[Closed] Guardian article today on Herne Hill velodrome

They're not - they're moving it to Manchester because they've had a series of years of bad weather and combined with John Major's lack of commitment to the cycling community the facilities are falling down.

I think it's a real shame that the famous Good Friday is moving to Manchester but I can understand why Graham had to do it, one more wet year would have bankrupted the SCCU.

However I think it is very important that we save the velodrome, I was racing there on Sunday and there was a great mix of ages and abilities of both sexes. Plenty more champions will come from HHV if it is kept on. See [url= http://www.savethevelodrome.com/ ]here[/url] for what can be done to help.

I suppose that's fair enough.

I never realised it was a full-on national event - I thought it was just a London thing. Maybe it's because Bradley Wiggins was always the star of the show and he's a Londoner. It was also a big cultural thing for the messengers/London fixed gear riders/general bike shop staff population in London, not just a track event! I wonder if Manchester has anything like the same level of interest in track/bikes as London. It might do, I don't know. You do see a lot of mtbers out at weekends I spose.

In a way it's a good thing as it's a kick up the rear for track in London, not that we need it anymore with the Olympics etc.

I'm going to see about getting involved in that campaign, thanks.

there are many more issues affecting the velodrome than john Major's lack of commitment to the cycling community.
the main one being the lease from Dulwich estates not being long enough to ensure the upkeep of the facilities.

What needs to be done is applying pressure to John Major and the trustees of the Dulwich Estate as there will be no funding at all without a long term lease or commitment to such from Dulwich. John Major certainly was the figurehead of the Dulwich Estate or was last time there was a campaign to save Herne Hill track.

[i]In a way it's a good thing as it's a kick up the rear for track in London, not that we need it anymore with the Olympics etc.[/i]

It IS needed, more than ever!
Manchester is one of the busiest velodromes in Europe if not the world, trying to get on for some of the winter training sessions requires booking 2 months in advance! Best thing about HH is that it's easier for beginners cos it's shallower bankings and you can fit far more people on it. As leggyblonde says, Saturday sessions there in summer are rammed and it's great to see. Can't just say "oh it's served it's purpose, London Olympic one will be open soon", HH needs some serious investment in its future.

I too think it's sad that Good Friday is moving to Manchester (although I can see the reasoning behind it) but I'd hate to see it turn into "just another track meet". Good Friday IS Herne Hill.

Yeh - to be honest the outdoorsy aspect of it was part of its appeal, I always thought. I vaguely remember there was a barbecue also? Good luck holding that in an indoor venue.

Going to see about getting involved in this.

To add to what's already been said, South and South West London have strong cycling communities, and Herne Hill is easily accessible, unlike the Olympics Velodrome.

the existence of the olympic velodrome is not a valid excuse to close HH, herne hill is shallower and longer so ideal for training and for beginners. it's used by schools and locals and by those from further afield in the s/e. in the winter it's used for cross racing.
it's an in demand resource that shouldn't be taken away.

In Oz, people who are interested in sport get organised, raise their own money, and set up their own facilities.

My local town in Oz has a velodrome owned by the club.

Why can't that be done in the UK? Especially in a place like London with potentially a huge subscriber base.

No point in running to the nanny state because it looks more like the big bad wolf now 🙂

I think it's because most people give moral support to facilities like these, as it's the least they can do, and most people only do the least they can do! As opposed to, for example, putting up some cash.

Not that I can talk.

Getting the land for it is probably a fair bit cheaper in Oz to, might also have more sensible H&S/insurance legislation to keep costs down.

In Oz, people who are interested in sport get organised, raise their own money, and set up their own facilities.

My local town in Oz has a velodrome owned by the club.

Why can't that be done in the UK? Especially in a place like London with potentially a huge subscriber base.

Big difference between cost of land in a town in Oz (probably next to nothing), or even field / open land outside London, and land in South East London (cost you tens of millions of pounds to buy that big a chunk of land).

Joe

er there is a private (club owned one) someone will probably come along and tell us the name...

EDIT: halesowen.

ask about Harlow Velodrome..........

It costs about £1m to build an external 250m track + probably 2 or 3 times that for the land costs in the South East, not many small clubs can raise that kind of money.

Not talking about building a new track though, it's renovation of the existing 450m concrete track and the facilities. At the moment there is no grandstand, it's too dilapidated to use, no changing facilities, showers, shelter from bad weather, lighting, cafe etc, it is literally just a track and a bunch of storage containers yet it's still used all the time. It's just not suitable anymore for running National meetings like Good Friday (especially given the costs that have been incurred as a result of bad weather cancellations the last couple of years).

It has such HUGE potential that venue - a climbing wall, gym, little off-road circuit for kids (already exists), a renovated grandstand with a little spares/repairs shop and a cafe. Well run, that place could make a fortune and provide lasting development facilities/ a safe off-road training area for kids etc.

You're doing it a bit of a dis-service there C-L, there is a cafe and there is shelter and changing! Admittedly they're not fantatastic, but they do keep you fed and dry.

Also, the existing offroad course is more than " a little course for kids". HHV hosts arguably the biggest CX event of the year in the UK!

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I would love a permanent facility with proper investment, but it will never happen whilst Dulwich Estates try and fiddle out of the restrictive convenant that insists the land is used for cycling.

leggyblonde - I'll drop you a line about this as I may be able to help with this. Can I get your email via Az?

aP, send it to philip@t...

I've only got his sister's email. Can pass it on I don't mind as long as Anna doesn't either.

I would love a permanent facility with proper investment, but it will never happen whilst Dulwich Estates try and fiddle out of the restrictive convenant that insists the land is used for cycling.

from the last dispute...

Dulwich Estate has a commitment to provide 'leisure facilities' on the land. One man's leisure is another man's Gala Bingo or Burger King.

Worse still, the prime property land could legitimately see private housing built on the site of the velodrome, with a private gym for residents use only, and still not breach the conditions of the lease.

Remember also the neighbours, some of them are, how can I put it - "highly connected?"

Dunt Maggie Thatchler live down that way somewhere?

Are you sending me this email or not?

[i]but it will never happen whilst Dulwich Estates try and fiddle out of the restrictive convenant that insists the land is used for cycling. [/i]

I wonder how much they (and their 'partners') have spent on lawyers so far?

"In Oz, people who are interested in sport get organised, raise their own money, and set up their own facilities. My local town in Oz has a velodrome owned by the club. Why can't that be done in the UK?"

We do have this in the UK!

Such groups have set up such communal facilities all over the country. A long time back large numbers of people got together and contributed financially and also elected committee members who would oversee the creation and maintenance of the facilities that people wanted. This process brought about many hundreds if not thousands of sports fields, tennis courts, swimming pools and sports centres. This process is called The Local Council. All districts in the UK have these councils. On the whole, its been very successful over the many decades its been running.

Unfortunately, although the population choose the committee members and provide all the money for the running of the Local Council via taxes, some people seem to believe that using a communal service the general population have actually paid for (and paying is no longer an optional subscription!) is viewed as 'relying on the nanny state' or as 'being given handouts' they have not contributed to.

If you pay for 6 cans of beans at the supermarket - do you then view them as a free handout by a charity? I think not.

Olympics Velodrome.

having had a recent tour around the new velodrome site it is going to be awesome and already has all the bits in place to allow use after the games...

much rather in the future use an indoor wooden track than an outdoor concrete job...

much rather in the future use an indoor wooden track than an outdoor concrete job...

That may be true, but if you live south of the Thames how viable will the new velodrome be for regular use. When I lived in Croydon I could easily cycle to Herne Hill. I've cycled to Beastway (location of new Olympic cycling venue I believe) in the past and it was not a pleasant experience and a long way!

"Midnighthour - Member
[i]"In Oz, people who are interested in sport get organised, raise their own money, and set up their own facilities. My local town in Oz has a velodrome owned by the club. Why can't that be done in the UK?"[/i]

We do have this in the UK!"

Well, it ain't working, is it?

That may be true, but if you live south of the Thames how viable will the new velodrome be for regular use. When I lived in Croydon I could easily cycle to Herne Hill. I've cycled to Beastway (location of new Olympic cycling venue I believe) in the past and it was not a pleasant experience and a long way!

The Lee Valley will be unrecognisable post games - it is unrecognisable now!

The new Velodrome is not at the location of the Beastway which is Hog Hill / Hainault..worked on that project.. but within the new Olympic Park itself...

First timbers laid:

http://road.cc/content/news/24181-first-timbers-laid-london-2012-velodrome

Nice webcam here:

http://www.london2012.com/webcams/velodrome-internal.php

as for the location:

http://tinyurl.com/3857c9z

To the west of temple mill lane and to the south of the A12

you could take the Overground from Croydon up to the Velodrome

much rather in the future use an indoor wooden track than an outdoor concrete job...

Even in the middle of summer? I'd prefer to top up my tan surrounded by green than struggle to breathe riding in a humid box!
I hope to have the option of using both, they will both serve different but important purposes.

No emails received BTW

I'd prefer to top up my tan

oi! 😀

Even in the middle of summer? I'd prefer to top up my tan surrounded by green than struggle to breathe riding in a humid box!
I hope to have the option of using both, they will both serve different but important purposes.

Yep will be HOT in the new drome - upper seating area will be at up to 37degs+..

the building does have open sides to allow airflow through plus additional ventilation and in club use they will not use the artificial lighting (reducing heat) , but the natural roof lights (these will be covered for the games). for the games the want to make a fast track hence high temps to lower air density.

The new Velodrome is not at the location of the Beastway which is Hog Hill / Hainault.

It is; it's roughly where the original Beastway events were held, before the cycle circuit closed down and the event moved to Hainault. I've raced at the original Beastway.

And do you know why it's called 'Beastway'? Because it was held at the Eastway cycle circuit, which funnily enough is actually visible in the aerial shot in the map you linked to, Rootes1. Shows how old the Google map is!

As for the venue; it's still slap bang in the middle of some of the most deprived areas in Britain. Bordered by Tower Hamlets, Hackney and Newham. My concern is that once the local scrotes learn that people are taking very expensive bicycles to the velodrome, crime could become a bit of an issue. Indeed, I've heard of people being robbed along the canal, on their way to and from Beastway.

No emails received BTW

I don't know LB, I don't know. I've received nowt from aP.