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I’m just stating facts because I’m bored of prejudiced opinions.
It does become very wearing. Every time someone finds out you have an ebike, they need a full explanation.
In the interest of "science" I selflessly just went out on my analogue bike, a yt capra, and did one of my regular loops.
I haven't ridden my analogue bike since February, and have been exclusively riding my ebike since then, and I haven't been doing any other exercise.
There's a longish tarmac climb at the start of the loop. The last time I did that climb on the capra in Feb it took 15 mins 6 seconds. Tonight it took 14 min 56 seconds.
So I have got fitter with an ebike!
Science bitches.
Other observations :-
- blimey the analogue bike can change direction quickly
- those climbs are tedious
- I prefer 27. 5 inch wheels
- sram axs gears are awesome
That’s just your observer bias.
That maybe works both ways.
It does become very wearing. Every time someone finds out you have an ebike, they need a full explanation.
While I agree with this it only seems to happen on here.
People like aidy seem a bit more reluctant to state their tongue in cheek opinions face to face.
I wander why...
Personally I speak to folks on here the same way I do while stood in front of them.
Back out on the trails i've had no face to face abuse while on my eeb.
Seems a bit daft doesn't it.
I could be riding one bike and I'm an over dressed muppet that has no place on the trail then the next day I'm on a neeb in the same clothes and it's perfectly legit on here.
While actually riding it's all how's it going pal and great here isn't it.
maybe it's folks that only ride in shit locations that have to prove how their tribe is better than what they view as another tribe.
Just all a bit odd to me.
People like aidy seem a bit more reluctant to state their tongue in cheek opinions face to face.
I'm quite happy to say anything I type online directly to people's faces. Thanks all the same.
You wonder why I find this aggressive - singling people out and casting aspersions on them.
I bet when it comes down to it your quite as a mouse...
Are you really telling me you've told people on eebs that
because they don’t get enough of a workout on a bike, they need to blow off steam some other way?
You wonder why I find this aggressive – singling people out and casting aspersions on them.
Oh poor you the victim.
Try not casting aspersions in the first place if you don't want to be picked up on them.
Think I'll leave you to it . I'd rather think about the next few days riding and which trail to ride than all this negative shite.
What a bully you are.
What a bully you are.
Oh for god sake.
While I agree with this it only seems to happen on here.
Na, roadies really just can't get it at all, it totally pickles their shammies.
What a bully you are.
Yep full on took your dinner money off you and everything.
Go and tell your mom or something. 😂
I haven't lost fitness since getting my ebike. I only ride an ebike and mainly just ride in turbo but whereas I used to just ride up a fire road on an mtb, I now take the rooty, rocky singletrack on my emtb. There are quite big climbs where I live though. 1000m (height) climbing on a fireroad on an mtb is plodding dullness....a 1000m of hard rock steps and steep rooty climbs to navigate is a hard full body workout!
I do sometimes cruise up the fireroad on the emtb though and may even chat to friends with an extra layer on (if I'm on a social ride) as I ride past a non ebiker (though not often, as there are very few of those left round here) thinking 'glad I'm not on one of those'.
Other times I'll be sprinting up the fireroad as I have limited time, or there's no alternative singletrack, or I just want to get done with the fireroad as quickly as possible, or cause I just like sprinting.
The best thing about the emtb (if you are not riding with non ebikers) is the flexibility that you have to be able to do the kind of ride you want to do.
People buy eBikes because they want to make the riding easier, that is the primary reason for an eBike for someone that already rides a bike and has a decent level of fitness.
Yes they can go further in the same time (easier), yes they can use less energy on the climbs (easier), yes they can also put in the same effort (equal)
They don't buy an eBike because it will be harder work and make them fitter and for some the balance of easier with equal is going to be on the side of easier and they may become less fit.
I don't care what anyone else does, what sort of bike they ride and if they get more or less fit, people just need to look at the question objectively.
People buy eBikes because they want to make riding
easiermore fun
Absolutely this^^^.
I can ride up hills... I just don't find them fun.... in fact I hate them.
Will be buying an ebike next year to max the enjoyment of rides.
I'm actually looking to buy an ebike to increase my fitness, not "pedal" fitness but the type of fitness that'll let me get in more laps and longer tracks on an uplift day before blowing. Also to maintain the kind of strength that's useful on a pump track or at the dirt jumps, am I doing it wrong?
Let's flip around the prejudice that ebiking requires no fitness, I see plenty of "fit" riders on a pedal bike, but can't keep their arse off the saddle for more than 10s without their legs buckling under their own weight, are they really "fit"? Also get one of those pedal fit people on a pump track, probably ruined in a couple of laps.
So what's my point? Maybe metrics for fitness include more than what you can churn out twiddling the pedals. Prejudice against ebiking not requiring fitness doesn't make sense.
Though I can't disagree you can be lazy on a ebike, but the same person would likely be lazy on a normal bike, just people isn't it, not the equipment.
Again this is where this thread is so irritating:
“People buy eBikes because they want to make the riding easier, that is the primary reason for an eBike for someone that already rides a bike and has a decent level of fitness.”
I don’t know anyone who’s a keen MTBer without a health problem who’s bought an ebike to make it easier. We’ve all done it to get more riding into less time, be it lapping somewhere there’s usually a push-up, extending a commute via some trails, etc. My cardio fitness is as good as when I bought the Levo three years ago and my strength is greater.
Repeating your opinion doesn’t make it correct. I’d love to know what data you base this opinion on as you’ve frequently stated that you avoid riding with anyone and you live in the New Forest. Where exactly are all these keen MTBers you know that have bought ebikes to make it easier?
I ride with people on ebike and their reasons are vey different .
Some of them have no time to train , back from injury , some of them dont enjoy going up .
In my view , access and damage to trails are going to be issues in the future with ebikes .
I don’t know anyone who’s a keen MTBer without a health problem who’s bought an ebike to make it easier. We’ve all done it to get more riding into less time, be it lapping somewhere there’s usually a push-up, extending a commute via some trails, etc.
You can ride more in less time BECAUSE it is easier
You can ride more uphills BECAUSE it is easier
You can extend a commute BECAUSE it is easier
An eBike is easier to ride at the same speed as a pedal bike, fact (you have 250W).
What you do with that, take it easy up hills, ride further and faster etc,. is up to you and I couldn't care less about whether you are more or less fit because of it.
Try and not be so touchy about it, I am not saying anything personal about anyone and how they ride.
In my view , access and damage to trails are going to be issues in the future with ebikes .
Keen to know your thoughts about damage.
I don’t know anyone who’s a keen MTBer without a health problem who’s bought an ebike to make it easier.
Last time I was at Glentress I was nattering to a guy on his (new to him) pretty tricked out SC Heckler, he caught me up and we chatted on the last bit of the first climb just before you get to the the Eagle? Buzzard? Nest CP (or whatever it's called) He bought one 'cause he hates climbing, and the e-bike made that easy, and that's cool, it's not a character flaw or wrong or lame, or bad...It's irrelevant to everyone else.
You can't know why everyone has bought the bike they have. There's only one metric that counts. Are you having fun? and that's pretty much the start middle and finish of the conversation.
“You can ride more in less time BECAUSE it is easier
You can ride more uphills BECAUSE it is easier
You can extend a commute BECAUSE it is easier”
Again, you are missing the point or don’t appear to understand what the word “easier” means. If you are putting in equal effort it is no easier.
I’m not being touchy, I’m being precise because I’m tired of ill-informed, ill-considered opinions based on incorrect facts and anecdotal evidence.
Someone else said something equally clueless earlier about using electric assistance in the gym and I responded with a reference to equipped powerlifting - this variant of the sport uses bench shirts and squat suits to hugely increase the weight you can lift by using the elasticity of the gear to support the load like a spring. It makes it much easier to lift the same weight - so people lift more weight, so it isn’t any easier.
Those of us who choose to do sports often do them because one of the aspects we enjoy is the physical challenge of them. That doesn’t necessarily change if you happen to buy a eMTB, just as it didn’t have to change if you bought a bike with suspension or more gears.
The last group ride I did, I had the power off for 99% of the ride. I turned it on for one steep climb, max assistance, and then pedalled like a lunatic trying to win an XC race for the sheer amusement of going up a rough climb that fast. By the top my heart rate was as high as it can go and I had that delightful feeling of being on the verge of throwing up, like when I used to race cross-country in the school running team. So the one time on that group ride I used the power I pushed myself far harder than when I had the power off.
On the way to that group ride I was running late so was pedalling as hard as I could for a longer period, again with max assistance, but pushing myself harder than I did unpowered with the group. On the way home I turned the power right up and let the bike do more of the work because I was tired after the ride but I was still pedalling as hard as when I ride home on my normal bike, I just got home faster.
It is all about your individual choices as a human. If you like working hard in your sport or pastime of choice, then changing the equipment won’t change that.
I’m not being touchy, I’m being precise because I’m tired of ill-informed, ill-considered opinions based on incorrect facts and anecdotal evidence.
He says, before embarking on a lengthy anecdote about his personal experience. People are entitled to have opinions even if they're different from yours. For example, my opinion, as I mentioned earlier in the thread and based on personal experience is that it's quite difficult and awkward to lift a 50lb plus emtb over a stile. Your opinion, I think, was that it's no more difficult than lifting an unloaded barbell or a six-year-old child over a stile and therefore quite easy. I disagree with you, but clearly you're stronger than me and have a different experience. Neither of these opinions is a 'fact', they are just personal experience and as valid as each other.
My take would be that my experience is possibly more typical than yours, which is why I see very few ebikes riding footpaths round here- that's anecdotal, but I've not seen any studies on the numbers of ebikes on footpaths - but equally I get that you're probably stronger and fitter than me and for you lifting emtbs over stiles isn't an issue. Where we differ is that you seem exasperated that anyone has an opinion that's not the same as yours. Could we all not just agree that opinions are often shades of grey and rarely exclusively correct because hey, the world is nuanced and we are not always right.
You should give MX a go. How hard can it be, you don’t even have to pedal.
Or trials. Very low distance, very low average speed. Still a bike.
There’s only one metric that counts. Are you having fun?
Disagree, difficult things aren't always fun.
The best thing about the emtb (if you are not riding with non ebikers) is the flexibility that you have to be able to do the kind of ride you want to do.
Eh. This is pure genius. I have a bike and already have the flexibility to do the kind if ride I want to do. I set off pedalling, go where I want, and end the ride approximately when I want to. I can't see how having an eeb is going to improve that. In fact I'm pretty sure it'll have the opposite effect.
Eh. This is pure genius. I have a bike and already have the flexibility to do the kind if ride I want to do. I set off pedalling, go where I want, and end the ride approximately when I want to. I can’t see how having an eeb is going to improve that. In fact I’m pretty sure it’ll have the opposite effect.
As ever, there's different ways of looking at it. My first eeb ride was riding the rhinns of Kells, straight up coran of portmark from Carsphairn. No one on here is climbing that on a push bike.
I love the exploring on mine, going places I wouldn't ordinarily have gone.
The only limitations are hike a bike carries (**** that) and big huge days, in which case I'll take the Bronson.
“Where we differ is that you seem exasperated that anyone has an opinion that’s not the same as yours.”
My opinion, as I’ve repeatedly stated, is that it comes down to the individual, which is why I’ve provided my own experiences as an example of one individual who’s been riding an eMTB a lot for a few years. The opinions that I keep disagreeing with are the ones making sweeping generalisations which I know are inaccurate based on actual experience.
“I have a bike and already have the flexibility to do the kind if ride I want to do. I set off pedalling, go where I want, and end the ride approximately when I want to.”
How nice for you. I have three small children, so my biking flexibility is more limited because I don’t get many hours in the year to dedicate to myself. The eMTB helps because it saves time.
The opinions that I keep disagreeing with are the ones making sweeping generalisations which I know are inaccurate based on actual experience.
The point I was making is that your 'actual experience' and mine can be different, neither are absolutely correct and both can have validity. I have difficulty lifting a 50lb ebike over stiles and suspect quite a few other people would too. You have no difficulty and therefore think I am making a 'sweeping generalisation' apparently.
My lived experience is different from yours, but just as valid, but you seem to be exasperated that someone else has a different opinion 'based on [their own] actual experience'. If you're ever in the Peak District, drop me a line and I'll take you riding footpath tech and you can show me your technique, which would be potentially really helpful.
The eMTB helps because it saves time.
Which is because it makes things easier! You can go faster/further in the same time using the same effort as you would on a non ebike so it is making going faster/further easier.
If you wanted to go further or faster on your non ebike you would have to put more effort into it, with an eBike you can put the same effort in (or even less effort and still go faster/further)
you’re ever in the Peak District, drop me a line and I’ll take you riding footpath tech
Can you show me some footpath tech in the Peak please. After loads of fantastic rides in the Lakes I'm desperate to find some good tricky stuff nearer to home.
I'm going to do something radical here and reply to the original Q about “half fat” eMtbs.
I have a Levo SL along with my other bikes. I dont have a full fat ebike so wont offer an opinion on those.
The SL is designed for folk that are fit (ish). It's not a 'TURBO all day bike'. You gotta put the effort in.
I find it helps with my fitness for these reasons:
- it's got a 'heart rate mode'. When set: it is not an ebike. It's a heavy pedal bike. Until you hit the target rate you set in the app it doesnt help at all. If you go over the target: it kicks in.
- it's got a built in power meter. Not for the ebike part: but for your input. Pair it to your garmin: set yourself a target watts, and off you go.
- its got a limited range (deliberatly). You gotta put the effort in.
What's not so good - and this relates to some comments above about bonking: when the battery drops to a certain point (maybe 20%) the assistance drops off significantly. Keep riding and at 10%: you get barely any assistance. The first time it happens- it seems weird but just be aware.
When I swap back to my manual bikes: they seem lighter but sluggish initially but 30 mins in and I'm still smiling.
If you buy an ebike and ride as slow as a normal bike you won’t get much of a workout, you should give it 100% same as on a normal bike and the reward is more speed.
As for the half fat ebikes I had an ezesty and tbh don’t see the point compared to my bosch powered one. Either have a full fat ebike or a normal bike. On my local red route which has nothing hard on a normal bike I’m 48 minutes, half fat ebike 44 minutes and full fat ebike 34 minutes, giving 100% on each. My normal bike time is on a par with friends who only ride normal bikes very regularly, I mention this as I only started back on mtb 3 years ago and all my fitness has been built up on an ebike including a chunk of weight loss 👍
Good stuff couchy 👌🏻
The best thing about the emtb (if you are not riding with non ebikers) is the flexibility that you have to be able to do the kind of ride you want to do.
Eh. This is pure genius. I have a bike and already have the flexibility to do the kind if ride I want to do. I set off pedalling, go where I want, and end the ride approximately when I want to. I can’t see how having an eeb is going to improve that. In fact I’m pretty sure it’ll have the opposite effect.
Yes, of course you have flexibility of where to ride and how long you ride for with an mtb, but the terrain often dictates how far you are able to go and the speed that you are able to go at. With an emtb, you have extra options that are opened up as you can go further/faster/steeper and you have terrain accessible that is not achievable without a motor (either due to time constraints or due to the technicality/steepness of terrain) and as well as that, you have a greater choice of speed and effort levels.
With an emtb, you have extra options that are opened up as you can go further/.
Not unless you stache extra battery[ies?] at key points on your ride. And if you do this then you no longer have the flexibility that you were lauding; you need to go where the battery stache is.
You can carry extra battery(s) if you can afford one / them. A spare battery for the 2017 Levo currently taking up half our front room, retails for a cool £730 though, so it's an additional investment for sure. Or use a range extender. Mostly you have to just go easy on assistance if you're planning a longer outing. But yes, there is a thing known as 'range anxiety' where you worry whether your battery will last long enough. Obviously multiday outings are going to require some sort of recharging plan too, so probably not ideal for multi-day semi-wilderness, unsupported bikepacking.
Probably not an issue for most STW ebikers as they're super fit 😉 <---- wink denoting this is a joke before the ebike possee gets on its power-assisted lynch bikes.
The other thing, which I don't think has been mentioned, is that if you do go out for a 'blast', to me it feels a bit like riding everything in fast forward, which is a bit weird and not very 'zen'. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, it's just different.
The other thing, which I don’t think has been mentioned, is that if you do go out for a ‘blast’, to me it feels a bit like riding everything in fast forward, which is a bit weird and not very ‘zen’. I’m not saying that’s a bad thing, it’s just different
100% that for me. It changes the dynamics and mentality of riding from relaxing and enjoying the tranquility of being out, into a flat out motor fest of speed. It's not why I ride bikes to do that.
Hence why I last rode the ebike 6 months ago and have only ridden it 3 times ever.
If you buy an ebike and ride as slow as a normal bike you won’t get much of a workout
Sorry but is that all it is to you 😕 and if that is the case why then are you on a mtb in the first place and not a road bike as part of a club, putting in times and max output every ride 😕
And given that most offroad cycling is about the downward slope, not the annoying, soul destroying, energy sapping uphill bit, it would appear that having and using an Emtb for offroad is the epitome of mtb'ing, its just taken a while to get here.
Something pretty much never heard on any mtb forum - 'Yeah, went out the other day and really had a blast on those uphill sections. What a shame there were too many downward slopes that totally ruined it for me'
If the uphill sections were what it was all about, what the fk would you need a suss bike for 😕
And given that most offroad cycling is about the downward slope, not the annoying, soul destroying, energy sapping uphill bit, it would appear that having and using an Emtb for offroad is the epitome of mtb’ing, its just taken a while to get here.
So how has the ebike been for your fitness?
So how has the ebike been for your fitness?
Again you're falling into the trap that cycling for any individual is about fitness, not riding for enjoyment or as a cheaper form of getting about.
Maybe put these misconceptions away 😉
Again you’re falling into the trap that cycling for any individual is about fitness, not riding for enjoyment or as a cheaper form of getting about.
No, I was just curious given that this thread is about whether your fitness has got worse since buying a mountain bike. I didn't fall into any traps at all, I just asked the question, all the other stuff is assumptions you've made.
Of course it could be that riding bikes - any bikes - can be about riding for enjoyment and getting fit in the process and be a cheaper way of getting about, but that's really neither here nor there. I was genuinely just curious in the spirit of the original question.
Something pretty much never heard on any mtb forum – ‘Yeah, went out the other day and really had a blast on those uphill sections. What a shame there were too many downward slopes that totally ruined it for me’
If the uphill sections were what it was all about, what the fk would you need a suss bike for
Pure nonsense. Proof this is nonsense can be found with a quick analysis of youtube video searches:
total views for top 10 results for "climb mtb" 2.1 million
total views for top 10 results for "descend mtb" 3.1 million.
Maybe put those misconceptions away 😉
No, I was just curious given that this thread is about whether your fitness has got worse since buying a mountain bike. I didn’t fall into any traps at all, I just asked the question, all the other stuff is assumptions you’ve made.
Perhaps the only assumption that has been made is the basis of the thread itself, in that cycling is purely about fitness.
I just asked the question
Oh is that what it was ? 😕
Maybe put those misconceptions away 😉
Hmmmm
Sorry, vids about climbing are vids about technique, not the enjoyment of it. It is a means to an end.
I think you've misconstrued the point of those results 😉
Proper low-grade trolling. I preferred the one where you asked about lightening your ebike.
I love a blast on mine! Couple of hours of absolutely hammering the local built trails, top to bottom and repeat.
Took the Bronson out yesterday for the first time since I got the eeb, christ it's like chucking a kids bike about! Brilliant.
Proper low-grade trolling.
Which is exactly what you were doing with that question buddy.
Which is exactly what you were doing with that question buddy.
Well, it genuinely wasn't meant that way, but you seem to have embroidered it with all sorts of stuff that's purely designed to get a rise out of folk. Either that or really believe it? I'll leave you to it, petal. Have fun.