these without going on a course?
I couldn't, and don't mind admitting it, so I went on a course or two, now i'm a much better rider which means the enjoyment factor of riding has increased which means i ride more which has meant the improvement is ongoing 🙂
I maybe somewhat biased. However, I cannot see how coaching cannot help those who wish to improve. There are just far too many people, who have only ever had a positive experience from quality coaching.
Mountain bike skills coaching, skiing, etc.etc. Dont think I have heard of anyone saying it was not worthwhile.
Obviously, its very important that the coach is capable of coaching the techniques /skills to meet your specific needs, and delivers the session so that you both understand / absorb the requirements. This will then improve your techniques, skills and confidence.
ampthill - MemberThis is the sort of thread that really depresses me. the whole tone is wrong.
I don't mind if you don't agree thats fine. Just don't start a thread whinging about it because its really pritty harmless isn't it?
Who's winging? I was asking a question about something I'd observed a lot recently and I was wondering if it's become a cool (for want of a better word) thing to do.
As for telling me what to start threads about...look around you and jog on. Nobody asked you to read it.
nick3216but the easiest way to improve your riding is surely just to ride more
only if you can video yourself whilst doing it, review the video while still out there, recognise the faults in your riding, be honest enough to admit to them, know how to correct them and advise yourself on applying them.
It's easier to just ride with a skills coach once in a while.
Well yes, if I had a complete inability to imagine or analyse anything without a camera crew and video playback it would surely be easier to go on a training course.
Maybe I'm some sort of freak but I do think I have an ability to figure some things out without video playback, nor do have a problem admiting my own failings to myself. Some things are actually possible to decipher and remedy without professional help you know.
I'm pretty sure I'm not unique in possessing these gifts either but life must be pretty hard without them.
This does raise an interesting point, and certainly seems to have ruffled a few feathersAll the young lads down at my local skate / bmx park spend every free minute they have hanging out down there. Being youthful types with few responsibilities, they seem to have an awful lot of free time. They are constantly learning new tricks off each other, and there are several loose 'groupings' of riders - each group brings fresh perspectives and new ideas.
I spent a good part of last summer down the park with my lad.
I learned loads of stuff by riding with the kids, practice with the right people and you can better yourself if you have the mind for it.
Having said that pay the people who can if you're time limited or have a mental ting going on. The kids have no fear, which may hurt you.
I want to know what these 'bad habits' are that people keep going on about. I've yet to see someone doing skag on the trails. Or is it the crafty cig you have half way round? Or the pint afterwards?
Shalarim
Leon is currently relocating his skills courses from Swinley to the Surrey Hills. His website - http://www.mountainbikeskillscourses.co.uk/locationf.asp
is currently being updated to include new location and dates.
If you would like to book a course in the Surrey Hills, just contact the office and I am sure he will organise a course on a date to suit your requirements. If you require Individual Tuition, he can also provide this for £158.
This thread is getting tiresome.
Why don't all the naysayers post up some video of them riding and then we can see how flawless their technique is, or not.
I need psychological work on consistency. I have the skills but every so often I just lose it.
Its called stress from work effecting my riding.
Not really much you can do about that except have some sports(?) psychology etc?
Have you ever gotten to something and thought 'I can't do this' (yet in the past you've done sections far more technical etc?). Then later on you'll easy ride it but flip over and not ride the other stuff.
Thats what I'm talking about. Consistency. How do you deal with work stress effecting you on the bike? How do you lock out/relax and chill for riding? (Which is the whole point of riding IMO for me).
I've never been able to jump etc- its not really for me/not of interest. I've no interest in becoming a technically advanced rider or super-fast down a section. Just smooth, flowing and relaxed.
Again stress.
Bollocks to technique, just have some fun.