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As I already posted, I'm getting rid of the FS as I massively prefer my HT.
If you prefer FS then ride one. If you prefer HT ride one. If you prefer rigid then ride one.
Bikes are meant to be fun so ride the one you enjoy.
Could argue that why have disc brakes when you need more skill to slow down with canti's and so on
Prefer HT for the majority of my riding. Only time a FS makes sense to me is if you are doing mostly downhill such as at Bikeparks.
I only have a hardtail at the minute, and it is just different and at the minute I am really enjoying it. Ride all the stuff I did on FS some of it slower some faster.
I will get another FS to go with the hardtail next year provided I can find the right one, short travel rear 110/120 ish, 140ish front and fairly slack 66 ? with short stays any suggestions ?
That's where I was going wrong.......I was using the HT for downhills that I use to fly on my FS.......I found the bike bouncing so much that I couldn't focus....everything was a blur.
It didn't help that my mate was flying down the hill on his FS and I was playing catch up....where as in the old days it's was the other way round
Maybe I should change my ride style.......or a buy a bmx like my first bike....Raleigh super tuff II burner
Yeah I'm that old!!
I did an Enduro on my HT,I must be #radtothemax 😉
Attitude, skill, fitness, bike. Probably in that order. Arguing about the type of bike is just kicking at the small things. For most of us, putting time into the first three will have by far the biggest overall effect on a ride. The confusion and argument comes from either not acknowledging that you need to ride each kind of bike differenty using diferent skills, or believing that the bike will make you faster/better.
whitestone - Member
I switched from FS to HT last year, I've only one MTB and most of my riding is away from trail centres so it suits me. If I rode mostly at trail centres then I'd have a FS but at the moment it would be a luxury for me.One thing that I think you really do need on a HT is a dropper seat post - I have a plain seat post in at the moment as the bike is in bikepacking mode and if you get on anything bumpy without putting the seat down it's like a bucking bronco With a dropper post it's not too bad, you need to chose different lines to those on FS and I certainly wouldn't want to go on a full-on DH course on it.
very much same here. I went from a 100mm Rock Lobster 853 and a 5 to a Soul with a reverb and 120mm forks. It does absolutely everything I want to do, it's more able than me 🙂
After 2 yrs I did miss the FS a bit so 3 months ago bought an Anthem SX, which I find very complimentary to the Soul. Different bikes, ride them different ways as Northwind and others say, enjoy them both.
For me it is not about skill, it is about using the bike best suited to the terrain. I happen to have a high level of skill as started riding BMX almost 40 years ago and have ridden ever since so that may be blurring things but not by much.
I like very light bikes and due to where I live a rigid single-speed is all I need and I would think the fastest choice (other than fitting nasty gears)
I am interested in going fast and do go after KOMs on Strava, many of them uphill or containing a few ups and downs.
+1 Scraggy. The 'speed' thing is neither here nor there really, unless you're chasing Strava times and absolutely must be quicker everywhere than everyone else (and we all know people like that!).
Tomato, tomato. One person's crutch or skill compensator (mine, freely admit to it!) is another's go-to bike. Now I've ridden stuff on the FS and not died I'd be happy to go back and ride it on the HT.
I've recently bought a slack titanium 29er hardtail after years and years of riding full suspension bikes. I'd be lying if I say I don't miss suspension, but as others in said in this thread: it's different, not better or worse. With full sussers my style was to just steamroller everything. With a hardtail you pay a heavier price with choosing the rougher lines, and it doesn't compensate for your mistakes like rear suspension does. I am a pedal masher and I am enjoying the efficiency and simplicity of being back on a HT until I eventually buy a new FS. If I could have both, I would.
With the big wheels, a 120mm fork, dropper post and relaxed geometry, it's great for 90% of my riding. I think unless we're talking about full-on DH gnar or serious racing, the biggest bottlenecks are always skills and fitness, not HT vs FS.
fasthaggis - MemberI did an Enduro on my HT,I must be #radtothemax
I did an inners night enduro on mine. #Brokenhandtothemax 😆
Sold my 26er FS at Xmas and brought a 29er HT, I've got do doubt that the HT has improved my riding no end, and that I'm now a fair bit quicker on the same trails than I was on the FS.
Its a different experience on both the ups and downs, but its made me so much smoother through rocky / rooty sections that I feel like a much more complete rider. Having to look further ahead and guide the bike rather than just bash through sections has really opened up my skill set.
I find myself wanting a FS quite regularly, but I think its more from a "oh look, shiny nice things" rather than a "need one to make myself faster" perspective.
I bought an fsr in the late nineties and it put me off riding for 15 years! I just love the directness of hard tails.
I think I'd be faster now on a fs as I live in a rocky area and even the fire-roads can be punishing on the ht.
However the key thing that's keeping me on an ht is the reduced maintenance, I couldn't afford the time or money to keep a fs running in peak condition
Had my fs for 2 years spent £16 on a fox top bushing and two top link bearings,so not as expensive as you might think.or maybe ive been lucky so far
Without going in to the "I've spent more/less than you" type of willy waving, the HT has been my only bike for 13 months and I've done just over 2800Km on it in that time. Replacements:
2 full sets brake pads
2 chains
1 chain ring (it's a 1x10 setup)
1 cassette
1 bottom bracket
So there's a cost but it's not as much as the cost of slobbing out on the couch 😆
As I already posted, I'm getting rid of the FS as I massively prefer my HT.If you prefer FS then ride one. If you prefer HT ride one. If you prefer rigid then ride one.
Bikes are meant to be fun so ride the one you enjoy.
Couldn't agree more. Although, funnily enough I'm thinking of selling the very bike (Solaris) that Normal Man loves because I've come to the conclusion that hardtails just aren't for me. I like to sit down and admire the scenery, I'll take all the skill compensation I can lay my hands on and I enjoy pottering around in the shed, so extra maintenance is a plus too 🙂
faustus - Member
Attitude, skill, fitness, bike. Probably in that order. Arguing about the type of bike is just kicking at the small things. For most of us, putting time into the first three will have by far the biggest overall effect on a ride. The confusion and argument comes from either not acknowledging that you need to ride each kind of bike differenty using diferent skills, or believing that the bike will make you faster/better.
^^This^^
I've had both and push comes to shove and I have to live with "Just the one MTB" it's a HT.
Easier to look after, easier to just pick up and go, admittedly slower for the "Average" rider down a hill but not impossible to get your kicks on, and a certain sense of achievement comes from cleaning stuff that many instinctively assign under the "FS only" category...
But then each to their own so long as you're out riding does it really matter what you're sat on?
Most of what I like to ride isn't about speed - in fact, I like steep, slow, nadgery stuff more than balls-out stuff.. So, for me, a hardtail is as good as anything.
In fact, a lot of the time, a rigid single speed is what I'd choose - I'm in Greece at the minute and even here I'm suffering from singlespeed withdrawal symptoms.
Greek crisis be damned - just bring me a Singular Hummingbird 8)
I like xc hardtails for clocking up miles and sprinting, that's their job to me.
I dont get the long travel HT thing though, tried it, geometry gets too screwed up, the fast pitches over the front.
Depends what you do/speed.
But definitely agree with others on here that a lot of people who dont get along with HTs sit down way too much. Too much sitting down in general really. How can yo expect to feel strong and not get tired on a DH or a sprint on flat when you spend 99% planted in that saddle? See it all the time, sit down, twiddle, twiddle, twiddle, stand up for the DH and have got that "i've pooed myself" stance.
I have always rode a fs and loved every minute of it. Jumps bumps the lot. I brought a HT 10 speed. As a easy to clean winter bike. I find I'm no way near as confident on it. that's the biggest issue for me. On a full sus I feel invincible!!!
Has anyone switched to hardtail and regretted it??
Yes! but then i put the rigid fork back on.
Nope. Since rediscovering hardtails last summer, my Rune has seen less and less use.
The Slackline that I feel in love with last year was brilliant but too small so it became a Switchback which I love even more. Not sure why I love the so much, especially after years of only having a full suss. Nine times out of ten, I grab the Stanton when heading out for a ride.
Not sure why I love the so much, especially after years of only having a full suss. Nine times out of ten, I grab the Stanton when heading out for a ride.
Same here, despite my Trance being the better bike in just about every measurable way I still seem to spend more time on the Ragley HT, it just feels more lively and fun out on the trails....the low maintenance and abuse it can take appeals too!
"But instead of improving, why not use the quickest bike you can actually ride"
Because your more of a passenger than a rider.....
Yes! Well kind of. Riding>20 years. Most of that on fs. Bought a cx. Love that off road. Bought a Fireline.. ti 29 ht (haha). It's good on the occasion but for Surrey Hills I pick my 26 fs every time. It's probably slower but I enjoy it more. I can ride more recklessly.
Don't understand the maintenance issue. Never been a problem with my Turner... Higher outlay I guess but...
I ride an Orange Five & Cotic Solaris. Love both bikes but could never say one was better than the other.
The FS is certainly easier, and surprisingly much quicker up hill which I put down to the increased traction. Overall I'd say the HT takes a fair bit of adjusting my riding style, searching out the smoother (and hence faster) lines and generally more thinking than simply blasting the Orange through whatever is ahead. It has been commented on by others in the group I ride with that I'm a lot faster on the FS too since getting the HT.
If I was pushed though I'd have to say I find the HT much more rewarding to ride. Also as someone who rides alone during the week a lot I quite like the fact that I can have as much fun, if not more by riding the HT slowly compared to the FS. Simply by concentrating on working the bike over the rough sections as apposed to just hammering through them.
I'm a big HT fan (chameleon with 140mm pikes in my case) but on anything rooty/steep I hit my limit after about an hour or so. It's a combination of the jarring and being out of the saddle for the whole time - basically joints and muscles are done in. For my riding short travel FS (e.g. scout or solo) is easily the best and most enjoyable compromise.
What a lot of bollocks on this thread. What should be glaringly obvious is that it depends on your local trails. Yes, there are a lot of people on this year's enduro gnarpoon at Swinley, a place that is probably more fun on an HT. However, my local trails in South Wales are rocky or rooty and the HT is slower, harder and less fun. The local descents on the FS are a high speed technical blast and as such exhilerating. On the HT they are slower, but it's the rocky climbs that are worst. The rocks are loose and big, and your back wheel gets bounced a lot. FS definitely faster.
And as for fs being boring - that's you, not the bike. Just speed up, I guarantee it will get interesting if you go fast enough! Just like HT you have to know how to ride it i.e. Fast.
What Molgrips said. Love my hardtail and on trail centre stuff it is the fastest, funnest, Less pedal strikes choice, but anything a bit mountainy the FS is better. (Except the annoying lumpy flat bits where a FS bike is less hard on the back).
Agree with the posts above.
Fs and make it work on red/black dh runs.
Aggressive ht for my local natural trails which are not so demanding, and the ht makes them feel more alive. I also ride the fs smoother from some time spent back on a ht.
Bmx is still the ultimate to master.
had a quick look through this, and havent seen it mentioned yet.... what about looks?
i love skinny steel, i love looking at a skinny dekerf, soulcraft, kona, i want to have sex with them, especially if rigid and ss 😀 that makes me want to ride them even tho theyre not as comfy. comfy? when was biking all about comfort? i want to pick mine up and think "wow thats light!! better hold onto it before it floats away"
i havent seen a FS in all the years ive been biking that i like the look of. linkages, shocks, fat tubes, busy busy busy with the usual suspects names emblazoned all over them.
nah. FS is comfier yep. faster downhill yep. fun, yeah im sure they are as youre blasting through stuff. but theyre ugly, so i dont want one 😉
Recently built up a HT, a Stanton Switchback, to compliment my Pivot Mach6 mainly for local trails which can be technical but have a mix of trail and concrete plus a lot of climbing in between.
I keep the Mach6 (running a 170mm Fox 36) for bike trips and when I ride the more gnaar stuff in HK, especially for DH shuttle days.
I don't think I could go HT only, but when I do ride it I really enjoy it as I know its limits(read mine) although I am having to dial it down a bit as I have already cracked one carbon rim by going a little too far on it!
edited again to ask- Are the HT die-hards coming from a BMXy background and the FS champions relatively 'new' to MTBing/dirt biking in general, or is there no real pattern? Genuine question, not a troll.
Nah came to mtb from bmx and much prefer a full suspension now. It's more the balanced feeling than anything else. I always find hardtail a bit bouncy and divey unless the fork is set up hard. I prefer to have both ends of the bike feeling the same. I probably prefer fully rigid to hardtail, at least both ends are doing the same thing.
That said I do often feel like going back to a hardtail for a bit, I used to ride my trailstar for everything until I got a full suspension and kinda wish I never tried it, ignorance is bliss and all that!
After about 2 years only riding my Cotic Bfe , they opened an uplift centre close to us and I started riding the downhill trails with my son. After a couple of visits I realised that the faster trails were no fun on my hardtail, so I built my Blur back up. The more technical trails are fine on my HT, but on the faster, more flowing DH trails the full suss is much more fun, because I get rattled about much less.
I still ride my HT about 95% of the time, but for example when we did a 4 day trip to the North Welsh trail centres, I was really glad to be able to take my full suss. For long days in the saddle, FS is much easier on my legs, and on DH trails it is much less tiring.
I've got my long travel HT as a low maintenance option for winter, or for when I want gears, but minimal cleaning faff on a muddy ride.
Around my local trails it's almost as fast as any long travel full sus.
No, I don't regret it, but if I had to have only one MTB it would be a modern long travel full sus.
I have deliberately avoided posting in this thread because each to their own and all that and as has been pointed out it depends somewhat on where you ride and how you like to ride. Having said that I love my hardtail and feel I need to speak up a little about why.
Most of the time when I go out for a ride I like to push my limits, I feel closer to doing this on a hardtail than on my full sus. When I'm on my full sus I do enjoy it, going faster etc but I don't get the same sense of achievement. A well sorted hardtial is like a basic tool that doesn't hide as many errors as a full sus so if I land a jump / drop / DH section smoothly then I know that it was more down to my bike handling skills (used loosely...) not the 6" rear travel. Going uphill is the same, you pick a line, use body english to work your way up the hill getting out of the saddle and moving around, not just sitting and spinning. The only real time I miss a full sus is on slow rocky ground where it's difficult to get enough speed up to get into a rhythm on a hardtail.
I don't really notice the unbalanced feeling that some have mentioned either, I have 140mm on the front and probably ride off the back a lot more than other riders and its not been an issue. Whats more of an issue for me is getting the timing right when hitting a jump on a full sus so the back end doesn't buck up but I'm sure this is my fault for not spending more time on it.
If I only had to have one bike it would undoubtedly be a hardtail.
Back to the original discussion about whether you'd regret going to a HT over a FS rather than the usual discussion about 'what's faster'.
I've been pondering exactly the same thing. I currently have 2 bikes, a 2013 Cube Stereo HPC 160 and an 2010 26" Orange Crush. I've been thinking for a fair few months about whether to take the plunge and frame swap the Cube to a Switchback and sell on the Orange leaving me with one MTB and one roadie.
I guess the only thing I can say is it depends on what you as a rider expect from your bike and the terrain you ride. Cannock Chase is my local and when I say that I don't mean I ride the trail centre loop endlessly. I've been riding there 20 years or so now so cover a lot of the 'off piste' stuff. For me, in my mind I realistically only need a hardtail these days, despite dabbling with Gravity Enduro racing. With a job change (longer commute) and a new baby time for racing has decreased dramatically as has the time to ride anywhere more exotic than the Chase.
I have ridden my HT around other trails such as Afan and yes, it was hard work, but fun all the same. I guess what I'm saying is that peoples circumstances/riding preferences/skill levels are all so different it's a very difficult thing to answer. Only thing stopping me is the financials, I'll end up spending more money (knowing me) where going to a single bike should be a saving (Probably won't get much more for the Cube frame then the cost of the Stanton) and I have a real attachment to my Orange now, I can't let it go lol! On the upside, it means that I won't be paranoid about frame bearings getting worn out and ruining parts of the frame (that's a thing that's happened to me recently)
I can see me regretting it if I finally get a chance to do an uplift day or get to the Alps but I think those opportunities are few and far between.
If I had to have only one MTB, it'd be tough. For 7 years I only had FS, but then I realised I missed the longer rides I can do down here if I include lots of road - and the FSes are a bit shite on road.
I'd probably be happy with different bikes for different reasons. Currently I'm thinking I could live with my El Mar for one bike but it would need front suspension. Or something exactly the same geometry but with a small amount of rear travel.
Steve slow your rebound
I can see me regretting it if I finally get a chance to do an uplift day or get to the Alps but I think those opportunities are few and far between.
You can always hire a bike for those odd occasions.
Over the last 20 years I've regularly switched between a full sus and a hard tail every 5 years or so.
This year - I have both...
Went HT for the last couple of years, and it was ok, but just got another FS (well in june). After the inital shock of going back, there no way [b]I'd[/b] swap back to a HT while the trails are dry. I'm quicker up and down on the FS, though only by seconds going by the dreaded strava. For me the HT will only come out once the weather turns or if the FS breaks.
Each to there own, as it's only a bike and if your having fun, what does it matter what anyone else thinks.