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“ Nope, that’s why they got eBikes 🙂”
Well there you go then!
This is a useful article to consider:
I believe my Levo is about 7kg heavier than my Spitfire was. The pedalling efficiency is similar but the bigger wheels roll easier. According to that article. I’m about 80kg so we’re looking at about 7% more system weight. A typical night ride here is about 2000’ of climbing over 16 miles, so 600m over 20k. If assume the climbing and descending distances are equal then the average gradient is 600m in 10,000m which is 6%. So we can estimate that the Levo without motor power need 3-4% more human power to do the same ride at the same speed.
Or if you can’t put out that extra ~4% power, the group will have to wait for you for 24 seconds at the top of a 10 minute climb. Is that an usually long wait for a group to regroup?
I’ve noticed the eBikers I see around here is that the majority are wearing far more clothing than normal bikers, assumption is that they’re not putting in as much effort, and certainly not sweating it out.
Every ebike rider I've ever seen has been coasting up hills.
Every ebike rider I’ve ever seen has been coasting up hills
Same goes for me although I don't see that many and I am clearly not seeing the ones that put the same effort in as I do as they pass me at 15.5mph up hill.
coasting up hills
Where do I get one of these bikes that coasts uphill?
I have to pedal mine.
On the clothing front all MTBers must be unfit fat ****ers as they wear more than fell runners.
As for roadys they must be proper unfit with the amount of clothing I see them wearing round here. 😉
Tried an ebike and it will be in my future as a car hater.
For me it us like the geared vs SS debate. After a while of riding my rigid geared MTB I get on the SS and the first ride or two feels brutal.
Ss all the way for me and an ebike (probably an e cargobike) is going to be there in parallel.
I haven't bought an ebikie but my fitness is getting worse. saved £5k there, who's laughing now?
i only kept mine for around 4 months and i was also riding my other bikes so it didnt make much difference.
my mrs has been riding hers exclusively for a couple of years, she keeps her regular bike as a spare but just doesnt want to ride it because its much harder, she will openly say she has lost strength and fitness since riding the eeb. having said that her bike skills have improved lots as she is able to ride more.
if an eeb is going to be an only bike then yes its easier and you will likely lose fitness. i know people say you can put in as much effort etc but once you hit the speed limiter it simply isnt worth it as you are just pedalling a heavy bike for little reward, and im yet to see an ebiker properly blowing hard on any trail.
in the short time i had my eeb it definitely ticked the fun box, but for anyone serious about fitness and training look elsewhere.
Seeing as this thread is starting to go sour.... have we discussed ebikers wearing full face helmets on trails yet.... 😀
I'd tend to agree with that sailor74.. Definitely need to do other stuff, but even running, I still need to do strength work to keep my knees in good order.
My Rail is flipping massive, way longer than the Bronson, which isn't exactly short, it takes quite a bit of muscling round switchbacks, particularly uphill, you really need to be over the front end all the time, and moving around constantly.
i'm not averse to teh odd uphill tech trail in boost, cos it is fun on the right trail (not a fire road) but then you pay the price in range. I'd rather lap more than go uphill a tiny bit faster. Lets be honest - even trail mode uphill is taking the piss really. I ride purely for fun although it is pretty much my only exercise (other than digging trails).
and yes you do coast up a hill on an ebike - thats the flipping great bit. it means you can do more laps quicker before your arms fall off (on the eeb) or you cant pedal any more (on a normal bike).
I can easily do 10/12 laps of the local top to bottom in an hour. on a normal bike its a 10 minute climb and after 3 you are probably pushing on teh steep bit (unless you are fit) so maybe 15-20 mins up. I just get significantly more fun on the eeb for the time available. especially as the up is fun too if you pick the right routes.
Agree if I'm trying to stay out for a while re range, but if I have an hour, it's getting turbo'd! 🙃
and yes you do coast up a hill on an ebike
No I still have to pedal mine.
Turbo on mine is reserved for the end of the ride if there's still some battery left.
A three up race up the Inners pushup track to the top was the last time.
Those corners are pretty tight at that speed. 😊
My mate with a full fat says that his heart rate is a lot lower, but he now rides his bike a lot more than he did, so surely a win. He does moan up every hill on his normal bike though!
And another mate, who was always amazing on a bike, had stopped riding due to a big belly and lack of fitness/time, now rides his full fat regularly. Its great to see him back out doing what he does best.
So I presume they aren't working as hard because they haven't lost loads of weight but goddamn its great to have them back out on the trails!
If its just the two of us I take a dog lead and catch a tow up the hills 🙂
This is an interesting subject! I have a Levo SL and since I started riding it I have lost that 'I have to ride tonight or I'll lose fitness so wont enjoy riding as much next time' attitude. Basically, I've lost the anxiety I used to have about losing fitness as I know I dont actually need to be as fit as I used to think I did to enjoy riding my bike.
Make no mistake though, you can still retain fitness if you ride Ebikes, maybe not as much as with regular bikes but you can still work hard if you want to, you just go faster.
The whole argument is just silly. If your concerned with maximum fitness you wouldn't use a motor would you? I'm just off to the e gym where I'll do some motor assisted bench press at 200kg. I normally press 4-6 sets of 10 at 80kg but I press more at the e gym so must be fitter...
“ The whole argument is just silly. If your concerned with maximum fitness you wouldn’t use a motor would you? I’m just off to the e gym where I’ll do some motor assisted bench press at 200kg. I normally press 4-6 sets of 10 at 80kg but I press more at the e gym so must be fitter…”
I have no words for how clueless this response is. What a bizarre comparison! I highly recommend you don’t look into equipped powerlifting - or indeed, any forms of motorsport…
or indeed, any forms of motorsport…
I'm pretty sure people don't drive around a track as a workout.
Chief, I'm sure you don't have words. Don't worry it's ok.
Not sure many people work out how to or need to achieve "maximum fitness" other than top level athletes.
I just ride my bike and like to feel that I have at least maintained a level of fitness by doing so (sustained increased heart rate, muscle use etc,.) but I am not really trying to get fitter and if I was I would have a program to do so rather than just ride for fun with fitness as a nice byproduct.
The question in this thread is whether I would maintain fitness or would it drop if I was given an easier option of say having motor assistance up hill.
I've got a lot fitter with my ebike (the non-broken one ;)). I can pedal harder up hills (previously had to slowly spin up hills in granny because of my knees), explore more and ride longer distances (previously couldn't because of risking knackering my knees on too many hills), and ride far more frequently (previously a ride would take my knees days or even over a week to reduce swelling).
Heart rate is only slightly higher on the ebike, but I can ride a lot more.
The whole argument is just silly. If your concerned with maximum fitness you wouldn’t use a motor would you? I’m just off to the e gym where I’ll do some motor assisted bench press at 200kg. I normally press 4-6 sets of 10 at 80kg but I press more at the e gym so must be fitter…
My bike is for fun, as is my hillwalking and to an extent, hill running. Road running and kettlebells etc are for my fitness. If all you do is bike, and you only do it for fitness, then it's possibly not for you.
I’m pretty sure people don’t drive around a track as a workout.
You should give MX a go. How hard can it be, you don't even have to pedal.
The question in this thread is whether I would maintain fitness or would it drop if I was given an easier option of say having motor assistance up hill.
If you only did the same number of rides for the same distance at the same speed yes you would probably lose fitness.
However everyone I know with an eeb uses it to do extra rides or self assist uplift instead of sitting in a van.
This can lead to gaining fitness.
Not that I'm personally bothered about how fit I am as long as I can ride 3 or 4 times a week.
We could all just accept that there are a number of different answers to the OPs question based on a fair few variables......fitness start point, length of ride, use of motor etc etc......
It could make you less fit.
It could make you fitter.
It could just vary your type of fitness from anaerobic to more aerobic etc....
🙂
You should give MX a go. How hard can it be, you don’t even have to pedal.
I really don't understand why people are so aggressive about this.
Noone's debating the difficulty of motorsports, or suggesting that fitness isn't required. People just aren't driving a car around a track as their daily exercise, though.
I really don’t understand why people are so aggressive about this.
There's way more from the non eebers on here, I can assure you! 😄
My casual observation would be that I see far more e-bikers wearing full trousers/jacket combo suggesting they aren't getting too hot on their ride, I've also never heard an e-biker properly blowing up a climb.
I think most people use an e-bike to make their life easier rather than go further for the same effort as a standard bike.
People just aren’t driving a car around a track as their daily exercise, though.
But some MTBers are riding MX for fitness.
Also aggressive? Really.
Just showing how any bike can give a workout without slogging up some dull fireroad for hours on end.
I’ve definitely lost a bit of fitness since getting my e-mtb two years ago, but it was on the decline anyway due to health/medication issues, and may well have happened anyway due to increased family commitments. I’m not sure I’ve lost much endurance/mid-zone fitness as I ride in eco mode 90% of the time, but I’ve no doubt I’m in the anaerobic zone less on the e-mtb so that has decreased. So overall, yes my fitness level has declined (although the 4/5 months of riding my winter hardtail evens that out again each year).
What I can also say though, is that in the limited riding time I do now get is more fun than in would be on a normal MTB (mainly by allowing more adventure in what would otherwise be quite short rides). E-mtb is different but not necessarily better. After 30yrs+ riding, I’ll definitely continue to ride both and mix it up, although at the moment the e-mtb fits in with my other commitments better so gets pulled out of the shed much much more often. The only time of year the e-mtb gets used sparingly is the next 4-5 months (as has always been the case for me when I switch to a winter hardtail).
Basically, having the choice is the best of both worlds.
But some MTBers are riding MX for fitness.
So not driving a car as he says
So, have we yet established that it takes zero fitness to ride a MTB at an uplift venue? I think that’s what everyone who hates ebikes is trying to say?
If you’re not pedalling uphill (although we’ve also established that ebikes don’t move uphill without pedalling, that the assistance is variable and that you can turn the power off so they’re harder to pedal uphill than a normal bike) then MTBs are not exercise at all.
This is why being a pro DH racer is the best sport of all because it’s great fun and can be done at high level by a talented couch potato.
Not sure why anyone would even mention driving a car when motorsports were mentioned.
Surely on a bike forum riding a bike would be a better comparison when motorsport were bought up.
Seems totally irrelevant to even mention driving a car.
talented couch potato.
I resemble this comment.
(I really do, my best race result was one where pedalling was banned, stainburn chainless challenge.)
Also aggressive? Really.
I dunno. It does feel a bit like ebike riders are taking offence when none is actually intended. I fully expect someone to jump down my throat for even suggesting this 😉
So, have we yet established that it takes zero fitness to ride a MTB at an uplift venue? I think that’s what everyone who hates ebikes is trying to say?
No, noone is saying that.
Not sure why anyone would even mention driving a car when motorsports were mentioned.
It's not strange at all to mention driving a car when motorsports are mentioned. It was perhaps strange to bring up motorsports in the first place.
It does feel a bit like ebike riders are taking offence when none is actually intended.
Perhaps because they don't get enough of a workout on a bike, they need to blow off steam some other way? :p
So, have we yet established that it takes zero fitness to ride a MTB at an uplift venue? I think that’s what everyone who hates ebikes is trying to say?
I did two days at BPW back in August, back to back, on my e-MTB.
Day one: E-MTB pass, six full runs and 3/4 smaller loops of the upper section red runs.
Day two: Uplift pass (on my e-mtb), eight runs, including two riding up (an early one and one at lunchtime) and six on the uplift bus.
I was more fatigued after day one, despite what I was expecting. The repeated climbs are not a rest section on the e-mtb like the queue and the bus journey are, i.e. it feels more like a long ride at a traditional trail centre, more constant effort through the whole day, with a really good choice of DH runs built in.
On another (not entirely unrelated) note, having only ever done BPW over the years on a standard MTB using the uplift, I was very surprised just how many people choose to ride there for the day and not use the uplift bus at all (both on e-MTBs and normal), many choosing shorter loops rather than top to bottom.
Chatting to people on the climb was also more sociable than on the bus.
These threads always go the same way.
Someone asks a reasonable question.
There's about a page or so of reasonable answers.
Then theres some eeb trolling.
Then someone claims ebikers are aggressive then posts something like this.
Perhaps because they don’t get enough of a workout on a bike, they need to blow off steam some other way? :p
🙄
BTW I don't class myself particularly as an ebiker.
I have a few bikes that all get ridden and one of them is an eeb.
I can't see what all the negative fuss is about really.
I agree SSStu, It’s now becoming very tiresome, and not unique to this forum.
I’m in the same boat as you with a few bikes in the quiver… although admittedly it’s the Eeeb I ride most often these days, particularly through the summer.
Well, it was pretty obviously tongue-in-cheek.
But really - there's not much e-bike trolling here. Noone's saying that ebikes provide no exercise. There are some comments that some ebike riders work less hard - but I can't see that that's really very controversial? While I'm sure some people do genuinely do as much, or more, than they would on a bike, I'm equally sure some people have them to make things easier for themselves.
Well, it was pretty obviously [s]tongue-in-cheek[/s] tiresome and predictable.
“Noone’s saying that ebikes provide no exercise. There are some comments that some ebike riders work less hard…”
That’s just your observer bias. On the thread, pretty much every time someone who actually rides an ebike dares to say that they haven’t lost fitness since owning one, someone has to leap up and say something like “but all ebikes wear too many clothes or, I’ve never seen an ebiker breathing hard, etc etc”. It’s boring - and wrong.
You know how drivers tend to treat cyclists on the road? That’s how too many MTBers like to treat eMTBers - like they have no right to be there, doing what they’re perfectly entitled to do. It’s the usual human tribalism but OMFG it is spectacularly tiresome.
As I said earlier, if singlespeed MTBs had been the norm, and then gears had been introduced, we’d be getting the same kind of behaviour. Would it make you all feel better if I got some stickers made that said “I’m a better human because I don’t like eMTBs”?
There are some comments that some ebike riders work less hard
And by Christ don’t the commenters love to really ram it home.
“Noone’s saying that ebikes provide no exercise. There are some comments that some ebike riders work less hard…”
That’s just your observer bias. On the thread, pretty much every time someone who actually rides an ebike dares to say that they haven’t lost fitness since owning one, someone has to leap up and say something like “but all ebikes wear too many clothes or, I’ve never seen an ebiker breathing hard, etc etc”. It’s boring – and wrong.
You know how drivers tend to treat cyclists on the road? That’s how too many MTBers like to treat eMTBers – like they have no right to be there, doing what they’re perfectly entitled to do. It’s the usual human tribalism but OMFG it is spectacularly tiresome.
As I said earlier, if singlespeed MTBs had been the norm, and then gears had been introduced, we’d be getting the same kind of behaviour. Would it make you all feel better if I got some stickers made that said “I’m a better human because I don’t like eMTBs”?
Do you think maybe you're over-reacting a little?
“Do you think maybe you’re over-reacting a little?”
I’m just stating facts because I’m bored of prejudiced opinions.
I’m just stating facts because I’m bored of prejudiced opinions.
Internet bike forums have been mostly folks saying "You're doing it wrong" from about 2001 as far as I can tell. If it's not e-MTB, it's risers or disc brakes, or 29ers or SS or fixed, or 1-by. Meanwhile in the real world, no-one gives a hoot what bike you're on or what gears it's got or anything else.
I think, in fact, I've had one argument with another biker; about the fact that I had 100mm Manitou forks on my XC bike in 1998 or something he thought I was mad, didn't need it, and it would rip the front of my bike off. Personally I think It made me into a riding God...so y'know...
That’s how too many MTBers like to treat eMTBers – like they have no right to be there
That's like, just your opinion, man...
(this is a joke, just in case)