[Closed] Has anyone switched to hardtail and regretted it??

I have a Spearfish short travel FS29 and a Charge Cooker HT29 at the moment. I rode the Charge on trails for the first time in ages last week... it was HORRIFIC !!! it was fine in winter, worked well and did a job, performed a function. But on hard try dusty trails it's horrendous on a HT.

I won't be riding it again outdoors until Nov.

There's no way I can say this without sounding like a *, so I might as well just go full *. You're doing it wrong, you can't ride a HT like a full suss and expect it to work. But once you take on the job that the rear suspension usually does it all changes.

as a guy who only has one offroad bike (bfe with 160 slants), i agree wholeheartedly with northwind.
i've never even owned a full suss......
😯

Northwind - Member

There's no way I can say this without sounding like a *, so I might as well just go full *. You're doing it wrong, you can't ride a HT like a full suss and expect it to work. But once you take on the job that the rear suspension usually does it all changes.

Nah, you just kid yourself it does because you've bought it so have to pretend even to yourself that it's GREAT, it's faster and it's more in touch with the trails.

the reality is, it's fractionally quicker up hill... more slower than that gain downhill though. It's arse battering and clunky and you only feel in touch with the trail because your saddle is trying to penetrate you 4000 times per ride.

What Northwind said.

You ride differently on a HT compared to FS. I have both and like them equally, they are just different and need different styles to get the most out of them.

At Mayhem I did 3 laps on the FS then switched to HT for another 5 - Both were brilliant.

you only feel in touch with the trail because your saddle is trying to penetrate you 4000 times per ride.

You're sitting down too much 😀

<full *> Why are you sitting down? </full *>

I've bought and sold a bunch of hts, if I didn't like this one I'd sell it too, it makes but one more.

I like the "trail chatter" of a hardtail.

You're sitting down too much

So it's a weight saving thing.. you remove the saddle and seatpost to make it lighter 🙂

I didn't know... no-one told me that 🙂

I've gone HT after years as a FS only rider.
I really like it. I'll probably get another FS in the future but it'll be a burlier bike for bike parks. The HT does a great job for trail riding, I think I'm as quick up and down on tamer stuff like trail centres but I do lose speed on the flats.
Being relatively heavy, I have damaged some rims though (even at 35psi).

Going to agree with Northwind on this one.

Love riding my hardtail and frequently choose it over my big bouncy 160mm fs bike. Surprisingly it's no slower than the Enduro until things get really rough and actually quicker on some descents.

If your saddle is penetrating you then you're deffo doing something wrong!.

the reality is, [b]FOR ME[/b] it's fractionally quicker up hill... more slower than that gain downhill though.

FTFY

FTFY

Absolutely. I can only comment for myself.

On the HT I was gaining 1-2s on the uphills, but losing 15s on the downs compared to the Spearfish.

Genuine question - How many times have you been out on the hardtail?

Might be worth giving it a few rides and see how you get on, could also be down to setup or even something as simple as tyre choice/pressures.

You need to try fully rigid if you really want to sense what is happening underneath you. I tried front suspension and found it annoying and pointless so can't see me liking FS much.

Have to add I do live in an area of easy terrain and have done for 15 years so may feel differently if elsewhere.

Me too

When 29ers first came out I went for a hardtail and liked the 'connected to the back wheel' speed but hated getting bashed about and still have suspension to maintain.

So now have a full suss 29er and a full rigid 29er (and a full fatbike). All of which are ace in their place. Hardtails are just a pointless compromise, as is 650b and +size tyres.

Rigid is good too. The nice thing is, a hardtail is just a rigid with suspension so it takes about 10 minutes to turn one into the other. Free bike!

Am having something of a HT renaissance at the moment I can't stop riding it.

There's nothing wrong with either FS but they both feel like slushboxes after riding the HT for a while

Again depends where you ride but FS or HT are fun in their own ways. If I had to have one bike it would be FS

Has anyone switched to hardtail and regretted it??

Not in my case

Fair enough. I reckon most people who use full suspension [u]either[/u] for increased comfort [u]or[/u] for increased speed will probably have (at least sometimes) regretted switching to a hardtail.

I don't think many hardtail devotees would argue that they're smoother, comfier and quicker - the attraction lies elsewhere.

🙂

I switched from FS to HT last year, I've only one MTB and most of my riding is away from trail centres so it suits me. If I rode mostly at trail centres then I'd have a FS but at the moment it would be a luxury for me.

One thing that I think you really do need on a HT is a dropper seat post - I have a plain seat post in at the moment as the bike is in bikepacking mode and if you get on anything bumpy without putting the seat down it's like a bucking bronco 😯 With a dropper post it's not too bad, you need to chose different lines to those on FS and I certainly wouldn't want to go on a full-on DH course on it.

I've ditched the full suspension and gone hardtail only. It's slower on certain terrains for sure but it feels more fun.

Less maintenance too. I'm probably going to have it as my only MTB as the SS doesn't really get a look in now so will probably move that on.

Going to agree with Northwind on this one.

+1

Fair enough. I reckon most people who use full suspension either for increased comfort or for increased speed will probably have (at least sometimes) regretted switching to a hardtail.

I don't think many hardtail devotees would argue that they're smoother, comfier and quicker - the attraction lies elsewhere.

+1 too.

In recent history I've ridden FS, hardtail, rigid and a Fat bike.

FS bikes are more comfortable, faster, have more grip and don't throw you off as often. But that's it, they're the best tool for the job, they make everything as easy as it can be, given suitable trails that can still be damn hard, but it's easier than doing it on a rigid bike.

Now in reality the fixed constant in all our riding is the trails, not the bike (unless you have one bike and travel a lot). So most of the time I chose to ride whatever gives me a challenge and they all do something different.

FS - go faster, pick straighter lines regardless of roughness
HT - go smoother, pick out lines with fewer obstacles.
SS - maintain speed
Rigid - pick the smoothest line possible whilst looking for grip
Fat bike - like the rigid, but with the grip of the FS bike.

So I can ride the same corner/section 5 times on 5 bikes and find 5 different challenges.

HT's will probably not be faster, easier or anything else measurably better than a FS, but sometimes the job at hand is making the trail more difficult, and that's where a HT is the right tool.

And the lack of maintenance on a rigid SS is not something to be sniffed at over a winter! Being able to ride several times a week and not even lube the chain (thankyou putoline wax) is a godsend for getting out when motivation is marginal.

Sold FS because it was boring, now have 2 HTs both great fun. One endure spec and the other fun/play bike.

HT is faster up the climbs and slower down them, which is great as the inevitable crash seems to be of less time off work type. Found I was letting the FS over compensate for my lack of skillz - usually a bit too late.

It depends on the trail shirley?
A FS on the Verderers at FOD is not the best (or fastest) tool for the job. Likewise other smooth (nuuskool) trails like Penhydd.

HTs (for me) are more engaging to ride and therefore more 'fun'.

FS (for me) are steamrollers which can be fun, to a degree, but removes some of the interaction. It's definitely a bravery/skill compensator [u]for me[/u].

For going faster downhill in an effort to not be last I'd choose the FS, but for pottering about and trail riding, probably even if we went to a trail centre, I'd take the HT- no question.

I'd sell the FS if I needed to but you'd need to prise the HT from my cold, dead hands 😆

edit- I'd probably sell the FS over the rigid jump bike too.

edited again to ask- Are the HT die-hards coming from a BMXy background and the FS champions relatively 'new' to MTBing/dirt biking in general, or is there no real pattern? Genuine question, not a troll.

Found I was letting the FS over compensate for my lack of skillz

I wasn't making any progression in my riding on the FS, now feel like I've made a massive step up. The chuckability of my HT has made a big difference and being able to feel what the rear tyre is doing

@kayla1

I've never ridden a BMX. MTB ownership has gone: FS, HT, FS, HT.

I wouldn't say I'm an HT die-hard though, it's just more practical for the majority of riding that I do. If I did get a FS (note to wife - no intention just a rhetorical musing) then I wouldn't get rid of the HT.

I sold my Solaris on the grounds I was 'over' HTs. Then last week I bought a 2nd hand Trek Stache as a 'parts bin build'. First 10 minutes I couldn't believe how rooty the FoD seemed to be compared to my last ride on a 160mm FS.. 10 more minutes after that, It was fun in a different way.

Seems faster. It isn't but it feels closer to disaster which is a good thing (assuming disaster doesn't strike), it does break you out of the laziness of not picking a line and it's definitely going to climb better (esp if you have 34-36 and a 29er so you have to get out of the saddle on anything a bit steep)

Amusingly checking the devil that is Strava, I wasn't that much slower on most of the descents. Which is clearly a reflection on me not using the big FS properly.

Won't ride it all the time, will ride it more than I thought. Hardtails are for life, not just winter 😉

I love my Hardtail (BFe), in fact my full suss sits gathering dust in the garage. I wouldn't ride anything else, (pfnarr!) and can keep up with any full suss on the trails.
They are differnet rides, as has been said before. You have to read the trail ahead more often and pick your lines, but it takes time to adjust.
Keep at it!!

I'm going to sell my FS due to lack of use. My 29er ht is my go to bike.

Are the HT die-hards coming from a BMXy background and the FS champions relatively 'new' to MTBing/dirt biking in general, or is there no real pattern? Genuine question, not a troll.

Nope, got into MTB around 99/2000, after the initial 90's boom, just as stuff like real working suspension forks started to appear. You'd have to be looking back to people in their 40's now to find people that were around for the BMX boom! So I started on hard tails as that's all there was unless you were spending big money. I'd say affordable, well built, pedalable, trail FS bikes started a few years later with stuff like the Specialized Enduro monocoque, Giant VT, Cannondale Jeckyl etc. Those were the first bikes you could take on a group ride and beat other riders to the top and bottom of the hill.

I tried FS, I liked it, I'd have another, but the financial and time commitment of keeping one in top fettle was a PITA. I'd rather ride a rigid bike and never miss a ride. I'll probably try again in another year or so.

TINAS- I'm 40 and started on a BMX BITD, then 'progressed' onto MTBs. I've just got back into BMX as well, albeit badly and more afraid than I was when I was young and indestructible!

I was wondering how many others' bicycle histories are similar to my own- do BMX boom kids err towards HTs and do younger MTB boom kids err towards FS?

Looking at the replies to this post i cant help but think the answer lies in a short travel full susser for general use.but that could be because thats where ive ended up after years of riding various hardtail and full susser combos.main reason ive settled on a fs is that after a 40 odd mile ride i'm not as tired

I have both but only the HT is built up currently.

It's a 140mm forked steel HT with 26 inch wheels and is infinitely more fun than the FS I have.
Obviously the FS is faster for the type of riding I enjoy doing (gravity based) so I tend to use if for racing, when I took the HT to a local DH race the other day I had a hard time but for places like BPW, FoD etc it's been the HT every time so far in 2015.

If I had to sell a bike and have only one then I'd keep the HT.

As Northwind said, there is a different way of riding them, you should be up on the pedals far more.
I was at Swinley the other evening and line after line of FS riders headed out onto the trails sat down and being nicely cushioned by their rear suspension, I saw riders standing for the obviously technical stuff but otherwise people tend to sit on their FS and spin along....by far the fastest guy I saw was on a short travel HT and he was up out of the saddle all the time, he was flying!....most people (myself included) can't ride like that for extended periods as they don't have the leg strength to stay stood up for the entire ride....I've got slightly better since buying a cheap BMX on eBay and taking that onto the trails, with the seat so low it's impossible to sit and spin, first few times it was agony on the legs but I'm getting better.

Watch the Chromag video of their employee Jinya Nishiwaki riding Whistler on a HT to see how it should be done.

he was flying!....most people (myself included) can't ride like that for extended periods as they don't have the leg strength to stay stood up for the entire ride

I think in that case it's fair to say he'd be quick on a short travel FS too....

I'm sure we all know a super fast HT whippet who's quicker on things than all the FS merchants... but that's mostly just because they're quicker... not because the HT is quicker.

what I'm saying is... just because there's people out there who'd kick us all round the trails on their HTs, like the COTIC video etc, doesn't mean that's the right choice of bike.

he was flying!....most people (myself included) can't ride like that for extended periods as they don't have the leg strength to stay stood up for the entire ride

Agreed, my fastest laps of Swinely were all on rigid SS bikes, it's not that that's the fastest bike, but it does force you to be out of the saddle much more of the time and if you're up and pedalling you may as well be working the bike.

Doing a fast lap on that bike and then doing a similar speed lap on a FS bike is chalk and cheese though. The same time on a FS was hard on the legs but just tiring, doing it on a rigid SS was just as hard on the legs but left me wrecked!

I tried going back to a hardtail and didn't really enjoy it. I much prefer FS. I progress way more on it as I have more confidence to try new things. Just more fun on every trail for me. I mostly don't like the unbalanced feeling of a hardtail, I'd rather ride fully rigid I think. I ride mostly DH/FR as well so a hardtail isn't really the best tool for the job.

Its quite interesting that many of these bike forums about performance of different bikes and wheel sizes etc all seem to end up with "speed "being mentioned,who actually worries about a second here and there on a day out in the hills?what percentage of riders actually race competitively?everytime you go on a ride with company you end up waiting around for someone to catch up anyway

A few folk saying it's faster downhill on FS than HT. While I accept that FS [i]can[/i] be faster downhill (smoother ride, increased traction, etc.), I'm going to say that in this case, no-one's good enough to reach the limits of their HT. You're faster on the FS because you suck and it compensates for your mistakes. Most people aren't good enough to be under-biked on a HT. I guess what I'm saying is that HTs are great but they demand more of your abilities.

asdfhjkl - Member

A few folk saying it's faster downhill on FS than HT. While I accept that FS can be faster downhill (smoother ride, increased traction, etc.), I'm going to say that in this case, no-one's good enough to reach the limits of their HT. You're faster on the FS because you suck and it compensates for your mistakes. Most people aren't good enough to be under-biked on a HT. I guess what I'm saying is that HTs are great but they demand more of your abilities.

We all suck, that's the world we live in.

But instead of improving, why not use the quickest bike you can actually ride instead of trying to ride outside your limits and crashing ?

All this stuff about skill compensators is probably bollocks as well. I can ride all the same stuff on a hardtail as I do on a full sus, it's just more fun on the latter.